Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?

[Jesse Keating]

On Nov 26, 2009, at 9:27, Terry Barnaby <terry1 at beam.ltd.uk> wrote:

> On 11/26/2009 05:05 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2009, at 6:01, Terry Barnaby <terry1 at beam.ltd.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, controversial title.
>>>
>>> I have just tried to test install F12 on some of my systems, (5
>>> different ones).
>>> All of these bar 1 has problems with the graphics (X11 lockups,  
>>> system
>>> lockups
>>> and other problems) mainly in 3D but also in 2D.
>>> I still am using F8 on most of my systems as the Graphics systems  
>>> have
>>> not
>>> been stable enough for 3D in Fedora since around those times.
>>>
>>> I know there is a lot of work going on in the graphics front, I  
>>> myself
>>> have worked on and fed back issues as time and ability allow.  
>>> During F11
>>> I helped with some issues, but unfortunately none of these made it
>>> back into
>>> updates for F11 and now F12 is out with yet more issues.
>>>
>>> The Linux kernel is generally relatively stable, as is the main  
>>> system
>>> libraries etc in Fedora. The core issues most people seem to be  
>>> facing
>>> is Graphics and Sound issues. Obviously a major issue with  
>>> Graphics is
>>> the sheer
>>> number of different graphics chip sets in use and the lack of
>>> documentation
>>> for quite a few of them. Due to this it requires a lot of user  
>>> testing
>>> and
>>> feedback to get these issues sorted out. Unfortunately the very fast
>>> Fedora new release schedule gets in the way of getting this  
>>> testing done
>>> and things do not get fixed prior to a new release which  
>>> introduces yet
>>> another set of problems. The new release speed also uses a lot of
>>> developer and user time in just managing to create a new release and
>>> updating systems to use it.
>>>
>>> I know the quick release cycle is one of Fedora's features in its  
>>> aim to
>>> be close to the leading edge, but this has to be balanced with
>>> usability otherwise there will be few people actually using it in
>>> anger and thus
>>> actually testing the software. This could lead to the demise of  
>>> Fedora.
>>>
>>> As an idea, at this stage, how about canceling the F13 release and
>>> just fixing and updating the F12 release ? This will concentrate
>>> developers and users into one system release. Similar to the
>>> pre-release test days we could have
>>> post-release test days. For example a Graphics test day for F12  
>>> where
>>> a certain set of tests with a test suite and a set of well known
>>> applications
>>> could be run. As F12 would be out longer, more people could
>>> participate in this.
>>> If a commitment, all round, to producing updates fixing the issues  
>>> in
>>> F12 were made, I think more people would be willing to participate  
>>> as
>>> users could
>>> expect to see a stable system for their efforts.
>>
>> You make the assumption that if fedora stopped, so would upstream.  
>> You
>> also state that the kernel is stable, yet most of the graphics work  
>> is
>> going on at the kernel level so we have to continue to bring in new
>> kernels to pick up these changes.
>>
>> Graphics work is not a fedora issue alone. It is an upstream issue  
>> first
>> and formost. By abandoning upstream and trying to stagnate will
>> ultimatly damage upstreams ability to gennew changes tested and  
>> released.
>>
>> --
>> Jes
>>
> I'm not suggesting F12 should not be updated, in fact the opposite.
>
> As you state most of the Graphics work is being done up-stream, but  
> it is
> the distributions role to package, release and allow users to test  
> this
> and feed back bugs. I am saying that a focus on Graphics with a quick
> update cycle will help upstream get the testing they need and the  
> users
> to get fixes.

This is what rawhide is for. Rapid updates with fast feedback and  
upstream snapshots. It is not the role of a stable release to be  
grabbing upstream new stuff and throwing it at users without abandon.
>

--
Jes