FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log (ERRATUM)

[Paul W. Frields]

<stickster> <meeting>
<stickster> Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary.
<stickster> Let's talk about wiki gardening
--- stickster (n=npfrield at fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening
* quaid pulls in just in time
<stickster> woo-hoo!
<quaid> I like whatever stickster just recommended :)
* Sparks would like a backup just in case
<quaid> <meeting>
<quaid> (to make it easier to find the start in the log)
<quaid> oh, sorry!
<ianweller> stickster already did that lol
* quaid looks at his buffer and moves on
<ianweller> now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.>
<quaid> yeah, now I messed it up
<stickster> 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so
<stickster> It's a recursive meeting
<quaid> ok, so ...
<quaid> just to speak for a moment about page naming ...
<quaid> well ...
<quaid> I'm stuck mentally;
<quaid> I see where we need to go to, but
<quaid> i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :)
<quaid> ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely
<quaid> so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ...
<quaid> anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so.
<stickster> Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise
* ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure
<quaid> ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that
* stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list
<quaid> in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way
<quaid> ok, so, yeah
<stickster> quaid: +1
<quaid> just wanted to remind people to work on that too
<stickster> yeppers
* stickster steals mizmo-ism
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ?
* quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on
<quaid> ok, there we go; and
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks
<zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org)
<quaid> darnit, sorry, that was what I meant
<quaid> ok, until :30
<quaid> we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list
* quaid has the edit on that page
<quaid> then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing.
<quaid> sound OK?
<stickster> cool beans
<ianweller> sure
* quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme
<quaid> ok, open for task ideas
<quaid> what does the wiki need gardened?
into urls
<stickster> * Reorg of packaging policy *
<ianweller> ;)
<abadger1999> stickster: +1
<quaid> * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo)
<stickster> * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: *
* ke4qqq is late
<quaid> * moving meeting minutes to Meeting:
<quaid> ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first
<quaid> working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them.
<quaid> * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages
* quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :)
<stickster> wow, major pruning there ;-)
<stickster> * Find/prune orphans and dead links *
<ianweller> * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done *
<quaid> yeah, that one
<stickster> yum
<stickster> yum install icecreamcake
<stickster> Any more?
<quaid> disambiguation needs?
<ianweller> steal mediawiki's templates for that?
<quaid> * categorize all doc pages properly
<quaid> * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting
<quaid> * set policy ofwhat is obsolete
<quaid> N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2
* quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :)
<ianweller> yes, the latter +1
<stickster> quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading"
<quaid> yep
<stickster> And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy
* quaid adds N+1 to that :D
<quaid> stickster: b i n g o
<stickster> We try never to think ahead.
<quaid> ok, saving an update to that page
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks
<zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org)
<quaid> seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone?
<quaid> let's give this a few more minutes
* quaid reorganizes the order a bit
<quaid> ok, if that's it on the task ideas
* quaid updates the org of that page
<stickster> I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews.
<quaid> ok, but page naming has to come first
<quaid> right?
<ianweller> agreed with both statements
* wonderer1 late to SORRY
<quaid> np
<quaid> stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming
<stickster> quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing.
* stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light
<quaid> ok, so
<quaid> any other thoughts on the priority there?
<quaid> now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks
<stickster> 3 and 5 at the top
<stickster> 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies
<quaid> ah, we need to note that somewhow
<quaid> should we make two categories here?
<quaid> "olders and newbsters"
<quaid> stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order?
<stickster> quaid: Sorry, that was priority
<stickster> Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough
<stickster> 8 and 10 are easier.
<quaid> so, two questions:
<quaid> i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me)
<stickster> Is this a task list?
<stickster> If so, then sort by priority.
<quaid> ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2
<quaid> well, we could have two lists that sort by priority
<quaid> just adjust the page nesting to have two sections
<stickster> Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks
<quaid> or just note the difficulty in the section
* quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second
<wonderer1> to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside...
* stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice
<stickster> I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks.
<quaid> well, we may not get assignment on them all
<quaid> stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them?
<stickster> too true
<quaid> I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board
<wonderer1> and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ?
<zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org)
<stickster> domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min
* wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min.
<stickster> back
<wonderer1> how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured?
<stickster> ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with?
* quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls
* ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs
<ke4qqq> ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy
<ke4qqq> errr talking to myself...
<quaid> right, we need to work up the steps a bit
<quaid> e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks
<zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org)
<quaid> ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority
* quaid removes tertiary sections
<stickster> That looks good on a tty at least :-)
<quaid> quadenary!
<stickster> Anyone else care to comment?
<quaid> ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments
<ke4qqq> one quick comment
* wonderer1 would go for  Find and prune orphans and dead links
<quaid> wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task.
<ke4qqq> It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc.
<stickster> ke4qqq: Wow, good point.
<ke4qqq> that may exist but I haven't seen it
<quaid> is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure?
<quaid> should that be, that is
<wonderer1> quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?!
<quaid> or do we need a stand-alone page for that?
<stickster> Example_wiki_page
<stickster> But yes.
<quaid> wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc.
* quaid adds the page structure task
<stickster> wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions
<quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages
<stickster> wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there
<quaid> 1
<wonderer1> stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-)
<stickster> ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-)
<ke4qqq> I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing
<quaid> ke4qqq: of course!
<ke4qqq> as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are.
<stickster> ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres.
<quaid> just a catalystis needed, as usual
<stickster> *carpenters
<quaid> wonderer1: what is your FAS user name?
<wonderer1> wonderer
<quaid> :D
* stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes
<wonderer1> without the "1" :-)
<stickster> What about other task assignments?
<quaid> I've got the page naming
<stickster> quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week
<stickster> ha, jinx
<stickster> I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff
<quaid> hmm
<stickster> probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f
<quaid> I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help?
<stickster> Sure would be nice
<stickster> Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-)
* stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand
<stickster> Is someone in this channel directly following us?
<Sparks> stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us
<stickster> Sparks: You're alive!
<stickster> ;-)
<quaid> whoops, time to wrap up
<quaid> yep, FAMSco or somebody :)
<quaid> anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs
<fugolini> take you time :)
<stickster> fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours!
<fugolini> feel free to finish
<quaid> </meeting>
<quaid> </meeting>

-- 
Paul W. Frields
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://paul.frields.org/   -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
  irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
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