Re: next Beta

[Jean Francois Martinez <jfm2 club-internet fr>]

Andrew Smith wrote:

> > Joe Klemmer wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 jfm2 club-internet fr wrote:
> >> >  Mandrake has IMHO the right answer here: if you are new to Linux
> >> >  you
> >> > get postfix, if you are not then you are given the choice between
> >> > sendmail and postfix (and since the Mandrake installer is GPL and is
> >> > leagues ahead of anaconda RedHat should take the occasion to "steal
> >> > back" something from Mandrake).
> >>         Hhhmmmm....  Most of the people I work with prefer the RH
> >>         install
> >> over Mandrake by a large margin.  Mandrake's install doesn't do things
> >> the way I need them to and that seems to be the bigest problems others
> >> have.
> > And most of people I know including those who prefer RedHat think its
> > installer
> > does not compare with Mandrake's.
> >
> > Lets's have a comparison:
> >
> > -At the end of installation Mandrake is perfectly operational:  it
> > connects to youtr ISP, it has no unnecessary daemons started, it also
> > prints.  If you printed through SMB then it has been smart enough to
> > install Samba. With RedHat you still have to trim daemons and xinetd
> > lists, you still have to configure your Internet access, you still have
> > to configure printing and it is not smart enough to install Samba if
> > you need it for printing.  It is true
> > that RedHat detects and configures sound card at first boot while you
> > have to do it manually with Mandrake.  It is true that RedHat has
> > configured firewalling (I haven't investigated Mandrake's secure mode).
> >  However I think
> >
> > the round goes to Mandrake.     Mandrake 1  RedHat 0
>
> OK - I'm not going one way or the other with install since I've never
> used Mandrake.
>
> However, corrections to the above statements:
>
> What exactly must you do to xinetd?
> Every time I installed 7.1 everything was off - has this changed in 7.2?
>

I don't remember specifically for xinetd daemons and even for xinetd
itself.  But if you do an install all you will get NFS and several other
daemons running, sucking resources and being potential security
holes

>
> And what are the unnecessary daemons?
> (and don't say sendmail since by setup it is a local MTA so who cares)
>
> To connect to your ISP you can run internet-config in KDE (not sure
> about Gnome) which is very easy. I hope Mandrake doesn't require you
> to setup your ISP connection during install. (and it damn well better
> not do it by itself :-)
>

Given Mandrake's explosive growth in  only three years (by october 1998 Gael

Duval was still selling CDs he had burnt himself) my guess is that most
people prefer Mandrake's way.  If you don't want to configure your ISP at
install
time you can skip the question but many people specially between
unexperienced
users prefer being channedled for that kind of mandatory tasks instead of
having
to find them after install.   Mandrake will also do things like installing
the right driver
if you tell it you have an exotic modem like the SpeedTouch ADSL modem.

Also in Mandrake dial up and LAN users get equal treatment while in RedHat
if you
are in LAN you get first class treatment (to begin with you are prompted for
network
parms during installation) while dial-up and ADSL users get second class
treatment.


>
> As for samba - you mean it probes the network and sets up printers
> automagically? So what happens if you set it up in a large office
> with lots of printers? :-) :-)

You obviously know the SMB name of the host printer isn't it?  So go in
alphabetical
order and find the host


> If it shows you a list to choose from (by default) then that is OK.

The Mandrake people live ina Unix stronghold and they have limited
understanduing of the needs of an SMB user.  You need to know the
numerical IP adress of the print server (this would be easy to fix IMHO)
but user does not need to find about Samba, to know about the print
configurator and so on like in RedHat.  He is able to print just after
ending
installation..  For instance he can print docs about the problems he has.
:-)


>
> Interestingly enough, the two items you admit to RedHat are really big
> ones!
> To configure sound for one of my sound cards that was not on the
> supported list was rather difficult in my opinion - but that may be
> my lack of initial understanding of ALSA.
> As for firewalls - there is no way in hell that ANY Linux install these
> days should not have a firewall prompt during install (IMHO :-)

As I said I haven't investigated Mandrake.  I think it automatically
firewalls if you have selected a high enough security level.   I think
this is not flexible enough

>
> <

--
Jean Francois Martinez

Project Independence http://independence.seul.org
Because Linux should be for everyone