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Re: Relationship to existing 3rd party repos/CentOS/SL?



Dag Wieers wrote:

Still, nobody listens to the voice me or Axel represents. And I'm sure opponents like to minimize what it represents or the value it has.

I don't think that's quite true. Many people, including myself, have expressed publically before how much they appreciate both the work (in terms of existing packages & support) and the input (in terms of knowledge) from yourself, Axel and others. The kmod debate may not have been much fun, and it didn't end up with the result you wanted, but even in that debate you will find many people appreciative of your experience with a large userbase.

There is nothing better than yourself & Axel (and all the others with similar experience) contributing to EPEL. I really would like for that to happen, because the end result is better when a whole group of people work together in collaboration and co-operation.

I also think you are over-personalising this by talking about "opponents" and suchlike. I can (respectfully) disagree with someone, but it doesn't mean they are an "opponent". Actually, many times we might be trying to achieve the same thing, we just have different opinions. Sometimes there is no right or wrong, just a matter of perspective.

Fact is that RPMforge and AtRPMS will now drop the repotag now that Fedora rejected the idea. Have fun sorting through a mess where there are different eg. clamav packages with the same version-release and different content. That's what you get when you do not differentiate packages.

Personally I don't have a problem with this in the slightest, which is part of the reason why I am so ambivalent about repotags. I'm 100% sure that "EPEL doesn't have repotag" DOES NOT mean "Stuff you Axel/Dag". (Actually, I had no participation in the original debate, and I did not vote, so I'm commenting as an observer. But personally I think it is entirely up to you whether you use a repotag or not in your own private repo, I respect that decision either way, and I am quite happy both ways).

You & Axel appear to be implying that you removing repotags is some kind of threat, which is going to teach a lesson to some of the people who opposed it in EPEL. Maybe it will, but personally I don't see it as a big deal either way. Again, I'm not actually trying to discuss the repotag issue here - just to point out that co-existence is mutual: nobody in EPEL can criticise you for removing repotags, but I've not heard from anyone that *wants* to criticise you. Perhaps I missed them, but I didn't notice anybody saying "hey, we don't need repotags, because we're special - but Dag does.". So, please, remove your repotag. If anyone in EPEL who opposed repotags in EPEL criticises you, then you can rightly claim they are hypocritical. But I suspect that nobody will actually complain. Well, time will tell.

Fedora/EPEL is actively making sure people cannot use packages from different sources

I don't think this is true. However, I do personally keep my active use of repos to a minimum because I personally find that mixing of sources is incompatible with the reasons I'm using an enterprise distro - regardless of the respective quality of the various repos. However, I don't see anything proposed that actually *stops* people doing that if they really want.

It's also important to remember that EPEL is more or less just a bunch of people trying to achieve a similar goal, not some kind of power-crazed organisation. You can be a part of that and influence the outcome, but human nature dictates that it's easier to do that "from the inside" than out. That said, as Axel is demonstrating, merely being part of the group doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with - and at the end of the day you have to decide whether the tradeoff of being part of something collaborative is worth the downside of having to live with decisions you sometimes disagree with. (Which also means sometimes having to sit back and watch some other people learn the hard way about some things and be able to say "I told you so". That's frustrating I know, but it's also life :)


Tim


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