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FDSCo Meeting 2009-04-30 IRC log



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[29 Apr 20:00]  +
[29 Apr 20:00] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic:
Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
[29 Apr 20:00]  +Roll Call!
[29 Apr 20:00]  +
[29 Apr 20:00] * Sparks is here
[29 Apr 20:00]  +
[29 Apr 20:00] * jjmcd est ici
[29 Apr 20:00]  -
[29 Apr 20:00] * rudi is here
[29 Apr 20:01]  +
[29 Apr 20:01] * Sparks waits a few more minutes before getting
everything kicked off
[29 Apr 20:02]  +
[29 Apr 20:02] * jjmcd sees ke4qqq, quaid, radsy but they must be sleeping
[29 Apr 20:02]  +
[29 Apr 20:02] * radsy is here
[29 Apr 20:04]  +Isn't ke4qqq first up?
[29 Apr 20:04]  +jjmcd: Yes
[29 Apr 20:04]  +fwiw i'm mostly in lurk mode, in the middle of a few things
[29 Apr 20:05]  +Well, while we wait...
[29 Apr 20:06]  +I sent out a couple of messages earlier today.  I'm
trying to organize the guides and such so if you are the lead of a
guide please take a look at those messages and help me out, please.
[29 Apr 20:07] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - Go over task table
[29 Apr 20:08]  +The task table is located under the meeting agenda.
[29 Apr 20:08]  +It needs to be updated.
[29 Apr 20:08]  +
[29 Apr 20:08] * ke4qqq is late sorry
[29 Apr 20:09]  +So please take a peek at it and see if you can either
1) update it or 2) join up to help it along.
[29 Apr 20:09]  +Sparks, since my F12 questions overlap the Publican
topic, I will make a page outlining the steps and decisions we need to
make (after pot is out of course)
[29 Apr 20:09]  +jjmcd: Cool
[29 Apr 20:09]  +And that's all I have to say about the task table this week.
[29 Apr 20:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - Shameless plug for SouthEast LinuxFest  +ke4qqq: Take it
away.
[29 Apr 20:10]  +so firest the southeast linuxfest is June 13
[29 Apr 20:10]  +s/firest/first/
[29 Apr 20:10]  +second - is there any interest in having a Docs FAD
on the 12th or 14th?
[29 Apr 20:11]  +I wouldn't mind that
[29 Apr 20:11]  +I know a lot of the docs contributors are in the southeast
[29 Apr 20:11]  +stickster is already confirmed to be there.
[29 Apr 20:11]  +
[29 Apr 20:11] * jjmcd has to be here on the 13th
[29 Apr 20:11]  +So I'd like to propose that we spend some time
hacking on our infrastructure - perhaps getting some packagers minted
as well.
[29 Apr 20:12]  +ke4qqq: I'm PLANNING on being there...
[29 Apr 20:12]  +That would be a good move. we need packagers
[29 Apr 20:12]  +and I'd like a yes/no on the entire thing maybe
within a week or so.
[29 Apr 20:12]  +jjmcd: you could participate remotely
[29 Apr 20:12]  +ohhh yeah sparks is going to be there
[29 Apr 20:12]  +Prolly Friday.
[29 Apr 20:12]  +ke4qqq: Well... I stress the planning part...
[29 Apr 20:12]  +
[29 Apr 20:12] * ke4qqq concludes his shameless plug - I'll send an
email to the list.
[29 Apr 20:12]  ++1
[29 Apr 20:12]  +Boston remote didn't work so hot
[29 Apr 20:13]  +jjmcd: Yeah, but that was yankee land... we're down south.
[29 Apr 20:13]  +Coulda done better on cw
[29 Apr 20:13]  +Boston is a lot busier too
[29 Apr 20:13]  +as well as the phones worked
[29 Apr 20:13]  +yeah, the confusion was a lot of it
[29 Apr 20:15]  +yep
[29 Apr 20:15]  +ke4qqq: Anything else?
[29 Apr 20:15]  +nothing on this subject
[29 Apr 20:15]  +Okay...
[29 Apr 20:16] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - Review
[http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html
schedule]
[29 Apr 20:16]  +I am here  sorry for being late
[29 Apr 20:16]  +Looks like a few things happened here recently.
[29 Apr 20:17]  +Well, 34  in progress, 36 is Friday's task
[29 Apr 20:17]  +jjmcd: You going to be able to build the RN RPM by Friday week?
[29 Apr 20:18]  +I see no reason why not
[29 Apr 20:18]  +We have work today and tomorrow
[29 Apr 20:18]  +then we wait a while for the translators
[29 Apr 20:18]  +Cool.  I see that the translations are going well.
[29 Apr 20:18]  +then we repeat last weeks steps
[29 Apr 20:18]  +Would be good tho if I had a shadow
[29 Apr 20:19]  +Right now I think I'm the only one who knows what is
actually going on there
[29 Apr 20:19]  +jjmcd: Pick your victim
[29 Apr 20:20]  +Dunno, Zach, how busy are you next week aroung task 37 time
[29 Apr 20:20]  +ohhh bad, gotta be friday
[29 Apr 20:20]  +I'm in Lansing Saturday, Alma Sunday
[29 Apr 20:21]  +zoglesby, are you busy Friday?
[29 Apr 20:21]  +no
[29 Apr 20:21]  +would you like to learn how f-r-n.rpm goes together?
[29 Apr 20:21]  +sure
[29 Apr 20:21]  +good deal, lets do that then
[29 Apr 20:22]  +that's Friday the 8th
[29 Apr 20:22]  +ok, let me know what time is good for you
[29 Apr 20:22]  +K, I'm an early riser so prolly noon-ish your time,
maybe a little earlier
[29 Apr 20:23]  +thats great about when I get up
[29 Apr 20:23]  +;-))
[29 Apr 20:23]  +(I am on nights now)
[29 Apr 20:25]  +
[29 Apr 20:25] * quaid arrives tardy
[29 Apr 20:25]  +So are all the guide pots done?
[29 Apr 20:26]  +?
[29 Apr 20:26]  +task 32
[29 Apr 20:26]  +IG pot is done
[29 Apr 20:26]  +SG pot is done
[29 Apr 20:27]  +believe UG pot is done
[29 Apr 20:27]  +cool
[29 Apr 20:27]  +obviously the RN pot is done
[29 Apr 20:27]  +what others are out there?
[29 Apr 20:27]  -UG pot is done
[29 Apr 20:27]  +SELinux
[29 Apr 20:27]  +I gather that "0 day" means final RN tweaks en-US
only until docs.fp.org updated in June?
[29 Apr 20:28]  +I guess
[29 Apr 20:28]  -IG pot still reflects a draft version (Task 24), with
a couple of small changes still to go for PR (will be done in the next
couple of hours...)
[29 Apr 20:29]  +rudi: I have a conflict on the guide table for the
UG...  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
[29 Apr 20:29]  +Is the UG completely in XML now?
[29 Apr 20:29]  +the selinux confined services guide won't be ready
for a while still, and it looks like it's about to have another
section added, so...
[29 Apr 20:30]  -Sparks: UG completely in XML and building fine
[29 Apr 20:30]  +rudi: Okay.
[29 Apr 20:30]  +radsy: Understood.  Anything I can help with?
[29 Apr 20:31]  +should be fine, Sparks - it's taking shape, just
doubtful for f11
[29 Apr 20:31]  +Sparks: rudi is a machine and moved UG to XML in what
seemed like a week.
[29 Apr 20:31]  +radsy: Okay.  Is it going to be release specific or
more like the SG?
[29 Apr 20:31]  +radsy: chance it could branch off minus the confined
services content and be something available??
[29 Apr 20:31]  +good but not yet perfect?
[29 Apr 20:32] *** You connected
[29 Apr 20:32]  +not release specific
[29 Apr 20:32]  +radsy: Okay.  Whenever it's done let's get it up on docs.fp.o.
[29 Apr 20:32]  +ke4qqq, the selinux user guide already exists, this
is more aimed at a smaller audience
[29 Apr 20:33]  +radsy: Hmmm....  So there are two "SELinux" guides?
[29 Apr 20:33]  +radsy: the last selinux UG I saw was for around fc5 -
have I missed an intervening one?
[29 Apr 20:34]  +http://docs.fedoraproject.org/selinux-user-guide/ for
f10, mdious wrote it
[29 Apr 20:34]  +wow - how did I miss that.
[29 Apr 20:34]  +yep Sparks,
http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/
is what I'm working on
[29 Apr 20:34] * stickster here late too as promised
[29 Apr 20:34]  +radsy: Okay, the one mdious was working on is the one
I knew about.
[29 Apr 20:35]  +radsy: is that one translated and ready to go or???
[29 Apr 20:35]  +not sure what the story is with the user-guide, i
haven't touched it since mdious left
[29 Apr 20:36]  +radsy: is it in fedorahosted?
[29 Apr 20:36]  +still working on the confined-services guide
[29 Apr 20:36]  +https://fedorahosted.org/managing-confined-services/
[29 Apr 20:36]  +Okay.
[29 Apr 20:37]  +Anything else for the schedule?
[29 Apr 20:37]  +?
[29 Apr 20:37]  +well i've dragged this off-topic
[29 Apr 20:37]  +radsy: Not really.
[29 Apr 20:37]  +Any other questions about the release schedule?
[29 Apr 20:37]  +have we unknowingly dropped the SELinux guide?
[29 Apr 20:38]  +and if we have, what are we doing now? does ECS have
an internal owner for the document or do we need to assume that
ownership or??
[29 Apr 20:38]  +ke4qqq: Well... mdious didn't give me much view of the project
[29 Apr 20:38]  +ke4qqq: We need to figure out where the source is and
see where the document is.
[29 Apr 20:39]  +it's on fedorahosted
[29 Apr 20:39]  +https://fedorahosted.org/selinuxguide
[29 Apr 20:39]  +okay
[29 Apr 20:39]  +and shows commits as recently as feb
[29 Apr 20:40]  +Let's look at that after the meeting and see what we can do.
[29 Apr 20:40]  +k
[29 Apr 20:40]  +Anything else?
[29 Apr 20:40] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - Status on Release Notes  +jjmcd: Where are you?
[29 Apr 20:41]  +Obviously, RN's went into 11Pr.
[29 Apr 20:41]  +Went through mails, about to add those to wiki, then
scrape wiki for xml changes
[29 Apr 20:41]  +then build the pot for Fri
[29 Apr 20:41]  +Not a lot of changes so I don't anticipate much prob
[29 Apr 20:42]  +Trying to get philip_ equipped to help as a way to
break into the process
[29 Apr 20:42]  +Cool
[29 Apr 20:42]  +laubersm also indicated she might help some but I
don't think we have that much to do
[29 Apr 20:43]  +Okay...  anything else?
[29 Apr 20:43]  +i don't understand RN or 11Pr or why 'scrape wiki'
[29 Apr 20:43]  +RN = release notes, 11Pr -= Fedora 11 release notes
[29 Apr 20:43]  +aaaah
[29 Apr 20:43]  +11pr = fedora 11 preview
[29 Apr 20:43]  +philip_: you will get the hang of it after a while
[29 Apr 20:44]  +just went out this week with  99% of release notes there
[29 Apr 20:44]  Did announcements go out to developers and greater
community to tell them about wiki freezing?
[29 Apr 20:44]  +Does anyone know why yelp seems so much faster on F11
[29 Apr 20:44]  It's just mo' betta
[29 Apr 20:44]  +stickster: I don't know
[29 Apr 20:44]  +jjmcd: because it goes up to 11
[29 Apr 20:45]  +which is one more than 10
[29 Apr 20:45]  +:)
[29 Apr 20:45]  +It's faster on a VM on 11 than native on 10
[29 Apr 20:45]  Sparks: It would be a good idea to make a note that
someone needs to be responsible for those reminders.
[29 Apr 20:45]  +stickster: yes
[29 Apr 20:45]  +we seem to be really lacking the reminder department overall
[29 Apr 20:45]  +very little wiki activity lately to freeze
[29 Apr 20:46]  +more concerned about L10n
[29 Apr 20:46]  jjmcd: That could be due to the lack of reminders...
[29 Apr 20:46]  +good point
[29 Apr 20:46]  +zoglesby: Yes...  I take responsibility for that as
I've been lacking here lately.
[29 Apr 20:46]  How much time is left before freezing the wiki and port to XML?
[29 Apr 20:46]  +XML port has to happen tomorrow
[29 Apr 20:47]  Sparks: OK, let's stand back for a second.
[29 Apr 20:47]  Oops, not just Sparks, sorry
[29 Apr 20:47]  We know that's not enough time to give people a
heads-up about freezes.
[29 Apr 20:47]  Yet it's about what we did before the freeze for Preview, right?
[29 Apr 20:47]  So let's figure out what would help us *not* do that
in the future.
[29 Apr 20:48]  +a calendar
[29 Apr 20:48]  +with email reminders
[29 Apr 20:48]  Is someone reading the release schedule tasks?
[29 Apr 20:48]  +Well, more than that
[29 Apr 20:48]  the ones that Poelstra creates, I mean
[29 Apr 20:48]  +yes - they are our calendar effectively
[29 Apr 20:48]  +One of us needs reminders on our calendar to post
warning about events on poelstra's calendar
[29 Apr 20:49]  jjmcd: You're about 80% of the way there
[29 Apr 20:49]  + and we really need to prolly add freeze
notifications to poelstras schedule
[29 Apr 20:49]  What we really need is to have this *task* captured in
that schedule
[29 Apr 20:49]  ke4qqq: DISCO!
[29 Apr 20:49]  +good point
[29 Apr 20:49]  +jjmcd: Google calendar?
[29 Apr 20:49]  +Sparks: we can't use Google Calendar
[29 Apr 20:49]  +I have a NASA calendar marked up on my wall
[29 Apr 20:49]  +ke4qqq: no?
[29 Apr 20:50]  So, I would humbly submit to you that the docs lead
should get with poelcat and figure out how to add these
public-notification tasks to that schedule
[29 Apr 20:50]  +Sparks: we only use F/LOSS to create Fedora
[29 Apr 20:50]  +ke4qqq: So is jjmcd 's NASA calendar open?
[29 Apr 20:50]  +it's not software
[29 Apr 20:50]  +lol
[29 Apr 20:50]  +ke4qqq: It's a process
[29 Apr 20:50]  +And it doesn't have the notifications on it
[29 Apr 20:50]  +Ahhhh, *BUT*
[29 Apr 20:50]  +Sparks: it's just caused flames before - just trying
to warn you - though I use Google Calendar personally
[29 Apr 20:51]  +We don't have a solution in place that helps us with this.
[29 Apr 20:51]  +We need to get the appropriate events onto the
appropriate person's PDA
[29 Apr 20:51]  +what is this calendar for and what does it need to do?
[29 Apr 20:51]  +ke4qqq: This isn't to put the word out to the
masses... it is being used to help organize already open data.
[29 Apr 20:51]  Sparks: Waiting for the solution is not as big a
problem as making sure the right tasks are on the schedule to begin
with. Let's solve first things, first.
[29 Apr 20:51]  +who wants a piece of me? ;-)
[29 Apr 20:51]  +I will take up the reminders
[29 Apr 20:51]  +I just need to figure out who and when
[29 Apr 20:51]  +speak of the devil
[29 Apr 20:51]  haha
[29 Apr 20:51]  +the who is worse than the when
[29 Apr 20:51]  poelcat: We were just discussing that there are tasks
missing on the Docs schedule -- not that they were omitted by anyone,
they've just not been captured correctly to start with
[29 Apr 20:52]  poelcat: in particular, a task to notify the community
about wiki freezes well in advance
[29 Apr 20:52]  or I should say, a task per freeze
[29 Apr 20:53]  +where is this calendar?
[29 Apr 20:53]  +send me email with: 1) name of task (should contain
verbs); 2) how many days it takes (or not); 3) what it depends on or
when it should start
[29 Apr 20:53]  +philip_, poelstra.fedorapeople.org
[29 Apr 20:53]  +i'll add it to the source file and then it will
magically be reported
[29 Apr 20:54]
+http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html
[29 Apr 20:54]  +
[29 Apr 20:54] * jjmcd has it up an a different screen so couldn't cut and paste
[29 Apr 20:55]  +Should someone (possibly docs) be responsible for
warning of all freezes?  This isn't unique to Docs
[29 Apr 20:56]  jjmcd: It's usually easier for each team to report
freezes since changes happen sometimes on a per-team basis, and
coordination would be tough
[29 Apr 20:56]  But...
[29 Apr 20:56]  There's no doubt that Zikula will help with this --
aiui there's a pretty rad calendar module
[29 Apr 20:56]  +stickster: I thought we weren't going to use the
calendar in Zikula
[29 Apr 20:56]  +every other group 'warns' re freezes
[29 Apr 20:56]  +sometimes with not much notice
[29 Apr 20:57]  Sparks: OK, s/Zikula/$FEDORA_WIDE_CALENDAR/
[29 Apr 20:57]  +Isn't there also a shared evolution calendar or some such.
[29 Apr 20:57]  +Sparks: there is a group in infra evaluating
calendars right now
[29 Apr 20:57]  +Oh, cool
[29 Apr 20:57]  doesn't matter what the implementation, as long as
it's being done openly somewhere
[29 Apr 20:57]  ke4qqq: Thank you sir!  (what he said.)
[29 Apr 20:57]  +exactly
[29 Apr 20:57]  +and if infra is working on it thats one less task for us
[29 Apr 20:57]  +very true
[29 Apr 20:58]  +Do we know what the status is on that?
[29 Apr 20:58]  +They have narrowed it down significantly
[29 Apr 20:59]  +Do you know if they have looked at Zikula?
[29 Apr 20:59]  Sparks: An email to the appropriate list would be a
good way to poke people
[29 Apr 20:59]  +dropping stuff that won't work or is Java etc.
[29 Apr 20:59]  +they did
[29 Apr 20:59]  IRC doesn't get seen by anyone not online.
[29 Apr 21:00]  I was under the impression that Zikula was a
possibility, but I don't know that anyone has said, " will be the
calendar, and it will be set up by ."
[29 Apr 21:00]  +no one has narrowed it down that far
[29 Apr 21:00]  Anyway, I think we're spending a lot of Docs time on
calendars instead of docs at this point.
[29 Apr 21:01]  +Well...  the calendar will be a docs tool.
[29 Apr 21:01]  Before we got on this topic, jjmcd was talking about
release notes status
[29 Apr 21:01]  +how about for now we say personal calendars along
with whats avaliable will be used and its on us to remeber to do this
[29 Apr 21:02]  +
[29 Apr 21:02] * Sparks should have put the freezes on his calendar a while back
[29 Apr 21:02]  +
[29 Apr 21:02] * jjmcd had then on his calendar, but has been in his
own little hidey-hole
[29 Apr 21:03]  Right zoglesby, people are welcome to use their own
tools personally, and for anything team-related we should use the
available Fedora capabilities
[29 Apr 21:03]  +jjmcd: Anything else on the RN?
[29 Apr 21:03]  +I think that's about it, other than the F12 topoc
[29 Apr 21:04]  +jjmcd: Wanna talk about that now?
[29 Apr 21:04]  +May as well
[29 Apr 21:04] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - Docs_decisions_for_F12
[29 Apr 21:04]  +During F11, a number of questions came up
[29 Apr 21:04]  +mostly aroung publican
[29 Apr 21:04]  +We made some short term decisions to push through the F11 notes
[29 Apr 21:05]  +but between now and F12, we ought to consider the right answers
[29 Apr 21:05]  +I've listed some of them at Docs_decisions_for_F12
[29 Apr 21:05]  +Over the next few weeks I'd like to see us talk about them
[29 Apr 21:06]  +are we moving everything to publican?
[29 Apr 21:06]  +FOr F11 we used Publican for the release notes
proper, but hammered it into looking the same as F10
[29 Apr 21:06]  +So homework for next week's meeting is to review the
page and come back with input or questions.
[29 Apr 21:06]  +ANd bleed on the page
[29 Apr 21:06]  +maybe add more
[29 Apr 21:07]  +zoglesby, that is one of the questions
[29 Apr 21:07]  +
[29 Apr 21:07] * zoglesby needs to read that page...
[29 Apr 21:09]  +Not sure we need to say much more right now
[29 Apr 21:09]  +Okay...
[29 Apr 21:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes
[29 Apr 21:10]  +Just wanted to touch on this real quick.
[29 Apr 21:10]  +I worked on the Docs Project page earlier today.
[29 Apr 21:11]  +I tried to clean up the language and will continue to
work on it this week to try to simplify what we are trying to say.
[29 Apr 21:12]  +There is still some work to do.
[29 Apr 21:12]  +Any questions or comments?
[29 Apr 21:12]  +Due to the hour...
[29 Apr 21:12] --- Sparks (n=sparks fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs
Project - All other business
[29 Apr 21:12]  +Anyone have anything else?
[29 Apr 21:13]  +i have a few things but they can probably be
discussed in the main channel
[29 Apr 21:13]  +you guys going to be around for a bit?
[29 Apr 21:13]  +radsy: I will be
[29 Apr 21:13]  +wanted to clear up this selinux thing
[29 Apr 21:14]  +Anything else?
[29 Apr 21:14]  +i'm good
[29 Apr 21:15]  +5
[29 Apr 21:15]  +4
[29 Apr 21:15]  +3
[29 Apr 21:15]  +2
[29 Apr 21:15]  +1
[29 Apr 21:15]  +Thanks everyone for coming!
[29 Apr 21:15]  +

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