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Re: How about releasing an update of xorg-x11-drv-intel for Fedora 11



2009/10/9 Terry Barnaby <terry1 beam ltd uk>:
> On 10/09/2009 12:19 AM, Dave Airlie wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 09:37 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 14:05 +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, I don't what to force testing on anyone (although F11 has done
>>>> that
>>>> already :) )
>>>> I was just suggesting that a separate yum archive with the packages
>>>> necessary
>>>> to test the later graphics development code that will be in F12 could
>>>> be
>>>> made available for people to try out easily with their F11 systems.
>>>> They can optionally try these. I think it will allow 3D to work for
>>>> many people
>>>> (from my experience of the latest GIT versions) although others would
>>>> not be so
>>>> lucky. They can easily back these changes out if they have more issues
>>>> than
>>>> the standard graphics system.
>>>
>>> Then please feel free to make one. :) I don't mean that in a snide
>>> fashion, but it really is the answer. As noted, having our X.org
>>> developers spend time on such a repository directly subtracts that
>>> amount of time from the time they would otherwise spend actually
>>> developing the drivers (our X.org maintainers are also major upstream
>>> developers) and fixing reported bugs.
>>
>> I thought about doing something like this the other day, but really
>> if we had something like Ubuntu PPA, which I think is on the longterm
>> plans for Fedora then it would be a lot easier to do.
>>
>> At the moment its just too distracting to do.
>>
>> The thing with doing updates for F11 is the regression rate due to
>> lack of QA, I put Mesa packages into updates-testing that fixed a
>> lot of r300/r500 bugs back at the start of F11 and it went into
>> testing a few weeks later and broke Intel, I got 0 reports during that
>> u-t phase about breakage. So now I have a package in stable that
>> lets 3D works for x num of people and breaks compiz for y number.
>>
>> So I've pretty much given up on pushing anything to previous Fedora
>> releases that isn't a security fix or major crash fix, because we simply
>> don't have the QA in place to avoid regression current users, at least
>> if you install F11 on your hw, and it doesn't work well, you know that,
>> if you install it and it works well then later stops working well, thats
>> a lot worse situation to end up in.
>>
>> I think for F12 updates we could really do with some sort of side repo
>> setup, so we could have a stability period where QA could happen on
>> packages that may end up in updates a month or two later.
>>
>> Dave.
>>
>>> Given that there is a lot of development work to do on these drivers
>>> (which is why you find the newer versions better...) and a lot of bugs
>>> to fix (we generally barely keep up with the rate of bugs filed as it
>>> is), we don't see that as a good trade-off. You'd get backported drivers
>>> for stable releases, but the rate of development of the actual upstream
>>> drivers would be noticeably slowed, and fewer reported bugs would
>>> ultimately get fixed.
>>>
>>> Backporting packages is not intrinsically very difficult, though it is
>>> somewhat time-consuming, so it's something for which a far greater
>>> candidate pool exists than X driver development. Thus, the suggestion
>>> that someone else do it. For instance, you. It seems you've already
>>> successfully built the latest versions of things locally; if you can do
>>> that, you can put them in a package and put the package in a repository,
>>> it's not a very hard process and it's all documented on the Wiki.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Adam Williamson
>>> Fedora QA Community Monkey
>>> IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
>>> http://www.happyassassin.net
>>>
>>
>>
> I totally agree with you on the QA issue. Maybe I am wrong, but I haven't
> seen any real set of tests to be performed on Fedora 3D graphics.
> I tried the ATI test day for graphics. On the 3D graphics side it said to
> run "glxgears" and if you like other 3D apps that you use. Running your
> other 3D apps is difficult from a limited Live distribution...
> I really think a simple test procedure should be implemented and documented
> to at least check for basic functionality with the main 3D applications.
> Ideally an automatic test program should be part of this.
> This would allow a relative novice to test the 3D system on their hardware
> and hopefully automatically feed back constructive results from the
> myriad of different graphics hardware options.
>
>
Maybe we could do a "Phoronix live cd" that includes the phoronix 3d
tests and removes stuff like abiword and gnumeric?

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