Meeting Log for Today's Meeting (July 07, 2008)

Mon Jul 7 15:57:02 UTC 2008

EPEL Steering Committee Log

* Reminder new time Monday's at 15:00 UTC

Todos:
* stahnma will deliver a perl report
* quaid will work on the process of new packages in RHEL vs EPEL
* quaid will keep us updated on the status of branding/marketing ideas
working internally with RH Marketing and Branding
* stahnma will start filing bugs against packages with broken deps in EPEL

[10:04] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting
rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines".
[10:04] <stahnma> Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting?
[10:04] * quaid is a present KarstenWAde
[10:04] <SmootherFrOgZ> stahnma: you take the lead
[10:04] <SmootherFrOgZ> ?
[10:05] <stahnma> ok
[10:05] <quaid> yeah, looks like no smooge today
[10:05] <stahnma> wow, our wiki page looks like poo
[10:05] <stahnma> it could use some love
[10:06] <quaid> put {{needs love}} at the top of the page :)
[10:06] <stahnma> is there a template for that?
[10:06] <stahnma> that'd be nice
[10:06] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Status
Reports: Current build system | all | need to make a page... help?".
[10:06] * SmootherFrOgZ will have to leave in about 35min
[10:06] <quaid> yes, that's a current template
[10:07] <stahnma> anybody have any updates on the build system?
[10:07] <quaid> but really, it's us who need to figure that one out
[10:08] <stahnma> if not, I'll move on
[10:08] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Status
Reports: Package pushes -- knurd".
[10:08] <stahnma> knurd: we have moved to the 1st of the month for
both releases correct?
[10:08] <stahnma> does anybody have objections, or comments about this?
[10:09] --> jeffperry_fedora has joined this channel
(n=jperry at 146-115-228-134.c3-0.frm-ubr1.sbo-frm.ma.cable.rcn.com).
[10:09] * stahnma taps the mic, is this thing on?
[10:10] * quaid makes a terrible feedback noise
[10:10] * Jeff_S peeks in
[10:10] --> wolfy has joined this channel (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy).
[10:10] <stahnma> ok, I'll move on
[10:11] <quaid> ok
[10:11] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Package
Reports: What is waiting for what? | all | need to make a page...
help?".
[10:11] * quaid notes https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule
needs some love, too
[10:11] <stahnma> I'll be honest, I don't know exactly what this means
[10:11] <stahnma> the topic
[10:11] <SmootherFrOgZ> quaid: indeed
[10:11] <stahnma> quaid: that was where I added the {{needs love}}
[10:11] * jeffperry_fedora is peeking as well...just curious
[10:11] <stahnma> Are there any critical packages still not built in EPEL?
[10:12] <stahnma> or anything in particular anybody is waiting on?
[10:12] <stahnma> I know I get happy everytime I see perl modules added
[10:12] <quaid> heh
[10:12] <quaid> I often mention perl packages when introducing EPEL
[10:12] <stahnma> I'd like to get a report of how many perl packages
we have in fedora vs EPEL...
[10:12] <stahnma> quaid: that was my number 1 time saver of epel
[10:13] <stahnma> I could probably make said report
[10:13] * stahnma will try to send something to the list
[10:13] <stahnma> just as an FYI
[10:13] <quaid> there continues to be a ton of interest on the Java
side, and that has a lot of road still to travel
[10:13] <stahnma> agreed.  Fedora/EPEL can travel that road together
[10:14] <stahnma> there are a lot of unanswered questions there
[10:14] <stahnma> moving on?
[10:14] <quaid> I'll start covering that a bit more on
http://developer.redhatmagazine.com/
[10:14] * quaid wonders if "unstable EPEL" is on this agenda, or has
the list settled that well enough?
[10:14] --> tibbs has joined this channel (n=tibbs at fedora/tibbs).
[10:14] <stahnma> I thought it would come up during free discussion
[10:15] * Jeff_S looks around for who is serving the coffee
[10:16] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Package
Reports: Orphans in EPEL | all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc".
[10:16] <stahnma> are there orphans?
[10:16] <stahnma> to me the biggest problem seems to be with RH added
packages into RHEL and us not quite finding out about it until it's
too late
[10:16] <stahnma> which I guess is the opposite of orphans
[10:16] <stahnma> it's like unplanned siblings
[10:16] <Jeff_S> custody battle?
[10:17] <quaid> spot is supposed to alert EPEL SCo about that now
[10:17] <Jeff_S> I haven't seen much talk about orphans -- anyone else?
[10:17] <quaid> that process arose after that last RHEL update
[10:17] <spot> i'm supposed to do what?
[10:18] <quaid> spot: tell EPEL when packages are brought in to a RHEL update
[10:18] <quaid> (from EPEL)
[10:18] <Jeff_S> quaid: that was andy gospodarek who said he'd try to alert us
[10:18] --> gregdek has joined this channel
(n=gdk at nat/redhat/x-33c66440fec0cb5a).
[10:18] <spot> quaid: i can certainly forward information from the
beta and final releases
[10:19] <spot> but those package lists aren't exactly secret
[10:19] <Jeff_S> spot: that would be helpful
[10:19] <quaid> spot: what do you think is the best way to alert EPEL
earliest in the update process that packages are going to be sucked up
in to RHEL from EPEL?
[10:19] * knurd is back now; sorry, was in the kitchen
[10:20] <spot> i don't know what the best way would be, i'm not tied
into the RHEL 4/5 process tightly enough to give the super-heads-up
[10:20] <spot> i think the best I can do is to pass on the beta package list
[10:20] <stahnma> if we find out s early as possible (like at the Beta
timeframe) it's probably ok
[10:20] <quaid> spot: can you find the right person in releng to add
alerting epel-devel-list to their process?
[10:21] <spot> hehehehe
[10:21] <spot> quaid: you should ask f13 to help there
[10:21] * quaid fears this laugh
[10:21] <-- giallu has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[10:21] <quaid> f13: question from five lines up ...
[10:22] <Jeff_S> if we have a list we can compare against to see what
is added/removed, that would help avoid some headaches
[10:22] * nirik is back around for a few again.
[10:22] <f13> quaid: I'm not releng for that, so I would punt to mikem
and dgregor internally
[10:22] <quaid> agreed, but you'd figure ... well, that someone knows
they are pulling the packages from EPEL and can just alert
[10:23] <stahnma> yeah, we'll have to work with rel-eng and RH proper on this
[10:23] <quaid> f13: that's McCune?
[10:23] <Jeff_S> shouldn't be hard for them, they just likely never
thought about it before...
[10:24] <quaid> ok
[10:24] <f13> quaid: no, Mike McLean
[10:24] <quaid> I'll send them email
[10:24] <quaid> f13: thanks
[10:24] <f13> stahnma: a big problem is that releng definitely isn't
going to know immediately that "this came from EPEL"
[10:24] <wwoods> that's mikem23
[10:24] <f13> stahnma: most often we just get a ticket that asks us to
create a branch for them for a package, and that's it.
[10:25] <f13> it's really up to the developer asking for the package
to note that it came from EPEL
[10:25] <quaid> oh, interesting
[10:26] <stahnma> well, I guess we'd like it if came from EPEL
[10:26] <stahnma> but, either way
[10:26] <quaid> ok, I'll ask them to help us figure out a process then
[10:26] <stahnma> ok moving on?
[10:27] <quaid> ok
[10:27] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Marketing
Reports: | all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc".
[10:27] <stahnma> anybody got anything to add here?
[10:28] <quaid> I think so ...
[10:28] <quaid> good time to talk about branding?
[10:28] <nirik> stahnma: thats the 'who's joined, new packages'
reports? or something else?
[10:29] * quaid waits a second to be sure ...
[10:30] <stahnma> could be
[10:30] <stahnma> or maybe some formal marketing
[10:30] <quaid> ok, then I'll go on with a branding discussion
starter, if no one minds.
[10:31] <quaid> so ... I won't be as blunt as gregdek, but the brand
"EPEL" is ... difficult
[10:31] * nirik nods, go ahead
[10:31] <quaid> i. acronyms for names suck
[10:31] <quaid> ii. how do you pronounce it?  (cf. smooge and I
"arguing" at FUDCon)
[10:31] <quaid> iii. decode before understanding == bad
[10:31] <quaid> so
[10:31] <stahnma> I wondered that too
[10:32] <-- wolfy has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[10:32] <quaid> this ties in to the fact that
[10:32] <stahnma> so we need a new name/brand?
[10:32] <nirik> I really don't care what the name is... I'm fine with whatever
[10:32] <-- fraggle_ has left this server ("-ENOBRAIN").
[10:32] <quaid> gregdek and I are working with the Red Hat Exchange
(RHX) folks about getting more and more ISVs in to Fedora, with EPEL
being a prime interest area
[10:32] <quaid> so we are working on some materials to take to OSCON ...
[10:32] <nirik> we just couldn't come up with anything aside from
EPEL... so we went with that
[10:32] <quaid> and wondered if there is time to come up with a new name?
[10:32] <quaid> nirik: +1 that was the right thing for us to do
[10:33] --> JSchmitt has joined this channel
(n=s4504kr at p4FDD23D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de).
[10:33] <quaid> and now that RHT branding folks are around to help, we
can go back and do a naming exercise
[10:33] <quaid> cf. Fedora Nightlife, Spacewalk, and others of recent vintage.
[10:33] <nirik> sounds great to me... go for it.
[10:33] <quaid> awesome :)
[10:33] <stahnma> yeah, quaid keep us posted on that
[10:33] <quaid> will do!
[10:34] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Standing
Issues: EPEL-announce list | all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc".
[10:34] * stahnma just moves topics....maybe too quickly
[10:34] <stahnma> oh well
[10:34] <-- che has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
[10:35] <nirik> I like the idea of an announce list...
[10:35] <stahnma> I like the idea of an announce-list, but I don't
know if it would really add value to most users
[10:35] <stahnma> most RHEL users don't use mailing lists
[10:35] <stahnma> or IRC
[10:35] <stahnma> or belong to the Fedora community
[10:35] <stahnma> at least, that's my observation
[10:35] <stahnma> I mean, I guess it would help, because somebody
could point them to it.
[10:36] <nirik> yeah, but at least we would have a place to point peopel
[10:36] <stahnma> but I don't know if people would just jump on
[10:36] <stahnma> i know most sysadmins already complain about too much mail
[10:36] <stahnma> but, I think having it is probably a good idea
[10:36] <stahnma> make it moderated?
[10:36] <quaid> +1 moderated
[10:37] <nirik> yes, +1 moderated.
[10:37] <nirik> and very low traffic.
[10:37] <quaid> what if we offer to subscribe nahant-list and
$RHEL5_name-list to the announce list?
[10:37] <nirik> not even sure we would want new push announcements
there... or just serious breakage stuff.
[10:38] --> fraggle_ has joined this channel
(n=fraggle at bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net).
[10:38] <stahnma> I would say probably breakage
[10:38] <stahnma> and maybe big stack updates or something
[10:39] <stahnma> something that could potentially have a huge impact
[10:39] <nirik> yeah, that sounds reasonable to me.
[10:39] <stahnma> so do we request a list from mmcgrath, or somewhere at RH ?
[10:39] <nirik> stahnma: infrastructure ticket I think...
[10:39] <stahnma> ok
[10:39] <stahnma> nirik: you want to take that one?
[10:39] <nirik> do we want it to be a @redhat.com? or a fedoraproject one?
[10:40] <nirik> sure, I can do that.
[10:40] <stahnma> hmm
[10:40] <stahnma> what gives it more credability for RHEL users?
[10:40] * stahnma personally would rather it be fedoraproject
[10:40] <nirik> althought... perhaps we wait until the branding is
done? so we don't have to try and rename 'epel-announce' to something
else?
[10:40] <-- balor has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[10:40] <stahnma> good point
[10:40] <stahnma> we hold?
[10:41] <-- kital has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[10:41] <nirik> yeah, lets revisit next week...
[10:41] <nirik> quaid: when might branding discussion happen? soon?
[10:41] <quaid> yeah, just revisit week by week
[10:41] <SmootherFrOgZ> i would say an @fedoraproject; it's a fedora projet
[10:41] <stahnma> ok, we'll move on
[10:41] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Free
discussion around EPEL".
[10:41] <quaid> nirik: ASAP; I'm going to try to get John Adams on
f-epel-d-l right away to lead the discussion with us.
[10:41] <knurd> is there anything you guys need me for?
[10:41] * knurd has to leave now
[10:42] * nirik also has to go here asap... need to move my car out of
the way so some people can get out.
[10:42] * SmootherFrOgZ is leaving too
[10:42] <-- SmootherFrOgZ has left this server ("leaving").
[10:42] <stahnma> hmm
[10:42] <stahnma> free discussion means exit ;)
[10:43] <stahnma> so has the stable vs unstable been resolved?
[10:43] <stahnma> should we bring it up next time?
[10:43] --> mdomsch has joined this channel
(n=Matt_Dom at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com).
[10:43] <nirik> if you like... I personally like the way it is now.
[10:43] <knurd> nirik, +1
[10:43] <stahnma> me too
[10:43] <knurd> we have enought work and things on the todo list already
[10:43] * nirik goes to move car... back on from the road in a while.
[10:44] <stahnma> ok, I'll leave it on the agenda for one more disucssion
[10:44] <stahnma> but, it's probably squashed
[10:44] * knurd now afk
[10:44] <knurd> have fun
[10:44] <stahnma> ok, anybody from the floor or peanut gallery have anything?
[10:44] <schlobinux> it would be nice to get the unresolved deps
cleared from testing and testing cleared
[10:44] <stahnma> schlobinux: yes, it would
[10:45] <schlobinux> maybe bugs needs to be filed to get more
attention from the owners
[10:45] <stahnma> we've been working on that some, but not as much as
we should have
[10:45] <stahnma> schlobinux: +1
[10:45] <schlobinux> (but even a bug is not enough sometime)
[10:45] <schlobinux> the rt3 package still suffer from the git bug
[10:45] <-- mbacovsk_ has left this server (Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)).
[10:45] <stahnma> well, I can start by filing some bugs
[10:46] <stahnma> it can't hurt
[10:46] <jwb> what git bug?
[10:46] <schlobinux> jwb: missing cvsps dep
[10:46] <schlobinux> lemme dig out the bug number
[10:47] <stahnma> hmm, I have git installing fine on EL5 at least....
[10:47] <schlobinux> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=453333
[10:47] <buggbot> Bug 453333: low, low, ---, Chris Wright, NEW ,
git-cvs requires cvsps which is not available in EPEL
[10:47] <stahnma> oh, git-cvs
[10:47] <jwb> so rt3 requires git-cvs?
[10:47] <jwb> or?
[10:48] <schlobinux> this is not really harmful in itself, but the git
packages cannot be moved out of testing
[10:48] <jwb> are the ACLs open on git?
[10:49] <schlobinux> the git packages in testing are fixing a bug that
impacts rt3
[10:50] <-- sdziallas has left this server (Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)).
[10:50] <schlobinux> yes, ACLs are open
[10:50] --> sdziallas has joined this channel
(n=sebastia at p57A2D697.dip.t-dialin.net).
[10:51] <jwb> feel free to fix it then.  i don't even have plague
setup and it think jbowes is particularly busy right now
[10:51] <schlobinux> I'm not sure if the proper fix is to remove the
dep or to build cvsps for EPEL
[10:51] <jwb> remove the dep
[10:51] <schlobinux> ok, fine by me, will do
[10:51] <jwb> i think the same was done for git-arch a while back
[10:52] <stahnma> any other discussion?
[10:52] * stahnma will close the meeting in 20
[10:52] <jwb> how is the koji for epel progress coming?
[10:52] <jwb> (sorry if you covered that already)
[10:52] <stahnma> we didn't have many updates
[10:53] <stahnma> (or any)
[10:53] <stahnma> I think it will improve in the near future
[10:53] <jwb> cool
[10:54] <stahnma> -- MARK -- Meeting end
[10:54] *** You set the channel topic to "Channel is used by various
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meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please
ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for
meeting schedule".