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FDSCo Meeting 2009-03-05 IRC log



Mar 04 19:00:10 <Sparks>	<meeting id="Docs Project">
Mar 04 19:00:13 <Sparks>	Roll Call!
Mar 04 19:00:14 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Mar 04 19:00:18 *	laubersm is here
Mar 04 19:00:19 *	danielsmw is here
Mar 04 19:00:21 *	Sparks is here
Mar 04 19:00:25 <jjmcd>	est ici
Mar 04 19:01:14 *	radsy here
Mar 04 19:01:30 <radsy>	i'm awake for this one!
Mar 04 19:01:48 <Sparks>	radsy: That was one of the reasons for moving the meeting time!
Mar 04 19:01:59 *	Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in
Mar 04 19:02:45 *	Tsagadai (n=ccurran nat/redhat/x-6be2c7767979ce42) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:02:47 <mdious>	here
Mar 04 19:02:56 *	che__ has quit ("Verlassend")
Mar 04 19:03:05 *	ryanlerch (n=rlerch nat/redhat/x-bb8748c4cdaca644) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:03:28 *	ryanlerch is here
Mar 04 19:03:37 <ryanlerch>	sorry for being late...
Mar 04 19:03:43 *	rudi (n=rlandman nat/redhat/x-b92c1d018b23f8c9) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:03:56 <ianweller>	oh hai
Mar 04 19:03:56 <Sparks>	ryanlerch: Well don't worry about it.  You only missed the first three minutes of the meeting...
Mar 04 19:03:58 *	ianweller is here
Mar 04 19:04:05 <Sparks>	... where we discussed putting you in charge of everything
Mar 04 19:04:09 <jjmcd>	is ke4qqq actually here
Mar 04 19:04:10 <ryanlerch>	lol
Mar 04 19:04:13 *	J5 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 19:04:48 <Sparks>	Okay, first I'd like to apologize for my absence over the past couple of weeks...
Mar 04 19:04:51 *	ianweller steals Sparks's gavel and hits the table with it
Mar 04 19:05:15 *	kulll has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 19:05:16 <Sparks>	between $DAYJOB and being sick the last few days I haven't been with it.
Mar 04 19:05:37 <Sparks>	And did I mention that my primary computer did it's biannual X failure?
Mar 04 19:05:44 <Sparks>	enough about all that... on with the show.
Mar 04 19:05:51 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Wiki ticket approval <-- ianweller
Mar 04 19:05:59 <Sparks>	ianweller: You needed guidance?
Mar 04 19:06:09 <ianweller>	oh yes
Mar 04 19:06:14 <ianweller>	.tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=milestone&keywords=~FDSCo&order=priority
Mar 04 19:06:16 <zodbot>	ianweller: http://tinyurl.com/ccdbpp
Mar 04 19:06:32 <ianweller>	i'm gonna go down the list real quick
Mar 04 19:06:48 <ianweller>	ticket 2: Packaging mass page rename
Mar 04 19:06:56 <ianweller>	laubersm: what's the status on that?
Mar 04 19:07:04 <laubersm>	ready to go
Mar 04 19:07:25 <Sparks>	Did we get the bot working?
Mar 04 19:07:27 <ianweller>	k i'll see what i can do with wikibot. i may just need to work w/o nigel's patches to pywikipedia bot
Mar 04 19:07:28 <laubersm>	I don't have permission to touch those manually but abadger and spot said go for it
Mar 04 19:07:40 <ianweller>	laubersm: i don't have permission either :/
Mar 04 19:07:44 <laubersm>	the psv has old name | new name
Mar 04 19:07:46 <ianweller>	which is oddly funny
Mar 04 19:07:53 <ianweller>	anywho moving on
Mar 04 19:07:59 <ianweller>	Docs Project mass rename
Mar 04 19:08:01 <ianweller>	laubersm: status? :)
Mar 04 19:08:05 <laubersm>	done
Mar 04 19:08:23 *	ianweller sets as 'fixed'
Mar 04 19:08:27 *	jjmcd applauds laubersm
Mar 04 19:08:34 <laubersm>	but that one did not cover all the Docs/* and Docs/Drafts pages so we still need a little work on that
Mar 04 19:08:38 <ianweller>	ticket 5: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/5 Help page when a search fails is blank
Mar 04 19:08:55 <ianweller>	laubersm: ok. we'll get to that when it comes
Mar 04 19:09:00 <ianweller>	can i ask someone to take ticket 5 and work on it?
Mar 04 19:09:14 <Sparks>	yes, you can.
Mar 04 19:09:15 <Sparks>	:)
Mar 04 19:09:28 <ianweller>	s/ask/force/
Mar 04 19:09:38 <Sparks>	yes, you can (just not me)
Mar 04 19:09:51 *	ianweller points at ryanlerch 
Mar 04 19:10:06 <ianweller>	i'll see if i can rope someone into that later. moving on.
Mar 04 19:10:06 *	joat (n=joat ip70-174-79-200 hr hr cox net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:10:12 <laubersm>	It is just writing the help page?
Mar 04 19:10:17 <ianweller>	yeah
Mar 04 19:10:23 <ianweller>	or stealing it from mediawiki.org cuz that is public domain
Mar 04 19:10:29 <ianweller>	whatever, really
Mar 04 19:10:30 <laubersm>	Can a draft be dragged from mediawiki and modified?
Mar 04 19:10:44 <ianweller>	yeah
Mar 04 19:10:48 *	quaid sticks his head in for a few minutes to watch
Mar 04 19:10:50 <ianweller>	i can talk about it afterwards
Mar 04 19:10:59 <ianweller>	moving on: ticket 6 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/6 packagemaintainers mass page rename
Mar 04 19:11:04 <joat>	if you have the proper access, a page can be exported from one wiki and imported into the other
Mar 04 19:11:05 <ianweller>	laubersm: status report on that? it says 'mostly done'
Mar 04 19:11:14 <laubersm>	done - close
Mar 04 19:11:18 <ianweller>	woo
Mar 04 19:11:35 <ianweller>	ok here's where i actually need opinion votes :)
Mar 04 19:11:43 <ianweller>	https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/7 "Mediawiki:Mainpage title change request"
Mar 04 19:12:00 <ianweller>	it's been requested by stickster_afk to change the name of "Main Page" to something like "Fedora Project Wiki"
Mar 04 19:12:15 <ianweller>	which would consist of moving the main page to that name and then adjusting the Mediawiki:Mainpage variable.
Mar 04 19:12:19 <ianweller>	+1 or -1 plz
Mar 04 19:12:19 <Sparks>	-1 (just because Paul suggested it)
Mar 04 19:12:24 <quaid>	there is a reason, too
Mar 04 19:12:33 <quaid>	when you see the front page, right now it says 'Main Page'
Mar 04 19:12:33 *	kulll (n=kulll 60 54 109 23) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:12:33 <ianweller>	Sparks: loll
Mar 04 19:12:35 <quaid>	which is short of helpful
Mar 04 19:12:45 <jjmcd>	+1
Mar 04 19:12:49 <quaid>	if it were named [[Fedora Project Wiki]], that would appear as the <h1> on that page.
Mar 04 19:12:53 <laubersm>	I have no problem with the change..  +1
Mar 04 19:12:53 <quaid>	so, I am +1
Mar 04 19:12:59 <danielsmw>	+1
Mar 04 19:13:00 <Sparks>	+1
Mar 04 19:13:03 <radsy>	+1
Mar 04 19:13:14 <ryanlerch>	+!
Mar 04 19:13:23 <ianweller>	i'm calling it approved by FDSCo.
Mar 04 19:13:48 <ianweller>	last one is ticket 8, https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/8 "Watching Categories"
Mar 04 19:14:02 <ianweller>	reported by kanarip. "As per the thread on http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-wiki/2009-February/000138.html, I would like to be able to watch pages being moved from and to Categories. "
Mar 04 19:14:13 <kanarip>	that's me
Mar 04 19:14:16 <ianweller>	iirc there is an extension to do this but i can't remember it right now.
Mar 04 19:14:31 <ianweller>	is this something we want to put interest in or not
Mar 04 19:14:38 <Sparks>	So you are watching pages within a category or pages that change categories?
Mar 04 19:14:50 <quaid>	so this would make it possible to watch Category:Foo and all that happens to pages in the Cat:Foo would be shown?  or just show the entrance/exit from a Cat:?
Mar 04 19:14:51 <kanarip>	Categories that get pages added or removed
Mar 04 19:15:07 <quaid>	ah, that works for category triggers
Mar 04 19:15:12 <quaid>	which spins and features, for example, use.
Mar 04 19:15:16 <jjmcd>	If we are relying more on categories, we should have tools to help
Mar 04 19:15:21 <quaid>	that is, actions are spawned by a category being set or removed.
Mar 04 19:15:23 *	ianweller notes kanarip originally wanted this for spins
Mar 04 19:15:34 <laubersm>	you can already watch the category for changes to the page itself but it does not tell you when a new page shows up in the cat
Mar 04 19:15:50 <ianweller>	+1 or -1 plz
Mar 04 19:15:53 <quaid>	+1
Mar 04 19:15:54 <laubersm>	That could be useful for a number of groups who are using categories to track progress
Mar 04 19:16:03 <Sparks>	ianweller: IMO, if it is something that is easily added to the wiki that doesn't create a nightmare for admin and a Fedorian can get some use out of... +1
Mar 04 19:16:24 <ianweller>	this is a vote for looking into it and testing the extension, fyi
Mar 04 19:16:35 <jjmcd>	How stable/difficult/cranky is this add-in
Mar 04 19:16:46 <ianweller>	jjmcd: that'd be why i would need to research/test it
Mar 04 19:16:55 <laubersm>	+1 to researching
Mar 04 19:16:56 <jjmcd>	+1 for research
Mar 04 19:16:59 <ianweller>	i don't wanna do that if we're not interested.
Mar 04 19:17:02 <ianweller>	i'm just querying interest
Mar 04 19:17:04 <danielsmw>	+1 for R&D
Mar 04 19:17:18 <ianweller>	ok i've got +5, any more?
Mar 04 19:17:36 <kanarip>	+1, fwiw
Mar 04 19:17:37 <kanarip>	;-)
Mar 04 19:17:39 *	ianweller takes Sparks's gavel and bangs it again
Mar 04 19:17:40 <ianweller>	kanarip: he
Mar 04 19:17:41 <ianweller>	heh*
Mar 04 19:17:46 <ianweller>	alright /me assigns ticket to self
Mar 04 19:17:56 <ianweller>	any questions for me? i'm done with the ticket list
Mar 04 19:18:05 <Sparks>	ianweller: I have a question
Mar 04 19:18:10 <ianweller>	shoot
Mar 04 19:18:23 <Sparks>	ianweller: You mentioned above you didn't have permission to do something.  What permission do you need to do what?
Mar 04 19:18:40 <ianweller>	with the new ACL extension i don't have permission to touch the Packaging: and Legal: pages.
Mar 04 19:18:52 <ianweller>	unless i get put in the appropriate groups
Mar 04 19:19:10 <Sparks>	ianweller: but they want you to do work for them?
Mar 04 19:19:17 <ianweller>	i assume so :)
Mar 04 19:19:22 <ianweller>	i'll talk to spot about it.
Mar 04 19:19:29 <ianweller>	i'm almost certain he doesn't want to do it himself
Mar 04 19:19:38 <Sparks>	ianweller: Well, make sure they know that you need to be added to their groups, even temporarily.
Mar 04 19:19:47 <ianweller>	aye aye
Mar 04 19:19:47 <laubersm>	Sparks, it would be a one time shot of a bunch of renaming
Mar 04 19:19:58 <Sparks>	ianweller: I don't know why the wiki czar wouldn't have admin access to everything.
Mar 04 19:19:59 <ianweller>	odds are i'd put wikibot in the groups, not me
Mar 04 19:20:01 <ianweller>	unless i was doing it manually
Mar 04 19:20:03 <Sparks>	:)
Mar 04 19:20:03 <ianweller>	Sparks: i used to with HNP
Mar 04 19:20:04 <ianweller>	;)
Mar 04 19:20:09 <ianweller>	lockdown doesn't have that coded in
Mar 04 19:20:16 <ianweller>	prolly a good idea, less code == less bugs
Mar 04 19:20:20 <ianweller>	in general
Mar 04 19:20:31 <Sparks>	true.
Mar 04 19:20:36 <Sparks>	Okay, anything else for ianweller ?
Mar 04 19:20:55 *	ianweller internally conts to 10
Mar 04 19:20:59 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
Mar 04 19:21:02 <ianweller>	\o/
Mar 04 19:21:04 <Sparks>	ke4qqq: You here?
Mar 04 19:21:36 <Sparks>	I got a message from someone saying something about the CMS earlier this week but I'm pretty sure I had a fever at that point.
Mar 04 19:21:57 <Sparks>	I'll try to follow up before next week so we'll have a progress report to... report.
Mar 04 19:22:00 <jjmcd>	someone said he would be asleep by now
Mar 04 19:22:15 <Sparks>	jjmcd: Isn't he in South Carolina?
Mar 04 19:22:24 <danielsmw>	Yes, unless he's on business
Mar 04 19:22:35 <jjmcd>	David is, but I think the guy with the comment was in the uj
Mar 04 19:22:37 <jjmcd>	uk
Mar 04 19:22:49 <Sparks>	Yes
Mar 04 19:22:51 <Sparks>	Okay
Mar 04 19:22:52 <jjmcd>	he said to get q's to him by 2300
Mar 04 19:22:57 <quaid>	I talked with ... darn, i forget his name
Mar 04 19:23:03 <jjmcd>	me too
Mar 04 19:23:15 <Sparks>	Okay, I'll have something before next week
Mar 04 19:23:15 <quaid>	who is working on the autobuild; I had to install publican on the publictest server
Mar 04 19:23:29 <quaid>	and from that I pinged ke4qqq and abadger1999 about
Mar 04 19:23:39 <quaid>	the package dependency
Mar 04 19:23:47 <quaid>	I'm fairly sure we want the autobuild to happen on a separate server
Mar 04 19:23:57 <quaid>	that does not have a web facing interface.
Mar 04 19:24:09 <quaid>	http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/publican_rough_dependencies_list-20090301.txt
Mar 04 19:24:22 <quaid>	pulls in qt and stuff, not great for a web server
Mar 04 19:24:40 <quaid>	so that was my recommendation to toshio and david, to make another tier.
Mar 04 19:25:53 <Tsagadai>	quaid, what exactly is the issue with those packages?
Mar 04 19:26:09 *	ianweller is gonna be ignoring IRC for a bit, if you need me back in here call my fedora talk extension
Mar 04 19:26:10 *	laubersm thinks it is Simon
Mar 04 19:26:23 <quaid>	Tsagadai: ideally a front-facing web server is paired down to a minimun package set that doesn't include X and a graphical desktop
Mar 04 19:26:38 <quaid>	but I think there is another good reason to put the autobuild on a stand-alone box
Mar 04 19:26:45 <quaid>	doesn't publican peg the CPU when working?
Mar 04 19:26:55 <quaid>	we don't want that happening on the same cpu as the CMS.
Mar 04 19:27:01 <Tsagadai>	yes, for about 30 seconds
Mar 04 19:27:41 <Tsagadai>	but it's single threaded (lawl) so that really shouldn't affect a modern web server
Mar 04 19:27:58 ianweller iarlyy inode0 itamarjp ivazquez ivazquez|laptop ixs 
Mar 04 19:28:06 *	Sparks calls ianweller but only gets his voicemail
Mar 04 19:29:05 <Tsagadai>	I think a stand-alone box would be overkill. If the security aspects of having X11 present but off are overwhelming for the admins perhaps they should try virtualization
Mar 04 19:29:30 <quaid>	Tsagadai: I am merely recommending an approach to Infrastructure; you are welcome to make your own recommendation.
Mar 04 19:29:37 <quaid>	Sparks: I'm done with this item, btw
Mar 04 19:29:41 <jjmcd>	X11 is like a huge albatross for a server
Mar 04 19:29:44 <Sparks>	quaid: Okay.  TU
Mar 04 19:30:18 <Sparks>	Anything else for the CMS?
Mar 04 19:30:25 <Tsagadai>	jjmcd, but when X11 is not actually running it is no more an issue than just disk space
Mar 04 19:30:55 <ianweller>	hi?
Mar 04 19:31:05 <ianweller>	Sparks: cuz i was out of my room :P
Mar 04 19:31:10 <jjmcd>	Sort of like parking a semi in your driveway to protect your miata from the wind
Mar 04 19:31:30 <Sparks>	ianweller: Wiki pages changes <- an old agenda item.  Covered already?
Mar 04 19:31:47 <ianweller>	Sparks: what is 'wiki pages changes'
Mar 04 19:32:04 <Sparks>	ianweller: I don't know.  It was an old item.  I'm claiming it as being done.
Mar 04 19:32:10 <ianweller>	kill it
Mar 04 19:32:12 <Sparks>	Moving on...
Mar 04 19:32:16 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes
Mar 04 19:32:42 <Sparks>	This is ryanlerch and jjmcd's project
Mar 04 19:32:50 <Sparks>	Any updates?
Mar 04 19:32:50 <ryanlerch>	http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/publish/
Mar 04 19:33:08 <ryanlerch>	the release notes should be in line with what is on the wiki...
Mar 04 19:33:31 <ryanlerch>	going to work with rudi on getting the source merged into the git tree...
Mar 04 19:33:45 <jjmcd>	I am going to move my work page from Jjmcd/Drafts to DevTools which will be a big jump
Mar 04 19:34:08 <jjmcd>	right nw there is a lot of raw data there, but if it's in the open maybe I can draw some help/comments
Mar 04 19:34:26 <jjmcd>	Over 100 dev tools new/changed
Mar 04 19:34:49 <jjmcd>	gcl is making a 4+ year jump, but the project page leaves no clue as to what is happening
Mar 04 19:35:00 <jjmcd>	Jerry James agreed to do some research for me
Mar 04 19:35:20 <jjmcd>	Also, Chitlesh Goorah agreed to provide some data on EDA which we overlooked in F10 RNs
Mar 04 19:35:33 <jjmcd>	Annnd still more
Mar 04 19:35:51 <jjmcd>	I pushed F10 update, marked it LIVE but no joy on d.fp.o
Mar 04 19:36:09 <jjmcd>	Been fighting some hardware failures so havent pursued too aggressively
Mar 04 19:36:23 <Sparks>	jjmcd: That's a quaid thing... (the d.fp.o issue)
Mar 04 19:36:37 *	quaid looks back in
Mar 04 19:36:49 <jjmcd>	Yeah, he helped me get it into git but I haven't grabbed him after it didn't show
Mar 04 19:36:57 <ryanlerch>	There are also lots of OPEN beats, and a lot of assigned beats that need confirmation
Mar 04 19:36:59 <ryanlerch>	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats
Mar 04 19:37:00 <jjmcd>	errrr, cvs rather
Mar 04 19:37:05 *	ldimaggi_ has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 04 19:37:09 *	ldimaggi_ (n=ldimaggi c-76-19-171-76 hsd1 ma comcast net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:37:13 <quaid>	yeah, recruiting is probably the most important thing right now
Mar 04 19:37:15 *	dychen_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Mar 04 19:37:20 <quaid>	those beats don't fill themselves :)
Mar 04 19:37:31 <quaid>	jjmcd: I could just do it, but I wanted you to be able to :(
Mar 04 19:37:36 <quaid>	update docs.fp.o that is
Mar 04 19:37:44 *	dychen_ (n=dingyich d122-105-169-44 rdl15 qld optusnet com au) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:37:53 <jjmcd>	quaid: I thought i did what i needed to but no joy
Mar 04 19:38:03 <ryanlerch>	i was thinking of removing all the assignments that are yet to be confirmed and putting them back to OPEN, is that okay?
Mar 04 19:38:11 <jjmcd>	but like i said, i still have some things to discover
Mar 04 19:38:49 *	iarlyy has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 04 19:39:02 <jjmcd>	On recruiting, I think my posting may have done some good.  I noticed a number of new volunteers to l10n a couple days later (lots of phil and indonesians read that forum)
Mar 04 19:39:13 <jjmcd>	but no joy on beat writers \
Mar 04 19:39:40 <ryanlerch>	we also need dev contacts...
Mar 04 19:39:46 <Sparks>	jjmcd: Can you post the link to the beats so everyone can take a look to see if there is anything they would like to step up to take?
Mar 04 19:39:56 <ryanlerch>	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats
Mar 04 19:39:58 <jjmcd>	Good plan
Mar 04 19:40:15 <laubersm>	can we put all the beats in a category?
Mar 04 19:40:54 *	vonbrand has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Mar 04 19:42:06 <jjmcd>	ryanlerch we might need to add a couple of beats back in, but i'm struggling with organization
Mar 04 19:42:17 <ryanlerch>	which beats?
Mar 04 19:42:45 <ryanlerch>	i am happy to keep the orgainisation in the docbook, and treat the beats as drafts of sections...
Mar 04 19:42:54 <jjmcd>	eclipse in, I took it out, and add in Haskell, we have a writer for that.  Trouble is, Eclipse fits in with IDSs and Haskell scattered about
Mar 04 19:43:03 <jjmcd>	That may make more sense
Mar 04 19:43:10 <ryanlerch>	it is easier to play with the depth of sections in docbook
Mar 04 19:43:30 <ryanlerch>	once i get the source into git, you can play with it also...
Mar 04 19:43:32 *	SgtDitt (n=SgtDitt ip68-224-89-6 lv lv cox net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:43:59 <jjmcd>	s/IDSs/IDEs/
Mar 04 19:44:15 <jjmcd>	yeah, hard to sort it in the wiki
Mar 04 19:45:17 <SgtDitt>	hello all? soory i'm late
Mar 04 19:45:18 *	Gaaruto has quit ("maj et shutdown")
Mar 04 19:45:30 <SgtDitt>	lol, or missed it
Mar 04 19:45:48 <jjmcd>	No, we're going on about release notes
Mar 04 19:45:48 <ryanlerch>	IMO, we should pull out the preview thing below the beats assignments, and just have the mockup as the place for people to check the current status of the release notes...
Mar 04 19:46:37 <jjmcd>	Trouble is you can't make a change and then see it right away
Mar 04 19:46:55 <jjmcd>	But it would make organizing easier
Mar 04 19:47:12 <ryanlerch>	but it will still be in the actual beat page...
Mar 04 19:47:13 <quaid>	the preview could be moved to another page, less distracting, etc.
Mar 04 19:48:00 <jjmcd>	quaid - the issue is more keeping up the structure in two places
Mar 04 19:48:04 <ryanlerch>	well, the preview is kinda confusing anyway, because it is such an effort to sort out the sections etc, and so much work.
Mar 04 19:48:05 <quaid>	oic
Mar 04 19:48:59 <laubersm>	if they are all in a category then you can see all the pieces lexographically, edit the one you need, then when it gets put together it goes in order....
Mar 04 19:49:31 <laubersm>	Category:Release Notes Drafts   or Category:Documentation Beats   whatever...
Mar 04 19:49:49 <Sparks>	I thought they were in their own category.
Mar 04 19:50:00 <Sparks>	Ten minutes warning, BTW.
Mar 04 19:50:20 <ryanlerch>	but when you move sections up or down you need to manually change ==headers== to ===headers=== and vice versa
Mar 04 19:50:30 *	bpepple|lt (n=bpepple|@rrcs-70-61-160-147.central.biz.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:50:56 <laubersm>	Oh?
Mar 04 19:51:13 <jjmcd>	Yeah, oh
Mar 04 19:51:14 <quaid>	yeah, there really isn't that much value in trying to mirror the wiki beats to the final structure.
Mar 04 19:51:21 <quaid>	I don't think it matters to writers; they only care about their beat
Mar 04 19:51:30 *	warren has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 19:51:35 <quaid>	the preview then becomes superfluous to them.
Mar 04 19:51:57 <jjmcd>	So yeah, probably better to just get rid of it
Mar 04 19:52:10 <ryanlerch>	good, will remove it later today...
Mar 04 19:52:35 <laubersm>	Some are in a cat - many are not...
Mar 04 19:52:39 <ryanlerch>	on a side note, i have been playing around with some scripts to generate package manifests:
Mar 04 19:52:47 <quaid>	do you all have any more actions around recruiting beat writers?
Mar 04 19:52:48 <ryanlerch>	http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/package_list/html/
Mar 04 19:53:09 <ryanlerch>	that is a list of all 11 000+ packages in fedora everything....
Mar 04 19:53:28 <ryanlerch>	it is just something i am working on... :P
Mar 04 19:53:36 <quaid>	ryanlerch: pretty cool
Mar 04 19:53:42 <jjmcd>	Now the interesting bit is assigning them to beats
Mar 04 19:53:49 *	ianweller has no clue why we would ever want all the packages and their descriptions in the release notes
Mar 04 19:54:01 <ryanlerch>	not really release notes...
Mar 04 19:54:14 *	quaid has done his recruiting shout out and now returns to packing
Mar 04 19:54:15 <jjmcd>	ianweller: The beat writer often needs help figuring out what it in his beat, tho
Mar 04 19:54:34 <ryanlerch>	they are sorted by the RPM group btw...
Mar 04 19:54:47 <laubersm>	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Release_Notes  has some of the beats  but not all - I'm not sure that is the best cat name for them though
Mar 04 19:55:50 <jjmcd>	Indeed, a lot of those arent beats.  We should have a documentation_beats cat
Mar 04 19:56:46 <laubersm>	jjmcd, go to it :)
Mar 04 19:57:20 <Sparks>	Okay, anything else for this?
Mar 04 19:57:40 <laubersm>	Also what are the Docs/Beats/* pages?  many are not in any cat
Mar 04 19:57:44 <laubersm>	Are they the old names?
Mar 04 19:57:45 <jjmcd>	3 min for IG, UG, SG, SELG
Mar 04 19:57:54 <jjmcd>	Yes
Mar 04 19:57:56 <ryanlerch>	we cant go overtime?
Mar 04 19:58:02 <Sparks>	We can, I guess.
Mar 04 19:58:10 <jjmcd>	now named Documentation_xxx_beat
Mar 04 19:58:20 <laubersm>	we may have to go back to docs but I can stay for overtime
Mar 04 19:58:57 <laubersm>	jjmcd, then all the DOcs/Beats/* pages can be archived?
Mar 04 19:59:01 <laubersm>	:)
Mar 04 19:59:28 <jjmcd>	I believe it.  I thinkl they are all just redirects ... hard to tell
Mar 04 20:00:04 <laubersm>	Not all - we can talk later and I'll point you to the ones I was wondering about
Mar 04 20:00:11 *	laubersm is done planting wiki cleanup ideas
Mar 04 20:01:06 *	jjmcd will be trying to make more headway on DevTools tomorrow, but Friday is for fixing the laptop (assuming the part arrives as promised)
Mar 04 20:01:55 <Sparks>	Okay, let's move to the "anything else" category and then move this discussion over to #f-docs.
Mar 04 20:02:20 *	Parafeed has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 20:02:28 <SgtDitt>	I saw a note in the mailing list that the AG may getg shelved. is this due to lack of updates?
Mar 04 20:02:31 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion
Mar 04 20:02:37 *	danielsmw wanted to talk about the UG a bit but can do that in f-docs
Mar 04 20:02:46 <Sparks>	danielsmw: Go for it.
Mar 04 20:02:47 <jjmcd>	I think lack of owner
Mar 04 20:02:59 <SgtDitt>	ok.
Mar 04 20:03:07 <SgtDitt>	I'll pick it up
Mar 04 20:03:08 <jjmcd>	If yo are volunteering tho
Mar 04 20:03:12 <jjmcd>	Bravo
Mar 04 20:03:29 *	Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - User Guide
Mar 04 20:03:35 <danielsmw>	Okay well
Mar 04 20:03:45 <danielsmw>	I wanted to bring up a question more than an update really
Mar 04 20:04:01 <danielsmw>	Do we have any formal documents or guides focused toward new users besides the UG?
Mar 04 20:04:14 <danielsmw>	The reason I ask
Mar 04 20:04:22 <danielsmw>	I that I think it would be useful to have...
Mar 04 20:04:30 <danielsmw>	I guess... a *nix-theory document
Mar 04 20:04:46 <danielsmw>	The UG gives new users a practical cookbook for doing things on Fedora
Mar 04 20:05:09 <danielsmw>	but it's hard to be a proficient linux user without understanding at least the philosohphy behind how certain things work.
Mar 04 20:05:15 <danielsmw>	Do we have anyhting like this?
Mar 04 20:05:26 <danielsmw>	s/anyhting/anything/
Mar 04 20:05:40 <SgtDitt>	seems a bit beyond the scope of the docs project.
Mar 04 20:05:41 <Sparks>	I don't think there is a problem including some basic *nix usage but we shouldn't sway too far from Fedora.
Mar 04 20:05:55 <danielsmw>	Sparks: Agreed, should have clarified.
Mar 04 20:06:01 <SgtDitt>	basic, intermediate and advance use of fedora is fitting...
Mar 04 20:06:18 <jjmcd>	Wouldn't this help bridge the gulf between the UG and the stuff aimed at the pony tail and rope belt set?
Mar 04 20:06:44 <danielsmw>	I mean, I don't think we need a volume on Unix Philosphy.
Mar 04 20:06:44 <Sparks>	HAHAHA...  pony tail and rope belt set?
Mar 04 20:07:00 <danielsmw>	lol
Mar 04 20:07:19 <danielsmw>	Yeah, I mean I think it would be useful to at least introduce the CLI, maybe the process model, etc.
Mar 04 20:07:28 <danielsmw>	just at a basic level with metaphors and such.
Mar 04 20:07:33 <Sparks>	danielsmw: Things like "ll does this" isn't a bad thing even though it is a common bash command
Mar 04 20:07:39 <danielsmw>	so new users can at least hope to grasp more advanced commands
Mar 04 20:08:00 <danielsmw>	Sparks: can you reword that?  I don't see what you're saying.
Mar 04 20:08:00 <Sparks>	+1
Mar 04 20:08:04 <joat>	jjmcd is showing his age with the pony tail and rope belt comment
Mar 04 20:08:16 <Sparks>	joat: Apparently
Mar 04 20:08:21 <jjmcd>	LOL -- Datatrieve developers
Mar 04 20:08:42 <Sparks>	danielsmw: I think you are on the right track.  Just because something isn't specific to Fedora doesn't mean it shouldn't be explained in the FUG
Mar 04 20:08:53 <danielsmw>	Sparks: yeah, i figured that out before you replied, sorry. :-)
Mar 04 20:09:09 <danielsmw>	Anyway, that was my thought.  I blogged about it but didn't get much response.
Mar 04 20:09:15 <danielsmw>	I'll discuss it in IRC again later.
Mar 04 20:09:20 <danielsmw>	That's all I had. :-)
Mar 04 20:09:22 <jjmcd>	Seems like there was something on the list, did you post that?
Mar 04 20:09:24 <Sparks>	Go forth and prosper...  :)
Mar 04 20:09:41 <danielsmw>	jjmcd: Sort of
Mar 04 20:09:42 <joat>	I think that it should be located in a wiki so that it can be referenced by other pages
Mar 04 20:09:47 <jjmcd>	Suggestion, though.  Go out and recruit some staff so we can keep it up
Mar 04 20:09:57 <danielsmw>	Back then I was thinking about just adding more advanced topics in general, but I've refined that idea, I think.
Mar 04 20:10:01 <joat>	"to learn more about how to save and exit vi, see such-and-such"
Mar 04 20:10:22 <jjmcd>	rm -f /bin/vi
Mar 04 20:10:29 <joat>	when talking about editing a config file
Mar 04 20:10:34 <danielsmw>	jjmcd: Why would you do that?!
Mar 04 20:10:46 <laubersm>	based on a conversation in ambassadors earlier today - ssh and scp basics would be useful.
Mar 04 20:10:47 <jjmcd>	solves the problem of exiting vi
Mar 04 20:10:54 <danielsmw>	lol
Mar 04 20:10:58 <SgtDitt>	love vi/vim
Mar 04 20:11:15 <jjmcd>	yeah, ssh/scp are pretty basic, but not widely understood by newbies
Mar 04 20:11:36 <jjmcd>	You know what RMS said about that
Mar 04 20:11:37 *	jsmidt (n=jsmidt vp126161 reshsg uci edu) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 20:11:46 *	nirik would like to butt in and note there are still some open slots for fedora classes in the classroom this weekend. ;) Docs topics would be great. 
Mar 04 20:12:26 *	jjmcd would love to do something if he could find another dozen hours in the day
Mar 04 20:12:31 *	laubersm will be at basketball tourney (assuming we win Fri)
Mar 04 20:13:06 *	laubersm should clarify - laubersm watches and only wishes she could play
Mar 04 20:13:56 <Sparks>	Okay, anything else meeting worthy?
Mar 04 20:14:39 <jjmcd>	what can we do to help laubersm's team loose?
Mar 04 20:14:46 <Sparks>	jjmcd: vaseline?
Mar 04 20:14:47 <danielsmw>	lol
Mar 04 20:15:06 <jjmcd>	that would be cruel Sparks
Mar 04 20:15:18 <Sparks>	okay...  
Mar 04 20:15:19 <Sparks>	5
Mar 04 20:15:21 <Sparks>	4
Mar 04 20:15:24 <Sparks>	3
Mar 04 20:15:26 <Sparks>	2
Mar 04 20:15:30 <Sparks>	1
Mar 04 20:15:34 <Sparks>	0.5
Mar 04 20:15:38 <Sparks>	0.25
Mar 04 20:15:42 <Sparks>	Thanks everyone for coming!
Mar 04 20:15:42 <Sparks>	</meeting>

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