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log from 2007-06-20 meeting



Jun 20 11:00:32 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule
Jun 20 11:00:40 -->	[0x100] (n=bjohnson c-67-172-144-52 hsd1 co comcast net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:00:49 <mmcgrath>	wwoods: :)
Jun 20 11:00:59 <mmcgrath>	Ping epel contributors, who's here?
Jun 20 11:01:13 *	[0x100] listening
Jun 20 11:01:15 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore, nirik, stahnma, quaid: ping
Jun 20 11:01:33 *	nirik is here... 
Jun 20 11:01:38 <mmcgrath>	nirik: yo
Jun 20 11:01:41 <quaid>	oi
Jun 20 11:01:46 <dgilmore>	sup mmcgrath
Jun 20 11:01:50 -->	smooge (n=smooge pdpc/supporter/bronze/smooge) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:01:54 <mmcgrath>	smooge: yooooo
Jun 20 11:02:11 <mmcgrath>	Anyone else want to MC this meeting?  If not I'll do it.
Jun 20 11:02:21 <f13>	I'm in the peanut gallary today
Jun 20 11:02:22 <rsc>	<- here too
Jun 20 11:02:32 <f13>	morbidly curious as to if repotags will be brought up again this week.
Jun 20 11:02:49 <mmcgrath>	Alllright.
Jun 20 11:02:57 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: Finish the wiki - quaid
Jun 20 11:03:01 <mmcgrath>	quaid: Whats the word bird?
Jun 20 11:03:40 <quaid>	oh, well
Jun 20 11:03:54 <quaid>	I didn't finish by end of last week, did I?
Jun 20 11:04:11 *	mmcgrath doesn't remember what's left
Jun 20 11:04:12 <quaid>	so ..
Jun 20 11:04:21 <quaid>	I think all of you have done a good job of making the content ... full and rich
Jun 20 11:04:37 <quaid>	so it's a few hours of edits left
Jun 20 11:05:03 <quaid>	I'll be able to do an hour today, for sure,  so again ... should be done by the end of the week :)
Jun 20 11:05:16 <mmcgrath>	:) k.  We'll be looking forward to that.
Jun 20 11:05:23 <quaid>	is it a gating factor right now for announcements and such?
Jun 20 11:05:33 *	quaid sometimes has to respond only to what is on fire or about to be
Jun 20 11:05:36 <mmcgrath>	yeah, just to finally say "we're here"
Jun 20 11:05:40 <quaid>	ok
Jun 20 11:05:49 <quaid>	it will help my other causes
Jun 20 11:05:57 <quaid>	such as getting RH marketing attention
Jun 20 11:06:02 <quaid>	if it is all announced and here and such
Jun 20 11:06:03 <mmcgrath>	<nod>
Jun 20 11:06:08 <quaid>	ok, then
Jun 20 11:06:14 <nirik>	don't we need to have updates/buildsys solved before we can formally announce?
Jun 20 11:06:19 <mmcgrath>	quaid: anything else on that topic?
Jun 20 11:06:28 <mmcgrath>	nirik: not sure.  Thats part of the next topic though.
Jun 20 11:06:31 <quaid>	related is the communications plan, so I'll work them together
Jun 20 11:06:36 *	rdieter sits in the rabble seats...
Jun 20 11:06:52 <quaid>	so, one outcome is to ask everyone by EOWeek to comment on that plan
Jun 20 11:06:56 <quaid>	eof
Jun 20 11:06:57 *	_blah_ hands rdieter a frosty beverage
Jun 20 11:07:00 <mmcgrath>	:)
Jun 20 11:07:12 *	quaid could use more hot coffee,himself
Jun 20 11:07:15 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: Repo-layout - UNASSIGNED
Jun 20 11:07:32 <mmcgrath>	lmacken: ping?
Jun 20 11:07:54 <lmacken>	mmcgrath: pong
Jun 20 11:08:18 <lmacken>	i looked at the proposed layout.. looks fine to me
Jun 20 11:08:20 <mmcgrath>	so we're talking about the repo layout and part of that is the updates system.
Jun 20 11:08:31 <lmacken>	might require some bodhi hackery.... but shouldn't be too bad
Jun 20 11:08:32 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: how different is the proposed layout from what we currently have there?
Jun 20 11:09:02 <mmcgrath>	lmacken: my concern is what else you have on your plate for bodhi, do you know when we might be able to start using bodhi?
Jun 20 11:09:19 <lmacken>	mmcgrath: isn't EPEL still blocking on koji support ?
Jun 20 11:09:30 <mmcgrath>	lmacken: it depends on how you look at it.
Jun 20 11:09:37 *	mmcgrath has been using EPEL for a couple of months.
Jun 20 11:09:48 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: quite a bit
Jun 20 11:09:57 <nirik>	I'm worried that stable/rolling will confuse people (It does sort of confuse me)
Jun 20 11:10:10 <lmacken>	well, once koji knows about EPEL, adding support to bodhi will take a few minutes
Jun 20 11:10:13 <dgilmore>	lmacken: to do what we really want we need koji and bodhi  thats not going to happen for awhile
Jun 20 11:10:20 <lmacken>	hmm..
Jun 20 11:10:45 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: yeah, thats my concern too.  I think development on Fedora will keep lmacken and mbonnet busy for a while.
Jun 20 11:10:53 <nirik>	hate to re-open old discussions, but could we look at just building with Centos to get past the block on moving to koji?
Jun 20 11:10:56 <dgilmore>	the work in koji is low priority right now
Jun 20 11:11:15 <mmcgrath>	so the question is... what do we do about it?  We have people, we have the source, we even have a current working system.  Do we wait or announce?
Jun 20 11:11:15 <rdieter>	nirik: +1 (stable vs rollilng = needless confusion)
Jun 20 11:11:33 <nirik>	mmcgrath: current scripts can't deal with testing. 
Jun 20 11:11:59 <mmcgrath>	I'm pretty sure bodhi+koji is months away if no one in our group does the work and submits a patch.
Jun 20 11:12:10 <rdieter>	announce: +1, just do it.  Release early, release often = good.
Jun 20 11:12:19 <nirik>	if someone could mod the current push scripts to handle pushing to updates I think we could move forward with plague... 
Jun 20 11:12:41 <nirik>	also we need to make sure we have broken deps and evr checking in place to block broken packages. 
Jun 20 11:12:57 <dgilmore>	nirik: we really cant do that right now
Jun 20 11:13:14 <dgilmore>	since we cant expose RHEL binaries to check against
Jun 20 11:13:38 <nirik>	ugh. ;( 
Jun 20 11:13:46 <_blah_>	mmcgrath: what modifications need to be made to koji?
Jun 20 11:13:58 <--	Karl_le_Rouge has quit (Connection timed out)
Jun 20 11:14:02 <mmcgrath>	_blah_: I'm not quite sure, you'd have to work with mbonnet
Jun 20 11:14:04 <mmcgrath>	mbonnet: ping?
Jun 20 11:14:08 <mmcgrath>	mbonnet__: ping?
Jun 20 11:14:11 <dgilmore>	_blah_: we need to be able to mark binaries as private for security embrago, RHEL  etc
Jun 20 11:14:13 <mbonnet>	mmcgrath: yo
Jun 20 11:14:33 <mmcgrath>	mbonnet: we're talking about the private binaries and the RHEL rpm's.  Exactly what sort of work would be involved with that?
Jun 20 11:14:37 <dgilmore>	make them not show up in the web interface  and not be accesable via the web period
Jun 20 11:15:04 <_blah_>	dgilmore: would it be okay for users to see that an rpm exists, but not be able to download it?
Jun 20 11:15:11 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: but still have them exposed to the builders, right?
Jun 20 11:15:21 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: yes
Jun 20 11:15:33 *	nirik thinks just using centos would be much easier and open, but oh well. ;( 
Jun 20 11:15:33 <dgilmore>	_blah_: they cant see it exists
Jun 20 11:15:49 <mbonnet>	mmcgrath: unless we want to stop making koji.fp.o/packages/ web accessible, it's a non-trivial amount of work
Jun 20 11:16:01 <dgilmore>	nirik: we could probably depsolve against CentOS binaries
Jun 20 11:16:06 <_blah_>	dgilmore: so buildroot listing would be invalid?
Jun 20 11:16:12 <mmcgrath>	mbonnet: what if we did a mod_rewrite regarding the el tags ?
Jun 20 11:16:25 <mmcgrath>	oh wait, some of the RHEL bins have fc6 in the dist tag :)
Jun 20 11:16:27 <dgilmore>	_blah_: probably yes
Jun 20 11:16:34 <mbonnet>	mmcgrath: not all RHEL packages necessarily use .el5 disttags
Jun 20 11:16:44 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: because they are fc6 builds  so there is no harm there
Jun 20 11:16:58 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: they are already released
Jun 20 11:17:24 <mmcgrath>	so right now the announcement is blocking on the build system.
Jun 20 11:17:56 <mmcgrath>	nirik: regarding testing, is that the only piece missing from what is currently in place?
Jun 20 11:18:19 <nirik>	not sure... dgilmore ? 
Jun 20 11:18:39 <nirik>	we need to be able to selectively push to testing and from there to stable or direct to stable (security)
Jun 20 11:18:43 <mmcgrath>	Its just odd that we're blocking on that since EPEL is already there.
Jun 20 11:18:53 <nirik>	right now everything goes to stable/release. 
Jun 20 11:18:57 <mmcgrath>	nirik: but do we need that right now?  Or just as a long/middle term goal?
Jun 20 11:19:56 <nirik>	well, according to the old release plan, we would not allow minor updates/version bumps/minor bugfixes in a minor release cycle, they would queue up in testing and then go to release only when the next minor was out. 
Jun 20 11:20:16 <nirik>	ie, 5.0 is out now, minor updates queue in testing, when 5.1 comes out they go to release. 
Jun 20 11:20:26 <_blah_>	mbonnet / dgilmore: are there any design docs on how to modify koji to do this?  or has the embargoed binaries mod not even made it to the whiteboard stage?
Jun 20 11:20:39 <dgilmore>	there is alot of work to enable testing in the current scripts
Jun 20 11:20:43 <nirik>	but if we want to change our release procedures I guess we could do without testing. I would like to have it tho. 
Jun 20 11:20:51 <mbonnet>	_blah_: there are ideas, but no consensus yet
Jun 20 11:20:56 <dgilmore>	_blah_: right now its just an idea
Jun 20 11:21:03 <mmcgrath>	nirik: I'd like to too, but not if it means we wait till December :-/
Jun 20 11:21:28 <mmcgrath>	Ok, so lets discuss this on the list further.
Jun 20 11:21:28 <rdieter>	imo, go without testing for now.  It comes for free with koji/bodhi integration (yes?).
Jun 20 11:21:33 <nirik>	yeah, it's frustrating sometimes the slow progress... ;( 
Jun 20 11:22:14 <mmcgrath>	nirik: we need more worker bees.  Progress would be quick if we could get someone to hack on Koji but mbonnet is busy with other stuff (and rightfully so)
Jun 20 11:22:24 <mmcgrath>	So I see two threads we need to start on the list
Jun 20 11:22:31 <mmcgrath>	1) staging / rolling
Jun 20 11:22:48 <mmcgrath>	2) Testing and what we can and cannot do right now based off of the tools we have.
Jun 20 11:22:53 <mmcgrath>	is that right?
Jun 20 11:22:58 <nirik>	yeah, time is always at a premium. :( 
Jun 20 11:23:04 <nirik>	right. 
Jun 20 11:23:10 *	mmcgrath wishes days were 26 hours long :)
Jun 20 11:23:25 <mmcgrath>	nirik: would you mind starting 1) ?  I'll start 2)
Jun 20 11:23:54 <nirik>	sure, was meaning to reply to knurd's thread about the repolayout with that. 
Jun 20 11:24:04 <mmcgrath>	k.
Jun 20 11:24:10 <mmcgrath>	I'll move on to the next item for now
Jun 20 11:24:18 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: Make sure the repo is in good shape - UNASSIGNED
Jun 20 11:24:30 <_blah_>	mbonnet / dgilmore: i'm not an awesome python programmer but im willing to help implement once a consensus is developed.  for an out there suggestion you could use selinux + sepostgres for mac to make sure that, for example, only redhat internal can see embargoed binaries.
Jun 20 11:24:43 <mmcgrath>	So it was brought up in #epel last week that we should probably start running the spam-o-matic script.
Jun 20 11:25:08 <_blah_>	mmcgrath: there are lots of broken dependencies in epel right now.
Jun 20 11:25:11 <mmcgrath>	And toshio noticed a lot of packages that were not in the epel owners list.
Jun 20 11:25:23 <mmcgrath>	abadger1999: ping
Jun 20 11:25:30 <nirik>	+a lot to spam-o-matic
Jun 20 11:25:32 <mmcgrath>	_blah_: do you happen to have an estimate?
Jun 20 11:25:58 <nirik>	toshio's changes to owners.epel.list were checked in... hopefully now everything is in there. 
Jun 20 11:26:01 <_blah_>	mmcgrath: i've only looked at bugzilla and there are maybe 10 missing dependencies for it alone.
Jun 20 11:26:10 <abadger1999>	mmcgrath: pong
Jun 20 11:26:34 <mmcgrath>	abadger1999: how bad was the owners epel list?
Jun 20 11:26:37 <nirik>	_blah_: I fixed one of mine a few days ago... it wasn't assigned properly to me, so the fedora maintainer wasn't sure what to do. 
Jun 20 11:26:44 <mmcgrath>	as far as missing packages and stuff?
Jun 20 11:26:45 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: i synced up the tree agaes ago  but have not made sure that it was continued since
Jun 20 11:27:03 <nirik>	I see 4 open epel bugs. 
Jun 20 11:27:28 <abadger1999>	mmcgrath: 16 missing entries
Jun 20 11:27:33 <mmcgrath>	_blah_: when you say dependency are you talking about packages that aren't listed in bugzilla?  Or are you talking about packages that won't install because a required package isn't available?
Jun 20 11:27:42 <mmcgrath>	abadger1999: can you send me the list?
Jun 20 11:28:09 <abadger1999>	Make that 12.  4 were a maintainer changed email addresses.
Jun 20 11:28:17 <abadger1999>	Will the diff do?
Jun 20 11:28:36 <mmcgrath>	abadger1999: sure
Jun 20 11:28:38 <mmcgrath>	thanks.
Jun 20 11:28:41 <_blah_>	mmcgrath: packages that won't install due to missing dependencies.
Jun 20 11:28:47 <mmcgrath>	_blah_: k.
Jun 20 11:28:49 <nirik>	mock and bugzilla packages are the only 2 with bugs files about missing dependencies. 
Jun 20 11:28:59 <mmcgrath>	so I'll do some more research on getting spam-o-matic just running.
Jun 20 11:29:20 <mmcgrath>	please don't kill me :)
Jun 20 11:30:10 <nirik>	I think spam for that is good... also if the push scripts can spot broken deps/evrs and allow not pushing a package that would be great. 
Jun 20 11:30:17 <mmcgrath>	k.
Jun 20 11:30:33 <mmcgrath>	Anyone else have anything on that topic?
Jun 20 11:30:44 <dgilmore>	make it happen
Jun 20 11:31:07 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: we need to find a server to host that stuff.  Right now spam-o-matic is still run on some rawhide server internally.
Jun 20 11:31:10 <mmcgrath>	probably app5...
Jun 20 11:31:29 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: sounds sane to me   we can run repo checks there against RHEL
Jun 20 11:31:38 <mmcgrath>	k
Jun 20 11:31:46 <mmcgrath>	next item...
Jun 20 11:31:51 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: Announce EPEL officially
Jun 20 11:32:04 <mmcgrath>	so we're blocking on the wiki as well as the build stuff.
Jun 20 11:32:32 <mmcgrath>	So thats the end of the big picture tasks really.
Jun 20 11:33:05 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL mock configs in Fedora's mock package
Jun 20 11:33:12 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: this got completed I think right?
Jun 20 11:33:23 <f13>	in updates-testing
Jun 20 11:33:29 <f13>	we need to spin a new package though
Jun 20 11:33:32 <mmcgrath>	f13: so its on its way out?
Jun 20 11:33:38 <f13>	somewhat
Jun 20 11:33:51 <mmcgrath>	k, I'll leave that up for next week just to be safe
Jun 20 11:34:01 <f13>	k
Jun 20 11:34:09 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- comps.xml for EPEL -- dgilmore nirik and Jeff_S
Jun 20 11:34:15 <f13>	if somebody could grab it from updates-testing and verify that the epel configs work that would b egood.
Jun 20 11:34:32 <nirik>	f13: I have used the latest mock on rawhide ok with epel4/5... 
Jun 20 11:34:38 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: mi started on it  i wanted to remove packages that dont exist before checking it in
Jun 20 11:34:49 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: k
Jun 20 11:35:10 <dgilmore>	but i can check it in and then let people clean it up
Jun 20 11:35:30 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: sounds good, when you think its ready send a note to the list and we'll all take a look
Jun 20 11:36:19 *	stahnma is here now 
Jun 20 11:36:24 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- Communication plan for enterprise customers/ISVs/IHVs -- stahnma, quaid
Jun 20 11:36:27 <mmcgrath>	stahnma: yo
Jun 20 11:36:37 <mmcgrath>	quaid: stahnma: any updates / ideas on this?
Jun 20 11:37:27 -->	riczho (i=ricky gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xCCAF484E) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:37:38 *	f13 has a lovely topic to bring up too
Jun 20 11:37:57 <stahnma>	I haven't done much of anything since the packager draft
Jun 20 11:38:02 <mmcgrath>	f13: k, one moment :)
Jun 20 11:38:12 <stahnma>	asking if if I a packager has plans to branch for EPEL
Jun 20 11:38:20 <stahnma>	I will clean that up this week and send out on list again
Jun 20 11:38:30 <mmcgrath>	stahnma: k.  Sounds good.
Jun 20 11:38:44 <stahnma>	I will need some branching info from dgilmore
Jun 20 11:38:50 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- vacant seat in the steering committee
Jun 20 11:38:59 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: hook stahnma up :)
Jun 20 11:39:12 <mmcgrath>	So whats the latest on the vacant seat?  I'll be honest I haven't followed it that closely.
Jun 20 11:39:13 *	quaid updated on the comm plan before, fwiw
Jun 20 11:39:42 <nirik>	not sure... Perhaps we should ping the list asking if anyone at all is interested?
Jun 20 11:39:51 <dgilmore>	stahnma: what access do you need?
Jun 20 11:39:55 <nirik>	I think jeff_s was interested... don't see him around today tho
Jun 20 11:40:01 <stahnma>	no access, just some questions dgilmore
Jun 20 11:40:02 <mmcgrath>	nirik: I thought someone was interested already and made that known.
Jun 20 11:40:04 <dgilmore>	nirik: smooge was also
Jun 20 11:40:06 <stahnma>	we can talk later dgilmore
Jun 20 11:40:12 <dgilmore>	stahnma: hit me up
Jun 20 11:40:19 <stahnma>	k
Jun 20 11:40:31 *	mmcgrath could be confused though.
Jun 20 11:40:50 <stahnma>	I thought a few people were interesed in the seat
Jun 20 11:41:14 <mmcgrath>	knurd would know, I'll take a look at the list archives.
Jun 20 11:41:19 <stahnma>	Jeff_S or smooge maybe?
Jun 20 11:41:22 <stahnma>	ok
Jun 20 11:41:32 <dgilmore>	stahnma: both of them
Jun 20 11:41:37 <mmcgrath>	smooge: were you interested in a seat on the SIG?
Jun 20 11:41:54 <nirik>	perhaps we could just add both? I think more input would be good... of course that would make an even number
Jun 20 11:42:06 *	stahnma would be happy with either/both of them
Jun 20 11:42:11 <mmcgrath>	same here
Jun 20 11:42:24 <smooge>	I was interested... but withdrew my self-nomination as I saw that there were too many layer-8 issues I couldnt help with without getting people in a room with a brick
Jun 20 11:42:34 <mmcgrath>	we'll take that to the list since Jeff_S doesn't appear to be around right now and I'd hate to volunteer him :)
Jun 20 11:42:43 <stahnma>	ok
Jun 20 11:42:45 <stahnma>	sounds like a plan
Jun 20 11:42:46 <mmcgrath>	smooge: fair enough
Jun 20 11:42:58 <mmcgrath>	thats all I see on the schedule
Jun 20 11:43:05 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- Free discussion around EPEL
Jun 20 11:43:09 <mmcgrath>	f13: you had a topic to discuss?
Jun 20 11:43:14 <nirik>	smooge: any input would be welcome tho... brick or no. ;) 
Jun 20 11:43:33 <f13>	mmcgrath: yeah, has RHX been discussed at all?
Jun 20 11:43:42 <mmcgrath>	f13: not seriously.
Jun 20 11:43:46 <f13>	specifically, RHX is in RHN, but it hosts some opensource content.
Jun 20 11:43:46 <smooge>	what is RHX?
Jun 20 11:43:58 <skvidal>	the red hat exchange, of course
Jun 20 11:44:01 <f13>	and you can't get to that content through rhn without buying whatever RHX is selling for that particular software
Jun 20 11:44:07 <mmcgrath>	I brought up the idea of having the MySQL guys actually maintaining MySQL and having EPEL allow for that.
Jun 20 11:44:13 <f13>	so how does that fall with our EPEL can't package anything available in RHX?
Jun 20 11:44:14 <skvidal>	a way of upstream isvs getting software pkged and available via rhn
Jun 20 11:44:25 <f13>	er
Jun 20 11:44:27 <f13>	so how does that fall with our EPEL can't package anything available in RHN?
Jun 20 11:44:39 <skvidal>	f13: what?
Jun 20 11:44:50 <nirik>	not sure... is there any way to see whats available there?
Jun 20 11:44:52 <mmcgrath>	f13: thats part of our guidelines (not really RHN but the core OS)
Jun 20 11:44:53 *	stahnma notes that most stuff on RHX isn't even in Fedora yet
Jun 20 11:45:09 <mmcgrath>	but I think if we were going to coordinate with an ISV to bring something out of RHEL into EPEL, that shouldn't be a problem.
Jun 20 11:45:10 <stahnma>	I thought the guidelines did mention layered products too
Jun 20 11:45:11 <f13>	stahnma: not yet, but just yesterday I had a conversation with Digium about Asterisk.
Jun 20 11:45:19 <stahnma>	f13: great :)
Jun 20 11:45:20 -->	JSchmitt_ (n=s4504kr p54B10976 dip0 t-ipconnect de) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:45:34 <f13>	stahnma: they are fixing it up to go into Fedora, and RHX, but if it's in RHX, can we put it in EPEL? and how do we handle where EPEL NVR might be different than RHX and ....
Jun 20 11:45:35 <stahnma>	what about things like Fedora-d?
Jun 20 11:45:45 <--	JSchmitt_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jun 20 11:45:49 <stahnma>	fedora-ds even
Jun 20 11:45:53 <_blah_>	f13: sounds like you're asking for repotags
Jun 20 11:45:55 *	_blah_ ducks
Jun 20 11:45:56 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: it also includes layerd products
Jun 20 11:45:56 <f13>	ditto Zenoss
Jun 20 11:46:00 -->	JSchmitt_ (n=s4504kr p54B10976 dip0 t-ipconnect de) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:46:14 <dgilmore>	fedora-ds is ok  and im going to make sure it gets in
Jun 20 11:46:17 <f13>	RHX throws a big wrinkle into the original guidelines for EPEL.
Jun 20 11:46:34 <mmcgrath>	f13: Well sort of.
Jun 20 11:46:36 <dgilmore>	f13: indeed RHX was not know about when we started
Jun 20 11:46:39 <mmcgrath>	I guess we'd leave that up to the ISV
Jun 20 11:46:45 <stahnma>	f13: I agree, we should revisit this.  Will the big problem be we compete against RH on it?
Jun 20 11:46:51 *	quaid perks up at f13's question
Jun 20 11:46:58 <stahnma>	if we have the same (similar) open source packages ready for EL
Jun 20 11:47:05 <f13>	stahnma: I honestly don't know.  I haven't brought up the subject to many people internally yet.
Jun 20 11:47:06 <mmcgrath>	f13: it'd be nice to work with the RHX people in this regard but I'm not sure if they even know EPEL exists.
Jun 20 11:47:12 <f13>	they do
Jun 20 11:47:20 <f13>	I've been talking with the RHX releng person a bit about this.
Jun 20 11:47:20 <quaid>	hrm
Jun 20 11:47:27 <quaid>	I hadn't thought of this either
Jun 20 11:47:31 <mmcgrath>	f13: How does RH intend on maintaing the Zenoss RPM?
Jun 20 11:47:37 <smooge>	f13, does priorities work with RHN?
Jun 20 11:47:38 <dgilmore>	f13: theres one package in RHX that id like to see in Fedora and EPEL and its build setup is horrible
Jun 20 11:47:40 <mmcgrath>	did they plan on having the Zenoss people do it?
Jun 20 11:47:54 <quaid>	mmcgrath: RHX is tier 1 and 2 support
Jun 20 11:47:56 <quaid>	for the whole stack
Jun 20 11:47:59 <stahnma>	the conundrum of the day goes to f13
Jun 20 11:48:03 <mmcgrath>	quaid: but what about the actual RPM's?
Jun 20 11:48:06 <quaid>	RHX then escalates to the vendor
Jun 20 11:48:06 <nirik>	perhaps this would get some traction for a rpm/yum/up2date solution to multiple repos. ;) 
Jun 20 11:48:13 <f13>	mmcgrath: the idea is that ISVs can maintain the software, but it has to adhere to Fedora packaging standards to be in RHX
Jun 20 11:48:14 <quaid>	aiui, RHX does their own RPMs
Jun 20 11:48:23 <quaid>	oh, right
Jun 20 11:48:25 <dgilmore>	how do RHX packages get built?
Jun 20 11:48:26 <quaid>	duff is working with people
Jun 20 11:48:51 <f13>	dgilmore: right now?  an internal build server
Jun 20 11:48:52 <mmcgrath>	f13: EPEL does have the infrastructure to do all of this already, it was one of the hopes/plans for EPEL.
Jun 20 11:48:55 <quaid>	look, I can't solve this stuff, but 'tis my purview to lead us to a solution
Jun 20 11:48:56 <dgilmore>	f13: i dont see how the package i want adheres to our packaging standards
Jun 20 11:49:00 -->	nman64 (n=n-man fedora/nman64) has joined #fedora-meeting
Jun 20 11:49:15 <f13>	dgilmore: yeah, dhuff wasn't good about that for the first round of get it out the door
Jun 20 11:49:15 <quaid>	dgilmore: it may be "in transition"
Jun 20 11:49:22 <mmcgrath>	dgilmore: I don't think the RHX stuff is really out the door yet.
Jun 20 11:49:32 <f13>	mmcgrath: it's available and announced
Jun 20 11:49:36 <f13>	for US customers at least.
Jun 20 11:49:50 *	stahnma has browsed it a few times...
Jun 20 11:49:55 <quaid>	who from EPEL can woirk on this
Jun 20 11:49:55 <mmcgrath>	f13: yeah but are the RPM's available and built under Fedora's guidelines?
Jun 20 11:50:00 <quaid>	from the technical standpoint?
Jun 20 11:50:02 <dgilmore>	quaid, f13:  what i want to use is Zimbra.  its one of the most horrible set of something ive seen as far as packing goes
Jun 20 11:50:08 <stahnma>	from a customer perspecitve, I would love to see this stuff in EPEL to 'try before i buy'
Jun 20 11:50:21 <stahnma>	then if my compnay relies upon it heavily, move to RHX
Jun 20 11:50:25 <dgilmore>	stahnma: indeed
Jun 20 11:50:26 <stahnma>	much like RHEL
Jun 20 11:50:28 <smooge>	voice from the outside, at least some customers of RHEL/RHN had thought Red Hat Exchange was EPEL
Jun 20 11:50:34 <mmcgrath>	f13: quaid: what are the odds that RH would support those RPM's in EPEL?
Jun 20 11:50:42 <f13>	dgilmore: right, as I said, they've been somewhat fly by night to get things launched.  He's now working with us to try and integrate our guidelines, and was even talking about using our build system to produce the content.
Jun 20 11:50:48 <quaid>	mmcgrath: well, it might be higher than you think
Jun 20 11:50:56 <quaid>	yep
Jun 20 11:51:01 <mmcgrath>	quaid: can you look into that more?
Jun 20 11:51:04 <dgilmore>	mmcgrath: id like to see that
Jun 20 11:51:05 <quaid>	f13: I talked with duff about that a few months ago
Jun 20 11:51:13 <quaid>	mmcgrath: yes, that's my purview as a work position
Jun 20 11:51:23 <f13>	quaid: yeah, he pinged me on it a week or 2 ago
Jun 20 11:51:29 <mmcgrath>	Does anyone here think RH shouldn't support RHX packages packaged in EPEL?
Jun 20 11:51:30 <f13>	at which point I brought up epel.
Jun 20 11:51:35 <f13>	although the kicker is....
Jun 20 11:51:37 <_blah_>	does everything on RHX require a subscription?
Jun 20 11:51:40 <quaid>	to coordinate between online services grps (such as RHX) and FEdora groups (such as EPEL)
Jun 20 11:51:41 <f13>	RHX can have content which is not open source
Jun 20 11:51:44 <mmcgrath>	_blah_: yeah
Jun 20 11:51:56 <f13>	so RHX can't entirely rely upon our infrastructure as they can't host the sources with us.
Jun 20 11:52:00 <dgilmore>	f13: yeah  but if its opensource id like to see it in EPEL
Jun 20 11:52:03 <quaid>	but they can
Jun 20 11:52:06 *	stahnma cries a little on the inside
Jun 20 11:52:06 <quaid>	witht he stuff that is FLOSS
Jun 20 11:52:08 <rdieter>	dgilmore: +1
Jun 20 11:52:12 <f13>	dgilmore: I woudl too
Jun 20 11:52:20 <quaid>	who can help me
Jun 20 11:52:24 <quaid>	from a tech standpoint
Jun 20 11:52:27 <quaid>	from EPEL?
Jun 20 11:52:27 <f13>	stahnma: yes, that makes me cry as well.  A /lot/.
Jun 20 11:52:40 <mmcgrath>	quaid: help with what exactly?
Jun 20 11:52:44 <quaid>	well
Jun 20 11:52:52 <dgilmore>	quaid: i can
Jun 20 11:52:54 <quaid>	packaging, build sys quesitons
Jun 20 11:52:56 <quaid>	ok
Jun 20 11:52:59 <f13>	quaid: I can help with what I can.  I'm not deeply entrenched within epel though, just keeping an eye on things.
Jun 20 11:53:15 <mmcgrath>	quaid: count me in as a second on that
Jun 20 11:53:19 <quaid>	f13: how about if you are in the loop on all the email, in a CI position of RACI?
Jun 20 11:53:24 <quaid>	mmcgrath too
Jun 20 11:53:28 <f13>	quaid: worksforme
Jun 20 11:53:31 <quaid>	ok
Jun 20 11:53:33 <mmcgrath>	sounds good
Jun 20 11:53:43 *	quaid smacks his head for not having seen this one coming
Jun 20 11:53:43 <stahnma>	if you need external customer POV, let me know
Jun 20 11:53:45 <dgilmore>	quaid: me too
Jun 20 11:53:48 <quaid>	stahnma: you bet
Jun 20 11:54:03 <dgilmore>	id like to be cc'd on things
Jun 20 11:54:05 <mmcgrath>	Ok, we're getting close to the top of the hour, anyone else have anything to discuss?
Jun 20 11:54:06 <quaid>	dgilmore: what I want to do is get with you and the RHX packager
Jun 20 11:54:16 <stahnma>	did we go a whole meeting without repotags?
Jun 20 11:54:28 <dgilmore>	quaid: sure
Jun 20 11:54:29 <quaid>	dgilmore: we'll start with that from the tech angle, and work up what "business problems" we create with all that;
Jun 20 11:54:33 <mmcgrath>	stahnma: yep, AFAIK, its done.  We voted.
Jun 20 11:54:39 *	stahnma cheers
Jun 20 11:54:41 <quaid>	stahnma: UNTIL JUST NOW
Jun 20 11:54:51 <quaid>	now it's greppable in the logs
Jun 20 11:54:53 <mmcgrath>	quaid: we could tap mspevack on this as well.
Jun 20 11:54:54 <dgilmore>	damn you stahnma for bring it up
Jun 20 11:54:59 <quaid>	mmcgrath: wise, yes
Jun 20 11:55:02 *	stahnma hasn't read back through the top yet...
Jun 20 11:55:22 <mmcgrath>	stahnma: did you have something further to discuss?
Jun 20 11:55:25 <quaid>	mmcgrath: I want us to suss out the tech thoughts before we go to someone for a "ruling"
Jun 20 11:55:30 <mmcgrath>	if not I'll close the meeting.
Jun 20 11:55:35 <stahnma>	mmcgrath: no, thanks though
Jun 20 11:55:36 <mmcgrath>	quaid: solid
Jun 20 11:55:40 <mmcgrath>	Alllright
Jun 20 11:55:44 *	mmcgrath will close the meeting in 30
Jun 20 11:55:46 <dgilmore>	we done?
Jun 20 11:56:02 <stahnma>	thanks all, dgilmore I will try to hit you up tonight
Jun 20 11:56:07 <mmcgrath>	10
Jun 20 11:56:11 <mmcgrath>	f5
Jun 20 11:56:13 <quaid>	f13: dhuff, right?
Jun 20 11:56:30 ---	mmcgrath has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- Meeting End
Jun 20 11:56:40 <mmcgrath>	Thanks everyone, who can send the log minutes?
Jun 20 11:56:52 *	mmcgrath has a horrible irc logger and it isn't enabled right now anyway :)
Jun 20 11:56:54 <f13>	quaid: yes.
Jun 20 11:57:12 <--	JSchmitt has quit (No route to host)
Jun 20 11:57:16 <f13>	13:02 <f13> morbidly curious as to if repotags will be brought up again this week.
Jun 20 11:57:19 <f13>	13:45 <_blah_> f13: sounds like you're asking for repotags
Jun 20 11:57:22 <f13>	13:54 <stahnma> did we go a whole meeting without repotags?
Jun 20 11:57:42 <nirik>	mmcgrath: I have logs, you want me to mail them to you? or ?
Jun 20 11:57:54 <mmcgrath>	nirik: to the list if you wouldn't mind.

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