Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 IRC log

[Eric Christensen]

00:02:48 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
00:02:53 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
00:02:54 * Sparks 
00:03:29 * rudi is here
00:03:40 * ianweller 
00:04:16 * quaid too
00:06:32 <quaid> hail hail etc.
00:06:42 * Sparks waits a few more seconds for folks
00:07:05 <Sparks> #topic Last week's action items
00:07:11 <Sparks> Okay... this should be interesting...
00:07:53 <Sparks> Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm
00:08:16 <Sparks> Okay, I sent a message to the News folks and didn't really hear anything back from them, IIRC.
00:08:32 <Sparks> I think they'll be set with what we're planning.
00:08:51 <Sparks> rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm
00:09:03 <quaid> I agree, Marketing is finding it sufficient with similar needs, I reckon.
00:09:10 <Sparks> rudi: That is pretty much ready to go, correctly?
00:09:24 <Sparks> errr... correct?
00:09:28 * quaid rubs his hands gleefully
00:09:34 <rudi> Sparks -- yes. I have a draft that legal is happy with
00:09:50 <Sparks> rudi: Excellent.  Let's push forward with that, then.
00:10:10 <Sparks> Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm
00:10:18 <Sparks> Okay, I haven't had a chance to even think about that.
00:10:29 <Sparks> Can someone pick this task up for me?
00:11:20 <Sparks> We don't actually need all three packaged but it would be nice as a long term goal.  We do need one of them packaged, though.
00:12:25 <Sparks> #action Sparks to send an email to the list to pass this task on.
00:12:40 <Sparks> #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
00:12:55 <rudi> Sparks -- I have some news there
00:13:02 <Sparks> rudi: Go ahead
00:13:33 <rudi> I have approval from Red Hat legal to share the bulk of our external Style Guide
00:13:57 * itbegins is here now
00:14:06 <quaid> rudi: srsly?
00:14:21 <Sparks> Very cool
00:14:23 <rudi> So I have agreed to put together a subset of it for review; after that, we can share it.
00:14:29 <quaid> rudi++
00:15:09 <quaid> rudi: am I correct that this is the RHT internal style guide/"word usage" document?
00:15:20 <rudi> Yes -- those documents
00:15:31 * quaid faints with happiness
00:15:42 * Sparks fans quaid
00:16:12 <Sparks> rudi: Any idea when this might be available?
00:16:24 <rudi> There is material there that represents internal Red Hat legal advice and brand considerations that we will not be able to share -- but for the most part, that stuff is irrelevant to anyone else who wants to use it.
00:16:48 <rudi> Sparks -- at the moment, I'm bogged down in the preparations for RHEL5.4, which is why I've been quiet on the Fedora front for the last few weeks
00:16:55 * quaid sorry for the drama, it's just good stuff and a nice leg up for everyone
00:17:08 <rudi> I expect to have a draft together for legal to review within the next 2 weeks or so
00:17:29 <quaid> rudi: feel free to draw on me in any way, such as helping pre-review before legal, etc.
00:17:38 <rudi> quaid -- thanks
00:17:43 <quaid> aye, thank you
00:18:15 <Sparks> rudi: That's cool.
00:18:24 <Sparks> rudi: BTW, when is 5.4 going to hit the streets?
00:18:40 <rudi> I'd have to check to see what the public is supposed to know :)
00:19:11 <Sparks> Gees...
00:19:19 <Sparks> I have many servers that are aching to upgrade
00:19:20 <Sparks> :)
00:19:24 <rudi> Wikipedia doesn't know ;)
00:19:28 <Sparks> Okay, moving on...
00:19:46 <Sparks> #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm
00:20:06 <Sparks> #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm
00:20:18 <Sparks> ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement
00:20:19 <Sparks> DONE
00:20:30 <Sparks> jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs
00:20:33 <Sparks> DONE and found none
00:20:36 <quaid> Sparks: I find Wikipedia makes good guesses there :)
00:21:02 <Sparks> I think this is all the old business.  Does anyone have anything else that is old business/tasks?
00:21:10 <quaid> whoops, withdrawn :)
00:21:42 <Sparks> quaid: Ya... we were just talking about that today.
00:21:47 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
00:21:52 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq
00:22:04 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
00:22:13 <Sparks> I don't think ke4qqq is here tonight...
00:22:27 <Sparks> Does anyone have an update on Zikula?
00:22:33 <itbegins> The instance for marketing is moving along fast
00:22:39 <itbegins> but that will pass by the blockers for docs
00:22:56 <itbegins> on the plus side, puppetization etc will be partly done for docs purposes by marketing
00:23:02 <Sparks> +1
00:23:06 <itbegins> The same with performance checks etc
00:23:22 <Sparks> That's good.
00:23:45 <itbegins> So, IMHO if we can get the last few modules packaged, a roll out for immediately following the F12 change freeze is perfectly achievable
00:24:03 <Sparks> itbegins: Can you provide a delta of what we need versus what we have, package wise, to stand up the docs instance?
00:24:33 * quaid calls for a wiki page to be created!
00:24:50 <itbegins> packaging side, we need one of mediashare or mediaattach packaged
00:24:54 <itbegins> otherwise you have no media manager
00:25:05 * Sparks points quaid to the link at the top of this topic discussion
00:25:21 <itbegins> and preferably one editor - unless you like hard coding HTML
00:25:32 <itbegins> and of course we need the theme packaged
00:25:45 <itbegins> With those three, I think you are ready to go
00:25:52 * Sparks thinks the theme is packaged and ready
00:25:58 <itbegins> and over time we can upgrade the instance with more features as they come online
00:26:11 <itbegins> Sparks: yes, but I wouldn't call the files currently in git production ready
00:26:24 <itbegins> I made that theme using File>Save as in Firefox, and a quick n dirty conversion
00:26:27 <quaid> heh
00:26:36 <itbegins> there will be all sorts of useful images and possibly css missing from that
00:26:53 <itbegins> the correct way to do it would be to convert based on the files currently in the websites git repository
00:26:54 <quaid> itbegins: I think we showed it to mizmo though, I'll make sure she's on the bz for that package review
00:27:19 <quaid> ... and anyone know that bz # for the theme?
00:27:26 <itbegins> If Mizmo approves, then I defer to her - she's also runnign point for the marketing team on design issues
00:28:05 <itbegins> Content and Mediashare are blocking on the window library
00:28:30 <itbegins> it just so happens I've had experience with the replacement suggested by stickster_afk in the last couple of weeks at work, so I could in theory make those changes for you
00:28:51 <itbegins> But it will take me some time to get up to speed with the modules and figure out the needed changes
00:29:19 <itbegins> Equally there may already be someone working on making that very change
00:30:29 * Sparks is back
00:30:36 <Sparks> Sorry, storm and power outage
00:30:49 <Sparks> Are we done with the CMS discussion?
00:31:10 <quaid> I'm updating the modules list a bit from this discussion
00:31:14 <Sparks> #chair quaid
00:31:22 <Sparks> quaid: Excellent, thank you.
00:31:44 <quaid> #task need to resolve theme package, review, and Design Team help; borrow from FI work?
00:32:01 <itbegins> Sparks: http://www.fpaste.org/CJke/
00:32:17 <itbegins> Log from when you last typed
00:32:49 <Sparks> itbegins:  Thanks!
00:33:02 <itbegins> Anyway, if we're agreed we're going to miss Fedora 12 for the docs instance, then there is much less pressure on timescales for the CMS project
00:33:29 <Sparks> quaid: Can you talk to mizmo tomorrow and make sure she's on the same pages as us?
00:33:37 <quaid> Sparks: got it
00:33:42 <Sparks> itbegins: Agreed.
00:33:47 <Sparks> quaid: Cool, thanks.
00:34:03 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme
00:34:34 <Sparks> Anything else on the CMS/Zikula?
00:35:08 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license rollout.\
00:35:19 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
00:35:51 <Sparks> rudi: So we now have a happy version of the license page for Publican, correct?
00:36:05 <rudi> Sparks -- correct
00:36:18 <Sparks> rudi: I'm assuming you are updating this in Publican 1.0... can you patch the 0.44 version as well?
00:36:35 <quaid> are we subject to Infrastructure freeze for this change?
00:36:41 <quaid> i.e. wiki, websites, etc.
00:36:50 <Sparks> maybe
00:36:56 <rudi> Sparks -- I'm not sure -- I will have to check with Jeff (who is on leave at the moment)
00:37:05 <Sparks> ianweller: What's the procedure for updating the license of the wiki?
00:37:15 <Sparks> rudi: Okay, that's cool.
00:37:22 <ianweller> we stuff some variables in LocalSettings.php
00:37:25 <ianweller> which is in puppet, in our case
00:37:34 <rudi> I suspect that it may just end up in the "unofficial" patch that I maintain on my Fedorapeople page
00:37:35 <ianweller> and then it adds the cute little button to the bottom automatically i believe
00:37:43 <Sparks> #action rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0
00:37:50 <rudi> ianweller -- what button?
00:38:06 <Sparks> uh oh
00:38:08 <Sparks> :)
00:38:14 <quaid> is there a chance that a current version of Fedora won't have Publican 1.0?
00:38:22 <ianweller> rudi: the cc icon
00:38:27 <ianweller> http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-sa/3.0/88x31.png
00:38:28 <ianweller> that thing
00:38:30 <rudi> ianweller -- we can't use the icon
00:38:36 <quaid> +1 to button website
00:38:40 <ianweller> *thud*
00:38:42 <quaid> not for publican
00:38:46 <Sparks> rudi: I'd prefer that the license information go into the official release but I know you know that.
00:38:48 <ianweller> well we can for the wiki
00:38:52 <rudi> We can't use it for the wiki
00:38:55 <ianweller> why not
00:39:03 <quaid> rudi: I understood Richard to be talking about the legal notice for Publican
00:39:04 <ianweller> sure we can't redistribute it but we're not
00:39:10 <ianweller> we're just hotlinking it
00:39:15 <quaid> right because of the redistrib.
00:39:19 <rudi> quaid -- if you read his emails, he talks about both
00:39:34 <rudi> ianweller -- yes, but it's an unfree element appearing on a Fedora page
00:39:43 <rudi> Therefore, we can't use it.
00:39:48 <Sparks> I have a problem with his interpretation of not using it on the wiki...
00:39:58 <ianweller> augghhghhggghsdoagosrgjwjgoajldfjksfakgherjkojar <-- what is going through my mind right now
00:39:59 <quaid> um
00:40:01 <Sparks> the Fedora logo is an unfree element and yet we use it on the webpages
00:40:06 <ianweller> that's correct!
00:40:07 <quaid> so is ServerBeach's logo
00:40:12 <ianweller> fedora logo is non-redistributable
00:40:15 <rudi> Sparks -- yes, but it's an unfree element that we own
00:40:16 <quaid> and Dell's
00:40:23 <ianweller> we don't own the dell logo
00:40:34 <quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors
00:40:35 <Sparks> and we are using the CC logo per its terms of use
00:40:52 <quaid> ok, I'll re-read richard's email, and then we'll ask him for clarification.
00:41:15 * Sparks finds it increadibly ironic that the very symbol of freedom is an unfree element.
00:41:25 <quaid> well, it's a trademark, in't?
00:41:32 <Sparks> yeah
00:41:34 <quaid> Fedora is for freedom, but our logo sure ain't free
00:41:42 <Sparks> exactly
00:43:19 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki.
00:43:42 <Sparks> ianweller: So is the infrastructure freeze going to affect the license change?
00:43:52 <ianweller> yyyyyyyyyno it should be minor
00:43:53 <ianweller> ricky: ping ^^
00:44:00 <ricky> ianweller: pong
00:44:27 <ricky> Ugh, are we going to run into pain for our sponsors page?
00:44:29 <ianweller> ricky: if i send a patch to the infra list saying "here's what i'm doing to change the license on the wiki" and it gets 2 +1s then it's ok during a freeze right?
00:44:37 <ianweller> ricky: well that wasn't why i pinged you but possibly :(
00:44:52 <ricky> Yup as long as it's low risk and doesn't have a high chance of breaking anything else :-)
00:45:00 <ricky> So more than likely, yes :-)
00:45:22 <ianweller> yeh it prolly won't!
00:46:24 <Sparks> okay...
00:46:31 <Sparks> anything else about the license change?
00:47:11 <rudi> It might be worth checking with Richard Fontana about the logos on the sponsors page
00:47:32 <Sparks> quaid: Can you tack that onto your discussion?
00:47:38 <quaid> rudi: "These are not the droids you are looking for."
00:47:43 <quaid> Sparks: "These are not the droids you are looking for."
00:47:58 <Sparks> quaid: huh?
00:47:59 <quaid> "Move along"
00:48:06 <Sparks> roger
00:48:20 <Sparks> #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki
00:48:29 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation
00:48:43 <Sparks> For anyone looking for something more to do...  ^^^
00:48:53 <quaid> get out your machete
00:49:26 <Sparks> Yeah...  we probably need to go through that and see what's stale
00:49:48 <Sparks> Anything else on this?
00:49:56 <quaid> Hint: if it's in Archive:, it's stale
00:50:10 <quaid> do we want to do something about it for real?
00:50:15 <Sparks> sure
00:50:24 <quaid> i.e., do an online sprint some time?
00:50:34 <quaid> do we have any "lulls" in the F12 storm?
00:50:48 <Sparks> Not especially
00:50:50 <Sparks> :)
00:51:18 <Sparks> I think a lot of what I'm seeing in the Archive: can be deleted/removed.
00:51:39 <Sparks> It appears that it has been incorporated into a DocBook guide
00:52:10 <quaid> OK, maybe a post-F12 fun activity
00:52:18 <quaid> we'll all buy our own beer, etc.
00:52:31 <Sparks> ianweller: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Delete
00:52:51 <Sparks> ianweller: What happened to the delete policy?  There are 97 pages ready to be blasted!
00:52:51 <ianweller> yay more work
00:52:58 <ianweller> Sparks: i don't do anything about it until someone mentions it
00:52:59 <ianweller> ^_^
00:53:19 <ianweller> so i'll do something about it
00:53:42 <Sparks> ianweller: I know you have a big red button over there that nukes all those pages
00:53:57 <ianweller> no but ricky does, it's called "nuke db2"
00:54:02 <ianweller> ;)
00:54:15 <Sparks> Yikes
00:54:32 <ianweller> yeah i'll go thruogh those tonight just for you
00:54:36 * ianweller stops holding up the meeting
00:54:45 <Sparks> Okay, so that should clear up some items... :)
00:54:50 <Sparks> Anything else?
00:55:27 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
00:55:37 <Sparks> Anyone have a guide that is in need?
00:56:09 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
00:56:16 <Sparks> Okay, I have one...
00:56:51 <Sparks> I've Publicanized (apparently not the first person to do this) the old Accessibility information that used to go out with the RNs.
00:57:17 <Sparks> It is on fh.org and I'm going to start updating it as I get time.
00:57:42 <Sparks> Feel free to check it out and provide patches!  :)
00:57:54 <Sparks> Does anyone else have a new guide?
00:58:48 <Sparks> #topic All other business
00:58:55 <Sparks> Okay, does anyone have anything else?
00:59:35 <Sparks> Anyone?
00:59:37 <Sparks> Anything?
00:59:54 <itbegins> *silence*
01:00:18 <itbegins> Good timing
01:00:29 <Sparks> Okay... thanks everyone for coming tonight!  Don't forget to tip your wait staff.
01:00:33 <Sparks> #endmeeting

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