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Re: lwn article on the death of Fedora Legacy

On Friday 20 October 2006 14:40, Eric Rostetter wrote:
> If we had a way to know what work needed to be done, it might be easier
> for people like me to help.  Long ago I suggested that there be a mailing
> list for entries in bugzilla, and while it was received well by many on
> this list, it was rejected by you.  If I got an e-mail saying we need
> to test package X, and I decided I could test package X, I would do it.
> But I don't have the time to go crawling through bugzilla looking to
> see what needs to be tested, and I've not seen a mailing to this list
> lately with a list of things that needed testing.  In other words, I
> personally respond better to a "push" to me of what is needed than
> having to expend effort to "pull" what is needed from various sources.

And for a while Pekka was posting a list of all the work needed items.  Was 
that not usable?  I don't remember the discussion of a mailing list for bugs, 
there is a 'bugs fedoralegacy org' email alias, if you want on that, by all 
means I'll add you.  I do know that I don't want bug discussion to happen on 
a list and out of the bug.

> >> Secondly, I've offered to help many times with other infrastructure
> >> issues, and been turned down over and over.
> >
> > Where?  When?  You refused to use IRC, you've refused to even try to get
> > a wiki account.
> Yes, I basically refuse to use IRC.  If that means I can't help with FL,
> then so be it.  That's your problem.
> My requests to help go back to the beginning, like setting up CVS for the
> web site, a web-interface to the CVS, a mailing list for the CVS, etc.
> You refused all that help, saying you already planned to do that kind of
> stuff and would do it yourself, etc.  You did setup the CVS, but none of
> the rest. 

Yep, I suck again.  There was CVS, but I had always wanted to use Red Hat 
resources for things like source control.  Now we have it, WITH webcvs I do 
believe (although I still hate CVS (: )  As for adding the web to the new CVS 
infrastructure, I haven't thought much about it.  When this was happening, I 
had thought you had left the project, so it wasn't much of a thought process.

> I've never managed to get access to change bugzilla entry 
> white boards, etc. though I've asked about it, etc.

I don't recall you asking.  I could easily get you added to a bugzilla group, 
but the best way is to go through the Extras contributor process (yes it 
sucks that it isn't a "Fedora" contributors process yet, but that process has 
to be created, wanna help?)

> As for a wiki access, I _did_ get it.  But, I'm really never been sure
> how you plan to split the web site and wiki, if at all, and what you want
> done, and personally I _hate_ the idea of putting everything in the wiki.
> I specifically hate putting the advisories in the wiki, but you say you
> want to.  Well, so be it, but I've not seen any work done to do it, and
> I've not been asked to help in doing so.

Advisories do not belong in wiki, you're correct.  They belong in email, and 
maybe echo'd to a website if there is automated things to make that happen.  
We don't have it for Core, we don't _need_ it for Legacy yet.  One should 
come from the other.  As for wiki content: 

I would like EVERYTHING except advisories (see above) and the GPG keys.  David 
Eisenstein has done a lot of work of porting some content over, I'm sure he'd 
like a hand with that.  I like the wiki as it is a LOT lower overhead to 
contribute content, make updates as things change, refine processes, 
interlink with other Fedora documentation such as how to use the CVS system, 
how to get an account, how to use the build system, etc...

> >> I'll document that..."  And so on.  Eventually of course, my
> >> documentation is no longer good because it is a web page and now it
> >> should all be wiki, and I don't have access to the wiki.  By the time I
> >> finally get access to the wiki, I've lost interest.
> >
> > When did you try to get a wiki account?  We always welcome more  
> > documentation.
> I _did_ get access to the wiki (though I don't know if it still works or
> not). In fact I say that above where you quote me.
> >> Third, I had a big project that took about a year of my life, during
> >> which I could not spend a lot of time of FL work.  That is over now, and
> >> I could go back to working on FL again, but I really don't see where I'm
> >> needed now.
> >
> > I've outlined what help we need.
> No, you said we need lots of stuff.  I said, okay, I'm trying to do some
> of that stuff.  You said, no, we need this other stuff since the stuff
> I want to do can't be done until the other stuff is done...  Well, fine,
> if I have to do that other stuff I'm willing, if it is made easy for me
> to do.  Is anyone willing to make it easier for me to do?
> > Again, I don't know, you'd have to ask Luke and / or the Infrastructure
> > team.
> I'll reread the thread, and _if_ I understand what is desired, I'll
> approach them about it.  If not, then I'll _try_ to get someone here to
> explain to me what it is I'm supposed to ask them.


Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora

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