FDSCo Meeting 2007-06-05 IRC log

[Karsten Wade]

HTML version of this is at:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070605

09:15 < quaid> <meeting>
09:16 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda
09:16 < quaid> JonRob: you happen to be around?
09:16 < quaid> who else is working on the Live Spin Guide
09:16 < JonRob> quaid: yeah
09:16 < couf> we're having a cvs+xml tutorial on Thursday to start them up
09:17 < JonRob> i've started writing the text however
09:17 < JonRob> and it's about 2/3 the way through, at least covering revisor
09:17 < couf> JonRob: excellent
09:17 < JonRob> grabbed loads of stuff from revisor.fedoraunity and edited for docs style
09:17 < JonRob> (tried to edit :D)
09:18 < JonRob> quaid: and to answer your original question, I don't know
09:18 < JonRob> jmbuser was interested?
09:19 < jmbuser> One advantage of wiki collaboration
09:19 < jmbuser> jmbuser: is easy to determine state of a document
09:19  * jmbuser talks to himself again
09:19 < JonRob> i'm happy to throw what i've got so far onto the wiki
09:20 < JonRob> and then port to cvs
09:20 < jmbuser> JobRob: Let me know where it is in  CVS and I can view it with yelp
09:20 < jmbuser> JonRob: (Freudian slip?) LOL
09:21 < JonRob> lol
09:21 < jmbuser> JonRob: CVS is fine
09:21 < JonRob> well it's not in cvs yet, cos i don't know how to get it in there :p
09:21 < couf> yeah, once you use it, you'll see that it works likewise as the wiki
09:21 < couf> it's just some more tagging
09:21 < jmbuser> JonRob: Then the wiki is fine for now
09:22 < JonRob> ok, it's on other comp so i'll throw it up later this evening
09:22 < JonRob> say about 1900utc +1
09:22 < quaid> IME, you'll get a faster kick-off if you go with the Wiki
09:22 < quaid> thenn convert
09:22 < jmbuser> JonRob: No problem
09:22 < jmbuser> quaid: +1
09:22 < quaid> there are many people who will not contribute outside of the wiki
09:23 < quaid> when we have Plone + Kupu, that will get traction, but in the meantime ...
09:23 < JonRob> quaid: yeah, we've been having a lot of discussion about best place to put it
09:23 < JonRob> on that subject
09:23 < JonRob> what's happening with plone?
09:23 < JonRob> and what's kupu? subject for another time?
09:24  * couf needs to run for some minutes
09:27 < quaid> sorry, jumped networks
09:28 < quaid> JonRob: Plone coming over the Summer, Kupu is an XHTML WYSIWYG editor built into Plone
09:28 < JonRob> cool
09:28 < JonRob> thnx
09:29 < quaid> ok, any else on this topic?
09:30 < jmbuser> I'm cool
09:30 < quaid> ok
09:30  * jmbuser loves irclog2html.py - thanks, quaid - see the agenda
09:30 < quaid> word!
09:31 < quaid> heh
09:31 < quaid> ok, on to the UG
09:31 < quaid> along with the Live Spin, this is our top focus
09:31 < quaid> status and thoughts?
09:32 -!- gomix [n=gomix at 200.84.243.8] has left #fedora-docs []
09:32 < jmbuser> quaid: I have downloaded the GNOME and KDE Live CDs
09:32 < jmbuser> quaid: I'm about to upgrade to F7
09:32 < quaid> jmbuser: how about the team organization, etc.?
09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Sorry, I just finished up my day job rush - and am now ready to roll
09:33 < quaid> right, end of Q is done :)
09:33 < quaid> making sure the team is enabled is #1
09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Therefore, not much team organizing
09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: true
09:33 < quaid> then stuff happens while you sleep
09:33 < quaid> so, there have been requests for a "to do" list
09:34 < quaid> that would be a great place to start, then announce it to the list
09:35 < jmbuser> quaid: So far , no volunteers from the KDE team (AFAIK) - (hint to ongoing meeting in fedora-meeting channel) :-)
09:35 < jmbuser> quaid: Agreed on the "to do" list
09:37 < jmbuser> Now that I have the F7 spins, I will list the "default" apps for each spins and ask for writers
09:38 < jmbuser> quaid: Agreed?
09:39 < JonRob> jmbuser: how detailed are we going to be?
09:39 < JonRob> i've removed a lot of screenshots from the backend of the guide
09:39 < JonRob> and updated some content
09:39  * couf returns
09:39 < JonRob> and created sections for new material to be added
09:39 < JonRob> but i don't know how detailed we're going?
09:40 < jmbuser> JonRob: That is a good contribution on the GNOME side of the house - much appreciated BTW
09:40 < JonRob> jmbuser: np
09:41 < jmbuser> JonRob: Setting up Evolution is an example of how detailed I think we should go.
09:41 < JonRob> but...are we going to add more info about how to use evolution aswell?
09:41 < jmbuser> jmbuser: For instance, Firefox in itself is an ocean one can swim in for days
09:42 < jmbuser> JonRob: Not being an Evolution user, I would gladly accept more detail from someone more knowledgeable on the subject.
09:42 < JonRob> ha...i've used it in the past, but not so much anymore
09:42 < JonRob> so we're happy to have stuff about how to use it?
09:42 < JonRob> it being $program
09:43 < couf> beware that we've got to go indepth for all subjects if we're doing this
09:43 < jmbuser> I believe it still is a default app in GNOME - is that right?
09:43 < JonRob> yeah
09:44 < JonRob> couf: good point, but should we not be aiming for something like that?
09:44 < JonRob> or is that above and beyond?
09:44 < jmbuser> This is where it is important to determine the target audience - the beginning user
09:45 < jmbuser> My wife is a former mainframe programmer and pretty savvy, but she complains that I don't give enough detail sometimes
09:45 < couf> jmbuser: right on the button
09:45 < jmbuser> That's where walking through the program's basic features is valuable.
09:46 < couf> I'm feeling this will take a long run, maybe target F8?
09:46 < JonRob> i've added material to the firefox along those lines
09:46 < jmbuser> Then, you can point the user to other places for further information
09:46 < JonRob> have people looked at those pages? is that about right for detail?
09:46 < JonRob> because that wasn't *huge* amounts of work
09:47 < JonRob> couf: +1 i think
09:47 < jmbuser> JonRob: I will review what you've written and give you my feedback
09:47 < JonRob> jmbuser: cool
09:47 < jmbuser> Regarding F8, we finished and announced FC6 DUG about halfway through the release cycle.
09:48 < JonRob> ?
09:48 < couf> jmbuser: true that, but F8 schedule is not so long (5 months)
09:48 < couf> it would be nice to take our time, to get it right
09:48 < couf> no pun intended there
09:49 < jmbuser> couf: That's true, so maybe the release cycle is too short this time
09:49 < JonRob> worried about volunteering too much
09:49 < JonRob> but i'll have time over the summer to contribute plenty
09:49 < jmbuser> At the same time, we don't F8 to work with yet, so we need to start with F7 ASAP.
09:50 < JonRob> yeah
09:50 < couf> true, although a lot of this stuff doesn't really have to change
09:50 < jmbuser> s /don't/don't have/
09:50  * quaid is about to disappear
09:50 < quaid> I'll keep logging
09:50 < jmbuser> couf: Also true
09:50 < quaid> can someone close the meeting when you can
09:50 < quaid> sorry
09:50 < couf> quaid: sure, cya around
09:50 < quaid> I have an unusual convergence this AM, off to my eldest's physics in motion demonstration
09:50 < JonRob> cheers :D
09:51 < jmbuser> quaid: Enjoy
09:51 < jmbuser> If no objects, I can guide us through the rest of the agenda
09:51 < couf> so can we agree on getting this *done* for F8, but starting with the topics that won't change
09:51 < jmbuser> s /objects/objections/
09:51 < jmbuser> couf: +1
09:52 < couf> jmbuser: be my guest :-)
09:52 < jmbuser> On to topic 3 then - Administration Guide
09:52 < jmbuser> Who would like to cover that subject?
09:53 < JonRob> somebody volunteered for that recently didn't they?
09:54  * jmbuser checks wiki
09:55 < jmbuser> The only solid contributor so far appears to be Dimitrios Typaldos - no lead writer listed
09:56 < couf> yeah, that's a guide we should get some interested guys on
09:56 < couf> put out a list of topics (or refine it)
09:56 < jmbuser> Any volunteer from the FDSCo to drive it?
09:56 < JonRob> i'm sorry but i have to run
09:57 < JonRob> i'll post what i've done on the spin stuff soon
09:57 < glezos> I didn't know Typaldos was contributing to the admin guide...
09:57 < JonRob> until then
09:57 < JonRob> bye!
09:57 -!- JonRob [n=jon at 88-110-90-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit ["leaving"]
09:57 < jmbuser> JonRob: Thanks
09:58 < jmbuser> glezos: He put his name down for directory structure, but only quaid has touched it this year
09:58 < jmbuser> glezos: Do you know Typaldos by any chance?
09:59 < glezos> he has contributed a ton of translations in greek
09:59 < couf> I'm kinda tied up for the moment, in a month I could try to start driving it
10:00 < jmbuser> couf: Can you put yourself down as lead writer?
10:01 < jmbuser> couf: No pressure...:-)
10:01 < couf> heh, yeah, but it's a pending thing then, if someone else jumps in, I'm okay with that
10:01  * couf adds to takslist
10:01 < jmbuser> couf: That's fine - thanks
10:02 < jmbuser> Moving on to Topic 4?
10:02 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:04 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs
10:04 < couf> yeah, move on
10:04 < jmbuser> sorry - lousy ISP
10:05  * couf notes with 2, this isn't a real meeting
10:05 < jmbuser> Topic 4: Release Notes update / zero-day drop status
10:06 < jmbuser> Who would like to address this topic ( we will speed things up, I promise)
10:06 < jmbuser> Any takers?
10:06 < couf> jmbuser: btw while I'm editing the tasklist, you up for mentoring the Live CD?
10:06 < couf> heh, some groups are committing stuff and ready to publish the web-notes
10:06 < jmbuser> couf: Yes, count me in.
10:07 < couf> and IG asweel
10:07 < couf> s/asweel/aswell
10:07 < jmbuser> couf: Great
10:07 < jmbuser> couf: Do we have names?
10:08 < jmbuser> Shall we skip topic 4 then?
10:08 < couf> yeah, I'll try to do some publishing tonight
10:08 < jmbuser> Topic 4, going...
10:09 < couf> move on :-)
10:09 < jmbuser> going...gone!
10:09 < jmbuser> Topic 5?
10:09 < jmbuser> couf: You are editing it as we speak?
10:09 < couf> iirc, quaid was gonna check this
10:10 < jmbuser> couf: the master task list, I mean
10:10 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks
10:10 < couf> yeah
10:10 < jmbuser> couf: Topic 5? or 4?
10:10 < couf> euh 5
10:11 < couf> we should skip this aswell
10:11 < jmbuser> couf: okay
10:11  * couf notes we're not at quorum anymore
10:12 < jmbuser> glezos: Topic 6!
10:12 < glezos> wha?
10:12 < glezos> :)
10:12 < jmbuser> couf: I think that's ok regarding quorum
10:12 < couf> hey, it's your idea glezos :-)
10:12 < glezos> tags?
10:12 < jmbuser> glezos: According to the IRC, you brought it up.
10:12 < couf> aye tags
10:13 < jmbuser> glezos: Yes
10:13 < glezos> well, before each release we'll tag the documents like this:
10:13 < glezos> cvs tag 'fedora-8'
10:13 < glezos> just to know which version we
10:13 < jmbuser> glezos: Your name is in green :-)
10:13 < glezos> which version we've shipped, and to have it checkout-able in the future.
10:14 < glezos> jmbuser: stickster said he wrote a 'make tag' rule, so it's quite easy
10:14 < couf> glezos: so we could maybe use a QUEUE and PUBLISH-tag
10:14 < glezos> couf: ?
10:14 < couf> for the publish-queue, so we only publish the stuff tagged PUBLISH, and QA happens to QUEUE
10:15 < jmbuser> couf: "yay for tagging :)"
10:15 < couf> something analogic with the LIVE tagging for the websites
10:15 < couf> jmbuser: I'm all up for tags and branches :-)
10:15 < jmbuser> couf: Sounds good - is it difficult to implement?
10:16 < couf> not really, it's basicly part of cvs
10:16 < glezos> couf: Do we need tagging to decide whether something is publishable? I guess an email on the list or a wiki page would suffice, right?
10:16  * jmbuser noticed that glezos already answered the question
10:16 < couf> glezos: it could automate the process
10:17 < couf> send an e-mail to foo to QA something, let him publish -> script that does live tagging to website
10:18 < jmbuser> More automation is good - since there's no quorum, we can bring it up on the list for agreement
10:18 < jmbuser> You've got my vote
10:18 < couf> yeah +1 to list-decission
10:19 < jmbuser> Should we conclude the meeting? or any more topics?
10:19 < glezos> sorry, I didn't get what needs decision
10:19 < couf> actually, as I understand it, glezos you're basiclly talking about tagging something, whilst it's branching
10:19 < couf> glezos: idea of using tags as publishing mechanism
10:19 < jmbuser> glezos: +1
10:20 < glezos> couf: tags would be useful if for example, we had a file saying: "*this* version of the document gets published *there*".. and fully automate it.
10:20 < glezos> Soneone has to write that script though. :)
10:21 < couf> heh, yeah, that's why it's an idea ;-)
10:21 < jmbuser> I think Stickster can handle it - but we have to check with him
10:22 < jmbuser> Okay - shall we adjourn the meeting?
10:22 < couf> you know what, I'll ponder my head around it, send it to the list and we'll see what happens
10:22 < jmbuser> couf: Sounds good
10:23 < couf> jmbuser: close it ;-)
10:23 < jmbuser> 5...
10:23 < jmbuser> 4...
10:23 < jmbuser> 3...
10:23 < jmbuser> 2...
10:23 < jmbuser> 1...
10:23 < jmbuser> </meeting>
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