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Re: DUG



On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:34 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 21:20 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > > 
> > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote:
> > > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > > >>>   There is (IMO) some overlap between the
> > > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that
> > > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across?
> > > >> What is the overlap you see?
> > > >>
> > > >> - Karsten
> > > > 
> > > > Yum and user administration I would think?  
> > > > 
> > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's
> > > > possibly an admin tool.
> > > 
> > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new
> > > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should
> > > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of
> > > information.
> > 
> > John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the
> > Administration Guide, not the DUG.  If someone needs to "administer"
> > their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*.  Whether a tool is
> > GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another;
> > in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should
> > be in the Desktop User Guide.  
> > 
> > The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration
> > files whenever possible.  This is part of the "best practices" for which
> > we should shoot.  Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases
> > should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced
> > or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should
> > follow.
> 
> The question then is why yum should not be covered in the DUG.  An
> example use case: You have yum-updatesd and to update you need to
> disable the cdrom update since it won't find it.  Those are all gui
> tools and are part of yum.

Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo?  I
honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very
long time.  The act of updating a system is one area I would say
deserves attention in the DUG and the AG.  That area of overlap, to me,
would be understandable.

> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a
> server set up would be an administration part.  I'm not trying to be
> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is
> different.

Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences ->
Network -> Personal File Sharing.  Anything beyond that is AG material.

> Desktop is everything a desktop user would require including samba, yum,
> desktop sharing etc.

As far as Samba goes, all a DUG audience member does is Places ->
Network.  Beyond that is AG material.

> Administration network login, advanced samba, advanced yum such as
> setting up local repo's etc.  The advanced stuff.  

Sure, these are all use cases for the AG.

> Am I off on my own?  If so can I have some guidance so I don't add stuff
> that is technically not considered appropriate for a desktop user?

That's exactly what this list and this discussion are for, and I for one
sincerely applaud you for using it.  A lot of people are driven to
handle all of this stuff on IRC, which is really a very poor choice for
discussion that you want to filter out to the larger community.  We love
talking on IRC and I think it's a great place for quick help or to
discover new issues, but to really get the issues pinned down with
details requires thoughtful discussion, and the mailing list is best for
that.  Again, and in all sincerity, thank you for continuing this
dialogue!

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
           Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
  irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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