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Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 26



Things only offend you if you let them, besides meanings often change.i.e the term 'broad band' original meaning applied to telco systems that use an analogue carrier, now erroneously applied to digital carriers. (but the twisting of meanings for marketing purposes is another issue)
I think that the modern meaning of a Zeus temple is a lot broader now than it was before. Kind of like an old abbey in England would have a different meaning now.

p.s if you worship ancient gods, well good on ya mate.  

--- On Sun, 15/3/09, fedora-art-list-request redhat com <fedora-art-list-request redhat com> wrote:
From: fedora-art-list-request redhat com <fedora-art-list-request redhat com>
Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 26
To: fedora-art-list redhat com
Received: Sunday, 15 March, 2009, 2:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

1. Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Jeff Spaleta)
2. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Martin Sourada)
3. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Jeff Spaleta)
4. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Paul W. Frields)
5. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (M?ir?n Duffy)
6. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (M?ir?n Duffy)
7. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Ian Weller)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:55:51 -0800
From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta gmail com>
Subject: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
<604aa7910903141155j392f4afcm8396c1697554f542 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the
wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your
consideration as a group.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html

"Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last
week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious
subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional
reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a
picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships
paganism"


To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture
specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been
raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm
bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction.

-jef



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:33:12 +0100
From: Martin Sourada <martin sourada gmail com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1237062792 11267 23 camel pc-notebook>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 10:55 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the
> wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your
> consideration as a group.
>
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html
>
> "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last
> week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious
> subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional
> reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a
> picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships
> paganism"
>
>
> To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture
> specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been
> raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm
> bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction.
>
> -jef

Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. There is vast difference
between you worshiping ancient Greece gods (not that it would be
something bad if you actually do) and having a huge Zeus' temple
wallpaper hanging on your wall, let alone the wallpaper in your PC
(which you can promptly change if you disagree with the content)... Come
on, we have names of months named after ancient Rome gods (and important
people) and it still does not say anything about our beliefs. While I
agree we should stay away from political references, subtle cultural
references are IMHO good and bring Fedora to "next level" in this
aspect.

Martin
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:13:43 -0800
From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta gmail com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
<604aa7910903141413k7022168eqce852ca173dd7d40 mail gmail com>
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2009/3/14 Martin Sourada <martin sourada gmail com>:
> Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there.

I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the
reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea
that "reasoning" is ever a part of an "emotional" response.
I'm
pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know
of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural
sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing.

I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion
response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in
the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because
I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the
danger to humanity that they really are....yet. Such pastoral views
of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of
these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our
ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I
digress...

We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You
might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey
emotionally...if its worth talking about at all.


-jef



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:29:32 -0400
From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster gmail com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: fedora-art-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20090314222932 GG19452 localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 01:13:43PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> 2009/3/14 Martin Sourada <martin sourada gmail com>:
> > Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there.
>
> I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the
> reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea
> that "reasoning" is ever a part of an "emotional"
response. I'm
> pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know
> of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural
> sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing.
>
> I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion
> response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in
> the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because
> I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the
> danger to humanity that they really are....yet. Such pastoral views
> of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of
> these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our
> ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I
> digress...

OK, thanks for that digression, Tippi. ;-)

> We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You
> might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey
> emotionally...if its worth talking about at all.

I'm not sure it is -- but the conveyance as far as I know is simply to
acknowledge the heritage of the "Leonidas" name. Any other inference
is probably a stretch.

--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: M?ir?n Duffy <mairin linuxgrrl com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <518191 96829 qm web50902 mail re2 yahoo com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hello Jeff,

Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention -



----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta gmail com>
> To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:55:51 PM
> Subject: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
>
> I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the
> wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your
> consideration as a group.
>
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html
>
> "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last
> week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious
> subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional
> reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a
> picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships
> paganism"
>
>
> To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture
> specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been
> raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm
> bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction.

I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We
need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we
must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let
something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you
it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands
here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation:

First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named "Paul" in
charge of something? "Paul" is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy,
right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any
possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating
system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. Máirín -
sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but
it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we
have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has
religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud.

Then, we've got this other problem. See, we have this color
"blue" that symbolizes Fedora. This is a MAJOR problem, check this
out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue#Religion - Not only is blue an important,
symbolic color in the Hindu religion, but it's also an important color in
Judaism! We've got a major, major problem here. As soon as I'm stated as
the new Fedora project leader, I will change the official Fedora color to blah
grey, because that can't possibly symbolize ANYTHING.

In fact, I think we need to cancel the Fedora art team. From now on, all of our
artwork will just be blah grey-colored squares. We just can't risk offending
anyone. Done and done!

Ahhhh! Oh, my go... er, erm whoah whoah Nelly there! I *really* mean, oh my
"gads"! I just realized, this is way bigger a problem than we
originally thought. This goes way beyond Fedora. Check this out:

- The New York Public Library:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72131699 N00/238786611/ (They featured this
building in Spiderman! The insensitive, incendiary clods! This is supposed to be
a library! A place of higher learning! Above religion! It's indelibly marked
with religious conflict all over it! It looks JUST LIKE A TEMPLE. How could I
not have seen this before????)

- The White House: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kathleen-andersen/237167863/
(There go those Americans again, stirring up deeply-rooted religious strife by
making their president's accomodations resemble a Greek temple! So much for
the separation of church and state!)

- apple.com - these computers are swiftly gaining popularity. We have to stop
this scourge. I mean, clearly "Apple" is a reference to a Biblical
passage involving a garden and snakes and naked people and that sort of thing.
How offensive!

- Battlestar Galactica - they've got this kind of chorus-y hymn-sounding
chanting for a theme song. Kind of like religious chanting! They are obviously
broadcasting subliminal religious messages. Good thing you brought this
conspiracy up. Now we can warn the good people of the world!

I'm just too distraught to carry on. I feel like my entire world is full of
these things symbolizing other things, and I'm finding myself strangely
offended by everything. Like the crown molding along the ceiling of my
apartment, which now looks like the columns of a temple. Or the weave pattern in
the rug beneath my feet, which seems to contain some hidden heathen message.
Crap. I'm typing this all on a computer with FEDORA on it, with a blue
Fedora logo in the upper left corner and that horrible, awful religious
wallpaper. My palms are tingling. I'm going to go run to the kitchen and
scrub them with a Brillo pad... oh crap, those are blue aren't they. Bleach!
I'll scrub them with bleach. Wait isn't the color white symbolic of the
afterlife? Well... I'm just going to drop the laptop now and run as far away
as I can.

Stay safe!

~m







------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: M?ir?n Duffy <mairin linuxgrrl com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <986551 97271 qm web50910 mail re2 yahoo com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


----- Original Message ----

> From: Máirín Duffy <mairin linuxgrrl com>
> To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
>
>
> Hello Jeff,
>
> Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention -

Oh crap, I just realized my reply might be OFFENSIVE. Crap. No humor or satire
allowed in Fedora either!

~m







------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:59:54 -0500
From: Ian Weller <ianweller gmail com>
Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20090315005954 GO24283 gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 05:52:58PM -0700, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta gmail com>
> >
> > I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning
the
> > wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your
> > consideration as a group.
> >
> >
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html
> >
> > "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced
last
> > week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious
> > subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional
> > reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a
> > picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus
worships
> > paganism"
> >
> >
> > To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture
> > specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been
> > raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But
I'm
> > bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction.
>
> I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this.
We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors,
we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let
something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you
it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands
here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation:
>
> First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named "Paul"
in charge of something? "Paul" is one of the apostles of that Jesus
guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have
any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating
system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. Máirín -
sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but
it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we
have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has
religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud.
[snip]
>
> Stay safe!
>
I would like to take this moment to ask everyone to stop this thread
right here before it goes any more crazy/sarcastic/ballistic. Thanks!

--
Ian Weller <ianweller gmail com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work
yet."
~ Douglas Adams
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