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FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-06 IRC log



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09:06 < stickster> :-)
09:06 < quaid> there :)
09:07 < stickster> Relnotes translation status is documented on wiki at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics
09:07 < couf> hah :)
09:07 < stickster> Making great progress in smaller modules.  Release notes module, less so.
09:07 < stickster> There are several locales for relnotes done, though -- notably es, pt, pt_BR and sr if memory serves
09:07 < stickster> I think el and zh_CN are either done or almost done too
09:07 < quaid> should we drop an email to the in-danger languages?  is that easily done?
09:08 < stickster> I don't have membership on the per-lang lists, but I can certainly send an email to f-trans-l with a summary
09:09 < couf> <dreaming>1 e-mailadress to all lang-lists</dreaming>
09:09  * stickster shakes couf awake
09:09 < glezos> Here are some key people for languages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams
09:10  * couf thanks stickster 
09:12  * glezos will send an email to -trans-de (german) 'cause they seem a bit inactive
09:12 < stickster> glezos: You may be able to just forward my email -- going to f-trans-l in a minute or two
09:12 < glezos> ok
09:14 < quaid> well ... anything else to do there?
09:14 < quaid> when do we have to drop the package to RelEng
09:15 < stickster> Around the 10th AIUI
09:15 < stickster> I will certainly coordinate with Jesse since I'll see him in DS
09:15 < stickster> *SD
09:15 < quaid> ok
09:15 < stickster> It's possible there could be a day or two of slide time given the Summit
09:15 < glezos> stickster: please remember to remind the (new) deadline for translations in your mail
09:16 < stickster> Yup, doing so -- sent it before, sending it again
09:17 < stickster> OK, off
09:18 < stickster> IG status: doing some heavy refactoring today, hope to have the whole thing ready in ~48 hours
09:18 -!- aalamS [n=aalam 59 94 178 183] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:18 < quaid> quick side question ...
09:18 < quaid> are we Ok with the idea of merging all project tasks into DP/Tasks?
09:19 < quaid> it's "different" from other projects; we adoped the TaskSchedule from e.g. FESCo, and I sort of hate it :)
09:19  * stickster gives +1, we need to simplify... and I hate it too :-)
09:19 < quaid> ok
09:19  * quaid works on that in the background, so he can get a list of "Guides for F7" on Tasks
09:20 < glezos> +1 here
09:21 < couf> +1 here aswell
09:22 < jmbuser> simplifying is good
09:23 < stickster> BTW, thanks to the folks cleaning up our project page.  Much easier to read and navigate now!
09:23 < jmbuser> JonRob deserves a round of applause
09:23 < couf> +1, thanks JonRob
09:23 < JonRob> jmbuser: you'll make me blush
09:24 < JonRob> glad you'll like it tho :D
09:25 < glezos> :)
09:25  * quaid does a golf clap
09:25 < quaid> jmbuser: tell us about CompleteReference
09:26 < glezos> this is a great example on how a new member could do something really useful for a project
09:26 < quaid> fresh perspective + enthusiasm == life blood :)
09:27 < JonRob> the DP/Tasks page would be a good addition to the join page
09:27 < JonRob> help other newbies get involved
09:27 < quaid> yes!
09:27 < quaid> that is exacly the reason, to get all the real tasks in one place, organizes by difficulty, etc.
09:28 < JonRob> yeah
09:28 < JonRob> cool :D
09:28 < couf> indeed, keep it simple and people will want to jump in
09:29 < glezos> a list with simple, hands-on tasks each one having a mentor is a great way to encourage new members to get their hands dirty and have fun
09:29 < quaid> right ... instead of jamming all on that page, if a sub-project (e.g. release notes) needs lots of tasks, then we can just reference a sub-page (DP/Tasks/ReleaseNotes)
09:30 < JonRob> quaid: take away from the fear of random wiki edits!
09:30 < JonRob> (probably just me on that one :D)
09:31 < jmbuser> jmbuser: random wiki-editing is fun
09:31  * jmbuser talks to himself
09:32 < JonRob> lol
09:32 < couf> jmbuser: you seem to like doing that :-)
09:32 < jmbuser> couf: only lately :-)
09:32  * quaid wonders what happened to the Wiki patch that kept the table from floating under the darn right nav
09:32 < couf> well then an FYI: I'm working on to small FDP-howto's (wiki-2-xml and publishing to docs.fp.org)
09:32 < quaid> cool
09:33 < quaid> although on the later ...
09:33 < quaid> latter
09:33 < quaid> that exists, doesn't it?  
09:33 < couf> yeah, but more refining it
09:33 < quaid> ok
09:33 < quaid> don't kill yourself on it, since we are sunsetting that method
09:33  * quaid didn't want to say "killing"
09:33 < couf> i've got some .conf-file around, making it just copy-paste -> restarting apache
09:34 < couf> quaid: gotcha
09:34 < stickster> couf: There is part of the publishing to docs.fp.org in the /cvs/fedora branch README
09:34 < stickster> couf: You may be able to leapfrog using that
09:34 < couf> stickster: thanks, didn't see that file
09:34 < stickster> under config/HOWTO*
09:36 < couf> well it's just mentioning a sort of differnet approach (alternative method), for people already running a site
09:36 < stickster> couf: cool
09:37 < couf> okay, should we move on?
09:38 < jmbuser> +1
09:38 < stickster> =1
09:38 < stickster> +1, sorry
09:39 < couf> we've had the IG, so that makes: admin guide and/or FUG
09:39 < quaid> so for the other guides
09:39 < quaid> I don't see us having them ready w/ translations by F7
09:39 < quaid> ready, yes; l10n, no
09:39 < quaid> which is not optimal, but its ok
09:40 < jmbuser> quaid: I have to agree with the FUG not being ready for translation
09:40 < quaid> so the list of target guides is:  Installation, Administration, (New) Users ...
09:40 < quaid> Yum ...
09:40 < quaid> (Software Management)
09:40 < quaid> anything else?
09:41 < couf> guess not, we shouldn't go too far with this
09:41 < couf> having 4 guides ready will be nice
09:42 < quaid> yes, we can look at producing more between releases
09:42 < quaid> I see two general classes of guides
09:42 < quaid> one is essential to have with a new release
09:42 < quaid> those help you install, use, and administrate the system
09:42 < quaid> the other kind are more bonus, and go into different areas people care about
09:42 < quaid> some of those other kind may end up getting pulled later into e.g. Administrationg guide
09:43 < quaid> those are the "how to run your own repo" and etc. types
09:44 < JonRob> has the docs project ever considered trying to establish a set of less formal guides, to compliment the formal ones?
09:44 < quaid> how do you mean less-formal?
09:45 < quaid> wiki-based or?
09:45 < JonRob> quaid: good question, there's loads of info spread around fedora forums etc that are useful (and that don't have legal/patent issues)
09:45 < JonRob> but they're so scattered
09:45 < quaid> right
09:46 < JonRob> might be nice to have something that makes those easier to find
09:46 < JonRob> not same quality
09:46 < JonRob> but useful none the less
09:46 < quaid> well, all the fedoraunity sites are under the OPL, so that is one souce
09:46 -!- Netsplit pratchett.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mether, stickster, tsAWAY, vpv, jmbuser, couf
09:46 < quaid> once we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation
09:46 < quaid> whoops
09:46 < quaid> hold on until the net desplits
09:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: jmbuser
09:46 -!- mether [i=ask fedora/mether] has joined #fedora-docs
09:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: stickster, couf, vpv, tsAWAY
09:47 < JonRob> sure
09:47 < JonRob> what was that?
09:47 < jmbuser> stickster: What happened?
09:48 < stickster> wacky
09:48 < quaid> netsplit
09:48 < quaid> we waited for you :)
09:48 < quaid> only thing I said was ...
09:48 < quaid> once we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation
09:48 < stickster> roger that
09:49 < quaid> JonRob: netsplit is when the servers we are chatting on drop their connection; we are all connected to a random IRC server that is all part of an IRC network, and sometimes a server splits off, then comes back
09:49 < quaid> (e.g. those guys were all on pratchett.freenode.net)
09:49 < JonRob> quaid: thanks :D
09:49 < glezos> Ideally we'll be able to fix the defragmentation of our docs and get them all in a "bigger picture" thing.. although low-level they will be modular.
09:49 < glezos> with the publication from the wiki we might be able to get this "right".
09:50 < jmbuser> +1
09:50 < quaid> yep
09:50 < quaid> it's going to be quite a productive summer with the two GSoC projects solving long standing problems :)
09:51 < jmbuser> yes!
09:52 < couf> will be great :)
09:52 < JonRob> is there anywhere with details on these longstanding problems?!
09:52 < stickster> let's hope so!
09:52 < stickster> oops, I meant that as a response to quaid
09:52 < JonRob> lol
09:53 < jmbuser> JonRob: May I humbly recommend http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas ?
09:53  * jmbuser shamelessly plugs his doc
09:53 < JonRob> jmbuser: thanks
09:56 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Plone#head-bd3aef95681e959064f783eba789c6288d8f8b7b
09:56 < quaid> that's a good summary of one of the problems/solutions
09:57 < jmbuser> quaid: agreed
09:58 < JonRob> sounds like it will be useful once plone arrives!
10:00  * quaid sits down with some breakfast
10:00 < quaid> one of those days where the effort to make coffee is too much
10:00 < quaid> ok, what else ...
10:00  * stickster buried in PXE server provisioning
10:01 < quaid> whee!
10:02 < quaid> so, I'm going to get the Tasks page updated ....
10:02 < quaid> and I'll get the list-o-Guides up there as tasks
10:03 < quaid> anything else of the "other business" sort?
10:04 < couf> don't think so
10:04 < quaid> ok, then ...
10:04  * quaid does the final thirty second count down 
10:04 < stickster> nope, nada here
10:05 < quaid> thanks for attending all
10:05 < jmbuser> quaid: Thanks
10:05 < JonRob> cheers all
10:05 < quaid> ... and thanks to our families and friends who put up with us giggling at IRC jokes in the middle of a Sunday :)
10:05 < quaid> 5
10:05 < quaid> 4
10:05 < quaid> 3
10:05 < quaid> 2
10:05  * quaid looks at stickster for the final joke
10:05 < quaid> 1
10:05 < quaid> </meeting>

Title: fedora-docs.log

fedora-docs.log

quaid<meeting>09:06
stickster:-)09:06
quaidthere :)09:06
sticksterRelnotes translation status is documented on wiki at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics09:07
coufhah :)09:07
sticksterMaking great progress in smaller modules.  Release notes module, less so.09:07
sticksterThere are several locales for relnotes done, though -- notably es, pt, pt_BR and sr if memory serves09:07
sticksterI think el and zh_CN are either done or almost done too09:07
quaidshould we drop an email to the in-danger languages?  is that easily done?09:07
sticksterI don't have membership on the per-lang lists, but I can certainly send an email to f-trans-l with a summary09:08
couf<dreaming>1 e-mailadress to all lang-lists</dreaming>09:09
* stickster shakes couf awake09:09
glezosHere are some key people for languages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams09:09
* couf thanks stickster 09:10
* glezos will send an email to -trans-de (german) 'cause they seem a bit inactive09:12
sticksterglezos: You may be able to just forward my email -- going to f-trans-l in a minute or two09:12
glezosok09:12
quaidwell ... anything else to do there?09:14
quaidwhen do we have to drop the package to RelEng09:14
sticksterAround the 10th AIUI09:15
sticksterI will certainly coordinate with Jesse since I'll see him in DS09:15
stickster*SD09:15
quaidok09:15
sticksterIt's possible there could be a day or two of slide time given the Summit09:15
glezosstickster: please remember to remind the (new) deadline for translations in your mail09:15
sticksterYup, doing so -- sent it before, sending it again09:16
sticksterOK, off09:17
sticksterIG status: doing some heavy refactoring today, hope to have the whole thing ready in ~48 hours09:18
-!- aalamS [n=aalam 59 94 178 183] has quit [Remote closed the connection]09:18
quaidquick side question ...09:18
quaidare we Ok with the idea of merging all project tasks into DP/Tasks?09:18
quaidit's "different" from other projects; we adoped the TaskSchedule from e.g. FESCo, and I sort of hate it :)09:19
* stickster gives +1, we need to simplify... and I hate it too :-)09:19
quaidok09:19
* quaid works on that in the background, so he can get a list of "Guides for F7" on Tasks09:19
glezos+1 here09:20
couf+1 here aswell09:21
jmbusersimplifying is good09:22
sticksterBTW, thanks to the folks cleaning up our project page.  Much easier to read and navigate now!09:23
jmbuserJonRob deserves a round of applause09:23
couf+1, thanks JonRob09:23
JonRobjmbuser: you'll make me blush09:23
JonRobglad you'll like it tho :D09:24
glezos:)09:25
* quaid does a golf clap09:25
quaidjmbuser: tell us about CompleteReference09:25
glezosthis is a great example on how a new member could do something really useful for a project09:26
quaidfresh perspective + enthusiasm == life blood :)09:26
JonRobthe DP/Tasks page would be a good addition to the join page09:27
JonRobhelp other newbies get involved09:27
quaidyes!09:27
quaidthat is exacly the reason, to get all the real tasks in one place, organizes by difficulty, etc.09:27
JonRobyeah09:28
JonRobcool :D09:28
coufindeed, keep it simple and people will want to jump in09:28
glezosa list with simple, hands-on tasks each one having a mentor is a great way to encourage new members to get their hands dirty and have fun09:29
quaidright ... instead of jamming all on that page, if a sub-project (e.g. release notes) needs lots of tasks, then we can just reference a sub-page (DP/Tasks/ReleaseNotes)09:29
JonRobquaid: take away from the fear of random wiki edits!09:30
JonRob(probably just me on that one :D)09:30
jmbuserjmbuser: random wiki-editing is fun09:31
* jmbuser talks to himself09:31
JonRoblol09:32
coufjmbuser: you seem to like doing that :-)09:32
jmbusercouf: only lately :-)09:32
* quaid wonders what happened to the Wiki patch that kept the table from floating under the darn right nav09:32
coufwell then an FYI: I'm working on to small FDP-howto's (wiki-2-xml and publishing to docs.fp.org)09:32
quaidcool09:32
quaidalthough on the later ...09:33
quaidlatter09:33
quaidthat exists, doesn't it?  09:33
coufyeah, but more refining it09:33
quaidok09:33
quaiddon't kill yourself on it, since we are sunsetting that method09:33
* quaid didn't want to say "killing"09:33
coufi've got some .conf-file around, making it just copy-paste -> restarting apache09:33
coufquaid: gotcha09:34
stickstercouf: There is part of the publishing to docs.fp.org in the /cvs/fedora branch README09:34
stickstercouf: You may be able to leapfrog using that09:34
coufstickster: thanks, didn't see that file09:34
sticksterunder config/HOWTO*09:34
coufwell it's just mentioning a sort of differnet approach (alternative method), for people already running a site09:36
stickstercouf: cool09:36
coufokay, should we move on?09:37
jmbuser+109:38
stickster=109:38
stickster+1, sorry09:38
coufwe've had the IG, so that makes: admin guide and/or FUG09:39
quaidso for the other guides09:39
quaidI don't see us having them ready w/ translations by F709:39
quaidready, yes; l10n, no09:39
quaidwhich is not optimal, but its ok09:39
jmbuserquaid: I have to agree with the FUG not being ready for translation09:40
quaidso the list of target guides is:  Installation, Administration, (New) Users ...09:40
quaidYum ...09:40
quaid(Software Management)09:40
quaidanything else?09:40
coufguess not, we shouldn't go too far with this09:41
coufhaving 4 guides ready will be nice09:41
quaidyes, we can look at producing more between releases09:42
quaidI see two general classes of guides09:42
quaidone is essential to have with a new release09:42
quaidthose help you install, use, and administrate the system09:42
quaidthe other kind are more bonus, and go into different areas people care about09:42
quaidsome of those other kind may end up getting pulled later into e.g. Administrationg guide09:42
quaidthose are the "how to run your own repo" and etc. types09:43
JonRobhas the docs project ever considered trying to establish a set of less formal guides, to compliment the formal ones?09:44
quaidhow do you mean less-formal?09:44
quaidwiki-based or?09:45
JonRobquaid: good question, there's loads of info spread around fedora forums etc that are useful (and that don't have legal/patent issues)09:45
JonRobbut they're so scattered09:45
quaidright09:45
JonRobmight be nice to have something that makes those easier to find09:46
JonRobnot same quality09:46
JonRobbut useful none the less09:46
quaidwell, all the fedoraunity sites are under the OPL, so that is one souce09:46
-!- Netsplit pratchett.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mether, stickster, tsAWAY, vpv, jmbuser, couf09:46
quaidonce we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation09:46
quaidwhoops09:46
quaidhold on until the net desplits09:46
-!- Netsplit over, joins: jmbuser09:46
-!- mether [i=ask fedora/mether] has joined #fedora-docs09:46
-!- Netsplit over, joins: stickster, couf, vpv, tsAWAY09:46
JonRobsure09:47
JonRobwhat was that?09:47
jmbuserstickster: What happened?09:47
sticksterwacky09:48
quaidnetsplit09:48
quaidwe waited for you :)09:48
quaidonly thing I said was ...09:48
quaidonce we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation09:48
sticksterroger that09:48
quaidJonRob: netsplit is when the servers we are chatting on drop their connection; we are all connected to a random IRC server that is all part of an IRC network, and sometimes a server splits off, then comes back09:49
quaid(e.g. those guys were all on pratchett.freenode.net)09:49
JonRobquaid: thanks :D09:49
glezosIdeally we'll be able to fix the defragmentation of our docs and get them all in a "bigger picture" thing.. although low-level they will be modular.09:49
glezoswith the publication from the wiki we might be able to get this "right".09:49
jmbuser+109:50
quaidyep09:50
quaidit's going to be quite a productive summer with the two GSoC projects solving long standing problems :)09:50
jmbuseryes!09:51
coufwill be great :)09:52
JonRobis there anywhere with details on these longstanding problems?!09:52
sticksterlet's hope so!09:52
sticksteroops, I meant that as a response to quaid09:52
JonRoblol09:52
jmbuserJonRob: May I humbly recommend http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas ?09:53
* jmbuser shamelessly plugs his doc09:53
JonRobjmbuser: thanks09:53
quaidhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Plone#head-bd3aef95681e959064f783eba789c6288d8f8b7b09:56
quaidthat's a good summary of one of the problems/solutions09:56
jmbuserquaid: agreed09:57
JonRobsounds like it will be useful once plone arrives!09:58
* quaid sits down with some breakfast10:00
quaidone of those days where the effort to make coffee is too much10:00
quaidok, what else ...10:00
* stickster buried in PXE server provisioning10:00
quaidwhee!10:01
quaidso, I'm going to get the Tasks page updated ....10:02
quaidand I'll get the list-o-Guides up there as tasks10:02
quaidanything else of the "other business" sort?10:03
coufdon't think so10:04
quaidok, then ...10:04
* quaid does the final thirty second count down 10:04
sticksternope, nada here10:04
quaidthanks for attending all10:05
jmbuserquaid: Thanks10:05
JonRobcheers all10:05
quaid... and thanks to our families and friends who put up with us giggling at IRC jokes in the middle of a Sunday :)10:05
quaid510:05
quaid410:05
quaid310:05
quaid210:05
* quaid looks at stickster for the final joke10:05
quaid110:05
quaid</meeting>10:05

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