ESR "fedora-submit"

[Eric S. Raymond]

Konstantin Ryabitsev <icon at fedoraproject.org>:
> On 12/24/06, Michael Tiemann <tiemann at redhat.com> wrote:
> >Konstantin--how many packages do you maintain?  I think that rather than
> >sniping at a would-be contributor, I'd like to see somebody who is
> >maintaining at least 30, and perhaps 50 packages explain how *they* do
> >it.  Maybe they have a better way.  Maybe it drives them almost as crazy
> >Eric.  How *does* a maintainer of 36 packages would with the Fedora
> >process?  How *should* one do it?  This is the question and the problem
> >to be solved.
> 
> I maintain a very small number -- only 15. From my own experience, I
> can tell you that work spent actually doing something with spec files
> is negligeable compared to how much effort is spent tracking what is
> going on with a project, doing test builds and verifying that they
> work, running rpmlint, responding to bugzilla requests, opening
> upstream bugzilla requests for bugs filed with a package, monitoring
> cvs commits to see if someone was "messing" with your projects, etc.

I already do all of these things except running rpmlint.  They're 
part of being a project lead.  I'd be happy to add running rpmlint
to my process.

> You can't script that. If project "a" releases a "point update" to
> "1.1.2" from "1.1.1," it's not enough to run "make new-sources". You
> have to read the Changelog to see why they have issued this update
> (security? rush it through. fixes for solaris builds? whatever, ignore
> it). You then have to spend a few days just monitoring the list to see
> if there is an "oh shit, that release breaks something" moment --
> those tend to happen frequently.

Yes, this sounds very familiar.

>                          Only then, after a few days, you get
> to actually run "make new-sources", run a test mock build, run rpmlint
> against the packages, then copy sources, .cvsignore, foo.spec into
> FC-5 and devel. CVS commit, make tag, make build.
>
> Can it be scripted? I have no doubt. Will that actually be solving any
> problems? I don't think so.

With respect, sir, I decline to substitute your speculation for my
experience.  At 36 projects I find that the mechanical overhead of
manual point releases drives me batshit.  I've written a tool called
'shipper' to avoid it; you can download it from my site.  What I want
to be able to do is add a channel to shipper that lets me script-ship
to Fedora the way it presently can to Freshmeat and my own website.

>              The integral part of caring for fedora
> packages is the human element -- making sure that you don't commit
> something broken.

I don't disagree.  But I also don't understand why you think this
is relevant to my complaint.  When I've done all my QA, passed all
ny regression tests, test-built my RPM and done everything I know
how to do to ensure I don't ship a broken release, I want to be 
able to push a button and *go*.  There's no virtue in my having
to remember details or perform rituals by hand at that point.

> Sure, I don't have "36 projects" -- I don't even have catchy 3 letters
> to go by, but I assure you that I keep just as busy.

Ouch.  Please don't blame me for "ESR" -- people hung that on me by 
analogy with "RMS" and I've never been entirely comfortable with it.
As I note on my Slashdot profile, I didn't ask to be triletterized, 
I merely found that my role left me unable to escape it.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>