[Ambassadors] Fedora Ambassadors (FAmSCo) Meeting - 2008-02-29 - IRC Log

[John Babich]

Feb 29 23:03:21 <fugolini>	good, i think we can start
Feb 29 23:03:29 *	spevack just got out of his previous meeting
Feb 29 23:03:41 <fugolini>	Please call roll:
Feb 29 23:03:50 <fugolini>	FrancescoUgolini
Feb 29 23:03:53 <RodrigoPadula>	fugolini: rodrigopadula at gmail.com =
Gtalk ocarado102 at msn.com = MESSENGER
Feb 29 23:03:58 <jmbuser>	JohnBabich
Feb 29 23:03:59 <spevack>	MaxSpevack
Feb 29 23:04:00 <iWolf>	JeffreyTadlock
Feb 29 23:04:01 <AndreasR>	Andreas Rau
Feb 29 23:04:09 <RodrigoPadula>	Rodrigo Padula
Feb 29 23:04:38 <fugolini>	Good, we are enough :)
Feb 29 23:04:51 <fugolini>	First of all: Meeting Agenda
Feb 29 23:05:07 <fugolini>	1.  Chair comunications
Feb 29 23:05:17 <fugolini>	2. Max comunications
Feb 29 23:05:43 <fugolini>	3. other questions (if we will have time)
Feb 29 23:05:57 <fugolini>	ok, first issue
Feb 29 23:06:06 <fugolini>	I will be brief.
Feb 29 23:06:41 <fugolini>	As you read we will have weekly meeting,
instead of biweekly
Feb 29 23:07:55 <fugolini>	ones, so we will try to organize ourselves
to help people who have time problem to join them at least two times a
month
Feb 29 23:08:08 <fugolini>	Have you questions?
Feb 29 23:08:29 <fugolini>	I think all it's clear we will discuss, if
it would be necessary, in the list
Feb 29 23:08:31 <iWolf>	?
Feb 29 23:08:39 <fugolini>	iWolf:
Feb 29 23:08:48 <iWolf>	It is going to be Friday?
Feb 29 23:08:51 <iWolf>	eof
Feb 29 23:09:46 <fugolini>	We could rotate from friday to another day
(please visit FAmSCo meeting calendar to add your preferences)
Feb 29 23:10:13 <fugolini>	But i think i took a lot of time, now i
think we have to hear what Max has to say. eof
Feb 29 23:10:16 <fugolini>	spevack:
Feb 29 23:10:29 <spevack>	ok, well i have probably a few things to say
Feb 29 23:10:36 <spevack>	so feel free to just jump in any time with
questions or comments
Feb 29 23:10:51 <spevack>	I ask myself "what is the best service that
FAMSCO can provide to the Ambassadors community"
Feb 29 23:11:00 <spevack>	and i ask myself
Feb 29 23:11:11 <spevack>	what are the opportunities that famsco has
*today* that it did not have one year ago
Feb 29 23:11:31 <spevack>	one of the things that I have always wanted
famsco to take an active leadership role in
Feb 29 23:11:46 <spevack>	has been directly giving resources to local
ambassadors
Feb 29 23:11:56 <spevack>	and then holding those ambassadors
accountable for how they use those resources
Feb 29 23:12:01 <spevack>	in the past, this was very difficult
Feb 29 23:12:06 <spevack>	there was limited budget
Feb 29 23:12:11 <spevack>	and all of that budget kind of went through me.
Feb 29 23:12:19 <spevack>	Now, many of these problems have gone away
Feb 29 23:12:30 <spevack>	So I would like to start by talking about
the "Ambassadors and Events" budget for the coming year
Feb 29 23:12:36 <spevack>	and make sure that all of FAMSCO understands it
Feb 29 23:13:00 <spevack>	*then* we can talk about how we will (a)
maximize the usage of that budget and (b) how we will "prove" that we
generated value for Fedora from that budget
Feb 29 23:13:03 <spevack>	any questions so far?
Feb 29 23:13:24 <spevack>	ok
Feb 29 23:13:29 <fugolini>	go on, i'm understanding
Feb 29 23:13:29 <spevack>	everyone go here
Feb 29 23:13:29
<spevack>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses
Feb 29 23:13:50 <spevack>	there are several line items in that budget
that DIRECTLY impact Ambassadors
Feb 29 23:14:03 *	mdomsch has quit ("Leaving")
Feb 29 23:14:04 <spevack>	The first are the "large events" that we
specifically make separate entries for
Feb 29 23:14:11 <spevack>	FUDCon @ Red Hat Summit in Boston
Feb 29 23:14:17 <spevack>	Large FUDCon in Europe
Feb 29 23:14:26 <spevack>	Fedora @ Linux Conf .AU
Feb 29 23:14:32 <spevack>	Fedora @ FISL in Brazil
Feb 29 23:14:35 <spevack>	Fedora @ LinuxTag
Feb 29 23:14:38 <spevack>	Fedora @ FOSDEM
Feb 29 23:14:48 <spevack>	The role of FAMSCO here is relatively straightforward
Feb 29 23:15:01 <spevack>	(1) Ensure that there are *local* teams that
take the organizational responsibility for these events
Feb 29 23:15:07 <spevack>	For things like LinuxTag, this is done.
Feb 29 23:15:18 <spevack>	For things like FISL, we have guys like
Rodrigo who have taken leadership roles.
Feb 29 23:15:29 <spevack>	For something like Linux Conf .AU, the
"local leader" is less clear
Feb 29 23:15:41 <spevack>	and identifying people and empowering those
people is something FAMSCO can help with.
Feb 29 23:15:56 <spevack>	In *each case*, someone from the Red Hat
Community Architecture team is also responsible for helping to make
this happen.
Feb 29 23:16:10 <spevack>	The Red Hat community architecture team is
me, Greg DeKoenigsberg, and Jack Aboutboul.
Feb 29 23:16:23 <spevack>	Greg is focusing on Latin America -- he has
been working with David barzilay and Rodrigo about FISL
Feb 29 23:16:29 <spevack>	My focus is going to be on Europe
Feb 29 23:16:52 <spevack>	in fact, Red Hat will be moving me to live
in Europe so that I can devote myself entirely to being the community
leader and community builder for Fedora and Red Hat in EMEA.
Feb 29 23:17:19 <spevack>	The Asia community is less clear -- there
are a number of people in that region who have lots of energy -- and
one of our challenges will be to make sure the budget for Linux Conf
.aU is well spent
Feb 29 23:17:19 <warren>	spevack, wow
Feb 29 23:17:27 <spevack>	but that is all i want to say about the big
shows right now
Feb 29 23:17:31 <EvilBob>	Rock On Max!
Feb 29 23:17:38 <spevack>	a second area where FAMSCO can be a *HUGE
HELP* is in the line item that says
Feb 29 23:17:44 <spevack>	"Global Events and Swag"
Feb 29 23:17:56 <spevack>	the budget for this item is modest -- $12k
USD per quarter
Feb 29 23:18:07 <spevack>	but that is still *much more* than we have
ever had to spend on general global event coverage than before.
Feb 29 23:18:15 <spevack>	in *my* opinion
Feb 29 23:18:34 <fugolini>	you are right
Feb 29 23:18:38 <spevack>	our goal should be to make sure that the
FedoraEvents page is as complete as it can be, and that every single
event on that page receives some level of support from FAMSCO
Feb 29 23:18:43 <spevack>	Famsco's job is
Feb 29 23:19:00 <spevack>	(1) identify a leader for each event --
again, the focus should always be on empowering local people to
organize
Feb 29 23:19:27 <spevack>	(2) figuirng out the level of resources that
each event needs, and *balancing* those requests to map to the budget
that we have set aside
Feb 29 23:19:37 <spevack>	*this* is the area that we have always
failed at before
Feb 29 23:19:55 <spevack>	FAMSCo could never make decisions of "Event
A is more important than Event B" because it was never clear what the
total budget was
Feb 29 23:20:10 <RodrigoPadula>	!
Feb 29 23:20:11 <spevack>	But now it is clear -- $12k per quarter for
everything that is not otherwise noted
Feb 29 23:20:17 <spevack>	I'll stop now and take questions -- my fingers hurt
Feb 29 23:20:23 <fugolini>	RodrigoPadula:
Feb 29 23:20:36 <RodrigoPadula>	in Brazil we have a lot of bi regional events
Feb 29 23:21:07 <RodrigoPadula>	one in the Amazonic states ....
another in the Northeast
Feb 29 23:21:16 <RodrigoPadula>	Central
Feb 29 23:21:23 <RodrigoPadula>	and South = FISL
Feb 29 23:21:44 <RodrigoPadula>	in october or november we will have
tha Latinoware
Feb 29 23:21:56 <RodrigoPadula>	a Latin American big event in FOz do
Iguacu - Brazil
Feb 29 23:22:21 <spevack>	RodrigoPadula: are all of those on the
FedoraEvents page?
Feb 29 23:22:27 <RodrigoPadula>	yes
Feb 29 23:22:46 <RodrigoPadula>	in this year i would like to realize
the II Latin American Ambassadors and Users Conference
Feb 29 23:23:11 <spevack>	i think that is all excellent.
Feb 29 23:23:28 <jmbuser>	+1
Feb 29 23:23:28 <RodrigoPadula>	i have support from the event
organization for 4 Latin american Ambassador (probably Argentina,
Chile, Venezuela, Mexico)
Feb 29 23:23:39 <RodrigoPadula>	and for 2 Brazilian Ambassador
Feb 29 23:24:00 <RodrigoPadula>	including: hotel, air tickets and others
Feb 29 23:24:23 <RodrigoPadula>	so, can we add this event in the BIG
EVENTS LIST ?
Feb 29 23:24:44 <fugolini>	With the same budget for each one?
Feb 29 23:24:45 <spevack>	RodrigoPadula: here is what we can and should do
Feb 29 23:25:06 <RodrigoPadula>	we need budget to booth, midias and
others stuffs like banners, flyers
Feb 29 23:25:26 <spevack>	(1) the "big events list" for this year has
been set.  It is what you see.  But, I think it is in the best
interest of *all Fedora Ambassadors* to have FAMSCO take the $12k USD
for "global events and swag" and turn that into a more specific list
Feb 29 23:25:35 <spevack>	much in the same way the engineers do
Feb 29 23:25:37 <spevack>	for the
Feb 29 23:25:39 <RodrigoPadula>	in my opinio... the LATINOWARE is most
important local event in South America
Feb 29 23:25:41 <spevack>	features that go into Fedora
Feb 29 23:25:43 <RodrigoPadula>	more than FISL
Feb 29 23:25:54 <spevack>	RodrigoPadula: i wish you had told us that long ago :)
Feb 29 23:26:05 <spevack>	FAMSCO needs to say:
Feb 29 23:26:08 <spevack>	in public
Feb 29 23:26:11 <spevack>	to all ambassadors
Feb 29 23:26:18 <RodrigoPadula>	is the same
Feb 29 23:26:20 <spevack>	"here is the money we have to spend"
Feb 29 23:26:24 <RodrigoPadula>	like 5.000
Feb 29 23:26:26 <spevack>	and we will make our decisions based on the
FedoraEvents page
Feb 29 23:26:43 <spevack>	does that make sense?
Feb 29 23:26:49 <RodrigoPadula>	ok
Feb 29 23:26:52 <fugolini>	yes, i really agree with you
Feb 29 23:26:54 <spevack>	FAMSCO's job is to (1) prioritize events
Feb 29 23:27:04 <spevack>	(2) resource those events based on priority
Feb 29 23:27:13 <spevack>	(3) determine the metrics that are used to
judge whether an event was successful or not
Feb 29 23:27:25 <spevack>	(4) learn from the current year when it
comes time to plan for the next year
Feb 29 23:27:35 <spevack>	(5) Always seek to put accountability into
the hands of Local Ambassadors
Feb 29 23:27:48 <spevack>	we have separate meetings now for North
America, Europe, etc.
Feb 29 23:27:54 <spevack>	FAMSCO must tie those all together.
Feb 29 23:27:59 <spevack>	EOF
Feb 29 23:28:14 <fugolini>	great
Feb 29 23:28:39 <jmbuser>	+1
Feb 29 23:28:41 <fugolini>	Have you qestions (before mine)?
Feb 29 23:28:56 <RodrigoPadula>	eof
Feb 29 23:29:10 <spevack>	well
Feb 29 23:29:12 <spevack>	my last comment is
Feb 29 23:29:32 <spevack>	what we are going to do week by week to
achieve those 5 goals.
Feb 29 23:29:44 <spevack>	but that is actually dividing up work.
first we must agree on the goals :)
Feb 29 23:29:59 <fugolini>	i want to ask just few things about this plan:
Feb 29 23:30:40 <spevack>	go ahead
Feb 29 23:30:54 <fugolini>	the parameters we will use to prioritize
will be decided by FAmSCo,
Feb 29 23:31:49 <fugolini>	after we have to make metrics
Feb 29 23:32:03 <fugolini>	with those ones.
Feb 29 23:32:11 <fugolini>	*we will
Feb 29 23:32:16 <fugolini>	it's right?
Feb 29 23:32:40 <fugolini>	because to make metrics we need some parameters
Feb 29 23:32:47 <fugolini>	eof
Feb 29 23:32:50 <spevack>	the question we must ask is this:
Feb 29 23:33:02 <spevack>	if we spend any amount of money to go to
hold a fedora event
Feb 29 23:33:04 <spevack>	anywhere in the world
Feb 29 23:33:09 <spevack>	what did we get out of it?
Feb 29 23:33:21 <spevack>	if people come to our booth, take a CD,
leave, and never even install Fedora
Feb 29 23:33:24 <spevack>	then it was a waste
Feb 29 23:33:30 <spevack>	if a few people install Fedora, then there
is minimal value
Feb 29 23:33:40 <spevack>	if we can make even 1 person *passionate*
enough about fedora
Feb 29 23:33:56 <spevack>	that they want to join our community and
move from being a *consumer* to a *producer* then we are beginning to
be successful
Feb 29 23:34:00 <spevack>	similarly
Feb 29 23:34:11 <RodrigoPadula>	+1
Feb 29 23:34:18 <spevack>	there is huge value, in my opinion, to
having a few larger events that are used as a place for all Fedora
people in a region to come toger
Feb 29 23:34:22 <spevack>	er, together.
Feb 29 23:34:27 <spevack>	things like FUDcon or Fedora Ambassador Days
Feb 29 23:34:35 <spevack>	the *positive energy* generated at those events
Feb 29 23:34:41 <spevack>	is the energey that keeps the community going
Feb 29 23:34:46 <fugolini>	yep
Feb 29 23:34:59 <spevack>	but in short, Francesco
Feb 29 23:35:01 *	ldimaggi_ (n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-291c7c0c6ce91645)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 29 23:35:09 <spevack>	if someone says "I want $1000 for event Foo"
Feb 29 23:35:17 <spevack>	we need to know what they intend to "get"
for their $1000
Feb 29 23:35:30 <spevack>	and how they will demonstrate that it was a
good decision for us to give it.
Feb 29 23:35:38 <spevack>	and this is the same thing that I face
Feb 29 23:35:43 <spevack>	to get the budget from Red Hat
Feb 29 23:36:03 <spevack>	if I cannot go back at the end of the year
and prove the value of doing all these things, then they will say
"what is the point of having max here?" :)
Feb 29 23:36:17 <fugolini>	ok, i understood :)
Feb 29 23:36:28 <RodrigoPadula>	+1
Feb 29 23:36:31 <spevack>	this is why Event Reports are so important to me
Feb 29 23:37:22 <RodrigoPadula>	can you  create a Report Template for this ?
Feb 29 23:38:09 <spevack>	I would like someone to ask the community
"if you are the leader of an event, what is the way that you want to
report back to the community the results of that event"
Feb 29 23:38:15 <spevack>	and a "report template" will come out of
that discussion
Feb 29 23:38:16 <RodrigoPadula>	so, i can send to you all report from
past to tje future events
Feb 29 23:38:20 <fugolini>	i was working on a "video" guide for
ambassadors, one of the topic i want to explain is how to make a good
report
Feb 29 23:38:23 <spevack>	does someone want to take this action item?
Feb 29 23:39:04 <fugolini>	i think it would better to list all the tasks
Feb 29 23:39:12 <spevack>	fugolini: ok.
Feb 29 23:39:15 <fugolini>	thanks
Feb 29 23:39:31 <spevack>	so maybe i should say "are there more
questions on what i have said. or should we move on to other topics so
i don't steal the whole meeting?"
Feb 29 23:39:45 *	DanseMakabre (i=pat at bobo.ds5.agh.edu.pl) has joined
#fedora-meeting
Feb 29 23:40:16 <jmbuser>	!
Feb 29 23:40:18 <fugolini>	go on
Feb 29 23:40:23 <AndreasR>	thanks max, for me the next option is fine
Feb 29 23:40:26 <fugolini>	jmbuser:
Feb 29 23:41:19 <jmbuser>	spevack: What I understand is that this part
of the push (which I think is a good thing) t measure what can be
measured, am I right?
Feb 29 23:41:34 <spevack>	jmbuser: yes
Feb 29 23:41:38 <spevack>	the way i see it
Feb 29 23:41:48 <spevack>	in the past year we had enough budget to do
"a few things"
Feb 29 23:41:59 <spevack>	now we have argued for several times that budget
Feb 29 23:42:11 <fab_a>	hi guys
Feb 29 23:42:18 <spevack>	but with that additional money comes a
requirement to be more rigorous in determining how well we are
spending the money :)
Feb 29 23:42:29 <jmbuser>	spevack: agreed
Feb 29 23:42:30 <spevack>	but doing it in a way that is palatable to
the community
Feb 29 23:43:16 <jmbuser>	spevack: That was my point - we have to
remember to keep the ideals of the community foremost in our minds at
the same time
Feb 29 23:43:29 <spevack>	jmbuser: Absolutely.
Feb 29 23:43:38 <spevack>	jmbuser: by accepting leadership roles in
the community
Feb 29 23:43:39 <jmbuser>	eof
Feb 29 23:43:41 *	wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 29 23:43:54 <fugolini>	we can move on
Feb 29 23:44:05 <spevack>	we have a responsibility to serve both the
community, but also to understand that Daddy Shadowman holds people
like me and Greg accountable
Feb 29 23:44:13 <spevack>	so the Fedora leaders are the bridge between the two
Feb 29 23:44:22 <spevack>	which is a hard job, but a rewarding one
Feb 29 23:45:11 <spevack>	may i say one more thing?
Feb 29 23:45:14 <spevack>	to all of you
Feb 29 23:45:16 <fugolini>	sure
Feb 29 23:45:21 <RodrigoPadula>	sure
Feb 29 23:45:25 <AndreasR>	sure
Feb 29 23:45:30 <jmbuser>	+1
Feb 29 23:45:34 <spevack>	I am very excited about the fact that
Ambassadors in general has more opportunities (because of more budget)
to do things all over the world this year
Feb 29 23:45:40 <spevack>	but one of the things i have been thinking a lot about
Feb 29 23:45:44 <spevack>	and worrying a lot about
Feb 29 23:46:06 <spevack>	is how we can do this in a way where power
and responsibility can be taken out of my hands and given directly to
you guys
Feb 29 23:46:13 <spevack>	i don't want to just sit here and say "here
is how it will be"
Feb 29 23:46:28 <spevack>	I want to help you guys build that
relationship with all of Fedor aambassadors worldwide
Feb 29 23:46:42 <spevack>	(it just so happens that part of my job will
be specifically to help out in Europe)
Feb 29 23:46:43 <spevack>	so i need you guys
Feb 29 23:46:50 <spevack>	to tell me the best way that I can be useful to you!
Feb 29 23:46:59 <spevack>	so far, all i have done is gotten a bunch more money
Feb 29 23:47:07 <spevack>	but i need you to tell me what i should do
with it, to some extent :)
Feb 29 23:47:18 <spevack>	EOF
Feb 29 23:47:23 <AndreasR>	+1
Feb 29 23:47:59 <fugolini>	Yes, i think you are right. Maybe we have
to make this relationship more durable than FAmSCo one, we stay on
charge only a year
Feb 29 23:48:05 <fugolini>	and we need continuity.
Feb 29 23:48:18 <RodrigoPadula>	+1\\
Feb 29 23:48:31 <fugolini>	Someone trusts on us but can we guarantee
for the future?
Feb 29 23:48:51 <fugolini>	i think we have to define strictly our jobs
into the FAmSCo
Feb 29 23:49:23 <fugolini>	but moreover if we
Feb 29 23:49:42 <fugolini>	will start this experience i think we will
have the attention of all community
Feb 29 23:50:00 <fugolini>	and the greatest people will be able to
distingush themselves
Feb 29 23:50:02 *	wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has left
#fedora-meeting ("I intend to live forever - so far, so good.")
Feb 29 23:50:38 <fugolini>	as you say we have to make our work clear
and i think people will help us
Feb 29 23:50:44 <RodrigoPadula>	this year will be  a great year for
Fedora In Brazil and in all Latin American, i will send more
informations at FAMSCO's list
Feb 29 23:51:34 <fugolini>	Max, i can assure that this FAmSCo will be
a good partner
Feb 29 23:51:58 <jmbuser>	+1
Feb 29 23:52:13 <fugolini>	today you give the course, now we have to
be able to follow this
Feb 29 23:52:28 <spevack>	fugolini: i have huge faith in all of you
Feb 29 23:52:41 <spevack>	we will work together
Feb 29 23:52:45 <spevack>	and work transparently with all ambassadors
Feb 29 23:53:39 <spevack>	fugolini: what is the next topic?
Feb 29 23:53:50 <fugolini>	we will continue the discussion over the
"tasks" in the M-L
Feb 29 23:53:58 <RodrigoPadula>	I am trying to represent well the
Fedora in latin america. We are developing and evolving throughout
America with a wide exchange of experiences!
Feb 29 23:53:58 <RodrigoPadula>	I am leading several initiatives and
ideas. I think they can be copied by many countries to create local
and regional communities
Feb 29 23:54:13 <fugolini>	Just to things
Feb 29 23:54:17 <fugolini>	*two
Feb 29 23:54:59 <fugolini>	1.
Feb 29 23:55:41 <fugolini>	fabian sent an email with some
Feb 29 23:56:07 *	gvarisco_ (n=gvarisco at nat/redhat/x-1c31cde41234ff73)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 29 23:56:18 <fugolini>	obsolete pages that we have to update,
personally i will try to update as more as possible but it's necessary
the help of the people
Feb 29 23:57:06 <fugolini>	2.
Feb 29 23:58:18 <fugolini>	For the Ambassadors Award we need some metrics before
Feb 29 23:58:46 <fugolini>	and i think the events metrics could be a
good base to make community metrics
Feb 29 23:59:23 <fugolini>	I know some people aren't happy to see
this, but it's a natural step for a project that it's evolving
Mar 01 00:00:02 <fugolini>	3. We will create the first poster with
Ambassadors Thougt
Mar 01 00:00:35 <fugolini>	now i have just to define with Nicubunu the
layout (he is helping me in this initiative).
Mar 01 00:00:52 *	gvarisco_ has quit (Client Quit)
Mar 01 00:01:17 <fugolini>	It would be better to see in each booth the
"Ambassadors Voice" poster (with cool graphics)
Mar 01 00:01:43 <fugolini>	Now it's your time, i think nothing is more
important than max issue
Mar 01 00:02:03 <fugolini>	i think the next meeting will be different
Mar 01 00:02:25 <fugolini>	if we consider the new way FAmSCo will assume
Mar 01 00:02:27 <spevack>	i would like us to use this week to think
about "concrete" tasks that we want to do with Ambassadors Project
Mar 01 00:02:36 <spevack>	talk on the mailing lists
Mar 01 00:02:44 <spevack>	and next week see what gets the most support
Mar 01 00:02:45 <fugolini>	sure, i'm just thinking :) (really)
Mar 01 00:02:48 <spevack>	and figure out how to implement it
Mar 01 00:03:20 *	spevack has fingers that hurt from so much typing
Mar 01 00:04:03 <fugolini>	good, i invite all FAmSCo members to send their ideas
Mar 01 00:05:05 *	fab_a is now known as fabian_a
Mar 01 00:05:06 <fugolini>	i think if nobody has something to say we
can adjourn the meeting
Mar 01 00:05:16 <fugolini>	3
Mar 01 00:05:23 <fugolini>	2
Mar 01 00:05:28 <spevack>	thank you all for coming
Mar 01 00:05:30 <fugolini>	1