F7 nvidia-96xx driver problem

[Lonni J Friedman]

On 7/24/07, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko at greshko.com> wrote:
> Frank Cox wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:15:52 +0800
> > Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko at greshko.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not trivializing your experiences, just saying that not all people share
> >> your experiences and it may be best to note that in your replies.
> >
> > I can't disagree with your statement here, but that's really not the point that
> > Mr. Friedman has been incorrectly asserting.
>
> All I can say is that I do not recall any instance of someone posting
> problems here on the Fedora list with the open "nv" driver any anyone
> jumping in with a fix.  I could be wrong since I generally don't pay
> attention to each and every post...especially those using drivers that I'm
> not using.  If you know of such an instance, it would be nice to see it.

Which is the point that I made the last time this came up a few weeks
ago.  OSS doesn't mean that the support is any better than closed
support.  The two gentlemen who seem to be the most vocally against
'binary blob drivers' have no record that I can find in this list's
archives of ever providing anyone with actual fixes for drivers.  Nor
do I see any other actual patterns of some massive influx of OSS
driver support on this list (or any other, for that matter).  Claiming
that "the community" can help is little more than talk, as I've rarely
seen any evidence that more than a very small number of people are
able to actually fix bugs in any one driver anywhere.

>
> > To address your reply, however, I believe that I have stated here before that I
> > currently use and recommend Intel graphic chipsets entirely due to the
> > open-source nature of their drivers.  I have had a substantial influence on
> > what gets sold in my neighbourhood for use with Linux (i.e. people who know me
> > as the "computer guy" and come and ask questions, plus the local computer
> > store whose owner is a friend of mine as well).
>
> Again, not to trivialize, but it isn't hard to be known as the "computer
> guy" in this day and age.  Even though my use of Win2K and Vista is what I
> consider to be limited I am known as the "computer guy" with folks around
> here and I end up fixing their issues.
>
> > My most recent experience:  One guy that I know has been hassling around with
> > his proprietary video card and Ubuntu for some months -- he mentioned to me
> > yesterday that he is considering the purchase of a new computer to get away
> > from video problems with what he has now.  "I wish I would have talked to you
> > before I bought that piece of junk," he said.
>
> And I am sure that the opposite has also been true for others.  Anecdotal
> stories don't do much for me.

Nor do they prove anything.  A non-trivial percentage of driver
problems are issues with the motherboard/BIOS, and not the driver.
But who cares about the facts as long as prejudices are pushed upon
others, right?

>
> > As you say, everyone's experience may be different.  But I like the path of
> > least resistance, in this case known as "just works".
>
> And in my case going with the nvidia drivers has been the path of least
> resistance and "just works".

Exactly.  I have little respect for those whose sole contribution to
these threads is to rush in and scream "no one can help you because
you're using a binary blob!!!!!!!111!".  Contrary to the claims of
some, you don't need to know anything about the internals of a driver
to do some basic debugging.  Mocking someone's problems is very
unlikely to convince that your position is superior.  Often, I'm left
to believe that those who have nothing to offer but OSS zealotry do so
simply because they're not capable of doing anything else.