Re: axp-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 12

2009/1/16 <axp-list-request redhat com>

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
(Marco Benton)
2. Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
(M?ns Rullg?rd)
3. Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
(Jeff Donsbach)
4. Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
(Marc Schlensog)
5. Re: Secondary architectures and marketing (Oliver Falk)
6. Re: Secondary architectures and marketing (Oliver Falk)
7. Re: Secondary architectures and marketing (Matt Turner)
8. Re: Secondary architectures and marketing (Dialup Jon Norstog)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:35:12 -0500
From: Marco Benton <marco xssnet com>
Subject: Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
To: Axp-list redhat com
Message-ID: <0u5246-423 ln1 web1 xssnet com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Måns Rullgård wrote:
> "Matt Turner" <mattst88 gmail com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Tobias Klausmann <klausman gentoo org> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> (apologies for incoherent rambling, I have a nasty case of flu and
>>> am not at my best, intelligence-wise)
>>>
>>> I don'treally like forums. Their overhead for posting/reading and
>>> the usually abysmal user interface keep me from wanting to use
>>> them. That said, if they're indexable properly, you can search
>>> using google. Still wouldn't want to write or regularly read
>>> there.
>>>
>>> As for mailing lists: love 'em if they have a properly indexed
>>> archive. This mailing list here, however, has a disadvantage: its
>>> domain name. I can imagine people not subscribing because it is
>>> Fedora/RHEL only.
>>>
>>> c.o.l.a has a disadvantage: some people don't even know News and
>>> quite of the geeks I know don't like News because they think it's
>>> all flames and spam (and let's face it: there *are* groups which
>>> fit that description).
>>>
>>> That'show I see it.
>> So it looks like most people who use mailing lists would rather use
>> existing mailing lists than forums. Surprise. :)
>>
>> I wonder how many people I'm not reaching?
>>
>> Maybe the thing to do is to put more emphasis on comp.os.linux.alpha?
>> It can be read as a mailing list and also as a forum (through Google
>> Groups). How would this be?
>
> If that keeps the web aficionados happy, fine by me as long it doesn't
> result in a sudden influx of badly formatted (top-posts, html, etc)
> messages.
>

Allowing l-users from Google Groups would do just that!

top-posting, HTML, etc and total n00b questions.

But i do prefer newsgroups tho. And an occasional flame war. ;-)

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:03:04 +0000
From: M?ns Rullg?rd <mans mansr com>
Subject: Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
To: Axp-list redhat com
Message-ID: <yw1x4p0132zb fsf thrashbarg mansr com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Marco Benton <marco xssnet com> writes:

> Måns Rullgård wrote:
>> "Matt Turner" <mattst88 gmail com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Tobias Klausmann <klausman gentoo org> wrote:
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> (apologies for incoherent rambling, I have a nasty case of flu and
>>>> am not at my best, intelligence-wise)
>>>>
>>>> I don'treally like forums. Their overhead for posting/reading and
>>>> the usually abysmal user interface keep me from wanting to use
>>>> them. That said, if they're indexable properly, you can search
>>>> using google. Still wouldn't want to write or regularly read
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> As for mailing lists: love 'em if they have a properly indexed
>>>> archive. This mailing list here, however, has a disadvantage: its
>>>> domain name. I can imagine people not subscribing because it is
>>>> Fedora/RHEL only.
>>>>
>>>> c.o.l.a has a disadvantage: some people don't even know News and
>>>> quite of the geeks I know don't like News because they think it's
>>>> all flames and spam (and let's face it: there *are* groups which
>>>> fit that description).
>>>>
>>>> That'show I see it.
>>> So it looks like most people who use mailing lists would rather use
>>> existing mailing lists than forums. Surprise. :)
>>>
>>> I wonder how many people I'm not reaching?
>>>
>>> Maybe the thing to do is to put more emphasis on comp.os.linux.alpha?
>>> It can be read as a mailing list and also as a forum (through Google
>>> Groups). How would this be?
>> If that keeps the web aficionados happy, fine by me as long it
>> doesn't
>> result in a sudden influx of badly formatted (top-posts, html, etc)
>> messages.
>>
>
> Allowing l-users from Google Groups would do just that!
>
> top-posting, HTML, etc and total n00b questions.

Well, posting through google to cola is already possible. Hopefully
those still using Alphas have more of a clue than the average web
user.

--
Måns Rullgård
mans mansr com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:08:01 -0500
From: Jeff Donsbach <jeff donsbach hp com>
Subject: Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
To: Linux on Alpha processors <axp-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1231992481 20758 2 camel donsbach-laptop>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 21:24 +0000, Matt Turner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Among other things, I've been tossing the idea of a Forum for AlphaLinux.org.
>
> It would provide a central location for Alpha discussion.
>
> Would you use it?
>
> Ideas and suggestions requested.

+1.

You should post this question to the Debian Alpha list and the Gentoo
Alpha list too (or "alternate architecture" forum on the Gentoo
website). I agree that with dwindling numbers, the remaining Alpha users
and devs need to collaborate more and stick together.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:00:07 +0100
From: Marc Schlensog <mschlens redhat com>
Subject: Re: Trying to gauge usage of a possible AlphaLinux.org Forum
To: axp-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20090115100007 6b312a44 redhat com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:54:51 -0700
Maurice Hilarius <maurice harddata com> wrote:

> Matt Turner wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > So it looks like most people who use mailing lists would rather use
> > existing mailing lists than forums. Surprise. :)
> >
> > I wonder how many people I'm not reaching?
> >
> > Maybe the thing to do is to put more emphasis on
> > comp.os.linux.alpha? It can be read as a mailing list and also as a
> > forum (through Google Groups). How would this be?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> OK.
> But:
> I am still wondering what we would gain from this??

Try to think out of the box. Once people see it's a Red Hat list, they
might get the impression that the discussion is Red Hat or - at the
most - Fedora related. The incentive to sign up might be pretty low for
people interested in other distros than Fedora.
Same holds true, of course, for other means of communication that /seem/
to favor one particular distro.
The prime objective at the moment should be to get the few
remaining users and developers of Linux/axp (and possibly other Alpha
based Open Source projects) to one place which isn't dependent on one
particular distro.
That's why alphalinux.org is a good starting point, that's why c.o.l.a.
isn't the worst suggestion either.

b.r.,

Marc

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:03:18 +0100
From: Oliver Falk <oliver linux-kernel at>
Subject: Re: Secondary architectures and marketing
To: Linux on Alpha processors <axp-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <496F5036 3040204 linux-kernel at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Alan Young <ayoung teleport com> wrote:
>> Alex Deucher wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Oliver Falk <oliver linux-kernel at>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Matt Turner wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:59 AM, Oliver Falk <oliver linux-kernel at>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> [ ... ]
>>>>> After working on the problem, Jay independently came to the exact
>>>>> solution Gentoo arrived at before. This, by definition, is duplication
>>>>> of effort.
>>>> Yes. That's duplication of effort. And as Jay said. Why did that happen?
>>>> Because of the lack of communication. See my other mail. A common axp
>>>> patches store would help a lot in this case.
>>> What about something like patchwork?
>>> http://patchwork.kernel.org/
>>>
>>> If everyone send patches to the list, at least they'd end up in one place.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>> Is patchwork limited to vger lists (linux-alpha)? Or can it track non-vger
>> lists? If it could monitor the various lists (linux-alpha, redhat-axp,
>> gentoo-alpha, debian-alpha, etc.) that could help to bring patches together.
>
> I don't know off hand, but I suspect just vger lists. One could do
> something similar for alpha lists.

http://ozlabs.org/~jk/projects/patchwork/

We could run this somewhere for *us* (various distro alpha m/l) + axp-list.

What you think?

-of

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:07:21 +0100
From: Oliver Falk <oliver linux-kernel at>
Subject: Re: Secondary architectures and marketing
To: Linux on Alpha processors <axp-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <496F5129 8080902 linux-kernel at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Matt Turner wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Matt. You ask me to use another distribution. Why don't you use another
>> distribution?
>>
>
> First, thanks for the response.
>
> While I think the one-distribution idea is the ideal solution, I guess
> it's not really feasible.
>
> To answer your final question of why don't I switch distributions: as
> I told someone on IRC last night, if the roles were reversed and
> Fedora was the well established distribution and Gentoo was just
> starting, I could just as easily be suggesting people switch _to_
> Fedora _from_ Gentoo.

You're always thinking Fedora Alpha isn't 'so well'. I'm wondering. Or
is this just my interpretation? Or do you mean the userbase?

-of

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:19:07 -0500
From: "Matt Turner" <mattst88 gmail com>
Subject: Re: Secondary architectures and marketing
To: "Linux on Alpha processors" <axp-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
<b4198de60901150819j19ce4e75x82cf7a3d76169e68 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Oliver Falk <oliver linux-kernel at> wrote:
> You're always thinking Fedora Alpha isn't 'so well'. I'm wondering. Or is
> this just my interpretation?

Well, yes. This is exactly how it was described to me -- not enough
man-power to make it more than just experimental.

I could be flat wrong though.

> Or do you mean the userbase?

I don't really know of any userbase. Of all the people I've talked
with in #alpha, only one uses Fedora/Alpha.

Thanks,

Matt

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:52:24 -0700
From: "Dialup Jon Norstog" <thursday allidaho com>
Subject: Re: Secondary architectures and marketing
To: Linux on Alpha processors <axp-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20090116215120 M74412 allidaho com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Matt Turner" <mattst88 gmail com>
To: "Linux on Alpha processors" <axp-list redhat com>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:19:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Secondary architectures and marketing

>
>
> I don't really know of any userbase. Of all the people I've talked
> with in #alpha, only one uses Fedora/Alpha.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
>

Well, there's me - I use Fedora/Alpha every day. I guess that makes 2?

jn

------------------------------

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