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Marketing Meeting 2008-03-06 IRC Log



Mar 06 23:00:57 <gregdek>	OK, looks like we've got a few folks around.
 Shall we get started?
Mar 06 23:00:57 <quaid>	word
Mar 06 23:00:59 <stickster>	gregdek: fire away, yo
Mar 06 23:01:03 <tw2113>	yay @ IRC being a collaborative notepad :P
Mar 06 23:01:07 *	gregdek goes to the agenda.
Mar 06 23:01:17 <quaid>	<meeting>
Mar 06 23:01:21 <gregdek>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks
Mar 06 23:01:36 <gregdek>	Do we have Rahul?
Mar 06 23:01:46 <gregdek>	mether: You there?
Mar 06 23:01:52 *	quaid saw mether around recently
Mar 06 23:02:02 <mether>	gregdek: yeah
Mar 06 23:02:04 *	JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")
Mar 06 23:02:27 <gregdek>	1.1.1.2: Target audience.
Mar 06 23:02:45 <mether>	I wrote some things which might not make sense
Mar 06 23:02:45 *	JonRob (n=jon exhalls-5 ex ac uk) has joined #fedora-mktg
Mar 06 23:02:47 <gregdek>	Everyone take a look at what mether has.
Mar 06 23:02:58 <gregdek>	The Plan url:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan
Mar 06 23:03:10 <gregdek>	Take a look at section 1.1.1.2.  Any comments?
Mar 06 23:03:45 *	gregdek agrees generally.
Mar 06 23:03:54 <JonRob>	maybe it needs widening slightly?
Mar 06 23:04:05 <quaid>	missing "really cool sysadmins"
Mar 06 23:04:09 <JonRob>	seems to me like fedora's mission has widened a little
Mar 06 23:04:11 <tw2113>	i don't see my name :P
Mar 06 23:04:13 <JonRob>	beyond just the distribution
Mar 06 23:04:14 <tw2113>	kidding
Mar 06 23:04:26 <mether>	JonRob: feel free to expand it
Mar 06 23:04:37 <quaid>	how wide?
Mar 06 23:04:38 <mether>	what do you have in mind?
Mar 06 23:04:45 <JonRob>	well that's what i'm not sure about
Mar 06 23:04:48 <gregdek>	Heh.
Mar 06 23:05:04 <mether>	target audience should be specific and we
shouldn't try to fit everything in IMO
Mar 06 23:05:13 <JonRob>	but fedora as a community certainly appeals
to people such as Creative Commons, and Fedora TV is an interesting
direction for us to head
Mar 06 23:05:14 <quaid>	how about sysadmins?
Mar 06 23:05:29 <JonRob>	is perhaps the point i'm getting at
Mar 06 23:05:43 <quaid>	Free and open source software developers =>
Free and open source software and content developers
Mar 06 23:05:49 <gregdek>	So why is this interesting to Creative
Commons?  Because they are interested in a derivative distribution,
right?
Mar 06 23:05:51 <tw2113>	i kind of think of fedora as a distro for the
people who want to start controlling their computer, instead of the
computer controlling them
Mar 06 23:06:06 <mether>	quaid: i think that covers it right
Mar 06 23:06:07 <jmbuser>	quaid: +1
Mar 06 23:06:09 <quaid>	just chuck "open content" in there, that's legit;
Mar 06 23:06:18 <JonRob>	quaid: +1 works for me
Mar 06 23:06:36 <mether>	why sys admins?
Mar 06 23:06:37 <gregdek>	Hm.
Mar 06 23:06:43 <quaid>	Free and open source enthusiasts => Free and
open source enthusiasts and systems maintainers?
Mar 06 23:06:47 <quaid>	um, why?
Mar 06 23:06:54 <gregdek>	The broader the audience = the wider a net
we must cast = the more work we all need to do.
Mar 06 23:06:55 <mether>	whats unique about Fedora for them?
Mar 06 23:07:06 <quaid>	because it's a rock solid system for server
deployments, people use it for that all over the place, and it's a
natural step to RHEL sysadmin
Mar 06 23:07:18 <quaid>	mether: it's the upstream to RHEL :)
Mar 06 23:07:24 *	gregdek thinks that's covered by "open source enthusiasts".
Mar 06 23:07:24 <quaid>	that's what is unique
Mar 06 23:07:35 <JonRob>	gregdek: i guess that's part of the trouble
with spins that they can widen our audience continually, especially
with the art spin etc
Mar 06 23:07:36 <mether>	wouldnt a rock solid server deployment have a
longer lifecycle?
Mar 06 23:07:39 <gregdek>	Remember: the reason for coming up with a
target audience is to better target the messaging.
Mar 06 23:07:56 <quaid>	mether: meh, splitting hairs
Mar 06 23:08:06 <jmbuser>	how about cutting-edge technologists like NASA?
Mar 06 23:08:14 <mether>	i am not sure. i think server = longer life
cycle for many people
Mar 06 23:08:18 <gregdek>	For every entry in the "audience" category,
we need to reconcile our plans to include that entry.
Mar 06 23:08:40 <quaid>	s/enthusiasts/enthusiasts such as systems
maintainers and leading edge technologists/?
Mar 06 23:08:44 <tw2113>	i think the server aspect depends on how
heavily it'd get used and where
Mar 06 23:08:50 <mether>	quaid: that would work
Mar 06 23:08:53 <iWolf>	Well, I'm a sysadmin and run Fedora on my
desktops/laptop as a way to see what's coming down the pike for my
servers.
Mar 06 23:08:58 <stickster>	Secondary target, would it make sense to
have "third-party developers" as they relate to the ISVs? Or is that
an unnecessary artificial construct?
Mar 06 23:09:02 <tw2113>	like if i wanted to set up my own little
in-house server for personal use, i wouldn't hesitate using fedora
Mar 06 23:09:12 <quaid>	stickster: isn't that covered in the second bullet
Mar 06 23:09:13 <stickster>	s/ISVs/IHVs and ISVs/
Mar 06 23:09:26 <tw2113>	but if i wanted a dedicated server for a lot
of people to use at once, i would probably aim for more long-term
support
Mar 06 23:09:26 <mether>	stickster:  the advantage of Fedora is that
you dont have to be a third party
Mar 06 23:09:45 <mether>	the wiki is too slow for me. anyone else,
feel free to edit if they can
Mar 06 23:09:58 *	quaid edits
Mar 06 23:10:05 <stickster>	quaid++
Mar 06 23:10:11 <gregdek>	It may be that we need to focus more
narrowly in "primary audience" and allow more latitude in "secondary
audience".
Mar 06 23:10:24 <gregdek>	As in, "primary audience" are folks that we
must have *awesome* messaging for.
Mar 06 23:10:24 <JonRob>	gregdek: that sounds like the right approach to me
Mar 06 23:10:28 <stickster>	I'll buy that for $1.
Mar 06 23:10:38 <JonRob>	i think that's stated more or less too in the
overviews and around and about
Mar 06 23:10:51 <mether>	if you have to say only one thing about the
target audience for Fedora, what would that be?
Mar 06 23:10:54 <quaid>	+1 to narrow primary, allow room in secondary
Mar 06 23:11:07 <gregdek>	And for me, our *primary* target is free and
open source software developers.
Mar 06 23:11:15 <gregdek>	Who else is clearly *primary*?
Mar 06 23:11:25 <quaid>	+1
Mar 06 23:11:31 <quaid>	enthusiasts?
Mar 06 23:11:33 <gregdek>	Yeah.
Mar 06 23:11:42 <jmbuser>	+1
Mar 06 23:11:44 <stickster>	I'm a little sad that we can't say we're
for desktop users who aren't concerned with the MP3/DVD case.
Mar 06 23:11:48 *	quaid has an edit window, watch out!
Mar 06 23:11:54 <gregdek>	Specifically because I think enthusiasts --
and I mean true enthusiasts -- are where the developers come from.
Mar 06 23:12:10 <gregdek>	stickster: I think that's the definition of
an "enthusiast."  :)
Mar 06 23:12:16 <mether>	stickster: in reality, that probably is not
our primary target
Mar 06 23:12:36 <stickster>	gregdek: Sure, if you want to be logical.
Mar 06 23:12:47 <mether>	stickster: it is exactly the reason why I put
desktop users as a secondary target btw. We dont support proprietary
stuff
Mar 06 23:12:49 <gregdek>	I think every other case we listed is a
great secondary target, and we could even add more.
Mar 06 23:13:24 <JonRob>	i don't think we should leave it solely at
developers as primary audience
Mar 06 23:13:27 <quaid>	do we want to move any down from the primary
list to secondary?
Mar 06 23:13:44 <quaid>	right now I have it as is, with the additional
language; nothing removed
Mar 06 23:13:57 <iWolf>	JonRob: I agree.
Mar 06 23:13:58 <gregdek>	I like developers and enthusiasts as primary.
Mar 06 23:14:05 <JonRob>	gregdek: +1
Mar 06 23:14:07 <stickster>	+1
Mar 06 23:14:14 <JonRob>	or perhaps "freedom lovers" :p
Mar 06 23:14:17 <iWolf>	leave room for sysadmins, hopefully they fall
under enthusiasts.
Mar 06 23:14:31 <stickster>	I also like "derivative creators" in
primary, but in my mind that includes appliances.
Mar 06 23:14:39 <gregdek>	Hm.
Mar 06 23:14:55 <gregdek>	I could go either way on that.
Mar 06 23:15:01 <stickster>	We spend a lot of time making sure all our
build systems and other supporting structures are free just to make
sure someone can do that.
Mar 06 23:15:13 <gregdek>	It may be primary in terms of strategy, but
is it primary in terms of messaging?
Mar 06 23:15:37 <stickster>	I think so.  I *like* spending time in
interviews pointing out that everything we build and do is free.
Mar 06 23:15:41 <quaid>	should we specify
Mar 06 23:15:45 <quaid>	under secondary
Mar 06 23:15:49 <JonRob>	gregdek: it must be, surely?! otherwise why
bother spending time on something no body is going to hear about?
Mar 06 23:15:54 <quaid>	that these are not the targets of messaging?
Mar 06 23:15:56 <gregdek>	A fair point.
Mar 06 23:16:13 <quaid>	-1 to my idea, fwiw
Mar 06 23:16:19 <gregdek>	Heh.  :)
Mar 06 23:16:51 <gregdek>	OK, so I'll buy "derivative creators" as a
primary -- but that's not as... I dunno.  Smooth, I want to say.
Mar 06 23:16:55 <stickster>	Right.
Mar 06 23:17:07 <gregdek>	Unless you're already firmly in our world,
it probably isn't clear.
Mar 06 23:17:07 <stickster>	A better way to say it is needed...
Mar 06 23:17:09 <quaid>	"Fedora feeders"?
Mar 06 23:17:15 <stickster>	-1 jargon :-D
Mar 06 23:17:20 <gregdek>	Forkers.
Mar 06 23:17:26 <stickster>	:-D
Mar 06 23:17:28 <gregdek>	All those fooking forkers.  :)
Mar 06 23:17:29 <quaid>	Motherforkers?
Mar 06 23:17:51 <gregdek>	Hrm.
Mar 06 23:18:02 <tw2113>	what the fork
Mar 06 23:18:07 <gregdek>	I would say "leave it for now," but I'm
concerned if we do, we'll never revisit it, heh.
Mar 06 23:18:08 <stickster>	How to say... "People who want to copy our
awesome model."
Mar 06 23:18:11 <quaid>	well, those guys, whatever we call them, we
agree they are #1
Mar 06 23:18:11 <jmbuser>	Mixers and mashers
Mar 06 23:18:18 <JonRob>	"spiners"
Mar 06 23:18:20 <stickster>	jmbuser: aha!
Mar 06 23:18:23 <stickster>	FOSS remixers
Mar 06 23:18:30 <gregdek>	FOSS remixers.
Mar 06 23:18:33 <gregdek>	I like that.
Mar 06 23:18:33 <stickster>	*jinx
Mar 06 23:18:35 <tw2113>	stickster, "excellent for imitation"
Mar 06 23:18:35 <jmbuser>	+1
Mar 06 23:18:36 <quaid>	sounding like a Dead show here with spinners,
mashers ...
Mar 06 23:18:50 <gregdek>	THE BROWN ACID IS BAD.
Mar 06 23:18:53 *	quaid fixes that one
Mar 06 23:19:04 <tw2113>	we're all golden gods?
Mar 06 23:19:09 <stickster>	This makes it easy -- "Free and open
source enthusiasts, developers, and remixers."
Mar 06 23:19:16 <gregdek>	Me likey Big Time.
Mar 06 23:19:17 <jmbuser>	+1
Mar 06 23:19:26 <iWolf>	and sysadmins.  :)
Mar 06 23:19:26 <gregdek>	1. Simplify.  2. Amplify.  :)
Mar 06 23:19:32 <stickster>	wakawakawakawaka*BEAT BEAT*
Mar 06 23:19:56 <gregdek>	OK, I think we've licked target audience.
Shall we move on?
Mar 06 23:20:00 <stickster>	+1
Mar 06 23:20:14 <gregdek>	1.1.2 -- Brand Positioning.  That's me!
Mar 06 23:20:21 <gregdek>	Take a look, and let's have comments.
Mar 06 23:20:39 <quaid>	hey that worked, just saved it with those
changes, pulling all the others under the one audience
Mar 06 23:20:40 <mether>	gregdek:
http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9813113-39.html
Mar 06 23:20:58 <mether>	gregdek: talks about a all purpose linux
foundation. sounds grander than derivative distributions?
Mar 06 23:21:02 *	quaid needs to pass the edit baton
Mar 06 23:21:12 <quaid>	have to leave in ~10 minutes
Mar 06 23:21:35 <gregdek>	Hm.
Mar 06 23:21:41 <gregdek>	Who wants the edit baton?
Mar 06 23:21:45 <gregdek>	mether: Maybe.
Mar 06 23:22:04 <stickster>	Yikes, the "foundation" terminology
overload is a little daunting.
Mar 06 23:22:04 <jmbuser>	gregdek: Pick me
Mar 06 23:22:13 <stickster>	jmbuser++
Mar 06 23:22:22 <gregdek>	jmbuser: A winner is you!
Mar 06 23:23:01 <stickster>	gregdek: I don't know if I can add to 1.1.2
Mar 06 23:23:07 <stickster>	It's so... beautiful...
Mar 06 23:23:13 <gregdek>	I'm perfect, as always!
Mar 06 23:23:16 <mether>	User Experience. Fedora offers a user
experience that is unsurpassed by
Mar 06 23:23:20 <gregdek>	Surely someone has something ribald to say.
Mar 06 23:23:21 <mether>	that sentence is incomplete
Mar 06 23:23:25 <stickster>	Except "cam" ==> "can" in point 3.
Mar 06 23:23:48 <quaid>	gregdek: when you've laid down for FLOSS for
so long, it just rolls of your tongue?
Mar 06 23:23:51 <gregdek>	See? mether's paying attention.  Stickster
is just grab-assing.
Mar 06 23:23:52 <stickster>	Sorry, I was only looking at the Points of
Difference section.
Mar 06 23:23:59 <stickster>	gregdek: Is it Friday already?
Mar 06 23:24:06 <mether>	Fedora is the responsible elder brother of
the free software world
Mar 06 23:24:10 <mether>	not sure that is a good analogy
Mar 06 23:24:18 <quaid>	s/brother/sibling/ ?
Mar 06 23:24:23 <tw2113>	tomorrow paul
Mar 06 23:24:25 <JonRob>	umm what about the friends bit: sounds a
little like we're exlcuding people who don't agree with us
Mar 06 23:24:30 <gregdek>	I'll leave it up for debate, but I like it lots.
Mar 06 23:24:41 <JonRob>	maybe we could emphasise convincing people a
little more :)
Mar 06 23:24:45 <mether>	Friends. We care about the people around us
who care about the things that we care about.
Mar 06 23:24:56 <quaid>	we care that they care enough to convince other people?
Mar 06 23:25:01 <mether>	I care about my friend even though he cares
about completely different things
Mar 06 23:25:06 *	jmbuser going into edit mode
Mar 06 23:25:14 <tw2113>	Fedora: we're not brown
Mar 06 23:25:19 <gregdek>	Then "friends" is the wrong word.
Mar 06 23:25:26 <JonRob>	tw2113: heh :)
Mar 06 23:25:31 <stickster>	"We care about the people around us, even
if they're not paying attention."
Mar 06 23:25:37 <stickster>	No, wait, that's wrong.
Mar 06 23:25:38 <JonRob>	stickster: +1
Mar 06 23:25:44 <JonRob>	no i think it's good
Mar 06 23:25:44 <gregdek>	My opinion: we care about the mission, and
we care *a lot* about supporting other people who also care about our
mission.
Mar 06 23:26:10 *	stickster will have to learn not to joke without signifying.
Mar 06 23:26:11 <gregdek>	Because to be honest, I don't care all that
much about the Windows user who doesn't give a toss about free
software.
Mar 06 23:26:28 <mether>	so lets say
Mar 06 23:26:29 <gregdek>	But I care *deeply* about the folks -- my
friends -- who sacrifice their time and energies to make free software
better.
Mar 06 23:26:30 <stickster>	Fedora -- the defensive driver of FOSS.
Mar 06 23:26:33 <JonRob>	gregdek: surely we need to let them
understand why we care though?
Mar 06 23:27:01 <JonRob>	or are we positioning ourselves more as a
solid foundation for those who actually want to take the fight
forwards?
Mar 06 23:27:12 <mether>	Foundation for freedom?
Mar 06 23:27:14 <gregdek>	JonRob: +1 to that last bit.
Mar 06 23:27:19 <gregdek>	Foundation For Freedom.
Mar 06 23:27:23 *	jmbuser did a save
Mar 06 23:27:24 <gregdek>	Yeah, we need another F.
Mar 06 23:27:26 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 06 23:27:31 <stickster>	I'm down with that.
Mar 06 23:27:36 <mether>	that could be a slogan. we need one
Mar 06 23:27:50 <iWolf>	we're still going to need to care about people
who don't understand.
Mar 06 23:27:59 <stickster>	"The Future, First" -- that's my slogan.
Mar 06 23:28:11 <iWolf>	people ask at the Fedora booth, why they
should are, or why what we do is good.
Mar 06 23:28:18 <iWolf>	s/are/care/
Mar 06 23:28:39 <stickster>	Back to these points -- "Friends: We care
about the people around us, especially those who are devoted to
freedom"
Mar 06 23:28:41 <mether>	Foundation For Software Freedom if you want
to be more specific
Mar 06 23:28:52 <gregdek>	Or Content Freedom.
Mar 06 23:29:03 <JonRob>	content freedom?
Mar 06 23:29:03 <mether>	right
Mar 06 23:29:07 <gregdek>	Hey, we're the FSF!
Mar 06 23:29:13 <JonRob>	yes, i feel we should push free culture as a
whole rather than just free software
Mar 06 23:29:14 *	stickster falls over..
Mar 06 23:29:17 <gregdek>	The Foundation for Software Freedom!
Mar 06 23:29:33 <JonRob>	gregdek: i think we should use it, just to
see the reactions!
Mar 06 23:29:34 <gregdek>	"Who's that over there?"  "He's the Free
Software Foundation."  "SPLITTER!"
Mar 06 23:29:40 <stickster>	:-D
Mar 06 23:29:48 *	gregdek giggles helplessly.
Mar 06 23:29:52 <jmbuser>	maybe "First" can be "Future"
Mar 06 23:29:58 <stickster>	gregdek: Chair, you lout! Chair!
Mar 06 23:30:13 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 06 23:30:15 <tw2113>	Foundation of Freedom Fighters For Your Future
Mar 06 23:30:19 <tw2113>	FFFFF
Mar 06 23:30:21 <gregdek>	All right.
Mar 06 23:30:30 <mether>	problem I see with future, first is that it
doesnt say anything about what we do
Mar 06 23:30:32 <gregdek>	Is the last edit saved yet?
Mar 06 23:30:36 <tw2113>	F5
Mar 06 23:30:42 <mether>	but IMO, we need a good slogan anyway
Mar 06 23:30:49 <jmbuser>	what exactly?
Mar 06 23:30:57 <tw2113>	I still like Infinity Freedom Voice
Mar 06 23:31:03 <gregdek>	Well, let's table the Slogan idea for right now.
Mar 06 23:31:09 <mether>	yeah
Mar 06 23:31:13 <mether>	lets discuss that later
Mar 06 23:31:14 <stickster>	+1
Mar 06 23:31:16 <gregdek>	Let's make sure that we've got the elements
of the Brand Essence correct.
Mar 06 23:31:18 <quaid>	"on list"
Mar 06 23:31:28 <stickster>	gregdek: And the Parity Points issue.
Mar 06 23:31:39 <gregdek>	"Freedom / Friends / Features / First".
Mar 06 23:31:44 <gregdek>	Is that sufficient or not?
Mar 06 23:31:55 <quaid>	sufficient++
Mar 06 23:32:00 <gregdek>	I really kind of like the idea of adding
Foundation, now that it's been mentioned.
Mar 06 23:32:09 <jmbuser>	+1
Mar 06 23:32:12 <stickster>	I like foundation here too.
Mar 06 23:32:12 <quaid>	F5 is much better than F4 anyway
Mar 06 23:32:19 <stickster>	More destructive.
Mar 06 23:32:22 <quaid>	(being, you know, not TM'd by Marvel)
Mar 06 23:32:23 <stickster>	Oh, wait.
Mar 06 23:32:25 <gregdek>	Especially now that we've noted that
remixers are a core target audience.
Mar 06 23:32:37 <jmbuser>	Framework instead of foundation?
Mar 06 23:32:46 <gregdek>	Hm.
Mar 06 23:32:51 <stickster>	jmbuser: Too jargon-y.
Mar 06 23:32:55 <gregdek>	Yeah.  That.
Mar 06 23:32:56 <mether>	i think we need to tune the definition of
whom we call friends.
Mar 06 23:32:58 <jmbuser>	:-(
Mar 06 23:32:59 <mether>	did we decide on that?
Mar 06 23:33:01 <mether>	also People interested in security
enhancements like SELinux. Either development or consumption
Mar 06 23:33:04 <mether>	is that a core audience?
Mar 06 23:33:14 <quaid>	I tucked it under enthusiasts
Mar 06 23:33:14 <gregdek>	Foundation = the very strong base.
Framework = tinkertoys.
Mar 06 23:33:14 <stickster>	No.
Mar 06 23:33:24 <mether>	Freedom. Fedora is completely committed to
the growth of free software in a way that no other operating system
cam match.
Mar 06 23:33:40 <gregdek>	Wait...
Mar 06 23:33:42 <mether>	should that be stated less in terms of competition?
Mar 06 23:33:48 <JonRob>	we better not forget that we're going to have
to explain these things to people
Mar 06 23:33:53 <stickster>	No, it's a point of difference
Mar 06 23:33:55 *	gregdek looks back at the "primary target" section.
Mar 06 23:34:06 <gregdek>	Didn't we agree to narrow it a lot more than that?
Mar 06 23:34:09 <JonRob>	why is fedora more capable of growing free software?
Mar 06 23:34:15 *	jmbuser adding Foundation?
Mar 06 23:34:29 <stickster>	mether: We should be talking in Points of
Difference about where Fedora stands out from other FOSS platforms.
Mar 06 23:34:29 <JonRob>	just as an eg
Mar 06 23:34:29 <JonRob>	not a quesion that needs answering now
Mar 06 23:34:29 <stickster>	gregdek: primary target == "FOSS
enthusiasts, developers, and remixers" I thought.
Mar 06 23:34:54 <stickster>	But that may be my ego speaking.
Mar 06 23:34:54 <gregdek>	stickster: I thought so too.
Mar 06 23:35:10 <JonRob>	jmbuser +1
Mar 06 23:35:10 <mether>	jmbuser: yeah
Mar 06 23:35:10 <gregdek>	jmbuser: can you re-edit the "target
audience primary market" thing, and also add Foundation?
Mar 06 23:35:25 *	jmbuser jumps into edit mode
Mar 06 23:35:54 <jmbuser>	...slowly
Mar 06 23:36:06 <stickster>	gregdek: I thought Foundation was to be
added to 1.1.2 under "Core Brand Essence"
Mar 06 23:36:08 <tw2113>	[14:35] <zodbot> Announcement from my owner
(mmcgrath): We've had a burp on one of our servers, some web services
(wiki) and koji will be down for a moment.
Mar 06 23:36:12 <tw2113>	might be why it's slow
Mar 06 23:36:22 <gregdek>	Sigh.
Mar 06 23:36:36 <JonRob>	tw2113: just saw a whloe load of "host down"
announcements - was scary!
Mar 06 23:36:54 <mether>	it is not even accessible for me now
Mar 06 23:36:58 <gregdek>	Well.
Mar 06 23:37:03 <iWolf>	server is being rebooted.
Mar 06 23:37:09 <iWolf>	one of the xen hosts.
Mar 06 23:37:13 <gregdek>	Looks like our meeting might be abended --
or at least delayed a bit.  :)
Mar 06 23:37:24 <mether>	lets continue discussing what we need to do
Mar 06 23:37:34 <stickster>	Apparently you guys have not hugged the
sysadmins enough today.
Mar 06 23:37:56 <tw2113>	we thought that was your job Paul
Mar 06 23:37:57 <tw2113>	part of being the leader and whatnot
Mar 06 23:38:09 <mether>	stickster: take the blame take the blame
Mar 06 23:38:09 <stickster>	I'm a hugger.  Ask anyone.
Mar 06 23:38:28 <stickster>	You're right!  [sobs violently]  I DIDN'T HUG TODAY!
Mar 06 23:38:41 <gregdek>	OK.
Mar 06 23:38:50 <gregdek>	Points of Parity / Points of Difference?
Mar 06 23:38:56 <gregdek>	Any questions / concerns there?
Mar 06 23:38:58 <stickster>	Parity == equality, yes?
Mar 06 23:39:01 <gregdek>	Yes.
Mar 06 23:39:03 <mether>	gregdek: i cant see it
Mar 06 23:39:07 <mether>	gregdek: paste it?
Mar 06 23:39:10 <stickster>	So why does our point there basically say
"Best user experience"?
Mar 06 23:39:11 *	jmbuser will update when possible
Mar 06 23:39:21 <stickster>	Because in my mind, that's stating a differentiator
Mar 06 23:39:30 *	quaid bails for kiddle pickup and dispersal
Mar 06 23:39:37 <gregdek>	== "none better".  <> "best".
Mar 06 23:39:44 <gregdek>	Bye quaid.
Mar 06 23:39:53 <stickster>	gregdek: Wellll... OK.
Mar 06 23:40:04 <mether>	what do we do with the marketing plan once we
have it. Are Red Hat marketing folks helping us after this?
Mar 06 23:40:04 <gregdek>	User Experience. Fedora offers a user
experience that is unsurpassed.
Mar 06 23:40:04 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 06 23:40:10 <gregdek>	mether: Certainly they will.
Mar 06 23:40:27 <gregdek>	I was hoping joadams would be here, but he's
unavailable, it seems.
Mar 06 23:40:31 <gregdek>	He'll be back around, though.
Mar 06 23:40:36 *	jmbuser achieves edit mode
Mar 06 23:40:45 <gregdek>	Once we actually nail our message, they'll
be able to help a lot with strategy and tactics.
Mar 06 23:40:51 <stickster>	gregdek: OK, I see -- basically "as good
or better than anything you've tried."
Mar 06 23:40:57 <gregdek>	stickster: Right.
Mar 06 23:41:05 <stickster>	Where can we extend that definition?
Mar 06 23:41:15 <gregdek>	...unclear.
Mar 06 23:41:33 <stickster>	*Without getting too geeky!* --> Hardware
support.  Installed a driver lately?
Mar 06 23:41:46 <gregdek>	Hm, nice.
Mar 06 23:41:47 <stickster>	The "Just Works" phenomenon
Mar 06 23:41:51 <gregdek>	Yeah.
Mar 06 23:41:57 <gregdek>	We've got to tread carefully there, though.
Mar 06 23:42:02 <mether>	are you talking about proprietary drivers there?
Mar 06 23:42:11 <stickster>	No, muddles the message.
Mar 06 23:42:12 <gregdek>	Because if the hardware is goofy, "Just
Works" isn't actually true.
Mar 06 23:42:15 <tw2113>	"Have you hugged your 'just works' OS yet?"
Mar 06 23:42:26 <gregdek>	This is where the messaging gets difficult.
Mar 06 23:42:29 <stickster>	I don't think so.
Mar 06 23:42:40 <mether>	I am not sure our message of free software
only works well with the idea of
Mar 06 23:42:42 <mether>	just works
Mar 06 23:42:47 <stickster>	For most hardware on some other O/S'es you
have to go through a very complicated dance just to make anything
work.
Mar 06 23:42:47 *	geroldka (n=Gerold fedora/geroldka) has left
#fedora-mktg ("Leaving")
Mar 06 23:43:03 <stickster>	Here, even if it's not whiz-bango, it will
likely work to an acceptable degree.
Mar 06 23:43:12 <JonRob>	does this not fall under messaging rather
than brand essence?
Mar 06 23:43:21 <gregdek>	But the message fails in some very basic
cases.  Transferring video, for instance.
Mar 06 23:43:23 <JonRob>	(positioning even)
Mar 06 23:43:35 *	jmbuser made changes
Mar 06 23:43:36 <stickster>	The essence == plugging things in just works.
Mar 06 23:43:40 <gregdek>	We want to say "the best of free software".
We cannot honestly say "just works".
Mar 06 23:43:53 <mether>	gregdek: right. I think we cant honestly
advertise just works as an idea for Fedora
Mar 06 23:43:55 <stickster>	The "plugging things in" simplifies the case.
Mar 06 23:43:56 <iWolf>	gregdek: +1
Mar 06 23:44:29 <gregdek>	stickster: You'll thank us for this later
when someone says "bullshit just works, my video camera is totally
broken."  :)
Mar 06 23:44:48 *	stickster goes back to his ivory tower.
Mar 06 23:44:52 <gregdek>	lol
Mar 06 23:45:08 <stickster>	Buy better shit!
Mar 06 23:45:11 <gregdek>	So what did we come up with as our "answer"?
 Because I'm not sure.
Mar 06 23:45:11 <stickster>	:-D
Mar 06 23:45:19 <tw2113>	so that's where the leader's office is
Mar 06 23:45:34 <gregdek>	He directs his armies with a laser pen.
Mar 06 23:45:53 <gregdek>	(Laser pen: the secret to catherding.)
Mar 06 23:45:58 <stickster>	Can we talk about parity with upstream
here without referring to upstream?
Mar 06 23:45:59 *	tw2113 apologizes for being all jokes and hardly
contributing seriously
Mar 06 23:46:08 <stickster>	I.e., new like they are?
Mar 06 23:46:12 <gregdek>	stickster: That's kind of what I'm trying to do, yeah.
Mar 06 23:46:14 <stickster>	"As new or newer"
Mar 06 23:46:28 <gregdek>	"Just as GNOME-y as they are!"
Mar 06 23:46:38 <gregdek>	"If not GNOME-y-er!"
Mar 06 23:46:44 <stickster>	lol
Mar 06 23:46:54 *	jmbuser got 502 error - going back in
Mar 06 23:46:55 <gregdek>	Let me put it this way:
Mar 06 23:47:15 <stickster>	Yeah, wiki's back up if anyone cares to
read along again.
Mar 06 23:47:16 <gregdek>	What message are we ready to shout
repeatedly at an event?
Mar 06 23:47:49 <mether>	best of free software is a message I am very
comfortable with
Mar 06 23:47:59 <JonRob>	what about the messages on Mairin's generic posters?
Mar 06 23:48:13 *	Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 06 23:48:15 <mether>	best of free software and open content could
be possible
Mar 06 23:48:16 <gregdek>	Person A says "Ubuntu is better".  Fedora
defender says "show me how Ubuntu is 'better', and I'll show you a bad
compromise that hurts free software".
Mar 06 23:48:26 <gregdek>	That's my standard line.
Mar 06 23:48:42 <stickster>	JonRob: 1. I love Mairin's posters.  2. We
don't want to harness ourselves to a three-word slogan that didn't get
dissected in this kind of plan
Mar 06 23:48:56 <stickster>	JonRob: We can definitely include them,
and fit them in properly though
Mar 06 23:49:04 *	gregdek looks at the clock.
Mar 06 23:49:08 <stickster>	onward!
Mar 06 23:49:09 <gregdek>	Do we want to table this one and move on?
Mar 06 23:49:13 <JonRob>	stickster: np, was just a thought as it
seemed like thye were ready made
Mar 06 23:49:24 <gregdek>	What do we think of the "Brand Personality"?
Mar 06 23:49:24 <tw2113>	i'll 2nd a table
Mar 06 23:49:27 <stickster>	gregdek: I think we run a risk of tabling too much
Mar 06 23:49:30 <mether>	JonRob: are you editing
Mar 06 23:49:37 <JonRob>	mether: no
Mar 06 23:49:40 <gregdek>	stickster: We're going to have to come back
and back over this ground anyway.
Mar 06 23:49:50 <stickster>	Fair enough, then
Mar 06 23:49:52 <mether>	JonRob: ok. so I will
Mar 06 23:50:28 <gregdek>	"Brand Personality" -- to me, this means a
personification of what the person who loves our brand is like.
Mar 06 23:50:56 <gregdek>	And I wrote my take on that.
Mar 06 23:50:58 <stickster>	Nerd Like Me.
Mar 06 23:50:59 <tw2113>	always wears his button up shirt open
Mar 06 23:51:22 <tw2113>	is a fan of hats
Mar 06 23:51:30 <gregdek>	Heh.
Mar 06 23:51:33 *	jmbuser did the edits - please review
Mar 06 23:51:43 <stickster>	Fun-loving, but knows when to say when.
Mar 06 23:51:59 <tw2113>	loves to tinker
Mar 06 23:52:14 <stickster>	Gives up the seat to elderly and pregnant women.
Mar 06 23:52:14 <tw2113>	wants free access to anywhere he goes?
Mar 06 23:52:34 <jmbuser>	gregdek: I like the edler brother imagery
Mar 06 23:52:43 <gregdek>	Is willing to suffer discomfort for the
challenge of making something better.
Mar 06 23:52:44 <jmbuser>	s /edler /elder /
Mar 06 23:52:50 <stickster>	Stoic.
Mar 06 23:52:56 <gregdek>	But not too awful stoic.
Mar 06 23:53:01 <jmbuser>	Makes the tough calls
Mar 06 23:53:04 <stickster>	Stoic, but really wordy.
Mar 06 23:53:13 <tw2113>	the big brother that won't beat you up for
playing for the other team, but will try to pursuade you over
Mar 06 23:53:17 <gregdek>	A good communist like you see in old Russian posters.
Mar 06 23:53:22 <stickster>	gregdek: XX FAIL
Mar 06 23:53:27 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 06 23:53:27 <jmbuser>	eyes upward
Mar 06 23:53:28 <stickster>	haha
Mar 06 23:53:36 <gregdek>	Eyes upward!  Exactly!
Mar 06 23:53:41 <JonRob>	tw2113: would be such an awesome poster!!
Mar 06 23:53:48 <jmbuser>	sleeve rolled up with a wrench in one hand
Mar 06 23:53:50 <stickster>	"They Had Their Eyes on Heaven."
Mar 06 23:53:57 <stickster>	Rosie the Riveter!
Mar 06 23:54:03 <gregdek>	I'm telling you.  Those communists knew
their propaganda.  Social realism.
Mar 06 23:54:06 <JonRob>	oh that could be an awesome poster
Mar 06 23:54:08 <tw2113>	"They had their eyes on the infinite abyss"
Mar 06 23:54:14 <stickster>	That sounds... scary
Mar 06 23:54:17 <JonRob>	what's all this "had"
Mar 06 23:54:22 <JonRob>	has :)
Mar 06 23:54:23 <tw2113>	have*
Mar 06 23:54:31 <JonRob>	or have yes lol
Mar 06 23:54:39 <jmbuser>	gazing on infinity
Mar 06 23:54:39 <JonRob>	anyway...where is this heading exactly?
Mar 06 23:54:42 <tw2113>	"With Fedora, the terrorists haven't won"
Mar 06 23:54:53 <stickster>	We're not being funny, we're really trying
to figure out a personality.
Mar 06 23:54:56 <gregdek>	Where this is going:
Mar 06 23:55:04 <stickster>	Shadowman is a personality, but he
personifies Red Hat, for example.
Mar 06 23:55:04 <gregdek>	Well, what stickster said.
Mar 06 23:55:12 <gregdek>	We're looking for the personification of our brand.
Mar 06 23:55:12 *	stickster gives back the thunda
Mar 06 23:55:23 <gregdek>	Just like Shadowman has become the
personification of the Red Hat brand.
Mar 06 23:55:28 <JonRob>	ok cool - just like to keep my head straight :)
Mar 06 23:55:30 <tw2113>	aw carpy! i have to leave soon
Mar 06 23:55:39 <gregdek>	Yeah, we're running up on our hour.
Mar 06 23:55:40 <stickster>	Spartacus.
Mar 06 23:55:46 <gregdek>	I AM SPARTACUS!
Mar 06 23:55:58 <stickster>	If you want the movie personification of
Fedora, that's it.
Mar 06 23:56:02 <gregdek>	Spartacus.  Braveheart.
Mar 06 23:56:07 <tw2113>	This Is Fedora
Mar 06 23:56:09 <jmbuser>	Gladiator
Mar 06 23:56:18
<JonRob>	http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=rosie+the+riveter&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1
Mar 06 23:56:19 <gregdek>	Ben Hur.
Mar 06 23:56:24 <stickster>	Well, except William Wallace slept with
someone else's wife, which is arguably not kosher.
Mar 06 23:56:25 <JonRob>	i really think awesome stuff could be done with this
Mar 06 23:56:33 <stickster>	(in the movie, no idea about IRL)
Mar 06 23:56:33 <JonRob>	and because it's a well known image would
have a lot of impact
Mar 06 23:56:34 <gregdek>	stickster: Killjoy.
Mar 06 23:56:36 <stickster>	gregdek: lol
Mar 06 23:56:42 <gregdek>	OK...
Mar 06 23:56:58 <jmbuser>	MS has a real heroes campaign going on -
just to let you know
Mar 06 23:57:00 <gregdek>	...so let's think more about this and maybe
comment on-list.
Mar 06 23:57:00 <tw2113>	i'm thinking of an audio clip for a
prowrestler that i could maybe make into something about Fedora
Mar 06 23:57:00 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 06 23:57:03 <tw2113>	i'll check it out later
Mar 06 23:57:17 <stickster>	jmbuser: So did Hitler, I think.
Mar 06 23:57:19 <gregdek>	That leaves Strategy and Tactics, which we
haven't even touched yet, and we're at the end of our hour.
Mar 06 23:57:45 *	stickster can keep going but is sensitive to others'
valuable time.
Mar 06 23:58:00 *	gregdek can keep going for another 1/2hr, for those
who can join us.
Mar 06 23:58:05 <JonRob>	i'm good for 10 more mins
Mar 06 23:58:13 *	jmbuser is fine with that
Mar 06 23:58:14 *	iWolf is still here
Mar 06 23:58:20 <tw2113>	i'm good for as long as it takes to get
dressed for work
Mar 06 23:58:30 <stickster>	tw2113: the secret is layers
Mar 06 23:58:33 <gregdek>	Do we want to dig into S+T?
Mar 06 23:58:35 <stickster>	gregdek: onward!
Mar 06 23:58:37 <tw2113>	i'll just read the minutes for what i miss
Mar 06 23:58:43 <gregdek>	S+T!  jonrob?
Mar 06 23:58:48 <JonRob>	yeah sure let's do it
Mar 06 23:59:06 <gregdek>	Warning: this is huge and will take multiple
meetings.  :)
Mar 06 23:59:21 <stickster>	right.
Mar 06 23:59:30 <gregdek>	(In fact, will likely be the heart of this
group does, once we've established the basics.)
Mar 06 23:59:44 <gregdek>	Any comments on what we've got so far?
Mar 06 23:59:54 <stickster>	Maybe it makes more sense, then, to make
sure we've nailed down the foregoing parts.
Mar 07 00:00:11 <gregdek>	Hm.
Mar 07 00:00:12 <gregdek>	Maybe.
Mar 07 00:00:16 *	iWolf made  comments on the list
Mar 07 00:00:19 <stickster>	Since we'll live in that section for{ever, longer}.
Mar 07 00:00:28 <JonRob>	stickster: my only question is what of the
short/medium terms
Mar 07 00:00:28 <gregdek>	(oops... /me must wander afk, brb...)
Mar 07 00:00:34 <JonRob>	this document aims to make a difference long-term
Mar 07 00:00:43 <JonRob>	but i think we really need to make
improvements in the short term too
Mar 07 00:00:45 <stickster>	o noez! we had a leeder but dey eated him.
Mar 07 00:01:01 <mether>	what is working and what is not working in
whatever we have tried so far
Mar 07 00:01:05 <mether>	lets get to that
Mar 07 00:01:13 <JonRob>	mether: +1
Mar 07 00:01:34 <mether>	i see some articles getting diggs and some
just getting lost in the interviews we make for example
Mar 07 00:01:36 <stickster>	Things which work:  * Our release
schedule.  (predictability)
Mar 07 00:01:43 <tw2113>	talk to you all later
Mar 07 00:01:44 <mether>	but interviews in general are a good strategy
Mar 07 00:01:53 <JonRob>	tw2113: bye :)
Mar 07 00:02:07 <stickster>	mether: Notice that the one article which
concerned the larger world (Jack + NASA) got a HUGE uptake on digg.
Mar 07 00:02:13 <mether>	since it keeps us in the news and highlights
our contributions. makes our contributors proud
Mar 07 00:02:15 <jmbuser>	tw2113: bye
Mar 07 00:02:18 <JonRob>	stickster: true
Mar 07 00:02:24 <stickster>	I think we need to strive for relevance
beyond just the FOSS community.
Mar 07 00:02:39 <jmbuser>	NASA article most dugg Fedora article of all time
Mar 07 00:02:47 <mether>	wikipedia is a big Fedora user. Have we
approached them?
Mar 07 00:02:52 <stickster>	mether: Great idea!
Mar 07 00:02:56 <JonRob>	mether: i had no idea
Mar 07 00:02:58 <JonRob>	but it's a damn good idea
Mar 07 00:03:00 <jmbuser>	+1
Mar 07 00:03:07 <stickster>	Google is too, but somehow I think we may
not get as much traction there ;-)
Mar 07 00:03:24 <jmbuser>	Google has a brown tint ltely
Mar 07 00:03:29 <mether>	JonRob:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers
Mar 07 00:03:39 <jmbuser>	s / ltely /lately /
Mar 07 00:03:39 <JonRob>	but then the question remains, what medium do we use?
Mar 07 00:04:04 <stickster>	jmbuser: ?
Mar 07 00:04:23 <mether>	there are two things to be done
Mar 07 00:04:39 <mether>	find out the big users and promote that.
figure out how to retain them and solve their issues
Mar 07 00:04:52 <stickster>	(while remaining true to our mission)
Mar 07 00:05:02 <mether>	it will help us understand out strong points too
Mar 07 00:05:11 *	jmbuser refers to recent hostings of other distro's
conferences
Mar 07 00:05:16 <JonRob>	mether: +1
Mar 07 00:05:34 <gregdek>	Wow, I walk away and you guys start a *real* meeting.
Mar 07 00:05:38 <stickster>	jmbuser: They've also funded at least one
FUDCon that I know of.
Mar 07 00:05:48 <stickster>	s/funded/funded in part/
Mar 07 00:05:48 <mether>	I am pretty sure a lot of RHEL users use
Fedora in parallel
Mar 07 00:05:59 <mether>	thats where Red Hat marketing can help
Mar 07 00:06:01 <stickster>	mether: What's the second thing?
Mar 07 00:06:02 <jmbuser>	stickster: How come I never heard about it?
Mar 07 00:06:05 <stickster>	Or was that it?
Mar 07 00:06:10 <mether>	stickster: that was it
Mar 07 00:06:13 <JonRob>	yeah, i was about to ask if RedHat could help
us find out who's using Fedora
Mar 07 00:06:16 <stickster>	ok
Mar 07 00:06:45 <mether>	jmbuser: fudcon boston 2007 - they were one
of the sponsors
Mar 07 00:06:51 <stickster>	It may or may not be possible for some or
all of them to tell us as a matter of competitive strategery
Mar 07 00:07:12 <stickster>	If you do or don't ask me, the above notwithstanding
Mar 07 00:07:36 <mether>	sure. so let's say we talk to the ones that
are willing to talk to us
Mar 07 00:07:47 <jmbuser>	My point is that Ubuntu has the perception
of being really tight with Google, which lets them bask in Google's
reflected glory
Mar 07 00:07:56 <jmbuser>	eof
Mar 07 00:08:23 <mether>	we dont need to pick a fight on that account to win
Mar 07 00:08:24 <gregdek>	jmbuser: Good.
Mar 07 00:08:34 <gregdek>	Because it's time for us to associate with wikia.  :)
Mar 07 00:08:39 *	stickster thought that was all hoax anyway.
Mar 07 00:08:43 <stickster>	But yeah, who cares?
Mar 07 00:08:59 *	stickster likes the tie in between wikia,
distributed web crawling, and the new Fedora @Home idea.
Mar 07 00:09:04 <gregdek>	Ding ding ding.
Mar 07 00:09:16 <gregdek>	There's gonna be a *ton* of cool stuff we
can do with that.
Mar 07 00:09:27 <gregdek>	In fact, and I think we may be moving more
into board-level strategy here...
Mar 07 00:09:31 <mether>	yeah. I think we got the message of
innovation out there with atleast a few different projects
Mar 07 00:09:37 <mether>	smolt is one
Mar 07 00:09:40 <mether>	SELinux is another
Mar 07 00:09:57 <jmbuser>	spins
Mar 07 00:10:08 <mether>	We should keep promoting transifex too.
Fedora home could be the next big thing
Mar 07 00:10:12 <jmbuser>	pulseaudio
Mar 07 00:10:14 *	stickster interjects once again that what sells
papers is Relevance to the Common Man. Even on the interwebz.
Mar 07 00:10:21 <gregdek>	...a comprehensive agreement with Jimbo
Wales to strengthen the Fedora/Wikia branding, including using Wikia
as our default search in Firefox/Iceweasel/whatever, would make a
*HUGE* statement about what we *really* think about Google.
Mar 07 00:10:22 <mether>	along with Virtualization
Mar 07 00:10:37 <jmbuser>	gregdek: +1
Mar 07 00:10:39 <JonRob>	gregdek +1
Mar 07 00:10:49 <jmbuser>	great association
Mar 07 00:10:55 <JonRob>	so, as a follow up, who wants to get in touch
with the wikia people?
Mar 07 00:10:59 <gregdek>	I will.
Mar 07 00:11:02 <mether>	gregdek: how does that match with the
agreement with Google that is ongoing now?
Mar 07 00:11:05 <gregdek>	Actually, I'll ask Jack to.
Mar 07 00:11:09 <stickster>	What agreement?
Mar 07 00:11:12 <gregdek>	mether: That agreement is dead.
Mar 07 00:11:19 <stickster>	We agree... to disagree.
Mar 07 00:11:25 <mether>	there has been one under discussion for a long while
Mar 07 00:11:29 <mether>	afaik
Mar 07 00:11:32 <gregdek>	The one at the board level?
Mar 07 00:11:35 <mether>	yes
Mar 07 00:11:36 <gregdek>	The one I was spearheading?
Mar 07 00:11:40 <stickster>	lol
Mar 07 00:11:45 <mether>	gregdek: YES
Mar 07 00:11:51 <gregdek>	The one that I killed earlier this week
because Google lawyers are intractable?
Mar 07 00:11:53 <gregdek>	That one?
Mar 07 00:11:54 <gregdek>	:)
Mar 07 00:12:02 *	stickster has paroxysms
Mar 07 00:12:03 <mether>	you never informed us. so...
Mar 07 00:12:07 <gregdek>	...
Mar 07 00:12:09 <jmbuser>	:-(
Mar 07 00:12:13 <gregdek>	I sent it to the board.
Mar 07 00:12:13 <mether>	anyway, so lets talk to wikia then
Mar 07 00:12:23 <gregdek>	Sorry, I should have sent it out more broadly.
Mar 07 00:12:34 <gregdek>	stickster: should I resend that note to f-a-l?
Mar 07 00:12:38 <JonRob>	i think it also sends a strong singal of us
leading innvoation, as was done with the wifi drivers etc too
Mar 07 00:13:05 <stickster>	gregdek: I don't know... it was all
theoretical as far as I could see -- was there actual Board work on
this pre-February?
Mar 07 00:13:20 <mether>	gregdek: i think you should announce the
agreement with wikia asap.
Mar 07 00:13:23 *	gregdek hrms.
Mar 07 00:13:26 <stickster>	It would be great if we had one first.
Mar 07 00:13:30 <JonRob>	lol
Mar 07 00:13:32 <gregdek>	Well, people who read the irc logs will know.  :)
Mar 07 00:13:34 <mether>	thats the hint
Mar 07 00:13:39 *	gregdek shrugs.
Mar 07 00:13:48 <stickster>	swymamwys.
Mar 07 00:13:52 <mether>	anyway, move on
Mar 07 00:14:01 <gregdek>	I don't think anyone outside of a few people
will care that "the Fedora deal with Google that wasn't coming through
still isn't coming through."
Mar 07 00:14:10 <stickster>	disco.
Mar 07 00:14:10 <gregdek>	But I think *a ton* of people will care if
we can make a deal with Wikia.
Mar 07 00:14:17 <gregdek>	Therefore, I will work on Jimbo.  sok?
Mar 07 00:14:27 <mether>	sure
Mar 07 00:14:27 <stickster>	gregdek: This we should definitely post on f-a-b.
Mar 07 00:15:13 <gregdek>	stickster: It may involve breaking
partnership with Mozilla, since helping them maintain their deal with
Google seems to be part of our deal to use the Firefox name.
Mar 07 00:15:13 <stickster>	So I think we can definitely tie this in
to S&T -- users --> contributors in Fedora-land.
Mar 07 00:15:25 <gregdek>	(Sorry, I'll take this offline.(
Mar 07 00:16:05 <JonRob>	np
Mar 07 00:16:14 <JonRob>	i think i'm about done with this for the evening
Mar 07 00:16:43 <JonRob>	(lol sorry, that sounded way more negative
than i meant - been a rough day here!)
Mar 07 00:16:52 <gregdek>	Ha!
Mar 07 00:17:01 *	jmbuser makes last call for wiki edit
Mar 07 00:17:03 <gregdek>	I think we've had a great meeting, but I
think it's breaking up.
Mar 07 00:17:15 <stickster>	We did in fact hit some S&T heer.
Mar 07 00:17:16 <stickster>	*here
Mar 07 00:17:56 <stickster>	My constant reiteration is going to be
"relevance."  Someone said to me the other day, with regard to the
Fedora @Home MRG thing, "We could help SETI!"
Mar 07 00:18:06 <stickster>	My response was basically, "Screw that, we
could help kids with cancer."
Mar 07 00:18:20 <JonRob>	stickster: is very true
Mar 07 00:18:21 <stickster>	After which I realized, "We could do
both," was right.
Mar 07 00:18:37 <JonRob>	anyhow all,
Mar 07 00:18:42 <stickster>	But one of those will "sell papers."
Three guesses which!
Mar 07 00:18:43 <JonRob>	nice to speak to everyone as always
Mar 07 00:19:06 <JonRob>	are we doing this same time next week? i
might not be here actually, going home for easter :)
Mar 07 00:19:31 <gregdek>	I would like to, yes.
Mar 07 00:19:48 <gregdek>	Even if not everyone shows.  I think
consistent meeting times are incredibly important.
Mar 07 00:19:56 <JonRob>	ok - good by me
Mar 07 00:20:01 *	jmbuser will publish log
Mar 07 00:20:06 <JonRob>	thanks all, and best wishes :)
Mar 07 00:20:11 <mether>	yep
Mar 07 00:20:18 *	JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")
Mar 07 00:20:25 <mether>	everybody else
Mar 07 00:20:30 <mether>	refresh once the marketing plan page
Mar 07 00:20:36 <mether>	and see if there is something we disagree with
Mar 07 00:20:45 <mether>	since  a number of edits have been made
Mar 07 00:21:55 <mether>	did everyone leave?
Mar 07 00:22:16 <gregdek>	Heh.
Mar 07 00:22:20 <gregdek>	I did.
Mar 07 00:24:00 <jmbuser>	mether: what happened to FOSS mixers? seems
to be deleted from your last save
Mar 07 00:24:20 <mether>	nah
Mar 07 00:24:22 <mether>	it is still there
Mar 07 00:24:26 <stickster>	jmbuser: Are you still editing?
Mar 07 00:24:55 <jmbuser>	mether got the last edit in - I got 502 error :-)
Mar 07 00:28:16 *	stickster fixes the market w/hubris.
Mar 07 00:28:27 <jmbuser>	Is anyone calling the meeting?
Mar 07 00:28:41 *	jmbuser needs to know where to end log
Mar 07 00:29:16 <mether>	you can end when jonrob left
Mar 07 00:29:19 <stickster>	</meeting>


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