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Re: DUG



On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 00:42 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:34 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 21:20 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote:
> > > > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > > > >>>   There is (IMO) some overlap between the
> > > > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that
> > > > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across?
> > > > >> What is the overlap you see?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Karsten
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yum and user administration I would think?  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's
> > > > > possibly an admin tool.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new
> > > > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should
> > > > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of
> > > > information.
> > > 
> > > John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the
> > > Administration Guide, not the DUG.  If someone needs to "administer"
> > > their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*.  Whether a tool is
> > > GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another;
> > > in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should
> > > be in the Desktop User Guide.  
> > > 
> > > The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration
> > > files whenever possible.  This is part of the "best practices" for which
> > > we should shoot.  Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases
> > > should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced
> > > or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should
> > > follow.
> > 
> > The question then is why yum should not be covered in the DUG.  An
> > example use case: You have yum-updatesd and to update you need to
> > disable the cdrom update since it won't find it.  Those are all gui
> > tools and are part of yum.
> 
> Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo?  I
> honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very
> long time.  The act of updating a system is one area I would say
> deserves attention in the DUG and the AG.  That area of overlap, to me,
> would be understandable.
> 
I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe
amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd.  

The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version 
using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus.  The problem arises is that the 
cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. 

An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd 
is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails.  
That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or 
even if it is considered a bug.

The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila 
yum-updatesd works by default updating the software.

I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it 
since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually.

> > You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a
> > server set up would be an administration part.  I'm not trying to be
> > pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is
> > different.
> 
> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences ->
> Network -> Personal File Sharing.  Anything beyond that is AG material.
> 

Has anyone got that to work?  I've never actually got it to function
properly.

> > Desktop is everything a desktop user would require including samba, yum,
> > desktop sharing etc.
> 
> As far as Samba goes, all a DUG audience member does is Places ->
> Network.  Beyond that is AG material.
> 
> > Administration network login, advanced samba, advanced yum such as
> > setting up local repo's etc.  The advanced stuff.  
> 
> Sure, these are all use cases for the AG.
> 
> > Am I off on my own?  If so can I have some guidance so I don't add stuff
> > that is technically not considered appropriate for a desktop user?
> 
> That's exactly what this list and this discussion are for, and I for one
> sincerely applaud you for using it.  A lot of people are driven to
> handle all of this stuff on IRC, which is really a very poor choice for
> discussion that you want to filter out to the larger community.  We love
> talking on IRC and I think it's a great place for quick help or to
> discover new issues, but to really get the issues pinned down with
> details requires thoughtful discussion, and the mailing list is best for
> that.  Again, and in all sincerity, thank you for continuing this
> dialogue!
> 

I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the
original email.  Can we put together a list of what topics should be
covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a
target to move towards?

Cheers,

Marc


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