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FLP Meeting 2008-06-17 IRC Log



* glezos has changed the topic to: /topic Fedora Localization Group
meeting -- Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
-- Init
<glezos> hi all
<runa_b> hello
<glezos> it's da translations time
<couf> hi
* drago01_ is now known as drago01
<glezos> <meeting>
<glezos> rollcall..
<couf> BartCouvreur (nl)
<runa_b> Runa Bhattacharjee (bn_IN)
<Raven46> Piotr Drąg (pl)
* stickster is now known as stickster_afk
<glezos> Dimitris Glezos (el)
<tombolinux> Francesco Tombolini (it)
<G> Nigel Jones (wiki)
<glezos> right on
<glezos> How is everyone?
<rsc> Robert Scheck (de)
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<MrTom> ThomasCanniot
<glezos> A small agenda for today can be found at the usual place:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
<glezos> Before going on with F10 plans, I'd like to ask if we have
any lessons learned from the F9 process
<glezos> I think it was mentioned that we still have some issues of
transltaions not being shipped
<runa_b> And the git submission bugs...they keep cropping up :(
<glezos> I'm not sure of an easy solution to this
<couf> did we have an extra rebuild of the translations before final freeze?
<glezos> couf: that's up to each maintainer.
<couf> glezos: yes, but we did want to request that, no?
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<glezos> couf: that's something we keep reminding folks, yes
<glezos> The window between translation deadline and feature freeze
was 1 day, which this time round we'll increase
<glezos> f13: Can we have at least 5 days for this ^?
<f13> glezos: drop comments https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/105 please
<glezos> f13: okey, thanks
<glezos> runa_b: Is that an issue with our toolchain?
<glezos> URL/ticket?
<runa_b> glezos: i saw a few bugs filed for a few packages...lemme dig them up
<glezos> couf: if we want to make sure rebuilds happen, we'll have to
find a way to track them. Either manually or automatically
<runa_b> glezos:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-May/msg00083.html
<glezos> couf: The automagic one sounds like a feature for bodhi (lmacken).
<glezos> Ie. show from the n packages we care about, which have (not)
received updates between two dates
<couf> glezos: F10 target?
<glezos> right
<glezos> well, let's bring it to the list and a code hacker might be
interested in tackling it
 Raven46 rdieter ricky rnorwood rsc runa_b
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<glezos> runa_b: I think we have an open ticket for it which hasn't
received much attention I'm afraid.
<runa_b> glezos: aah ok
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<glezos> okey -- last meeting's action items:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-April/msg00218.html
<glezos> The elections results should have appeared on FWN
<glezos> ankit is looking into increasing our docs language coverage
for F10 with the internally-supported languages
<glezos> anything else we should mention?
<couf> not really, lets move on
<glezos> okey
* glezos has changed the topic to: /topic Fedora Localization Group
meeting -- Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
-- Define plan of action for F10
<glezos> What should we be looking for F10?
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<couf> stabilizing our current tools
<couf> well maybe "stabilizing" isn't the correct word, but just
making them work better
<couf> we've got a plaform now, let's start to use it's full potential :)
<glezos> couf: What we know about this is that we have a few
volunteers working on it
<tombolinux> when can we see a localization for transifex? is there a
time prevision?
<couf> glezos: which is absolutly great
<glezos> tombolinux: yes, i18n support has landed on the development
branch. By the end of the next month I'd expect to have an update on
our instance.
<glezos> couf: I think an action list of what Fedora needs from Tx
would be highly valuable. There are a few bugs open, anything not
addressed there should probably have a ticket opened.
<tombolinux> glezos: thanks
<couf> glezos: yes, I agree, the fact is we need to "find" thoose needs
<glezos> couf: good idea. let's start a discussion on the list.
<couf> sure
<glezos> For those not following the transifex-devel mailing list,
Diego is working on adding a few usability enhancements, and the
maintainer of Vertimus, a workflow management layer, decided to port
it to Transifex.
<glezos> So I expect by September to have a number of major enhacements.
<glezos> Including integration of Damned Lies into Transifex
<couf> neat
<glezos> couf: would you bring this on the list?
<couf> glezos: sure
<glezos> awesome
* johnij (n=janis 77-103-220-221 cable ubr13 croy blueyonder co uk)
has joined #fedora-meeting
* glezos has changed the topic to: /topic Fedora Localization Group
meeting -- Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
-- Wiki translations (start thread on list)
<glezos> G: fire away
<tombolinux> https://launchpad.net/vertimus looks cool :)
<G> Ahh right, so we are looking at the best way to 'translate' the
wiki at the moment, moin had some special voodoo that doesn't exist in
Mediawiki to handle multiple languages on one wiki
<G> the current plan is to have one instance per language arranged in
the format /xx(_XX)/wiki/ which would be manually editable (including
translations for pagenames)
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<glezos> G: and I imagine, each page would link to the respective
translated pages that exist, like Wikipedia
<G> It'd mean quite a bit of manual work to translate the whole wiki
(and some of it doesn't need translating such as user pages)
<G> glezos: yes, interwikis are supported
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<G> I just got my test instance (bar auth) workin again, so
https://publictest10.fedoraproject.org/en/wiki
<G> there is also /fr/wiki on that server
<glezos> G: how was /pt/wiki/ selected?
<tombolinux> will the current pages automatically migrated to the new
system/format?
<G> glezos: fits in with the rest of the scheme of things /en/home
/fr/home /de/get-fedora etc
<glezos> G: ok. makes sense.
<G> tombolinux: no, thats still manual work sadly
<G> .ticket 609
<zodbot> G: #609 (Wiki i18n/l10n Setup) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
- https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/609
<glezos> G: good work.
<glezos> G: if you'd like some feedback from the teams, drop an email
to -trans-list
<G> thats the ticket I'm using to track the progress of everything
<couf> another idea that involves this, is something that came up in a
Docs meeting recently
<G> glezos: shall do (router is bricked at the moment but once I get a
new one and it's all ready, they I will)
<couf> *if* possible: have mediawiki export the most import pages as
pot file, add it into transifex and on commit it pushes to the
tranlsated wiki
<G> couf: ahh yes, I havn't looked into that yet
<couf> G: I'd consider that to be secondary, if we have working wikis,
we'll be pretty content  :)
<G> As an outsider to the l10n process etc, I see two problems (minor)
<G> a) Would POT-based translation allow translated page titles (a
nice feature that Mediawiki has that doesn't break interwikis) b) Lack
of 'preview' for editors
<G> But it is something that could (and should) be looked into
<glezos> I think that unless we can truly provide a robust workflow
with mediawiki, any automated process (like POT files) will have
problems.
<glezos> We should definitely look into it, and I'd be interested in
doing so as well
<G> Anyway, unless you guys have any questions that's all from me
<johnij> when I translate always need a preview or some proofreading
<glezos> So to drop my POV here: A good solution for wiki translations
would be for the page author to choose if he'd like the page to be
translated from a POT file or in-place
<glezos> The POT pages are easier to keep up-to-date (a change in the
page fuzzifies the PO files, hence draws the attention of the
translator)
<tombolinux> G: the wiki language shoul be selected by the browser, by
a button like in opensuse or is there another method?
<glezos> the in-place solution is easier and gives flexibility of
altering the content (add paragraphs, etc) but might lose sync
<G> tombolinux: right sidebar
<glezos> I think the in-place solution, for now, even if it needs
manual moving of pages, is sufficient.
<couf> well the POT pages would be the more formalized pages imo
<G> glezos: spot on, the counteraction for the latter would if we can
setup a 'all wiki pages to foo-list@' configuration
<glezos> couf: right
<G> couf: yeah, and we might be able to get over the hurdle of 'true
translations (i.e. page titles as well)' that way
<couf> G: right
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* glezos wonders if we need such support quickly and whether
sponsoring it might make sense
<G> glezos: thats something that I can't really comment on, I'm
monolingual and to be honest I have no clue on what works best for you
guys
<glezos> G: right, this is sth the Community Architecture team or the
RH translation teams could comment on.
<glezos> anyway
<glezos> We covered point 4 of the agenda before
* glezos has changed the topic to: /topic Fedora Localization Group
meeting -- Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
-- Open floor
<glezos> Any other business?
<Raven46> !
<couf> G: thanks
<Raven46> should I push recent changes in dl LIVE (mostly F9 ->
rawhide change, clean-up, and some new modules added)?
<G> couf: no problem, have a good day all, breakfast time now :)
<glezos> G: keep up the good work.
<johnij> nearly to get in bed :)))
<glezos> Raven46: would you like me to test the changes first?
<Raven46> glezos: yep
<glezos> Raven46: on it.
<glezos> any other topic?
<Raven46> I don't have much free time this month, unfortunately :(
<Raven46> glezos: thanks
<glezos> Raven46: for a volunteer, you've done a stellar job
maintaining our DL branches
<glezos> thank you
<couf> Raven46: i agree with glezos, your work is enourmous
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<Raven46> no problem, that's fun for me :)
<glezos> Raven46: I hope we can get someone to help you out in
maintaining our l10n, as part of his dayjob.
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<glezos> right on
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<Raven46> glezos: would be awesome
<glezos> Unless there's anything else, closing the party in 30
<couf> close away
<glezos> </meeting>
<glezos> thanks all
<couf> next meeting, in two weeks?
<glezos> couf: sounds like a plan. 14:00 UTC?
<glezos> oops
<glezos> 11 UTC
<glezos> couf: do you have some free time for the meeting minutes?
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<couf> glezos: well not directly, will be tomorrow evening, but will do'em
<glezos> couf: thanks
* glezos will be on the road mostly tomorrow
<glezos> off to #fedora-l10n
* glezos has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora
groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings
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