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IRC log 26/6



21:03 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Init
21:03 < glezos> couf: You'll be chair-ing?
21:03 < couf> sure
21:03 < couf> <meeting>
21:03 < couf> <rollcall>
21:03 < couf> So who's here?
21:04 < [splinux]> DamienDurand
21:04 < couf> BartCouvreur
21:04 < glezos> DimitrisGlezos (el)
21:04 < fabian_a> FabianAffolter
21:04 < Samiby> SamuelBizien (fr)
21:04 < noriko> Noriko Mizumoto (ja)
21:04 < Raven46> PiotrDrÄ…g (pl)
21:04 < stavrosg> Stavros Giannouris (el)
21:04 < vpv> VillePekkaVainio (fi)
21:04 < DomingoBecker> DomingoBecker (es)
21:04 < Rasther> DiegoZacarao (pt_BR)
21:04 < glezos> coolness. :)
21:05 < couf> </roolcall>
21:05 < couf> Hi everyone, and welcome to the 2nd L10N-meeting
21:05 < couf> meeting agenda:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings
21:05 < couf> as last week, please try and keep to the meeting protocol,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Protocol
21:06 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Elvis
21:06 < couf> > glezos 
21:06 < glezos> Yo.
21:06 < glezos> :)
21:06 < glezos> So, a big deal of stuff are happening around elvis
21:06 < glezos> Many people seem to want to move everything from the
i18n.redhat.com infrastructure over to Fedora infrastructure
21:07 < glezos> This is important for translations because we won't have
to maintain two accounts, but only one, on Fedora
21:07 < glezos> which we can use to do some nice stuff like the
l10n-commits list, etc.
21:07 < glezos> I've contacted the maintainers of packages on elvis
(i18n.redhat.com) and scheduled the move.
21:08 < glezos> Here is the page monitoring the process:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR/ElvisMove
21:08 -!- giangy is now known as gian\out
21:08 < glezos> What we need as FLP is to update our guides until July
5th
21:09 < glezos> because I'll send a mass email to 2000 people who have
done translations on elvis, to ask them to create accounts on Fedora
(cvsl10n)
21:09 < glezos> Help would be greatly needed for this matter :)
21:09 < glezos> Anyone willing to help update the Translation Quick
Start Guide, and probably our wiki pages /Join and/or more help pages?
21:09 < Samiby> ?
21:10 < couf> glezos: eof?
21:10 < glezos> couf: I guess. :) eof
21:10 < couf> > Samiby 
21:10 < Samiby> what kind of help is needed ? just update these pages ?
eof
21:10 < glezos> Most of the modules will move from elvis to either
cvs.fedoraproject.org or some other SCM
21:11 < glezos> so yes, just update and probably put some more
introductory text for people not experienced with our tools
21:11 < glezos> eof
21:12 < couf> anybody around with Docs-knowledge, who'd want to help
with the TQSG?
21:13 < glezos> !
21:13 < couf> > glezos 
21:14 < glezos> couf: Probably that's more of a Docs issue, no? We could
start just by documenting some useful steps/advices, just like we did on
wiki/Join, and then think of putting them into more formal text in TQSG
21:14 < glezos> Some help is definitely needed in our wiki domain
21:14 < glezos> eof
21:15 < couf> So let me rephrase then, who'd like to help write up some
guidelines with the new info?
21:16 < couf> and/or open a bug on the TQSG with the new info
21:16 < glezos> I can prepare a draft page, or some steps that need
better documenting
21:17 < glezos> Someone could for example tidy-up a bit our wiki
homepage at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N
21:17 < glezos> it's a mess :)
21:18 < couf> This should probably go onto a Tasks-page, so anyone
willing to do so can have a go at it. Comments / suggestions?
21:18 < noriko> !
21:18 < couf> > noriko 
21:19 < noriko> what is rough schedule the things to be done?!
21:19 < glezos> !
21:19 < noriko> sorry
21:19 < noriko> eof
21:19 < couf> > glezos 
21:19 < glezos> On July 5th we'll do the move
21:20 < noriko> pretty soon :)
21:20 < glezos> This Saturday I'll send the email to translators, so
they'll start registering on cvsl10n
21:20 < noriko> !
21:20 < couf> > noriko 
21:20 < glezos> noriko: yes.. I've been mentioning this for a while now,
and the truth is that we've delayed it too :)
21:20 < noriko> I will have a look TQSG
21:20 < Samiby> !
21:20 < noriko> welcome anyone else to join
21:20 < noriko> eof
21:21 < couf> thanks noriko 
21:21 < couf> > Samiby 
21:21 < Samiby> didn't translators were added automatically to cvsl10n
group ?(I was ...)
21:21 < Samiby> eof
21:22 < couf> Samiby: so you got added to cvsl10n without adding
yourself?
21:22 -!- ricky [i=ricky fedora/ricky] has quit [Remote closed the
connection]
21:22 < glezos> Samiby: people who have access to i18n.redhat.com do not
have an account to the Fedora Account System
21:22 < Samiby> couf> yes
21:23 -!- alefteris [n=alefteri unaffiliated/alefteris] has joined
#fedora-meeting
21:23 < glezos> Anyone who wants to become a member of cvsl10n should
ssh-sign the CLA
21:23 -!- runa_b [n=runa 122 169 6 197] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:23 < glezos> eof
21:23 < couf> ! > couf 
21:24 < couf> one thing I'd like to ask is that everyone who knows
translators, tries to get them into FAS before the move
21:24 < couf> and a second thing, if someone wants to help manage that
group (approving members), that would be great
21:24 < couf> eog
21:24 < couf> eof
21:25 < couf> anything else on the move, or can we move on?
21:26 < couf> 5
21:26 < couf> 4
21:26 < couf> 3
21:26 < couf> 2
21:26 < couf> 1
21:26 < couf> okay, next up: updates to translate.fp.o > glezos 
21:26 < glezos> l10n.fedoraproject.org redirects now to translate.fpo
21:26 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
translate.fp.o
21:27 < glezos> The "submit" part is a project called Transifex, which
is hosted at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/transifex
21:27 < glezos> it will probalby be mounted at translate.fpo/submit/
21:27 < glezos> In case anyone wants to take a quick peek, here's a link
to my workstation:
http://84.9.194.173:8084/submit/module/fedora-hg/smolt/tip/submit
21:28 < glezos> (not sure it will work at all!)
21:28 < glezos> it's progressing, and I expect to have a working
prototype which does commit in 2 days.
21:28 < glezos> eof
21:29 < couf> glezos: will translate.fp.o be our main resource after the
move off of elvis?
21:29 < glezos> couf: oh, yeah, forgot to mention that.
21:30 < glezos> translate.fpo will hold the translations and the submit
side. It's better if we used the wiki for everything else
21:30 < glezos> The cool thing with this is that some projects will move
from elvis to systems *other* than CVS
21:30 < Samiby> ?
21:30 -!- k0k [n=k0k fedora/k0k] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:30 < glezos> so, do commit to these systems, we'll be able to use
Transifex.
21:31  * noriko is having trouble to get there...
21:31 < glezos> for those modules moving to cvs.fpo, we'll have cvs
access as well.
21:31 < glezos> eof
21:31 < couf> > Samiby 
21:31 < Samiby> he answered my question before i asked it ... eof :)
21:31 -!- ecik [n=ecik fedora/ecik] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:32 < couf> cool, anyone got something on the website?
21:32 < couf> s/something/something else/
21:33 < couf> okay, let's move on
21:33 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Bugs
21:33 < couf> as you might have seen bugs are coming onto the list
21:34 < couf> right now, it's hopefully configured to be as low traffic
as possible
21:34 < couf> if it leads to problems later on, we should maybe think of
creating a seperate list for bugs and possibly cvs commits
21:35 < glezos> !
21:35 < couf> > glezos 
21:35 < glezos> On this matter, I've told Infra that we'll create a
"Request" list of stuff we'd like them to do
21:35 < glezos> Two examples are: auto-merge po files for Docs and all
modules hosted to cvs.fpo, and another one is to forward commits to
those POT files
                to l10n-commits
21:36 < glezos> I'll put up this page shortly.
21:36 < glezos> eof
21:36 -!- couf_ [n=bart fedora/couf] has quit [Remote closed the
connection]
21:36 -!- couf_ [n=bart fedora/couf] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:37 < couf> as a general reminder, please take a look at the
owners.list and add your language if it doen't exist yet
21:37 < couf> s/doen't/doesn't
21:37 < glezos> *and* in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams
21:38 < couf> next topic?
21:39 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Wiki translations
21:40 < couf> so this got brought up on the websites-list, we should
think of a way to organize this a bit better
21:40  * couf searches list-links
21:40 < glezos> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Wikipages
21:41 < couf>
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00169.html
21:41 < glezos> Samiby is the person who started it.
21:41 < couf> Samiby: this was your topic, anything you'd like to say on
it?
21:41 < Samiby> yes
21:42 < couf> > Samiby 
21:42 < Samiby> It was discussed that we'll have to ask art team for
flags, and infrastructure team to see if it's possible to manage it
automtically
21:42 < Samiby> who is in charge for this ?
21:42 < Samiby> eof
21:42 < glezos> Samiby: you? :)
21:42 < Samiby> err ... ok :)
21:43 < glezos> !
21:43 < couf> > glezos 
21:43 < glezos> Samiby: can you bring this up also on -trans-list so
that people know about it?
21:43 < glezos> Samiby: can you make sure everyone is bugged enough so
that we fix this?
21:43 < Samiby> I could, but is it necessarry to spread the word about
subpages mechanism if infrastructure team can make it automatically ?
21:44 -!- Rasther_
[n=diego 200-101-234-68 fnsce7003 e brasiltelecom net br] has joined
#fedora-meeting
21:44 < glezos> Samiby: it's mostly up to the websites team. And the
only way for them to fix it, is someone to tell them "do this because
this other 
                approach is worse"
21:45 < Samiby> Ok, so ... i'll ask them. And talk to trans-list.
21:45 < Samiby> eof
21:45 < glezos> BTW, for those who haven't followed the discussion,
we're thinking of how to make a wiki page point to its translations
21:45 < glezos> Samiby: cool.
21:45 -!- boto [n=ehabkost 201 21 189 129] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:45 < glezos> couf: you around?
21:46 < vpv> !
21:46 < glezos> I'd like to leave 10 minutes at the end of the meeting
for everyone to discuss whatever one would like
21:46 < glezos> > vpv
21:46 < vpv> I think I saw a new moin feature on #moin-dev that would
support translation directly, without sub pages
21:47 < vpv> they had a menu for all the different languages
21:47 < glezos> vpv: cool. Are you subscribed to -websites-list?
21:47 < vpv> but I guess this is still in development and might be many
months until released
21:47 < vpv> yes I am
21:47 < Samiby> !
21:47 < vpv> eof
21:47 < glezos> Samiby: feel free to discuss.
21:48 < Samiby> maybe we could use their work, and patch our wiki from
it
21:48 < glezos> vpv: nevertheless, it might be worth it. I mean, if the
effort needed to translate with subpages is greater than the effort to
put that 
                patch, then we should go for the patch.
21:48 -!- ricky [i=ricky fedora/ricky] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:48 < glezos> we can discuss this issue on list then.
21:48 < glezos> any other comments?
21:48 < DomingoBecker> ?
21:48 < glezos> (on this topic)
21:48 < glezos> > DomingoBecker
21:49 < DomingoBecker> Did I read well in the list
21:49 < DomingoBecker> someone said that fp.o will start using
21:49 < DomingoBecker> plone
21:49 < DomingoBecker> eof
21:49 < glezos> yes
21:50 < DomingoBecker> !
21:50 < glezos> as far as I know, two people are working on it
21:50 < glezos> DomingoBecker: speak freely. :)
21:50 < glezos> daMaestro is the one (one of the developers of revisor)
21:50 < DomingoBecker> then this issue should be resolved when the wiki
uses plone
21:50 < glezos> They are adding i18n capabilities, so it will be
translatable.
21:51 < glezos> DomingoBecker: the wiki will continue to exist
21:51 < glezos> DomingoBecker: it's just the static pages at
http://fedoraproject.org/ and docs.fpo that will use Plone
21:51 < DomingoBecker> ah, ok
21:51 < DomingoBecker> the wiki will continue using moin
21:51 < glezos> The wiki will still be used for development and
collaborative effort. However, *some* content will be moved, which is
great beacuse it will be localizable.
21:51 < glezos> yes
21:51 < glezos> couf: back?
21:51 < couf> glezos: yep
21:52 < DomingoBecker> eof
21:52 < couf> glezos: for as much as I know, plone will be used for more
then just the static-pages
21:52 < couf> basic project-pages will be in plone aswell
21:53 < glezos> couf: Right. But that's like 2% of our content. :)
21:53 < couf> true, but it's the most important content to translate,
and that's a good goal :-)
21:53 < glezos> right.
21:54 -!- Rasther [n=diego fedora/Rasther] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
21:54 < glezos> I'm eof for this subject btw
21:55 < couf> okay, sorry, and other comments to the wiki-trans?
21:56 < glezos> Yes!
21:56 < glezos> heh, forgot to say
21:56 < couf> > glezos :-)
21:56 < glezos> I already stepped forward and added the CSS needed for a
box, in case someone would like to start using it. We can change it,
etc. But anyway, we'll discuss this on the ML to see if we are going to
use it at all.
21:56 < glezos> eof
21:56 < vpv> ok, one point: moin multilang seems to be based on a
wikifarm, maybe too "overkill" for l10n use here
21:57 < couf> wikifarm? ouch :-/
21:58 < couf> okay, everyone agree that we should move this to the list?
21:59 < glezos> couf: yea, not much to discuss now
22:00 < couf> all right, so we're on the one-hour mark, shall we
continue?
22:01 < glezos> couf: I'd really like if we had some time for anyone who
would like to say anything
22:01 < glezos> (although that someone should have put it on the
agenda...:)
22:02 < couf> sure, and that was going to be the next item in we weren't
going to continue :-)
22:02 < glezos> fabian_a: you found a maintainer for your lang? :)
22:02 < couf> but first a little topic, that we need to get some
agreement on
22:03 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to:  Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Meeting times
22:03 < couf> maybe it's best to get a general idea right here and bring
it to the list
22:04 < couf> I recall the fact of having two different meeting hours
22:04 < runa_b> !
22:04 < couf> > runa_b 
22:05 < runa_b> couf: i was going to say the same thing :)
22:05 < runa_b> eof
22:05 < couf> cool :-)
22:06 < couf> so anyone have suggestions on hours (frequency is still a
list-item)
22:06 < noriko> +1 to couf and runa_b
22:07 < glezos> so, how about UTC15?
22:08 < fabian_a> !
22:08 < couf> glezos: good for me
22:08 < couf> > fabian_a 
22:09 < fabian_a> i prefer more the evenings...but the problem are the
different time zones
22:09 < fabian_a> eof
22:10 < couf> right, I'm thinking an hour in European-evening, which
should be doable for America and an hour that suits for APAC and could
be doable to others
22:11 < glezos> couf: maybe a wiki page with 5-10 suggestions would help
us decide.
22:12 < runa_b> +1 glezos
22:12 < runa_b> !
22:12 < couf> +1 glezos 
22:12 < couf> > runa_b 
22:12 < runa_b> imho a minimum of 3 meeting times are required so as to
have each geo get atleast one good or bad time
22:12 < fabian_a> +1 glezos
22:12 < runa_b> eof
22:13 -!- k0k [n=k0k fedora/k0k] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer)]
22:13 < glezos> 3 times is an overkill :)
22:13 < glezos> Probably we can make it with 2. Besides, we post the log
on the list, so anyone can discuss any issue brought in the meeting.
22:14 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation
terminated!"]
22:14 < glezos> Hopefully we can make it with 2. If not, we can see what
to do from there.
22:14 < glezos> anyone willing to coordinate the effort to find a proper
second time?
22:15 < runa_b> !
22:15 < couf> > runa_b 
22:15 < runa_b> can we have a page on the wiki for suitable times..i
guess there was some link pointed out last time.
22:15 < runa_b> eof
22:16 < noriko> very nice to have it
22:16 < glezos> runa_b: the link was
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes
22:16 < glezos> but that's probably too much
22:16 < couf> so question still remains, anyone want to put a foot down
and get this going?
22:16 < glezos> Here's a table with 4 important locations:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=26&month=6&year=2007&p1=16&p2=240&p3=176&p4=45
22:16 < runa_b> !
22:17 < couf> > runa_b 
22:17 < runa_b> i can volunteer for the task.
22:17 < runa_b> eof
22:18 < couf> all right cool, anyone want to help runa_b?
22:18 < glezos> runa_b: anyone who volunteers for something doesn't need
to use "!" and "eof" :)
22:18 < runa_b> heh
22:20 < couf> no one? okay thanks runa_b
22:20 < runa_b> :)
22:21 < couf> so anyone want to tell / ask / say anything about
everything concerning L10N?
22:21 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to:  Fedora
Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings --
Open floor
22:22 < couf> I've got a question: are these meetings helpfull?
22:22 < runa_b> yes very much
22:22 < Raven46> couf: +1 ;)
22:22 < noriko> +1 we see more ppl than last time :-)
22:22 < Samiby> yes, it helps to move forward within the team ... to go
faster :)
22:23 < couf> heh great :-)
22:23 < vpv> and it builds more of a community instead of everyone just
working alone
22:23 < couf> all righty, than anyone want to chair next week, b/c I'm
not gonna be around
22:24 < glezos> couf: we can decide then
22:24 < couf> okay
22:24 -!- Pingoomax [n=Maxime fedora/Pingoomax] has joined
#fedora-meeting
22:24 < couf> anything else
22:24 < noriko> !
22:24 < couf> > noriko 
22:24 < noriko> when is next ? :)
22:24 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si fedora/kital] has left #fedora-meeting
["Konversation terminated!"]
22:25 < couf> ah next week, I presume?
22:25 < noriko> do we get decision byweekly or weekly, monthly?
22:25 < noriko> biweekly
22:25 < noriko> eof
22:25 < couf> right, that's still on the list, maybe get that done by
next week?
22:25 < noriko> sure
22:26 < glezos> I've got a small surprise before closing. Mike just told
me he enabled a full list of languages in the smolt statistics page,
instead of just the first 10.
22:26 < glezos> http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats
22:26 < glezos> tab "Languages" :)
22:27 < couf> nice, Marvelous Mike does it again :-)
22:27 < vpv> great :)
22:27 < glezos> mmcgrath: thanks from l10n
22:27 < Raven46> but pl_PL still isn't here (there was a crash with
Polish trans of smolt, fixed recently)... :(
22:28 < Raven46> ops, it is, but not so many ;)
22:28 < couf> so, anything else
22:28  * couf starts countdown
22:28 < couf> 10
22:28 < couf> 9
22:28 -!- mether [i=ask fedora/mether] has quit [Remote closed the
connection]
22:28 < couf> 8
22:28 < couf> 7
22:28 < couf> 6
22:28 < couf> 5
22:28 < couf> 4
22:28 < couf> 3
22:28 < couf> 2
22:28 < couf> 1
22:28 < couf> </meeting>

-- 
Bart <couf fedoraproject org> <couf skynet be>
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D  3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93

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