Please _do not_ strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

Sun Feb 5 09:49:59 UTC 2006

How difficult would it be to build in the ability, and make it configurable? 
I can see the argument to both sides; doesn't _seem_ like it would be that 
difficult to make it configurable; then again I am not the one writing the 
code and haven't even looked at it so.....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Timms" <dtimms at bigpond.net.au>
To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases" 
<fedora-test-list at redhat.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Please _do not_ strip out the patch that brings up applications 
behind gnome-terminal

> Fulko.Hew at sita.aero wrote:
>
>>Dave Atkins <thedave at ix.netcom.com> on  02/01/2006 12:48 PM responded 
>>with:
>>
>>>On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 21:09 -0800, Miles Lane wrote:
>>>. . .
>>>
>>>If it's down to voting for one or the other, I can't stand applications
>>>that steal the focus or the foreground.
>>>
>>
>>I agree with that statement.  Applications that are already running
>>shouldn't steal focus,  However the first window an application creates
>>should _always_ be on top.
>>
> What if in your terminal you type in succession:
> oocalc &
> mozilla &
> mplayer &
> and every app takes 5-10-15 seconds to show ? (like if you don't have the 
> fastest / most recent machine on the block).
> Do you want the first one you started to end up on top, the second or the 
> third ? Or maybe the fastest, (which you start typing in) then second 
> fastest comes over top, stealing the focus, then third fastest.
> When I work, the other apps are just tools that I know I'll be needing 
> soon; and I want them to be ready for my input when I am ready to give 
> them some work (focus) to do.
>
>>I really don't understand why you would want to start an application,
>>and yet have its window buried underneath everything else.
>>After all, the reason you executed it, was to use it.
>>
>>For the last 20 years the convention has been that when an
>>application is executed, its window appears on the top of
>>the stack.  This shouldn't change.
>>
> Yes, it really should change. Forcing people to do things in a less than 
> productive way for a long time doesn't make it right or better! Think of 
> your computer as your personal assistant: tell it to go do something; when 
> _you_ are ready respond to the results (app) that it has created, you 
> change the focus yourself using Alt-Tab (or the mouse if you want to do it 
> the slow way).
>
>>And if you started an app to use it later, then its your responsibility
>>to push it down the stack wherever _you_ want.
>>
> No, I'm doing work involving multiple apps (even maybe testing FC). I need 
> to gedit  a log file, open bugzilla in a browser, and do a dir list. While 
> these separate apps are starting up, I re-started the app again from the 
> menu etc / blah.
>
>>...
>>And finally, to have special code in a terminal emulator that is trying
>>to second guess what to do based on the timing of typing is ridiculous.
>>
> I agree it's not worth changing the default behaviour for terminals 
> because the new way is better.
>
>>> Try using internet explorer
>>>while working in word, and see how distracting it is.
>>>
>>I'm not to sure I understand what your compalining about.
>>When I use 'word' its on top, and has focus, any painting IE does,
>>or any other app for that matter, happens underneath.  (BTW I always
>>use overlapping windows, not full screen windows.)
>>
> What about a web site that waits a bit then pops up another window, right 
> over the top of where you are typing in oowriter. Another great reason for 
> focus to stay on what you are working on. You'll get to those other apps 
> when _you_ are ready for them, not when it eventually finishes loading. 
> You are the master; the computer is _your_ slave :)
>
>>>I have really become accustomed to indicating with my mouse onto which
>>>window I want in front, and into which window I'd like to type.
>>>
>>Agreed, but thats once everything has started.
>>
> Alt-Tab has been around a long time for switching to next window (which in 
> this case turns out to be the one you are yet to click on and pre 
> started).
> If I have an email with some pages of text, and a link or attachment, I 
> would prefer to click on the attachment, causing it to preload while I 
> continue to read the rest of the email. When I finish reading the mail, I 
> alt-tab to the created window. This is a time saving way to work. I get 
> enough interuptions all day without the computer interupting me!
>
>>... snip ...
>>
>>Hopefully, this is 'start under' broken behavious a only a gnome thing,
>>and KDE doesn't turn its back on 20 years of standards
>>
> Hopefully, this much better behaviour becomes standard soon, and on all 
> operating systems.
> DaveT.
>
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