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Re: Fedora Freedom and linux-libre



jeff wrote:
Hans de Goede wrote:
jeff wrote:
Hans de Goede wrote:
Really, arguing that Fedora's stance is inconsistent, while in reality yours is doesn't gain you much respect. Either:

1) all firmware is software and must be free in which case support for evil hardware which comes with the firmware embedded must be removed from linux-libre!

No, because the goal of linux-libre is to have a kernel which doesn't distribute non-free software.


Oh, but promoting the usage and buying of devices which contain non-free firmware by supporting those is ok,

When have I ever done that??? You're just putting words in my mouth.


Try reading my sentence again "promoting ... by supporting", as the kernel-libre package still supports hardware that contains non free firmware it is promoting the use of that hardware by _supporting_ that hardware.

because it isn't non-free firmware that is evil. It is the distributing of non-free firmware that is evil. Yes a very consistent and logical pov for which I applaud you!

I have never used the word evil wrt software. Again, you are putting words in my mouth.


Evil is indeed my choice of words, I use it as a nice short way to describe everything wrong with non-free software, nothing more and nothing less.

Basicly the message you are sending is: people please by devices with firmware in rom, preferably otp rom, because then certainly there is no evil.

That's the message I'm sending?>?!? Again, you're just putting words in my mouth. I've never said anything of the sort.


Well, you want Fedora to change so that it will only work out of the box with devices which have the firmware in rom, so yes that is the message you are sending.

We're talking about



   *  *  * SOFTWARE THE FEDORA PROJECT IS ---> DISTRIBUTING <--- *  *  *


That is one vision, another vision is we are talking about a bunch of bits,
which are part of the hardware. In some cases these bits which are part of the hardware happen to be stored in a non-volatile storage on the hardware and put on a non-volatile medium which is not physically part of the hardware, in these cases the operating system needs to get this bits from the non-volatile medium and put them in the volatile medium in the hardware before it can use the hardware. That doesn't make these bits any more or less part of the hardware as when they were in a rom.

So what you call software I call part of the hardware, see word game again.

Note I'm not against the idea of having a variant of Fedora which does not contain firmware for those who want that, I actually support that idea!

But saying that Fedora cannot call itself a Free OS because it doesn't match your definition of Free seriously rubs me the wrong way. Also these kind of posts are not helping your case at all, they only serve to alienate the few supporters you have within the Fedora development community.

Regards,

Hans


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