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Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 IRC log



20:00 < Sparks> #startmeeting
20:00 < Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Meeting
20:00 < fedbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC.  The chair is Sparks.
20:00 < fedbot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link 
                #topic.
20:00 < Sparks> #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
20:00 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to:  (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:01 < radsy> oooh, that's cool
20:01 < Sparks> Roll Call
20:01  * Sparks is here
20:01  * radsy is here
20:02  * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z
20:02 -!- perspectival [n=perspect nat/redhat/x-89dafd55555a2d14] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:03 -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich nat/redhat/x-ac59ff8e41efadde] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:03 -!- rudi [n=rlandman nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:03  * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe
20:03  * rudi is here
20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd:  me too
20:03 < jjmcd> Japanese Game Show?
20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes
20:03 < jjmcd> ;-)
20:05  * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves
20:05 < Sparks> sure!
20:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's get started...
20:05 < Sparks> #topic Meeting procedures
20:05 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:06 < Sparks> You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes.  Fedbot is a new bot that automates some 
                channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well.  You can read more about this bot at 
                http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06  * quaid is here now
20:06 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel.
20:06 < Sparks> To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands:
20:06 < Sparks> info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be 
                logged in the minutes.
20:06 < Sparks> action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. 
                (nicknames are case-sensitive)
20:06 < Sparks> idea - Add an idea to the minutes.
20:06 < Sparks> help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. 
                (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot)
20:06 < Sparks> link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the 
                link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 
20:06 < Sparks> All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea).
20:06  * Sparks pauses for any query...
20:06 < quaid> what does the result look like?
20:07  * zoglesby is here
20:07 < quaid> I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff
20:07  * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 
20:07 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know.  I guess we'll see
20:07 < quaid> ah, Ok
20:07 < nirik> output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html
20:07 < quaid> so it's somewhat data capture for now?  we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet?
20:08 < quaid> ah!
20:08 < Sparks> Hmmm...
20:08 < Sparks> Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to.
20:08 < quaid> ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation
20:09 < nirik> not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;)
20:09 < nirik> if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on.
20:09 < Sparks> nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour.
20:09 < nirik> sounds good. ;)
20:10 < Sparks> Okay...
20:10 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel.
20:10 < Sparks> I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for 
                our meetings.  I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time.
20:10 < Sparks> Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions:
20:10 < Sparks> 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt
20:10 < Sparks> 2. If you have a question, type "?"
20:10 < Sparks> 3. If you need to speak, type "!"
20:10 < Sparks> 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof"
20:10 < Sparks> 5. If you agree, type "+1" 
20:11 < Sparks> Any questions or comments?
20:11 < quaid> hmmm
20:11 < quaid> I won't say no personally, but
20:11 < quaid> I've found those to be most helpful where the common language
20:11 < quaid> is not the first language spoken of participants.
20:12 < quaid> so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers
20:12 < quaid> but it does interrupt flow
20:12 < quaid> <eof>
20:12 < ianweller> +1
20:12 < Sparks> Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not.
20:13 < radsy> +1
20:13 < ianweller> (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid)
20:13 < quaid> Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah
20:13 < quaid> it's a kindness
20:14 < Sparks> I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are 
                typing something
20:15 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff?
20:16 < radsy> no
20:16 < rudi> no <eof>
20:16 < jjmcd> ^Z
20:16 < Sparks> #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report
20:16 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:16 < Sparks> We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson.  We had a couple of participants that 
                remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson.
20:17 < Sparks> Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD.
20:17 < Sparks> Has everyone had a change to look over the notes?
20:17 < Sparks> And does anyone have any questions about the FAD?
20:17 < jjmcd> ?
20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes
20:18 < jjmcd> Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken?
20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not as of yet.  But we should.  If you want to take something then go for it.
20:19 < jjmcd> !
20:19 < Sparks> Oh I see this going badly
20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: yes?
20:19 < jjmcd> We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners
20:19 < Sparks> +1
20:20 < jjmcd> eof
20:20 < zoglesby> +1
20:20 < quaid> ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police 
               a bit :)
20:20 < Sparks> Yes...  
20:20 < Sparks> I guess that's kinda what I meant.
20:20 < Sparks> quaid: Thank you
20:20 < jjmcd> !
20:20 < jjmcd> Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me
20:20 < Sparks> :)
20:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done.
20:21 -!- uclugLee [n=Lee 75-130-149-037 dhcp-v spbg sc charter com] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:21 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma 201 102 115 156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:21 -!- SMParrish [n=quassel cpe-069-134-255-095 nc res rr com] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:21 < zoglesby> ?
20:21 < uclugLee> Greetings and salutations.
20:21 < Sparks> Yes Zach
20:22 < zoglesby> Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD?
20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: Kinda...  I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help.
20:22 < zoglesby> I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while
20:22 < zoglesby> ok
20:22 < zoglesby> eof
20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line
20:23 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma 189 143 130 221] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:23 < Sparks> Anything else for the FAD?
20:24 < Sparks> #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]]
20:24 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:24 < Sparks> jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic?
20:24 < jjmcd> Well I think we covered a lot Sunday
20:25 < jjmcd> We have some new ideas on RN's
20:25 -!- constanton [n=constant athedsl-4503894 home otenet gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20:25 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma 189 143 130 221] has quit [Client Quit]
20:25 < jjmcd> Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l
20:25 < jjmcd> We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there)
20:26 < jjmcd> Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-))
20:26 < Sparks> :)
20:26 < rudi> :D
20:26 < jjmcd> Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them
20:26 < jjmcd> I think we have some really good plans tho
20:26 < jjmcd> but we need to share them more widely before implementing
20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh fedora/sankarshan] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:27 < jjmcd> Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs
20:27 < jjmcd> eof
20:27 < Sparks> URQs?
20:27 < jjmcd> User Requirements
20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh fedora/sankarshan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:27 < Sparks> Ahh
20:27 < jjmcd> <---- requirements geek
20:27 < Sparks> I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations...
20:28 < Sparks> by different users.  One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while...
20:28 < jjmcd> Yes.  I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit
20:28 < Sparks> the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info.
20:28 < jjmcd> but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone
20:28 < jjmcd> Yes
20:28 < jjmcd> ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that
20:29 < Sparks> I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more.
20:29 < jjmcd> as in the example I pointed to somewhere
20:30 < jjmcd> wait
20:30 < jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs
20:30 < jjmcd> Did everyone get a look at that?
20:30 < jjmcd> highlight a few biggies and list all the rest
20:31 < Sparks> I didn't... Have now
20:31 < jjmcd> reduces translation and increases the data
20:31 -!- joat [n=joat ip70-174-79-200 hr hr cox net] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:31 < Sparks> Good combinations
20:31 < jjmcd> THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there
20:32 < jjmcd> Needless to say, the table is produced by a script
20:32 < jjmcd> Well, program
20:33 < Sparks> Cool
20:33 -!- oget is now known as oget_zzz
20:34 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion?
20:34 < jjmcd> I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list
20:34  * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues
20:34 < Sparks> Excellent.
20:34 < Sparks> Okay.... moving on...
20:35 < Sparks> #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion.  <--quaid
20:35 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license 
          discussion.  <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:35 < Sparks> quaid: Do you have an update for us?
20:35 < quaid> ok
20:35 < quaid> I may cover what was said last week, but ...
20:35 < quaid> we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans.
20:36 < quaid> and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b?
20:36 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak nat/redhat-in/x-b83d32d96224e123] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:36 < quaid> yes, I do
20:36 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b
20:37 < Sparks> ?
20:37 < Sparks> When do you think we'll be able to change over?  ETA?
20:37 < quaid> well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :)
20:37 < quaid> no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow
20:37 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing
20:38 < quaid> so, really ... no change from last week afair :/
20:38 < Sparks> Okay...  At least we are up to date.
20:39 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else?
20:39 < Sparks> #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide]
20:39 < kgs> thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff
20:39 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared 
          open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:40 < Sparks> Okay...  I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda...
20:40 < Sparks> but I haven't really had time to look at it...
20:40 < Sparks> so I don't have anything to say about it, yet.
20:41 < Sparks> Would anyone like to say anything about it?
20:41 < zoglesby> ?
20:41 < Sparks> Go ahead Zach.
20:41 < zoglesby> I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time?
20:42 < Sparks> Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result.
20:42  * jjmcd had similar concerns
20:42 < Sparks> #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request.
20:43 < zoglesby> eof
20:44 < Sparks> Anyone else?
20:44 < jjmcd> I can see some benefit from shared development
20:44 < jjmcd> and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic
20:44 < jjmcd> eof
20:45 < Sparks> Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting...
20:45 < Sparks> I'll try to get more information for next week.
20:45 < Sparks> Anyone else?
20:45 < Sparks> #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq
20:45 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq (Meeting 
          topic: Docs Meeting)
20:46 < Sparks> Is ke4qqq here tonight?
20:46 < Sparks> I guess not.
20:46 < zoglesby> ?
20:47 < Sparks> So I think all the modules have been packaged, now.
20:47 < zoglesby> How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left?
20:47 < zoglesby> oh i can read!
20:47 -!- kgs [n=kgs c-69-254-162-212 hsd1 fl comcast net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"]
20:47 < Sparks> One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on.
20:48 < ianweller> there's no such thing as a "rejected" package
20:48 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left.  Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ.
20:48 < ianweller> just one that isn't approved yet
20:48 < ianweller> unless it's in ForbiddenItems
20:48  * ianweller heads back out
20:48 < Sparks> Yeah... what he said.
20:48 < zoglesby> what was the license?
20:48 < Sparks> CC-BY-SA 2.5
20:49 < Sparks> Which is not compatible with GPL
20:49 < zoglesby> did anyone contact the dev yet?
20:50 < Sparks> This project is being planned to be online within 60 days.  We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM.
20:50 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact.
20:51 < Sparks> Anyone have any other questions or comments?
20:51 < Sparks> #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes
20:51 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:51 < Sparks> Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while...
20:52 < Sparks> I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working
20:52 < Sparks> this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot
20:52 < Sparks> loose to do some of our work for us.
20:53 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments?
20:54 < Sparks> #topic Calendar
20:54 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:54 < Sparks> Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12.
20:55 < Sparks> I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution...
20:55 < Sparks> until we get our calendaring solution.
20:56 < Sparks> #link  http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics
20:56 < zoglesby> +1
20:56 < poelcat> easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with:
20:56 < poelcat> 1) name of task (using action words/verbs)
20:56 < poelcat> 2) start date
20:56 < poelcat> 3) how many days it takes
20:56 < poelcat> 4) dependency on other tasks
20:57 < Sparks> Cool!
20:57 < Sparks> anyone have any questions or comments?
20:57 < Sparks> Thanks poelcat 
20:57  * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart
20:57 < poelcat> will target fri or monday
20:58 < Sparks> poelcat: That will be great.  
20:58 < Sparks> #topic All other business
20:58 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
20:58 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour...  Does anyone have anything they want to talk about?
20:58 < radsy> !
20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Go ahead
20:59 < radsy> #link 
http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/#chap-Managing_Confined_Services-Squid_Caching_Proxy 
               is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look
20:59 < radsy> eof
20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Very cool.  Do you need any additional resources?
20:59 < radsy> no
20:59 -!- phunster [n=phunster pool-74-105-133-148 nwrknj fios verizon net] has quit ["What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all 
          about?"]
21:00 < Sparks> Okay, anyone else?
21:00 < perspectival> I think I'll take this time to speak up
21:00 < Sparks> perspectival: Go ahead
21:01 < perspectival> I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12
21:01 < perspectival> there is a new branch in svn
21:01 < perspectival> unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it
21:02 < quaid> howdy
21:02 < Sparks> perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide?
21:02 < perspectival> So Greetings!
21:02 < perspectival> the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide
21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: Excellent!  Do you need any resources?
21:03 < perspectival> I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind
21:03 < perspectival> still figuring out the way forward ;-)
21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: No problem!
21:03 < perspectival> I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though
21:03 < perspectival> am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc.
21:04 < perspectival> <eof for now>
21:04 -!- phunster [n=lanny pool-74-105-133-148 nwrknj fios verizon net] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:04 < Sparks> Okay.
21:04 < Sparks> Anyone else?
21:05 < Sparks> Okay, I'm calling it a night then...
21:05 < Sparks> 5
21:06 < Sparks> 4
21:06 < Sparks> 3
21:06 < Sparks> 2
21:06 < Sparks> 1
21:06 < Sparks> #endmeeting
21:06 < fedbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
21:06 < fedbot> Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.html
21:06 < fedbot> Log:     http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.log.html

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