From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 1 04:31:52 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:31:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: Improving the get-fedora page In-Reply-To: <1201311562.19482.499.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200852139.5183.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4795A431.2030002@fedoraproject.org> <20080122105201.6249de4e@j2solutions.net> <1201311562.19482.499.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 09:45 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > Perhaps we need two pages. We'll drop people to the initial page > > they'd > > typically see (i386, ppc, whatever) basically what it is now. Then we > > make a nice ? icon or help icon and stick it all over that page, when > > people click on it they go to more of a "download wizard". > > > > This gives us two benefits. 1) we keep a simple page for people and > > 2) we > > get to see how many people end up using the wizard. If we find that > > the > > click through is only 1% that at least tells us something, on the > > other > > hand if we find out its 50% we know we need to account for these > > people > > all over our site, not just download. > > We can ask our UI experts how best to do the ? mark, but overall +1 to > this approach. Yet ... > > There are three good ways from here: > > * Leave page as-is, then ? => link to wizard > * Make page a wizard, with a link off to "I know what I want" > * Two-boxes in the middle: "Help me figure out what I need" ... "I know > what I want" that link out to appropriate pages > > "User Interaction Expert, where are you?!?" > > - Karsten I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here but is there any way for javascript/java/OSS language to grab this information? Perhaps we should focus on a "What is recommended for this machine?" type button. -Mike From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 04:39:42 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:39:42 -0500 Subject: Improving the get-fedora page In-Reply-To: References: <1200852139.5183.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4795A431.2030002@fedoraproject.org> <20080122105201.6249de4e@j2solutions.net> <1201311562.19482.499.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1201840782.1418.4.camel@ignacio.lan> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 22:31 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > We can ask our UI experts how best to do the ? mark, but overall +1 to > > this approach. Yet ... > > > > There are three good ways from here: > > > > * Leave page as-is, then ? => link to wizard > > * Make page a wizard, with a link off to "I know what I want" > > * Two-boxes in the middle: "Help me figure out what I need" ... "I know > > what I want" that link out to appropriate pages > > > > "User Interaction Expert, where are you?!?" > > I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here but is there any way for > javascript/java/OSS language to grab this information? Perhaps we should > focus on a "What is recommended for this machine?" type button. We could parse the User-agent header. It's easily-enough faked though. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Feb 2 10:43:15 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:43:15 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Creating live USB keys in Windows In-Reply-To: <20080202102740.GA20025@crow> References: <20080202102740.GA20025@crow> Message-ID: <6d4237680802020243x66146f3bl66083f985497ee75@mail.gmail.com> Forwarding a msg from lmacken on fedora-devel-list. Luke has created a tool to get an ISO on a Fedora Live usb stick... on Windows. It makes it dead simple for Windows users to try (and switch to) Fedora this way, since everybody nowadays has a RS USB stick, not everybody have CD writers (X61 Thinkpads don't), or is willing to find/spend an empty CD. Good stuff. We should see how the msg could reach the world, non-Linux users. Debian has created something "similar" at http://goodbye-microsoft.com/, which is probably even simpler. Not sure what other distros have done. How about creating http://switch.fedoraproject.org/, which will have some simple instructions on how to get the tool, get the ISO, run it and reboot? Having the page localized as well, will probably make the message reach to a big crowd. Maybe it's too early for this, since everything is in flux, so let's think about it. -d ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Luke Macken Date: 2008/2/2 Subject: Creating live USB keys in Windows To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com Hi! So, I wrote some code that will install a Fedora Live ISO onto a USB stick, in Windows. It automatically detects all removable drives, finds your ISO, extracts it to your USB key, tweaks the syslinux.cfg, and installs the bootloader. >From a user perspective, using it is pretty simple: - download fedora - download and extract livecd-iso-to-usb.zip - drag fedora iso into directory - double click 'livecd-iso-to-usb.exe' - ...profit! It has worked great during all of my testing, and Jesse seemed to have good luck with it today, but we definitely need more people to try it out before we can start recommending it to users. Documentation: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LukeMacken/WindowsLiveUSB In action: http://lmacken.fedorapeople.org/livecd-iso-to-usb.png The binary: http://lmacken.fedorapeople.org/livecd-iso-to-usb.zip The code: git clone http://lmacken.fedorapeople.org/livecd-iso-to-usb.git Comments/suggestions/patches/flames ? Thanks! luke -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kekatos at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 16:23:19 2008 From: kekatos at gmail.com (Yanis Kekatos) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 18:23:19 +0200 Subject: Get Fedora Page Message-ID: Dear Fedora Project Webmaster, please make the Get Fedora webpage [ http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora ] more helpful for simple users. Provide a description for each of the architectures that you support. "i386" tells nothing to a simple/new computer user. Thanks in advance, Yanis Kekatos From bicycle.nutz at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 19:25:04 2008 From: bicycle.nutz at gmail.com (Craig Thomas) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 14:25:04 -0500 Subject: Get Fedora Page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2008 11:23 AM, Yanis Kekatos wrote: > Dear Fedora Project Webmaster, > please make the Get Fedora webpage [ > http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora ] more helpful for simple users. > Provide a description for each of the architectures that you support. > "i386" tells nothing to a simple/new computer user. > > Thanks in advance, > Yanis Kekatos Hello Yanis, This is currently being worked on, with a target for the Fedora 9 launch. You are not the first to suggest a change to this page. As nothing is concrete yet, if you have any ideas on how we could improve 'get-fedora', please feel free to share them: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/ShowUs Thanks and cheers, -- Craig From juankprada at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 21:44:13 2008 From: juankprada at gmail.com (Juan Camilo Prada) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:44:13 -0500 Subject: Introducing myself Message-ID: <1201988653.3375.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello everybody! My name is Juan Camilo Prada, and i wanted to say hi to everybody in this mailing list, and tell you all that i'm here willing to help! as a start i made this post -> http://juankprada.livejournal.com/4057.html talking about what i could see about the current websites related to fedora project. Jeff Spaleta commented on it and encouraged me to join and help with the websites SIG, so here i am, am already a fedora ambassador, and i do pretty good in web development. My skills are: PHP/Zend Framework, (X)HTML, CSS, MySQL and some design skills to. From zaitcev at redhat.com Sun Feb 3 19:48:38 2008 From: zaitcev at redhat.com (Pete Zaitcev) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:48:38 -0800 Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields Message-ID: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> Hello: The animated gif at start.fedoraproject.org says "Meet Paul FRIELDS". But Paul's last name is "Fields", as far as I know. This typo is copied from Red Hat Magzine. -- Pete From eric at epkphoto.com Sun Feb 3 20:17:39 2008 From: eric at epkphoto.com (Eric Kerby) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:17:39 -0500 Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields In-Reply-To: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <872318EF-2CF1-4593-A47E-5EDACC7256AA@epkphoto.com> I believe that the correct spelling is, in fact, Frields: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields -Eric Kerby On Feb 3, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > Hello: > > The animated gif at start.fedoraproject.org says "Meet Paul FRIELDS". > But Paul's last name is "Fields", as far as I know. This typo is > copied from Red Hat Magzine. > > -- Pete > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Feb 3 21:03:49 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:03:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields In-Reply-To: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: His last name, is infact, Frields. The "r" stands for "Rocks!" :) -Mike On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > Hello: > > The animated gif at start.fedoraproject.org says "Meet Paul FRIELDS". > But Paul's last name is "Fields", as far as I know. This typo is > copied from Red Hat Magzine. > > -- Pete > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > From zaitcev at redhat.com Mon Feb 4 01:04:55 2008 From: zaitcev at redhat.com (Pete Zaitcev) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 17:04:55 -0800 Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields In-Reply-To: References: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20080203170455.1ae420b6.zaitcev@redhat.com> On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:03:49 -0600 (CST), Mike McGrath wrote: > His last name, is infact, Frields. The "r" stands for "Rocks!" :) Funnily enough, his own blog used to have "Fields" (it's changed now). -- Pete From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 4 17:50:30 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:50:30 -0800 Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields In-Reply-To: <20080203170455.1ae420b6.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20080203170455.1ae420b6.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1202147430.10079.17.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 17:04 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:03:49 -0600 (CST), Mike McGrath wrote: > > > His last name, is infact, Frields. The "r" stands for "Rocks!" :) > > Funnily enough, his own blog used to have "Fields" (it's changed now). That would be pretty ironic. He's good at catching typos and regularly corrects the misspelling of his name. OTOH, I've certainly mis-signed my email before, - Krasten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 4 22:18:02 2008 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 14:18:02 -0800 Subject: Paul Frields vs. Paul Fields In-Reply-To: <1202147430.10079.17.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <20080203114838.78042f0b.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20080203170455.1ae420b6.zaitcev@redhat.com> <1202147430.10079.17.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <369bce3b0802041418q205b6733n664cd65995ef616d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/2/4 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > ... > OTOH, I've certainly mis-signed my email before, > > - Krasten <-----!!! Gotcha! :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Feb 5 00:25:39 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 19:25:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: request for simple change to fedoraproject.org Message-ID: attached is a proposed change to the "Tools" section of the left-hand sidebar on the front page of fedoraproject.org It simply adds one more item to the list -- an "Events" link. Thanks, Max -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: new-html.txt URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 5 21:50:12 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:50:12 -0800 Subject: Improving the get-fedora page In-Reply-To: <1201840782.1418.4.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1200852139.5183.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4795A431.2030002@fedoraproject.org> <20080122105201.6249de4e@j2solutions.net> <1201311562.19482.499.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201840782.1418.4.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1202248212.23430.49.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 23:39 -0500, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 22:31 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > We can ask our UI experts how best to do the ? mark, but overall +1 to > > > this approach. Yet ... > > > > > > There are three good ways from here: > > > > > > * Leave page as-is, then ? => link to wizard > > > * Make page a wizard, with a link off to "I know what I want" > > > * Two-boxes in the middle: "Help me figure out what I need" ... "I know > > > what I want" that link out to appropriate pages > > > > > > "User Interaction Expert, where are you?!?" > > > > I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here but is there any way for > > javascript/java/OSS language to grab this information? Perhaps we should > > focus on a "What is recommended for this machine?" type button. > > We could parse the User-agent header. It's easily-enough faked though. Nor is it necessarily the target install system. We could use it to make a suggestion, though. "Looks like your system is an i686 ..." -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lianocd at yahoo.com.cn Tue Feb 5 15:33:33 2008 From: lianocd at yahoo.com.cn (LI QINGWEI) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 23:33:33 +0800 (CST) Subject: how to get fedora 5 Message-ID: <456606.95419.qm@web15602.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Dear Fedora experts, I need fedora 5. But in the website "fedoraproject.org", I could not find it. Could you tell me what I should do? Thanks a lot and look forward to your letter! Yours sincerely, Qingwei Li --------------------------------- ??????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lianocd at yahoo.com.cn Tue Feb 5 15:33:33 2008 From: lianocd at yahoo.com.cn (LI QINGWEI) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 23:33:33 +0800 (CST) Subject: how to get fedora 5 Message-ID: <456606.95419.qm@web15602.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Dear Fedora experts, I need fedora 5. But in the website "fedoraproject.org", I could not find it. Could you tell me what I should do? Thanks a lot and look forward to your letter! Yours sincerely, Qingwei Li --------------------------------- ??????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Feb 5 23:37:53 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:37:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: Improving the get-fedora page In-Reply-To: <1202248212.23430.49.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200852139.5183.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4795A431.2030002@fedoraproject.org> <20080122105201.6249de4e@j2solutions.net> <1201311562.19482.499.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201840782.1418.4.camel@ignacio.lan> <1202248212.23430.49.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 23:39 -0500, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 22:31 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > > We can ask our UI experts how best to do the ? mark, but overall +1 to > > > > this approach. Yet ... > > > > > > > > There are three good ways from here: > > > > > > > > * Leave page as-is, then ? => link to wizard > > > > * Make page a wizard, with a link off to "I know what I want" > > > > * Two-boxes in the middle: "Help me figure out what I need" ... "I know > > > > what I want" that link out to appropriate pages > > > > > > > > "User Interaction Expert, where are you?!?" > > > > > > I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here but is there any way for > > > javascript/java/OSS language to grab this information? Perhaps we should > > > focus on a "What is recommended for this machine?" type button. > > > > We could parse the User-agent header. It's easily-enough faked though. > > Nor is it necessarily the target install system. We could use it to > make a suggestion, though. "Looks like your system is an i686 ..." > This may not always be true in the future but I'd think "If you're not sure what to download, get i686" -Mie From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Feb 5 23:36:55 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:36:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: Strange changes to the wiki Message-ID: We've made some more changes to our wiki in an effort to gain some scaling. The basic premise is this. 1) standard load balance between multiple app servers 2) unless you're saving, then just use app1. This gains us some more HA and it helps spread the load a bit. Today (the alpha release) saw some higher than normal load, we did make it to /. In addition to this, something very strange happened with app1 last night, we believe its an issue in the kernel but its working as expected right now so we're going to leave it and see if it stays normal, then try to recreate the issue and file a bug if need be. Toshio and I have been keeping an eye on things. Please let one of us know if you notice something that isn't working right. -Mike From tchung at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 6 00:06:35 2008 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0800 Subject: how to get fedora 5 In-Reply-To: <456606.95419.qm@web15602.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> References: <456606.95419.qm@web15602.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0802051606x747c7a1ek8906eefd0e11c984@mail.gmail.com> On 2/5/08, LI QINGWEI wrote: > Dear Fedora experts, > > I need fedora 5. But in the website "fedoraproject.org", I could not find > it. Could you tell me what I should do? > > Thanks a lot and look forward to your letter! > > Yours sincerely, > Qingwei Li Hello, You should be able to download FC5 iso images from "core" directory in most mirrors[1]. However, Fedora Project no longer release any updates for FC5 since it has reached its EOL (End of Lifecycle)[2]. [1] http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LifeCycle/EOL Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From edwintan at creativedesigner.biz Wed Feb 6 00:33:21 2008 From: edwintan at creativedesigner.biz (Edwin Tan) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:33:21 +0800 Subject: how to get fedora 5 Message-ID: <9b2562a91c5e4b4b8f1987aa7a63994d@aggron.mschosting.com> hi all, isn't fedora 8 better? compatibilities improvements and also interface improvements. why go back to fedora 5? regards, Edwin Tan, Technical Support @ CreativeDesigner.biz ---------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Chung" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:07 AM To: "LI QINGWEI" Subject: Re: how to get fedora 5 On 2/5/08, LI QINGWEI wrote: > Dear Fedora experts, > > I need fedora 5. But in the website "fedoraproject.org", I could not find > it. Could you tell me what I should do? > > Thanks a lot and look forward to your letter! > > Yours sincerely, > Qingwei Li Hello, You should be able to download FC5 iso images from "core" directory in most mirrors[1]. However, Fedora Project no longer release any updates for FC5 since it has reached its EOL (End of Lifecycle)[2]. [1] http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LifeCycle/EOL Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung -- Fedora-websites-list mailing list Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 6 03:52:30 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:52:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora Banners Archive Message-ID: <47A92EFE.5050202@fedoraproject.org> I decided to put together a little spot in the wiki where we can collect all of the banners (and their sources) that we have made for www.fedoraproject.org in case they end up being useful for something else or maybe if their sources could be reused. The page is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/PromoBanners I know I am missing some, the fudcon one comes to mind (I think I do have the source for that somewhere)... if you can think of any I have missed please feel free to add them here. :) Thanks, ~m From lost_ammar at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 08:12:12 2008 From: lost_ammar at yahoo.com (lost Ammar) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 00:12:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: need information Message-ID: <620741.83378.qm@web44913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> hi ther, can i get any small fedora core 3 application research --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwintan at creativedesigner.biz Wed Feb 6 14:04:21 2008 From: edwintan at creativedesigner.biz (Edwin Tan) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 22:04:21 +0800 Subject: how to get fedora 5 Message-ID: <326405c6010e4fc398fc5d1aea2ac96f@aggron.mschosting.com> http://opensource.nchc.org.tw/fedora/linux/core/5/i386/iso/ ???? does this help??? regards, Edwin Tan, Technical Support @ CreativeDesigner.biz ---------------------------------------- From: LI QINGWEI Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:31 AM To: edwintan at creativedesigner.biz Subject: re: Re: how to get fedora 5 Thank you very much. It is very kind of you. AFNI(analysis of functional neuroimaging ), one of softwares analyzing data of functional magnetic resonance imaging) , used to meet some problems in higher version of Fedora. Before, I have used AFNI in Fedora 5, so I want to get it. Thanks again. Best Regards! Especially now the Chinese new year is coming! Yours sincerely, Qingwei Li Edwin Tan ??: hi all, isn't fedora 8 better? compatibilities improvements and also interface improvements. why go back to fedora 5? regards, Edwin Tan, Technical Support @ CreativeDesigner.biz ---------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Chung" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:07 AM To: "LI QINGWEI" Subject: Re: how to get fedora 5 On 2/5/08, LI QINGWEI wrote: > Dear Fedora experts, > > I need fedora 5. But in the website "fedoraproject.org", I could not find > it. Could you tell me what I should do? > > Thanks a lot and look forward to your letter! > > Yours sincerely, > Qingwei Li Hello, You should be able to download FC5 iso images from "core" directory in most mirrors[1]. However, Fedora Project no longer release any updates for FC5 since it has reached its EOL (End of Lifecycle)[2]. [1] http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LifeCycle/EOL Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung -- Fedora-websites-list mailing list Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list ---------------------------------------- ??????????,???????! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwintan at creativedesigner.biz Wed Feb 6 15:37:45 2008 From: edwintan at creativedesigner.biz (Edwin Tan) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 23:37:45 +0800 Subject: hi..... Message-ID: hi all, Good day. Anybody can advise me? I need to know whether the dell servers works with fedora 8 or 9? as web server that is? below is the one? someone been asking me about this... Dell(TM) PowerEdge(TM) R200 Rack-Mount Server thanks regards, Edwin Tan, Technical Support @ CreativeDesigner.biz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 6 15:57:07 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:27:07 +0530 Subject: hi..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A9D8D3.9080006@fedoraproject.org> Edwin Tan wrote: > hi all, > Good day. Anybody can advise me? I need to know whether the dell servers > works with fedora 8 or 9? as web server that is? > below is the one? someone been asking me about this... > > *Dell(TM) PowerEdge(TM) R200 Rack-Mount Server * > You should ask in fedora-list or http://fedoraforum.org. Refer http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate. The webmaster id is only for feedback on the Fedora Project website. Rahul From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 8 01:23:10 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:23:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: Moin 1.6 Upgrade Message-ID: We've successfully gotten a Moin 1.6 install up and migrated. Time for us to sit down, take a look and let us know what's up. Here's the ticket. There's likely to be lots of non-blocking bugs during this upgrade. We'll have to find how different things are. http://publictest10.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ <-- Wiki https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/337 <-- ticket Please place all notes, comments, questions, etc in the ticket. -Mike From jsinclair at tracmor.com Fri Feb 8 00:48:49 2008 From: jsinclair at tracmor.com (Justin Sinclair) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:48:49 -0800 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage Message-ID: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello, We are a small company developing an open source (GPL'd) inventory tracking system called Tracmor (http://code.google.com/p/tracmor). We are just now preparing to build a public website for our project (both commercial and community targeted) and we like the simple clean layout of the fedoraproject.org website. We would like to request permission to use the html/css layout from fedoraproject.com home page as a starting point for our site. We would not reuse any of the images or content or even color schemes from the fedora website, but only the page layout. If this is something you would be willing to permit, please let me know. Thank you in advance for your consideration. Justin Sinclair Tracmor, LLC p.s. I've been a Fedora user since the project began. Thanks for a great distro! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 8 18:10:46 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:10:46 -0500 Subject: separate fpo domain? (was Re: making the website better) In-Reply-To: References: <1202277188.6078.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47A95B82.1090508@fedoraproject.org> <1202282545.17124.5.camel@ignacio.lan> <47A999A5.9020307@yahoo.com.br> <47A9AD7A.2090501@tondo.it> <47AC8135.3040405@fedoraproject.org> <47AC8986.80207@tondo.it> <47AC8C46.4010203@fedoraproject.org> <10e0a9b00802080925jdd735dew302f9604ac3f846d@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910802080942t4ae31fb5sf32339fb06b0aa9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47AC9B26.1020901@fedoraproject.org> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > >> I'm not afraid of dividing traffic, I'm afraid of shallow traffic... >> people who hit an entry point and lose interest quickly because the >> page has the wrong information and get bored... or too much >> information and they get lost. > > So all this "website" talk seems to run around in circles, as it > frequently does. Not a criticism so much as an observation; it's a > difficult problem. But it's a problem we've been discussing for quite a > while. > > Who wants to own the problem? Looks like Mo. But it's a lot of work, > and I don't know if she has the bandwidth. The number #1 thing on my free time plate right now is the F9 artwork but I can make this #2 if I can get some help. Let's do it! Who wants to help Mo? Who > wants to make decisions and act on them? Maybe it's time for Ricky to > step up and run this project. :) ric-KY ric-KY ric-KY!!!!!!!1 > > Might also make sense to cross-post to websites-list. Gah! No wonder it wasn't in the websites-list archives... It was cc'ed at one point I thought. Adding it!! ~m From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Feb 8 19:30:30 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:30:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: adblock and our promo ads Message-ID: resending since it didn't get through the first time... if the original message is stuck in moderation, feel free to discard it. ----- Hi there websites list: The Adblock Plus extension for Firefox, with the "EasyList (USA)" subscription is blocking the promos that we run on fedoraproject.org and start.fedoraproject.org The following filter is the one that is being triggered, on both start.fp.o and fp.o /banners/*.gif$~background Perhaps we should consider tweaking the path of those promos so that Adblock doesn't hit them. They aren't ads, after all. They are legitimate links to Fedora-related news and downloads. --Max From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 8 21:36:43 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:36:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: mod_security Message-ID: We've got a mod_security deployment going on, from the start we're only going to be targeting specific paths. Please keep your eyes out for anything strange. First up, is the wiki. -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 8 23:20:52 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:20:52 -0800 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> Do we explicitly open source license our CSS files? If not, shouldn't we? On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 16:48 -0800, Justin Sinclair wrote: > Hello, > > We are a small company developing an open source (GPL'd) inventory > tracking system called Tracmor (http://code.google.com/p/tracmor). We > are just now preparing to build a public website for our project (both > commercial and community targeted) and we like the simple clean layout > of the fedoraproject.org website. We would like to request permission > to use the html/css layout from fedoraproject.com home page as a > starting point for our site. We would not reuse any of the images or > content or even color schemes from the fedora website, but only the > page layout. If this is something you would be willing to permit, > please let me know. Thank you in advance for your consideration. > > Justin Sinclair > Tracmor, LLC > > p.s. I've been a Fedora user since the project began. Thanks for a > great distro! -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at fedoraproject.org Sat Feb 9 00:39:52 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:39:52 -0500 Subject: making the website better In-Reply-To: <1202491282.2766.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1202277188.6078.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47A95B82.1090508@fedoraproject.org> <47AC822F.7090708@fedoraproject.org> <1202491282.2766.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47ACF658.7060008@fedoraproject.org> Hey Juan, Juan Camilo Prada wrote: > BTW, M?ir?n, i'd like to know if i might have access to the designs you > made for the Spins website. I want to work a bit about making the spins > more noticeable. Also I'm already working on fp.org by adding a news > section with the Fedora weekly news RSS. > So I saw your RSS stuff - awesome work! Here are the spins mocks with SVG source: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Spins ~m From juankprada at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 01:14:49 2008 From: juankprada at gmail.com (Juan Camilo Prada) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:14:49 -0500 Subject: making the website better In-Reply-To: <47ACF658.7060008@fedoraproject.org> References: <1202277188.6078.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47A95B82.1090508@fedoraproject.org> <47AC822F.7090708@fedoraproject.org> <1202491282.2766.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47ACF658.7060008@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1202519689.2892.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 19:39 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey Juan, > > Juan Camilo Prada wrote: > > BTW, M?ir?n, i'd like to know if i might have access to the designs you > > made for the Spins website. I want to work a bit about making the spins > > more noticeable. Also I'm already working on fp.org by adding a news > > section with the Fedora weekly news RSS. > > > So I saw your RSS stuff - awesome work! > > Here are the spins mocks with SVG source: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Spins > > ~m > Great! This is the first time i see the mockups in a good resolution and i have to say, you rule M?ir?n!! those are simply awesome!! I love them and im gonna work on them this weekend Thanks for publishing them again!! From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sat Feb 9 01:22:18 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:22:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Do we explicitly open source license our CSS files? > > If not, shouldn't we? > AFAIK yes though it'd be good to make sure we're better about labeling our licenses. I'd assume the cla allows us to re-license (or first time license) everything at http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-web.git/ -Mike From duffy at fedoraproject.org Sat Feb 9 03:21:52 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:21:52 -0500 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <47AD1C50.1000307@fedoraproject.org> Mike McGrath wrote: > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > >> Do we explicitly open source license our CSS files? >> >> If not, shouldn't we? >> > > AFAIK yes though it'd be good to make sure we're better about labeling our > licenses. I'd assume the cla allows us to re-license (or first time > license) everything at http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-web.git/ You can license any design or graphics I've done for Fedora any way you want or need. I would have no problem with Justin using any bits that I designed. The one thing I might ask (optional) is that he link back to fpo. ~m From juankprada at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 04:23:44 2008 From: juankprada at gmail.com (Juan Camilo Prada) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:23:44 -0500 Subject: making the website better In-Reply-To: <47ACF658.7060008@fedoraproject.org> References: <1202277188.6078.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47A95B82.1090508@fedoraproject.org> <47AC822F.7090708@fedoraproject.org> <1202491282.2766.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47ACF658.7060008@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1202531024.6132.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 19:39 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > So I saw your RSS stuff - awesome work! > > Here are the spins mocks with SVG source: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Spins > > ~m > I played with the mocks a little bit and i got something to show, the post is already in the planet, but i though it would be better to let people in the ml know about this. The following is the link to a mock up for the fp.org website. As i said in my blog (although its a bit obvious :) ), its based on M?ir?n's mocks http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2357/2251189805_ae158b7fd0_o.png From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 9 07:37:43 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:37:43 -0800 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <47AD1C50.1000307@fedoraproject.org> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> <47AD1C50.1000307@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1202542663.7709.64.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 22:21 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > >> Do we explicitly open source license our CSS files? > >> > >> If not, shouldn't we? > >> > > > > AFAIK yes though it'd be good to make sure we're better about labeling our > > licenses. I'd assume the cla allows us to re-license (or first time > > license) everything at http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-web.git/ > > You can license any design or graphics I've done for Fedora any way you > want or need. > > I would have no problem with Justin using any bits that I designed. The > one thing I might ask (optional) is that he link back to fpo. We could use the CC BY-SA. CSS seems to fall in that category, no warranty assurance required, etc., and it clearly requires some attribution in the reusage. Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Feb 9 18:09:23 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:39:23 +0530 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <1202542663.7709.64.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> <47AD1C50.1000307@fedoraproject.org> <1202542663.7709.64.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <47ADEC53.6080004@fedoraproject.org> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > We could use the CC BY-SA. CSS seems to fall in that category, no > warranty assurance required, etc., and it clearly requires some > attribution in the reusage. That sounds like a very good idea. Rahul From franz at 688i.com Fri Feb 8 18:35:16 2008 From: franz at 688i.com (Franz Robert) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:35:16 +0100 Subject: Fedora-websites-list Digest, Vol 28, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <20080208170025.075C07371E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20080208170025.075C07371E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1202495716.4349.10.camel@root.688i.com> Hi, I'm new in this NewsLetter and hope to join Website group. I'm just waiting for a sponsor. You can see my profile in FranzRobert Wiki page. The post method in the Wiki at user level seems not to work properly at this time. I could edit and update an Ambassadors page, but not my Wiki personnal one. Edit OK, but Post denied / 501. Is this trouble coming from the upgrade? I will have a look at the ticket. Thanks to all of you for the job on the website. Hope to be soon of some help. Franz Robert > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:23:10 -0600 (CST) > From: Mike McGrath > Subject: Moin 1.6 Upgrade > To: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > We've successfully gotten a Moin 1.6 install up and migrated. Time for us > to sit down, take a look and let us know what's up. Here's the ticket. > There's likely to be lots of non-blocking bugs during this upgrade. We'll > have to find how different things are. > > http://publictest10.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ <-- Wiki > > https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/337 <-- ticket > > Please place all notes, comments, questions, etc in the ticket. > > -Mike > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Feb 10 00:50:43 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:50:43 -0800 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <47ADEC53.6080004@fedoraproject.org> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1202512852.4538.69.camel@calliope.phig.org> <47AD1C50.1000307@fedoraproject.org> <1202542663.7709.64.camel@calliope.phig.org> <47ADEC53.6080004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1202604643.7709.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-02-09 at 23:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > We could use the CC BY-SA. CSS seems to fall in that category, no > > warranty assurance required, etc., and it clearly requires some > > attribution in the reusage. > > That sounds like a very good idea. I seem to have deleted the original question in this thread. Anyone have it to reply back? We can tell him it's OK to use the CSS, that we intend to make that clear by stating the license on the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites page as well as within future versions of the CSS, and be sure to do as he says, that is, not infringe upon any Fedora marks. Or should we have a discussion on f-websites-l first? I'm unclear if this email actually goes to that list. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 10 01:12:59 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:42:59 +0530 Subject: fedoraproject.org website design usage In-Reply-To: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1202431729.2987.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47AE4F9B.9090206@fedoraproject.org> Justin Sinclair wrote: > Hello, > > We are a small company developing an open source (GPL'd) inventory > tracking system called Tracmor (http://code.google.com/p/tracmor). We > are just now preparing to build a public website for our project (both > commercial and community targeted) and we like the simple clean layout > of the fedoraproject.org website. We would like to request permission > to use the html/css layout from fedoraproject.com home page as a > starting point for our site. We would not reuse any of the images or > content or even color schemes from the fedora website, but only the > page layout. If this is something you would be willing to permit, > please let me know. Thank you in advance for your consideration. You are allowed to use the CSS in our website under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license. Essentially use it freely but give us credit and we appreciate linking back to our website. We will clarify the licensing details in our website soon. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites Note that using the Fedora marks is only allowed under our trademark guidelines so I would suggest that you avoid using them in any way. Since you are a Fedora user, it would be great to have your software maintained in our repository too http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join Also we offer hosting for Free and open source projects at http://fedorahosted.org. Completely free and we support several distributed source code management systems like Git, Mercurial and Bzr. Just something for you to consider. Rahul From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Feb 11 01:39:03 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:39:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora-websites-list Digest, Vol 28, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <1202495716.4349.10.camel@root.688i.com> References: <20080208170025.075C07371E@hormel.redhat.com> <1202495716.4349.10.camel@root.688i.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Franz Robert wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new in this NewsLetter and hope to join Website group. I'm just > waiting for a sponsor. > You can see my profile in FranzRobert Wiki page. > > The post method in the Wiki at user level seems not to work properly at > this time. I could edit and update an Ambassadors page, but not my Wiki > personnal one. Edit OK, but Post denied / 501. > Is this trouble coming from the upgrade? > > I will have a look at the ticket. > > Thanks to all of you for the job on the website. Hope to be soon of some > help. We haven't actually upgraded anything but the issue you describe perfectly matches some of the very initial deployments of mod_security we've been doing. If you get a moment could you stop by #fedora-admin so I might help you diagnose it? If not please send me an email and let me know what page your saving to, what browser / OS you're using and an exact copy of the content you're trying to save. -Mike From zicronsoft at yahoo.com Sun Feb 10 21:40:21 2008 From: zicronsoft at yahoo.com (Peter Schmidt) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:40:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Just a suggestion Message-ID: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi I'm a new user to Linux and I've never been able to use Fedora but I'd really like to. Every time I attempt to download, it takes a half day at least to finish. When it does, theres some error on the iso every single time or the download somehow messes up on the way. I don't feel the need to order a DVD so instead I thought I would suggest making a mirror where there are maybe about 30 total .rar files. This way people with slower internet can actually download the OS and people like me won't have to worry about a few MB causing the whole DVD to malfunction. I personally wouldn't bother to do this with 8, once 9 is released, then I would like to see segments. Also I hope to not be repetative but what are some major features 9 will have that 8 doesn't? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From pemboa at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 02:41:27 2008 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:41:27 -0600 Subject: Just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0802101841w6fb488ddm52c0f25290a96e72@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 10, 2008 3:40 PM, Peter Schmidt wrote: > Hi I'm a new user to Linux and I've never been able to > use Fedora but I'd really like to. Every time I > attempt to download, it takes a half day at least to > finish. When it does, theres some error on the iso > every single time or the download somehow messes up on > the way. I don't feel the need to order a DVD so > instead I thought I would suggest making a mirror > where there are maybe about 30 total .rar files. This > way people with slower internet can actually download > the OS and people like me won't have to worry about a > few MB causing the whole DVD to malfunction. I > personally wouldn't bother to do this with 8, once 9 > is released, then I would like to see segments. > > Also I hope to not be repetative but what are some > major features 9 will have that 8 doesn't? I'd be willing to host this.... what are the tools required to create these multi-file rars? -- Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine ( www.pembo13.com ) From jonathansteffan at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 03:12:03 2008 From: jonathansteffan at gmail.com (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:12:03 -0700 Subject: Just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47AFBD03.7030307@gmail.com> Peter Schmidt wrote: > Hi I'm a new user to Linux and I've never been able to > use Fedora but I'd really like to. Every time I > attempt to download, it takes a half day at least to > finish. When it does, theres some error on the iso > every single time or the download somehow messes up on > the way. I don't feel the need to order a DVD so > instead I thought I would suggest making a mirror > where there are maybe about 30 total .rar files. This > way people with slower internet can actually download > the OS and people like me won't have to worry about a > few MB causing the whole DVD to malfunction. I > personally wouldn't bother to do this with 8, once 9 > is released, then I would like to see segments. Jigdo[a] is a more graceful solution to this issue. Rather then having yet another arbitrary chunk format[1] to get the DVD image(s) either use the existing[2] ones (read: torrent[b]) or try Jigdo. With Jigdo, every file downloaded is checksummed so the most amount of data that will have to be re-downloaded is the largest file in the Jigdo definition. It also allows you to use already downloaded data or a local mirror. What you really should do at this point is start the torrent download for the ISO you wanted, stop it, stick the broken ISO image in the location the torrent client was downloading to and start the torrent again. Your torrent client should verify each chunk individually and only need to download the chunks that have flawed data. [a] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease [b] BitTorrent is also chunked but normally in much smaller pieces and each piece is summed so there is no data corruption and you gain the value of the "swarm" (multiple locations to pull data from at the same time) [1] a rar being a random slice of binary data packed into different files to be put back together [2] http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ -- Jonathan Steffan daMaestro GPG Fingerprint: 93A2 3E2F DC26 5570 3472 5B16 AD12 6CE7 0D86 AF59 From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Feb 11 14:27:01 2008 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:27:01 -0500 Subject: Just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080211092701.63249bae@j2solutions.net> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:40:21 -0800 (PST) Peter Schmidt wrote: > Hi I'm a new user to Linux and I've never been able to > use Fedora but I'd really like to. Every time I > attempt to download, it takes a half day at least to > finish. When it does, theres some error on the iso > every single time or the download somehow messes up on > the way. I don't feel the need to order a DVD so > instead I thought I would suggest making a mirror > where there are maybe about 30 total .rar files. This > way people with slower internet can actually download > the OS and people like me won't have to worry about a > few MB causing the whole DVD to malfunction. I > personally wouldn't bother to do this with 8, once 9 > is released, then I would like to see segments. Why is bittorrent not an option here? It verifies as it downloads and downloads things in smaller chunks so that it can continue where left off at a later time. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 19:43:35 2008 From: sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com (Sarvoday Bishnoi) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:13:35 +0530 Subject: Just a suggestion In-Reply-To: <20080211092701.63249bae@j2solutions.net> References: <708836.720.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <20080211092701.63249bae@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <525c80e0802111143v4fe85afds2c486291f2f56c98@mail.gmail.com> Hi, And above all its resumable. 2008/2/11 Jesse Keating : > On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:40:21 -0800 (PST) > Peter Schmidt wrote: > > > Hi I'm a new user to Linux and I've never been able to > > use Fedora but I'd really like to. Every time I > > attempt to download, it takes a half day at least to > > finish. When it does, theres some error on the iso > > every single time or the download somehow messes up on > > the way. I don't feel the need to order a DVD so > > instead I thought I would suggest making a mirror > > where there are maybe about 30 total .rar files. This > > way people with slower internet can actually download > > the OS and people like me won't have to worry about a > > few MB causing the whole DVD to malfunction. I > > personally wouldn't bother to do this with 8, once 9 > > is released, then I would like to see segments. > > Why is bittorrent not an option here? It verifies as it downloads and > downloads things in smaller chunks so that it can continue where left > off at a later time. > > -- > Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) > Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) > GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > > -- sarvoday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ricky at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 12 03:54:01 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:54:01 -0500 Subject: Website Team Meetings Message-ID: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> (Cross-posted to the websites and marketing lists) Hi! I notice that we used to have Websites team meetings a long time ago, but they were suspended. At this point, we should be in a good position to start further expanding and defining our website, as we've seen in discussion on the websites and marketing lists. However, we still have a lot of design, content, and technical issues that need to be addressed before we can really move forward. With that said, this looks like a good time to setup a meeting time for everybody to discuss and participate in making these decisions. What would be a good time for everybody to meet on IRC? I should probably be good for most of Wednesday and Friday evenings or any time over the weekend). Right now, here are some items that we want to talk about: * Website purposes/targets * Expanding beyond our current content/design * Improving our handling of translations * Getting more people involved :) * <- Insert topic here What do you think? Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From orangewinds at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 04:37:42 2008 From: orangewinds at gmail.com (Jacob Taylor) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:37:42 -0800 Subject: Website Correction On http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ Message-ID: Hallo, To all whom it may concern, There is a misguided URL near the end of your page, regarding where to Download bittorrent software. - Download bittorrent: Use Fedora Extras: yum install bittorrent or from the homesite - install bittorrent - Open up ports 6881-6999/tcp so other clients can contact you for bits - figure out where you want the isos to go on your system The 'From the Homesite' link is incorrect, it should be http://www.bittorrent.com/download Thanks for your time, and I hope this helps Jacob Taylor -- Godspeed Anon. Tacgnol be with you. United as one. Divided by zero. http://dhsrobotics.no-ip.info/ ^^ DHS robotics website that I coded. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Feb 12 09:46:54 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:46:54 +0200 Subject: Website Team Meetings In-Reply-To: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> References: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> 2008/2/12 Ricky Zhou : > (Cross-posted to the websites and marketing lists) > > Hi! > > I notice that we used to have Websites team meetings a long time ago, > but they were suspended. At this point, we should be in a good position > to start further expanding and defining our website, as we've seen in > discussion on the websites and marketing lists. However, we still have > a lot of design, content, and technical issues that need to be addressed > before we can really move forward. > > With that said, this looks like a good time to setup a meeting time for > everybody to discuss and participate in making these decisions. What > would be a good time for everybody to meet on IRC? I should probably be > good for most of Wednesday and Friday evenings or any time over the > weekend). Good to know another person is feeling the same! We've been streamlining the way we do websites and they have moved from hackish things into proper resources with workflows etc. I think it's a really good time to get the team again off the ground and start working in making it easy for new contributors to join us. Unfortunately Raleigh evening means night in Europe (UTC+2 in Greece). Here's a table with both cities -- what other places are we interested in? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=2&day=12&year=2008&p1=0&p2=207&p3=26&p4=-1 -d (excited) > > Right now, here are some items that we want to talk about: > > * Website purposes/targets > * Expanding beyond our current content/design > * Improving our handling of translations > * Getting more people involved :) > * <- Insert topic here > > What do you think? > Ricky > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 17:01:36 2008 From: sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com (Sarvoday Bishnoi) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:31:36 +0530 Subject: Website Team Meetings In-Reply-To: <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <525c80e0802120901h5f5e22b6lf314d9551cd2dbe2@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I'm new to this mailing list but very familiar with fedora project. I would like to know if could help you in resolving "a lot of design, content, and technical issues" . Ricky, discussion on IRC would be nice, but I think weekend would be better, (actually its a request ;), rest you guys decide ). Cheers! Sarvoday It's never too late to become what you never were! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juankprada at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 17:20:23 2008 From: juankprada at gmail.com (Juan Camilo Prada) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:20:23 -0500 Subject: Website Team Meetings In-Reply-To: <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1202836823.5957.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:46 +0200, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > 2008/2/12 Ricky Zhou : > > (Cross-posted to the websites and marketing lists) > > > > Hi! > > > > I notice that we used to have Websites team meetings a long time ago, > > but they were suspended. At this point, we should be in a good position > > to start further expanding and defining our website, as we've seen in > > discussion on the websites and marketing lists. However, we still have > > a lot of design, content, and technical issues that need to be addressed > > before we can really move forward. > > > > With that said, this looks like a good time to setup a meeting time for > > everybody to discuss and participate in making these decisions. What > > would be a good time for everybody to meet on IRC? I should probably be > > good for most of Wednesday and Friday evenings or any time over the > > weekend). > > Good to know another person is feeling the same! We've been > streamlining the way we do websites and they have moved from hackish > things into proper resources with workflows etc. I think it's a really > good time to get the team again off the ground and start working in > making it easy for new contributors to join us. > +1 > Unfortunately Raleigh evening means night in Europe (UTC+2 in Greece). > Here's a table with both cities -- what other places are we interested > in? In this case i would suggest doing the meeting a weekend, as people have more free time. in my case Fridays or Mondays evenings are ok (weekends too) > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=2&day=12&year=2008&p1=0&p2=207&p3=26&p4=-1 > > -d (excited) > > > > > > > > > Right now, here are some items that we want to talk about: > > > > * Website purposes/targets > > * Expanding beyond our current content/design > > * Improving our handling of translations > > * Getting more people involved :) > > * <- Insert topic here > > > > What do you think? > > Ricky > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > From bicycle.nutz at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 17:29:20 2008 From: bicycle.nutz at gmail.com (Craig Thomas) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:29:20 -0500 Subject: Website Team Meetings In-Reply-To: <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 12, 2008 4:46 AM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > 2008/2/12 Ricky Zhou : > > (Cross-posted to the websites and marketing lists) > Good to know another person is feeling the same! We've been > streamlining the way we do websites and they have moved from hackish > things into proper resources with workflows etc. I think it's a really > good time to get the team again off the ground and start working in > making it easy for new contributors to join us. > > Unfortunately Raleigh evening means night in Europe (UTC+2 in Greece). > Here's a table with both cities -- what other places are we interested > in? +1 for starting the web meetings. That is a great idea. For me, weekends or any evening besides Wednesday would work. Other than that it would be hit and miss, week to week. I am UTC -5 (EST). -- Craig From sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 19:19:46 2008 From: sarvoday.bishnoi at gmail.com (Sarvoday Bishnoi) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:49:46 +0530 Subject: Website Team Meetings In-Reply-To: References: <20080212035401.GA3287@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> <6d4237680802120146r7d911e36vd78f74131e855cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <525c80e0802121119x69736a3fj6742d4c587e3787@mail.gmail.com> Hi count me UTC/GMT +5:30 hours On Feb 12, 2008 10:59 PM, Craig Thomas wrote: > On Feb 12, 2008 4:46 AM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > 2008/2/12 Ricky Zhou : > > > (Cross-posted to the websites and marketing lists) > > > > > Good to know another person is feeling the same! We've been > > streamlining the way we do websites and they have moved from hackish > > things into proper resources with workflows etc. I think it's a really > > good time to get the team again off the ground and start working in > > making it easy for new contributors to join us. > > > > Unfortunately Raleigh evening means night in Europe (UTC+2 in Greece). > > Here's a table with both cities -- what other places are we interested > > in? > > +1 for starting the web meetings. That is a great idea. > > For me, weekends or any evening besides Wednesday would work. Other > than that it would be hit and miss, week to week. > > I am UTC -5 (EST). > > -- > Craig > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > -- sarvoday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 12:36:26 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:36:26 +0300 Subject: Centralized Calendar Facility for Fedora Project Message-ID: <9d2c731f0802130436n64096555q5f92b61d26f731c3@mail.gmail.com> Websites Team: I'm not sure if this is the right place for this discussion, so please bear with me. As I get more involved in various aspects of the Fedora Project, I find it harder to track when different meetings are being held. I imagine there are other project members in the same predicament. One solution is to use an online tool like Google Calendar. We have used this in the past for the Fedora Docs Project. See http://www.google.com/calendar. Another temporary solution is a centralized wiki page with links to each and every Fedora project and SIG meeting page. This will eventually have a matrix of the regularly scheduled meeting times assuming that these meetings will take place in the #fedora-meeting IRC channel on FreeNode. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Meetings for my first attempt. The bottom line is this: 1. We need a central repository of all official, regularly scheduled meetings. 2. A central online tool like Google Calendar is ideal for this task. (I certainly am open to other alternatives, even one that we host ourselves.) 3. An interim solution is a common wiki page which gets updated as needed. Please provide me with constructive feedback as to whether this is a real need for the project and what solution is the best one to implement. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project PS - I also attempted to post this at fedora-infrastructure-list, still awaiting approval. From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 13:01:44 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:01:44 -0500 Subject: Centralized Calendar Facility for Fedora Project In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0802130436n64096555q5f92b61d26f731c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0802130436n64096555q5f92b61d26f731c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1202907704.6718.18.camel@ignacio.lan> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 15:36 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Please provide me with constructive feedback as to whether this is a > real need for the project and what solution is the best one to > implement. It's been a need for a long, long time. Almost for as long as I've been with the Project. Lots of jawing, not much action. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 13:16:55 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:16:55 +0300 Subject: Centralized Calendar Facility for Fedora Project In-Reply-To: <20080213140801.79118n5w80c44cko@login-15.hoststar.ch> References: <20080213140801.79118n5w80c44cko@login-15.hoststar.ch> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0802130516m12d99eb6oe041822ca93588f7@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 13, 2008 4:08 PM, Fabian Affolter <> wrote: > Zitat von John Babich : > There is a wiki page > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel > for all meetings. > Thanks, Fabian. That's what I was hoping for in terms of a wiki page. Is this being promoted enough? - I don't recall seeing it before, but I am glad it exists already. I would still like to see an online calender app of some kind - I may go ahead and create a Google Calendar with this info. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From fabian at bernewireless.net Wed Feb 13 13:08:01 2008 From: fabian at bernewireless.net (Fabian Affolter) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:08:01 +0100 Subject: Centralized Calendar Facility for Fedora Project Message-ID: <20080213140801.79118n5w80c44cko@login-15.hoststar.ch> Zitat von John Babich : > As I get more involved in various aspects of the Fedora Project, I > find it harder to track when different meetings are being held. I > imagine there are other project members in the same predicament. > > One solution is to use an online tool like Google Calendar. We have > used this in the past for the Fedora Docs Project. See > http://www.google.com/calendar. > > Another temporary solution is a centralized wiki page with links to > each and every Fedora project and SIG meeting page. This will > eventually have a matrix of the regularly scheduled meeting times > assuming that these meetings will take place in the #fedora-meeting > IRC channel on FreeNode. > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Meetings for my first attempt. > > The bottom line is this: > > 1. We need a central repository of all official, regularly scheduled > meetings. > 2. A central online tool like Google Calendar is ideal for this task. > (I certainly am open to other alternatives, even one that we host > ourselves.) > 3. An interim solution is a common wiki page which gets updated as needed. > There is a wiki page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for all meetings. Kind regards, Fabian From ricky at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 13 17:23:44 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:44 -0500 Subject: [stephen.chris@twgreeneyes.com: About the website language.] Message-ID: <20080213172344.GC3935@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> Sorry, accidentally rejected this one - don't forget to CC replies to Stephen. ----- Forwarded message from Stephen Chris ----- From: "Stephen Chris" To: "webmaster at fedoraproject.org" Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:43:52 +0800 Subject: About the website language. Hello, Fedora Webmaster, We are GreenEyes Ltd. in Taiwan, we spread Fedora Linux in Taiwan, but we descry the Fedora Web is not have Traditional Chinese language to choose (http://fedoraproject.org/en/), only Simplified Chinese. We do not want to discuss about the language problem, but we know a nice product want to spread for everybody, that have to let everybody know the product. We need a website of Traditional Chinese to help us to spread Fedora in Taiwan. We can afford the assist to build the Traditional Chinese website. -- ????????, ?????, ???????? Best Regards, GreenEyes Business Information System Development Inteman Online Virtual Business Unit Business Convener: Stephen Chris (Hsiang Hung, Hu) --- GreenEyes ???????????? ???? ??? ?????????????? ???? ??????: ??? Mobile Phone: +886 929152596 Homepage: http://www.twgreeneyes.com VT Page: http://groups.google.com.tw/group/greeneyes E-mail: bluecat.admin at gmail.com MSN Messenger: bluecat_studio at hotmail.com --- ????????????? ?????????? ????? http://class.ruten.com.tw/user/index00.php?s=nancy_tealeaf ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:36:23 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:36:23 -0500 Subject: About the website language. In-Reply-To: <20080213172344.GC3935@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> References: <20080213172344.GC3935@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <1202942183.6718.25.camel@ignacio.lan> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 23:43 +0800, Stephen Chris wrote: > Hello, Fedora Webmaster, > > We are GreenEyes Ltd. in Taiwan, we spread Fedora Linux in Taiwan, > but we descry the Fedora Web is not have Traditional Chinese language to > choose (http://fedoraproject.org/en/), only Simplified Chinese. > We do not want to discuss about the language problem, but we know a nice > product want to spread for everybody, > that have to let everybody know the product. > > We need a website of Traditional Chinese to help us to spread Fedora in > Taiwan. > We can afford the assist to build the Traditional Chinese website. Thank you for your interest in helping to translate the Fedora Project website. Information about our Localization Project is located at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N . Information about the progress of the localization of the Fedora websites is located at http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/fedora-web . We look forward to seeing your contributions. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams On behalf of the Fedora Project -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stephen.chris at twgreeneyes.com Thu Feb 14 16:06:57 2008 From: stephen.chris at twgreeneyes.com (Stephen Chris) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:06:57 +0800 Subject: About Fedora Taiwan Message-ID: Hello, Fedora Webmaster, I want to know about Taiwan support. Yours have return my mail. And I have view the fedora page. I don't know about the fedora project in Taiwan whether have any people/teams is work on FLP? If that is right, how do we contact with them? Or not, how shoud we do? -- ????????, ?????, ???????? Best Regards, GreenEyes Business Information System Development Inteman Online Virtual Business Unit Business Convener: Stephen Chris (Hsiang Hung, Hu) --- GreenEyes ???????????? ???? ??? ?????????????? ???? ??????: ??? Mobile Phone: +886 929152596 Homepage: http://www.twgreeneyes.com VT Page: http://groups.google.com.tw/group/greeneyes E-mail: bluecat.admin at gmail.com MSN Messenger: bluecat_studio at hotmail.com --- ????????????? ?????????? ????? http://class.ruten.com.tw/user/index00.php?s=nancy_tealeaf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tchung at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 14 21:53:59 2008 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:53:59 -0800 Subject: About Fedora Taiwan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <369bce3b0802141353ke3ddfb1pdc0d489392ded427@mail.gmail.com> 2008/2/14 Stephen Chris : > Hello, Fedora Webmaster, > > I want to know about Taiwan support. Yours have return my mail. > And I have view the fedora page. I don't know about the fedora project in > Taiwan whether have any people/teams is work on FLP? > > If that is right, how do we contact with them? Or not, how shoud we do? Hi Stephen, I would post your question to FLP (Fedora Localization Project)[1] via the mailing list[2]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N [2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 18:41:26 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:41:26 +0000 Subject: e-mail address? In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0802171015j7fe5bbc9q42526f151ae2a43b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0802171015j7fe5bbc9q42526f151ae2a43b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1203273686.31017.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 18:15 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > I was just looking around the wiki and came across this: > > press at fedoraproject.org > > as a suggested address for press to contact us. Does anybody monitor > this? Maybe it should go on the home page somewhere so people can > easily get in touch with us, without having to subscribe to the > marketing list etc... Yes, among other people I receive these emails. Maybe put this in the bottom banner along with the Sponsors and Legal links, as "Contacts"? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From charlescurley at charlescurley.com Fri Feb 15 13:52:17 2008 From: charlescurley at charlescurley.com (Charles Curley) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:52:17 -0700 Subject: User Hostile Download Page In-Reply-To: <1203079790.3917.5.camel@suspishus.lan.cameratim.com> References: <47B583EE.8070202@gmail.com> <1203079790.3917.5.camel@suspishus.lan.cameratim.com> Message-ID: <20080215135217.GA12658@charlescurley.com> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:19:50PM +1030, Tim wrote: > On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 12:22 +0000, Pedro Freire wrote: > > Before burning, and potentially wasting a disc, *I* check the downloaded > ISO against the checksum. After that check, I move onto the next step > (burning the disc, or simply using that file on the hard drive). Good advice. It would help if the sha1sums were readily available. To download the DVD image for F8, I went to http://fedoraproject.org/, and clicked on "Get Fedora" in the left hand column. That took me to http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora. Now, I may be getting blind in my old age, but I see no reference to [check|sha1|md5|etc...]sums on that page. To get the sha1sums (and the rescue CD image) I grabbed the URL of the DVD ISO, edited out the file name of the ISO file, and opened that URL (http://limestone.uoregon.edu/ftp/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/iso/) in another tab. I was then able to pull in the rest of the kit. How about providing direct links to these files on the download page? > > Before *you* download another four gigs, do that check, and see if what > you've downloaded is fine. If so, it's burning that you need to > concentrate on, and you can use what you've already downloaded, getting > it again is just going to be a waste. If not, then it's downloading > issues that you need to resolve. > > Some reference material: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ Generally a useful page, except: * It refers to F7, not F8. * It refers to Windows tools and procedures. That's fine for folks using Windows. However, news flash: there are other operating systems in the world: Mac OS X, Free BSD, HP-UX, and one you may not have heard of called "Linux". > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f8/ Again, as near as I can tell, no discussion of check sums or how to get and use them. And the main download page should have direct links to this sort of stuff. -- Charles Curley /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Looking for fine software \ / Respect for open standards and/or writing? X No HTML/RTF in email http://www.charlescurley.com / \ No M$ Word docs in email Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0 809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Sun Feb 17 08:00:32 2008 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:00:32 +0100 Subject: fedorahosted - it language Message-ID: <47B7E9A0.7040209@adamantio.net> Hi, We have submitted the italian translation for fedorahosted in the repository, but the site not reflect the possibility to choose "it" lang. Best regards -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com Mon Feb 18 15:39:09 2008 From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Paul W. Frields (pfrields)) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:39:09 -0500 Subject: web/html/docs/translation-quick-start-guide index.php,1.16,1.17 Message-ID: <200802181539.m1IFd9w6019830@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Author: pfrields Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/translation-quick-start-guide In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv19800 Modified Files: index.php Log Message: Redirect these stale languages to the canonical en_US until they're updated, and leave a note telling people how to git 'er done. ;-) Index: index.php =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/index.php,v retrieving revision 1.16 retrieving revision 1.17 diff -u -r1.16 -r1.17 --- index.php 9 Jun 2007 05:22:40 -0000 1.16 +++ index.php 18 Feb 2008 15:38:39 -0000 1.17 @@ -11,10 +11,13 @@

The Translation Quick Start Guide, a tutorial for translating Fedora programs and documentation, is available in the following languages:

+

US English | -???????????????? | -Espa??ol | -fran??ais | +???????????????? | +Espa??ol | +fran??ais | italiano | ????????? | Nederlands | @@ -22,10 +25,12 @@ polski | portugu??s | portugu??s brasileiro | -?????????????? | -???????????? | -svenska | -????????????

+?????????????? | +???????????? | +svenska | +????????????

+ +

Some of these languages are redirected to the US English (canonical) version until they are updated by the translation teams. This document is maintained in the "translation-quick-start-guide" module in Docs CVS, or you can translate it using the Transifex system. For more information, read the US English version of this guide.

References: <47B7E9A0.7040209@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <20080218221935.GC8580@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> On 2008-02-17 09:00:32 AM, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > We have submitted the italian translation for fedorahosted in the > repository, but the site not reflect the possibility to choose "it" lang. Sorry about that, I'm a bit behind on websites. I've pushed it now, so it shold show up in half an hour or so. Thanks a lot for the translation! Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 19 00:48:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:48:48 -0800 Subject: User Hostile Download Page In-Reply-To: <20080215135217.GA12658@charlescurley.com> References: <47B583EE.8070202@gmail.com> <1203079790.3917.5.camel@suspishus.lan.cameratim.com> <20080215135217.GA12658@charlescurley.com> Message-ID: <1203382128.5693.108.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 06:52 -0700, Charles Curley wrote: > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:19:50PM +1030, Tim wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 12:22 +0000, Pedro Freire wrote: > > > > > Before burning, and potentially wasting a disc, *I* check the downloaded > > ISO against the checksum. After that check, I move onto the next step > > (burning the disc, or simply using that file on the hard drive). > > Good advice. It would help if the sha1sums were readily available. To > download the DVD image for F8, I went to http://fedoraproject.org/, > and clicked on "Get Fedora" in the left hand column. That took me to > http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora. Now, I may be getting blind in my > old age, but I see no reference to [check|sha1|md5|etc...]sums on that > page. > > To get the sha1sums (and the rescue CD image) I grabbed the URL of the > DVD ISO, edited out the file name of the ISO file, and opened that URL > (http://limestone.uoregon.edu/ftp/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/iso/) > in another tab. I was then able to pull in the rest of the kit. > > How about providing direct links to these files on the download page? That seems like a good idea. If you feel up to it, it's easy to do your own fixes to show how you think it should be: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/ShowUs > > > > Before *you* download another four gigs, do that check, and see if what > > you've downloaded is fine. If so, it's burning that you need to > > concentrate on, and you can use what you've already downloaded, getting > > it again is just going to be a waste. If not, then it's downloading > > issues that you need to resolve. > > > > Some reference material: > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ > > Generally a useful page, except: > > * It refers to F7, not F8. > > * It refers to Windows tools and procedures. That's fine for folks > using Windows. However, news flash: there are other operating > systems in the world: Mac OS X, Free BSD, HP-UX, and one you may not > have heard of called "Linux". Short resources on the Documentation team means focusing on the biggest pain points and largest pool of needy users. For users of the other OSes you mention, they either are more likely to know how to burn a CD from an ISO (Free BSD, HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, etc.) or have an OS that treats them kindly when they double-click on an ISO file (OS X, some Linux distros.) The biggest audience that has historically needed help with burning an ISO to a disk is Microsoft Windows users. > Looking for fine software > and/or writing? Yes, we are. Feel free to write up and maintain a section on burning ISOs for any OS not included in the README already. Contributing is easy: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join You can pull down the source for the README here: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/readme-burning-isos/F-8/en_US/?root=docs ... using these instructions: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage#Anonymous_CVS An F8 branch was created; perhaps we just need an update to the content and a posting on the Docs website. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From diegobz at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 11:55:45 2008 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:55:45 -0300 Subject: fedorahosted - it language In-Reply-To: <47B7E9A0.7040209@adamantio.net> References: <47B7E9A0.7040209@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <6600c1b10802190355i4bea0ad9j767c77acfb9bd84e@mail.gmail.com> Hello. 2008/2/17, Francesco Tombolini : > > Hi, > We have submitted the italian translation for fedorahosted in the > repository, but the site not reflect the possibility to choose "it" lang. > > Same for pt_BR lang! Thanks -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred_leah at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 22 18:07:16 2008 From: fred_leah at yahoo.co.uk (Frederic Farel) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:07:16 +0000 Subject: F9 pre-release box Message-ID: <7D2942F9-D59F-480E-A8C4-7DBD4F775B86@yahoo.co.uk> To whom it may concern, The red box warning that F9 is a pre-release on the page http://fedoraproject.org/get-prerelease is very hard to read with the grey type. Regards, Frederic Farel From mspevack at redhat.com Mon Feb 25 19:20:06 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:20:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: the largest generator of 404s Message-ID: is our own http://fedoraproject.org/style.css requested URL # hits referrer /images/fedora-logo.png 64567 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ /images/border-right.png 38737 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ /images/border-left.png 38334 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ /images/line-bottom.png 38225 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ /images/line.png 37969 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ I was scrolling through the weblogs, and noticed that we spent over 2.25 GB of bandwidth in February alone service 404 pages. Dunno if anyone wants to look into this, but I thought I'd throw it out there. --Max From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Feb 25 20:10:52 2008 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:10:52 +0000 Subject: Interview Banner Message-ID: <3263b11b0802251210t12b3692ekd2b9b164e0a5a26d@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I've just put up a new interview (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/DanWilliams) and wondered if you could put the associated banner up on all the usual places? start.fp.o, fp.o etc etc Would be super if you could, oh and you can find it here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/PromoBanners#head-06f0aa176c62aa8a6d7dcfd70fc859a7a5e89cb1 (The interview is with Dan Williams...) Best wishes, Jon From rahmanangel at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 09:25:51 2008 From: rahmanangel at gmail.com (Angel) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:25:51 +0600 Subject: Hello All Message-ID: <47C3DB1F.5000400@gmail.com> Hello all, I am from Bangladesh. I join here, specially because, I want to translate Fedora Websites in my country language Bangla. Also I am a Fedora Ambassador for Bangladesh. Thank you. From phulen at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 17:07:58 2008 From: phulen at gmail.com (Patrick Hulen) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:07:58 -0500 Subject: the largest generator of 404s (Max Spevack) Message-ID: The CSS file (http://fedoraproject.org/style.css) is relatively referencing the border images that are not present at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/. I haven't yet edited anything here (or know if I even can), but that would seem to be the issue to me. Patrick Today's Topics: > > 1. the largest generator of 404s (Max Spevack) > 2. Interview Banner (Jonathan Roberts) > 3. Hello All (Angel) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:20:06 -0500 (EST) > From: Max Spevack > Subject: the largest generator of 404s > To: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > is our own http://fedoraproject.org/style.css > > requested URL # hits referrer > > /images/fedora-logo.png 64567 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/border-right.png 38737 > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/border-left.png 38334 > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/line-bottom.png 38225 > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/line.png > 37969 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > > I was scrolling through the weblogs, and noticed that we spent over 2.25 > GB of bandwidth in February alone service 404 pages. > > Dunno if anyone wants to look into this, but I thought I'd throw it out > there. > > --Max > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 18:51:06 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:51:06 -0500 Subject: Hello All In-Reply-To: <47C3DB1F.5000400@gmail.com> References: <47C3DB1F.5000400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1204051866.1838.7.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 15:25 +0600, Angel wrote: > Hello all, > I am from Bangladesh. > I join here, specially because, I want to translate Fedora Websites in > my country language Bangla. > Also I am a Fedora Ambassador for Bangladesh. > Thank you. Thank you for your enthusiasm. Please see the L10N wiki page[1] in order to get started. The Fedora website text is held in the fedora-web module of the translation website[2]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N [2] http://translate.fedoraproject.org/ -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ricky at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 26 22:48:48 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:48:48 -0500 Subject: the largest generator of 404s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080226224848.GH5840@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> On 2008-02-25 02:20:06 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > is our own http://fedoraproject.org/style.css > > requested URL # hits referrer > > /images/fedora-logo.png 64567 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/border-right.png 38737 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/border-left.png 38334 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/line-bottom.png 38225 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > /images/line.png 37969 http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > > I was scrolling through the weblogs, and noticed that we spent over 2.25 GB > of bandwidth in February alone service 404 pages. > > Dunno if anyone wants to look into this, but I thought I'd throw it out > there. Ah, thanks for catching this. Apparently, there was a puppet problem preventing the fixed templates from being pushed, but everything seems to be resolved now. Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lgautrot at redhat.com Wed Feb 27 11:24:08 2008 From: lgautrot at redhat.com (Laurent GAUTROT) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:24:08 +0100 Subject: About http://search.fedoraproject.org/ Message-ID: <200802271224.08141.lgautrot@redhat.com> Hi, I found this link on the webpage at $subject: "Reach higher. Fedora 7 now available." It's a bit out of date. ;) From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Feb 27 14:08:27 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:08:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: About http://search.fedoraproject.org/ In-Reply-To: <200802271224.08141.lgautrot@redhat.com> References: <200802271224.08141.lgautrot@redhat.com> Message-ID: Indeed it is, we don't actually run search.fedoraproject.org. I'm going to send a follow up and find out what the deal is there and if we're going to start using it. -Mike On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Laurent GAUTROT wrote: > Hi, > > I found this link on the webpage at $subject: > > "Reach higher. Fedora 7 now available." > > It's a bit out of date. ;) > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Feb 28 20:37:38 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:37:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Omniture & Fedora Message-ID: Fedora Webmasters: A while back (maybe back when we were still split between fedora.redhat.com and fedoraproject.org), we had some code on a few of our pages that allowed basic web statistics to be sucked into Red Hat's larger web traffic analysis program -- the stuff that tracks visits for redhat.com, jboss.com, etc. Red Hat uses something called Omniture for this. http://www.omniture.com/ In Fedora, we use awstats to track lots of things about people who visit *.fedoraproject.org, and I personally find those stats to be very interesting and revealing. The folks who manage Red Hat's Omniture stuff would like to add in a little bit of tracking into Fedora's websites. My understanding is that this would involve the addition of some Javascript on *selected* pages (perhaps index.html, get-fedora.html, join.html, release notes, whatever. We can discuss that). The purpose of adding this in would be to allow Red Hat's larger web analysis group to see how Fedora traffic compares to and maps to other Red Hat traffic. This would be valuable to them, and I would ask the Fedora Websites team to allow Jesse Eversole (Red Hat engineer who I have copied on this message) to share more details with you and then consider the proposal. Thank you for your time. --Max From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Feb 28 21:09:14 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:09:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking > infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to > say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user > of awstats in the past. To be clear: I am not proposing that Fedora *stop* using awstats. I love awstats. I am trying to open the door for Jesse to explain to the Fedora webmasters how we can make a few tweaks to enable Omniture, and why that would be useful to the larger body of Red Hat, and be a reasonably simple thing for Fedora to do. Jesse, could you give these folks some details? I'm opening the door for you, but you've gotta step through it :) --Max > Max Spevack wrote: >> Fedora Webmasters: >> >> A while back (maybe back when we were still split between fedora.redhat.com >> and fedoraproject.org), we had some code on a few of our pages that allowed >> basic web statistics to be sucked into Red Hat's larger web traffic >> analysis program -- the stuff that tracks visits for redhat.com, jboss.com, >> etc. >> >> Red Hat uses something called Omniture for this. >> http://www.omniture.com/ >> >> In Fedora, we use awstats to track lots of things about people who visit >> *.fedoraproject.org, and I personally find those stats to be very >> interesting and revealing. >> >> The folks who manage Red Hat's Omniture stuff would like to add in a little >> bit of tracking into Fedora's websites. >> >> My understanding is that this would involve the addition of some Javascript >> on *selected* pages (perhaps index.html, get-fedora.html, join.html, >> release notes, whatever. We can discuss that). >> >> The purpose of adding this in would be to allow Red Hat's larger web >> analysis group to see how Fedora traffic compares to and maps to other Red >> Hat traffic. This would be valuable to them, and I would ask the Fedora >> Websites team to allow Jesse Eversole (Red Hat engineer who I have copied >> on this message) to share more details with you and then consider the >> proposal. >> >> Thank you for your time. >> >> --Max > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 28 21:20:10 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:50:10 +0530 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> Max Spevack wrote: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > >> Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking >> infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to >> say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user >> of awstats in the past. > > To be clear: > > I am not proposing that Fedora *stop* using awstats. I love awstats. > > I am trying to open the door for Jesse to explain to the Fedora > webmasters how we can make a few tweaks to enable Omniture, and why that > would be useful to the larger body of Red Hat, and be a reasonably > simple thing for Fedora to do. > > Jesse, could you give these folks some details? I'm opening the door > for you, but you've gotta step through it :) Not to be negative but Fedora has avoided using proprietary software or services as much as possible and quite successfully. It is bad enough that trend is not kept as much within Red Hat but why proliferate it within Fedora too? Rahul From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Feb 28 21:29:45 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:29:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Not to be negative but Fedora has avoided using proprietary software > or services as much as possible and quite successfully. It is bad > enough that trend is not kept as much within Red Hat but why > proliferate it within Fedora too? Hi Rahul, Let me explain my reasons for beginning this thread in the manner in which I did: Things I am *not* doing: * I am not suggesting that Fedora should use any proprietary software. * I am not *mandating* that anyone in Fedora do anything. Things I *am* doing: * I am responding to a query from Red Hat's web team about how they can gain some visibility to Fedora traffic in their current system for all other Red Hat properties. * I am directing the person in charge of that (Jesse) to the Fedora Websites team so that he can state his case (if he so chooses) and have a conversation with the community. --- My goal is always to allow the community *doers* to interact directly with the Red Hat *doers* without folks like me having to be the middle man. So when someone comes to me with a request that really belongs in the hands of the Fedora Websites leaders, I believe that it is my job to bring those two parties together, and try to summarize the topic of discussion. I do this while trying not to offer my own opinion, so as not to sway the discussion one way or another. Ultimately, from the Fedora point of view, this is a question of "adding a little JavaScript to a few pages". The pros of this: * It is helpful to our friends in the larger Red Hat world, and we would be doing them a favor. The cons of this: * Our friends in the larger Red Hat world need that JavaScript in order to operate with a larger analysis system that Fedora would never choose to implement themselves due to philosophical reasons. It is up to the leaders within the Fedora Websites team to consider this and make a decision. They can reject it outright. They can ask for more information. They can debate. Whatever. But I assume that you would rather have the opportunity to make a decision like this directly, rather than have it be decided (in either direction) for you. --Max From rlorenz at waymark.net Thu Feb 28 20:48:07 2008 From: rlorenz at waymark.net (Rubye) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:48:07 -0600 Subject: Problem Message-ID: <000601c87a4b$39cf6c50$e1e435cf@Owner> When I try to pull up this web sight www.lonestarwinecellars.com I get a Fedora test page. Why? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeversol at redhat.com Thu Feb 28 21:01:48 2008 From: jeversol at redhat.com (Jesse Eversole Jr) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user of awstats in the past. Max Spevack wrote: > Fedora Webmasters: > > A while back (maybe back when we were still split between > fedora.redhat.com and fedoraproject.org), we had some code on a few of > our pages that allowed basic web statistics to be sucked into Red > Hat's larger web traffic analysis program -- the stuff that tracks > visits for redhat.com, jboss.com, etc. > > Red Hat uses something called Omniture for this. > http://www.omniture.com/ > > In Fedora, we use awstats to track lots of things about people who > visit *.fedoraproject.org, and I personally find those stats to be > very interesting and revealing. > > The folks who manage Red Hat's Omniture stuff would like to add in a > little bit of tracking into Fedora's websites. > > My understanding is that this would involve the addition of some > Javascript on *selected* pages (perhaps index.html, get-fedora.html, > join.html, release notes, whatever. We can discuss that). > > The purpose of adding this in would be to allow Red Hat's larger web > analysis group to see how Fedora traffic compares to and maps to other > Red Hat traffic. This would be valuable to them, and I would ask the > Fedora Websites team to allow Jesse Eversole (Red Hat engineer who I > have copied on this message) to share more details with you and then > consider the proposal. > > Thank you for your time. > > --Max From jeversol at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 00:50:46 2008 From: jeversol at redhat.com (Jesse Eversole Jr) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:50:46 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <47C756E6.7000008@redhat.com> We discussed whether to track fedora.org with Omniture a couple of years ago and elected not to do so at the time. If there is interest in the Fedora website management community to explore the differences between tracking using a tool like awstats versus Omniture then I would suggest that we start up a thread on the topic. We can explain how our tracking system works and the reports that would be available to the community. I would also be interested in a discussion on the topic of what it means to have "open services" versus "proprietary services" as it relates to "open source" versus "proprietary source". I see this as a challenge for us at Red Hat in the growing market of SOAS and hosted systems and for the open source community. Jesse Max Spevack wrote: > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Not to be negative but Fedora has avoided using proprietary software >> or services as much as possible and quite successfully. It is bad >> enough that trend is not kept as much within Red Hat but why >> proliferate it within Fedora too? > > Hi Rahul, > > Let me explain my reasons for beginning this thread in the manner in > which I did: > > Things I am *not* doing: > > * I am not suggesting that Fedora should use any proprietary software. > > * I am not *mandating* that anyone in Fedora do anything. > > Things I *am* doing: > > * I am responding to a query from Red Hat's web team about how they > can gain some visibility to Fedora traffic in their current system for > all other Red Hat properties. > > * I am directing the person in charge of that (Jesse) to the Fedora > Websites team so that he can state his case (if he so chooses) and > have a conversation with the community. > > --- > > My goal is always to allow the community *doers* to interact directly > with the Red Hat *doers* without folks like me having to be the middle > man. So when someone comes to me with a request that really belongs in > the hands of the Fedora Websites leaders, I believe that it is my job > to bring those two parties together, and try to summarize the topic of > discussion. > > I do this while trying not to offer my own opinion, so as not to sway > the discussion one way or another. > > Ultimately, from the Fedora point of view, this is a question of > "adding a little JavaScript to a few pages". > > The pros of this: > * It is helpful to our friends in the larger Red Hat world, and we > would be doing them a favor. > > The cons of this: > * Our friends in the larger Red Hat world need that JavaScript in > order to operate with a larger analysis system that Fedora would never > choose to implement themselves due to philosophical reasons. > > It is up to the leaders within the Fedora Websites team to consider > this and make a decision. They can reject it outright. They can ask > for more information. They can debate. Whatever. > > But I assume that you would rather have the opportunity to make a > decision like this directly, rather than have it be decided (in either > direction) for you. > > --Max From ricky at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 29 03:38:20 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:38:20 -0500 Subject: Problem In-Reply-To: <000601c87a4b$39cf6c50$e1e435cf@Owner> References: <000601c87a4b$39cf6c50$e1e435cf@Owner> Message-ID: <20080229033820.GE4775@Max.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net> On 2008-02-28 02:48:07 PM, Rubye wrote: > When I try to pull up this web sight www.lonestarwinecellars.com I get a Fedora test page. Why? That is a test page included with our operating system; we don't actually control the site in question. For more information about this, please refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ServerTestPage. (Actually, it looks like the website owner has already fixed the problem at this point.) Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gshipley at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 12:30:53 2008 From: gshipley at redhat.com (Grant Shipley) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:30:53 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <47C7FAFD.8040705@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Max Spevack wrote: >> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: >> >>> Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking >>> infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to >>> say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user >>> of awstats in the past. >> >> To be clear: >> >> I am not proposing that Fedora *stop* using awstats. I love awstats. >> >> I am trying to open the door for Jesse to explain to the Fedora >> webmasters how we can make a few tweaks to enable Omniture, and why >> that would be useful to the larger body of Red Hat, and be a >> reasonably simple thing for Fedora to do. >> >> Jesse, could you give these folks some details? I'm opening the door >> for you, but you've gotta step through it :) > > Not to be negative but Fedora has avoided using proprietary software > or services as much as possible and quite successfully. It is bad > enough that trend is not kept as much within Red Hat but why > proliferate it within Fedora too? > > Rahul > While I agree that tracking Fedora downloads and web site traffic is a great idea, I don't think Omniture is a good fit to do this. Omniture is a great web site statistics and analytics tool but I agree with Rahul on this one -- It doesn't fit well with the mission of Fedora. -- grant From jkeating at j2solutions.net Fri Feb 29 14:57:11 2008 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:57:11 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:01:48 -0500 Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking > infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to > say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user > of awstats in the past. Hi Jesse. The question of superiority isn't interesting. Fedora is very very committed to doing what it needs to get done using completely opensource products when possible. (I say when possible to avoid derailed discussions about PC bioses and router firmwares) The reality is that Fedora itself would not make use of any thing that Omniture may learn from our site. We're doing just fine with awstats, and anything we feel is missing from awstats we'd work with the upstream to provide that functionality. However, if Red Hat as a corporation feels that they need to gather some information about the Fedora websites, and that information is only available through Omniture, and getting data to Omniture is only possible through runtime java scripts, that's something else to discuss. Can you explain what the java scripts are, how they work, what license they're under, etc..? -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeversol at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 16:16:17 2008 From: jeversol at redhat.com (Jesse Eversole Jr) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:16:17 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> Sure, Omniture uses what I call a "client side" tracking technique using javascript to dynamically markup an image tag with a query string and fetch that image from Omniture's servers sending data to them via the query string. Google and Yahoo offer similar services with less sophisticated features, but the approach is effectively the same. The data is stored on Omniture's servers and available for reporting in near real time especially when it comes to basic traffic data. It is probably important to note that Omniture and awstats are not mutually exclusive. One is server based and the other runs on the webpage sending data to a hosted platform. I would have to dig into details to completely expose what our license agreement with Omniture is as is applies to the usage of their software since is a service that we buy from them. Omniture is more akin to Salesforce.com and Google Analytics. To get started with the base functionality of Omniture you drop in some javascript, hopefully in a header or footer, and a few minutes later you can login to your account and start looking at traffic reports. Omniture has many sophisticated features one of which has the interest of Red Hat in response to your comment about Red Hat's needs relating to Fedora. We have the capability with Omniture to do cross-domain path analysis. That is, we can gain much deeper insight into the relationship between the two or more sites from tracking cross site browsing behavior. We can track visitor paths across multiple sites including our international sites. This extends beyond simple entry and exit page analysis. The data is rich and the reporting interface powerful to the extent that it takes some time to explore all the different capabilities should the Fedora community wish to use Omniture for some of its own reporting. We have been asked by the JBoss folks to setup jboss.org and I am currently working with that group to outfit jboss.org. It is almost a cut and paste task into a header template for basic tracking and you are welcome to sit in (with my management's approval of course) on that deployment and post deployment reporting. The decision as to whether deploying a piece of javascript code on a fedora.org page supplied by Red Hat using a Red Hat funded hosting service like Omniture is in conflict with Fedora's core mission in my opinion clearly belongs to the Fedora community. Thanks, Jesse Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:01:48 -0500 > Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > > >> Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking >> infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to >> say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a user >> of awstats in the past. >> > > Hi Jesse. The question of superiority isn't interesting. Fedora is > very very committed to doing what it needs to get done using completely > opensource products when possible. (I say when possible to avoid > derailed discussions about PC bioses and router firmwares) > > The reality is that Fedora itself would not make use of any thing that > Omniture may learn from our site. We're doing just fine with awstats, > and anything we feel is missing from awstats we'd work with the > upstream to provide that functionality. > > However, if Red Hat as a corporation feels that they need to gather > some information about the Fedora websites, and that information is > only available through Omniture, and getting data to Omniture is only > possible through runtime java scripts, that's something else to discuss. > > Can you explain what the java scripts are, how they work, what license > they're under, etc..? > > From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 29 16:18:27 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:18:27 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1204301907.8099.60.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 11:16 -0500, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > Sure, > > Omniture uses what I call a "client side" tracking technique using > javascript to dynamically markup an image tag with a query string and > fetch that image from Omniture's servers sending data to them via the > query string. Google and Yahoo offer similar services with less > sophisticated features, but the approach is effectively the same. The > data is stored on Omniture's servers and available for reporting in near > real time especially when it comes to basic traffic data. It is > probably important to note that Omniture and awstats are not mutually > exclusive. One is server based and the other runs on the webpage > sending data to a hosted platform. > > I would have to dig into details to completely expose what our license > agreement with Omniture is as is applies to the usage of their software > since is a service that we buy from them. Omniture is more akin to > Salesforce.com and Google Analytics. > Oh, right. This is where we got in trouble around about FC6, wasn't it? B/c it is more or less a tracking image? -sv From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 16:30:26 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:30:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > Sure, > > Omniture uses what I call a "client side" tracking technique using javascript > to dynamically markup an image tag with a query string and fetch that image > from Omniture's servers sending data to them via the query string. Google and > Yahoo offer similar services with less sophisticated features, but the > approach is effectively the same. The data is stored on Omniture's servers > and available for reporting in near real time especially when it comes to > basic traffic data. It is probably important to note that Omniture and > awstats are not mutually exclusive. One is server based and the other runs on > the webpage sending data to a hosted platform. > > I would have to dig into details to completely expose what our license > agreement with Omniture is as is applies to the usage of their software since > is a service that we buy from them. Omniture is more akin to Salesforce.com > and Google Analytics. > To get started with the base functionality of Omniture you drop in some > javascript, hopefully in a header or footer, and a few minutes later you can > login to your account and start looking at traffic reports. Omniture has many > sophisticated features one of which has the interest of Red Hat in response to > your comment about Red Hat's needs relating to Fedora. We have the capability > with Omniture to do cross-domain path analysis. That is, we can gain much > deeper insight into the relationship between the two or more sites from > tracking cross site browsing behavior. We can track visitor paths across > multiple sites including our international sites. This extends beyond simple > entry and exit page analysis. The data is rich and the reporting interface > powerful to the extent that it takes some time to explore all the different > capabilities should the Fedora community wish to use Omniture for some of its > own reporting. > I think this is great, really. I'd love to do it but Omniture has chosen to build their software in a closed source manner so I don't think we can do it. Unless they want to OSS their code, we won't be able to use it. -Mike From jeversol at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 17:31:08 2008 From: jeversol at redhat.com (Jesse Eversole Jr) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:31:08 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47C8415C.7050002@redhat.com> In answer to the question as to when Omniture might open source their hosting code I would say definitely not before they let Charles Manson out of jail. I could be wrong. I am genuinely interested in the movement toward hosted systems that are driven by proprietary software. Many of these systems are data collection and reporting systems that serve business needs. The data belongs to the subscriber of the service while the core software remains proprietary and belongs to the hosting provider. In many cases these systems provide open APIs for clients to customize their own installations. In reading the thread I am interpreting from some that service providers such as Salesforce should open source the software that drives their service business. Indeed I have heard calls for Red Hat to open source RHN. Google is a proprietary software service that makes money off indexing open source websites as well as the rest of the world. Does it make sense for an open source community driven website to collect revenue from banner ads pointing to its site through Google? Mike McGrath wrote: > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > > >> Sure, >> >> Omniture uses what I call a "client side" tracking technique using javascript >> to dynamically markup an image tag with a query string and fetch that image >> from Omniture's servers sending data to them via the query string. Google and >> Yahoo offer similar services with less sophisticated features, but the >> approach is effectively the same. The data is stored on Omniture's servers >> and available for reporting in near real time especially when it comes to >> basic traffic data. It is probably important to note that Omniture and >> awstats are not mutually exclusive. One is server based and the other runs on >> the webpage sending data to a hosted platform. >> >> I would have to dig into details to completely expose what our license >> agreement with Omniture is as is applies to the usage of their software since >> is a service that we buy from them. Omniture is more akin to Salesforce.com >> and Google Analytics. >> To get started with the base functionality of Omniture you drop in some >> javascript, hopefully in a header or footer, and a few minutes later you can >> login to your account and start looking at traffic reports. Omniture has many >> sophisticated features one of which has the interest of Red Hat in response to >> your comment about Red Hat's needs relating to Fedora. We have the capability >> with Omniture to do cross-domain path analysis. That is, we can gain much >> deeper insight into the relationship between the two or more sites from >> tracking cross site browsing behavior. We can track visitor paths across >> multiple sites including our international sites. This extends beyond simple >> entry and exit page analysis. The data is rich and the reporting interface >> powerful to the extent that it takes some time to explore all the different >> capabilities should the Fedora community wish to use Omniture for some of its >> own reporting. >> >> > > I think this is great, really. I'd love to do it but Omniture has chosen > to build their software in a closed source manner so I don't think we can > do it. Unless they want to OSS their code, we won't be able to use it. > > -Mike > From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 17:56:39 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:56:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C8415C.7050002@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> <47C8415C.7050002@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > > In answer to the question as to when Omniture might open source their hosting > code I would say definitely not before they let Charles Manson out of jail. I > could be wrong. I am genuinely interested in the movement toward hosted > systems that are driven by proprietary software. Many of these systems are > data collection and reporting systems that serve business needs. The data > belongs to the subscriber of the service while the core software remains > proprietary and belongs to the hosting provider. In many cases these systems > provide open APIs for clients to customize their own installations. In reading > the thread I am interpreting from some that service providers such as > Salesforce should open source the software that drives their service business. > Indeed I have heard calls for Red Hat to open source RHN. Google is a > proprietary software service that makes money off indexing open source > websites as well as the rest of the world. Does it make sense for an open > source community driven website to collect revenue from banner ads pointing to > its site through Google? > No it doesn't. The board decided we could get some banner ads through search.fedoraproject.org. We don't run search.fedoraproject.org so the decision was made that it was ok in that case as it would benefit Fedora directly and we still would not be running closed source software on Fedora Servers. Its worth noting... its still not done and search.fedoraproject.org is still not in use. -Mike From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Feb 29 23:55:45 2008 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:55:45 -0800 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C8415C.7050002@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> <47C8415C.7050002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47C89B81.1070309@gmail.com> Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > > In answer to the question as to when Omniture might open source their > hosting code I would say definitely not before they let Charles Manson > out of jail. I could be wrong. I am genuinely interested in the movement > toward hosted systems that are driven by proprietary software. Many of > these systems are data collection and reporting systems that serve > business needs. The data belongs to the subscriber of the service while > the core software remains proprietary and belongs to the hosting > provider. In many cases these systems provide open APIs for clients to > customize their own installations. A few questions: To be clear, who owns the data in this Omniture exchange? What data is sent into the service? Can we get it back out in raw form (and who does that belong to)? Can we get it back out in processed form (and who does that belong to)? Do the pieces of software (the javascript on the client in this case) have an open source license? We've talked about the possibility of using S3 before and we have s3fs and boto in Fedora. S3 is a proprietary web service but it seems we've entertained the idea of using it because: 1) The code that runs on the client is open source. 2) The data (in S3, files) is ours and can be placed into the service and taken out with no problems. If it's not okay to be packaged in Fedora we've so far said no to using it for Fedora. If Omniture placed the javascript client code under an OSS license (or someone reimplemented it under an OSS license being careful not to violate copyright law) then I'm pretty sure it could be made available in Fedora repositories. That would eliminate the #1 blocker to using it on our websites. That would still leave the interesting question of whether we would be okay with: 1) the data going from us to Omniture. 2) the data being used by Red Hat. 3) using the data ourselves. 4) whether we'd want to be able to pull the data back out in raw form or a processed form that we would be free do things with. > In reading the thread I am > interpreting from some that service providers such as Salesforce should > open source the software that drives their service business. Not necessarily. What I hear is if Salesforce was used within Fedora then it should be open source before that happens. (Of course, raving open source fanatic that I am, I'd be very happy if Salesforce open sourced their code :-) > Indeed I > have heard calls for Red Hat to open source RHN. RHN is a funny proposition since Red Hat is in the business of convincing other companies that open source software is superior... but has a piece of proprietary software in its offering. I think it's a distraction in a conversation about whether we want to help Red hat by using a hopefully open source piece of client code via a closed-source company. > Google is a proprietary > software service that makes money off indexing open source websites as > well as the rest of the world. Does it make sense for an open source > community driven website to collect revenue from banner ads pointing to > its site through Google? Generically, it might make sense. Specifically for Fedora it probably does not. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ebattle at redhat.com Fri Feb 29 12:43:51 2008 From: ebattle at redhat.com (Emma S. Battle) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:43:51 -0500 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C7FAFD.8040705@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <47C7258A.5020709@fedoraproject.org> <47C7FAFD.8040705@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47C7FE07.4080000@redhat.com> No problem...we are not trying to force a solution where it is not wanted. As one of our brand principles states, we are all about "choice".... e Grant Shipley wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Max Spevack wrote: >>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone who would like to know more about how our website tracking >>>> infrastructure works please feel free to contact me. It suffices to >>>> say that you will find it far superior to awstats having been a >>>> user of awstats in the past. >>> >>> To be clear: >>> >>> I am not proposing that Fedora *stop* using awstats. I love awstats. >>> >>> I am trying to open the door for Jesse to explain to the Fedora >>> webmasters how we can make a few tweaks to enable Omniture, and why >>> that would be useful to the larger body of Red Hat, and be a >>> reasonably simple thing for Fedora to do. >>> >>> Jesse, could you give these folks some details? I'm opening the >>> door for you, but you've gotta step through it :) >> >> Not to be negative but Fedora has avoided using proprietary software >> or services as much as possible and quite successfully. It is bad >> enough that trend is not kept as much within Red Hat but why >> proliferate it within Fedora too? >> >> Rahul >> > While I agree that tracking Fedora downloads and web site traffic is a > great idea, I don't think Omniture is a good fit to do this. Omniture > is a great web site statistics and analytics tool but I agree with > Rahul on this one -- It doesn't fit well with the mission of Fedora. > > -- > grant From bob at cbccgroup.com Fri Feb 29 16:38:15 2008 From: bob at cbccgroup.com (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:38:15 -0600 Subject: Omniture & Fedora In-Reply-To: <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> References: <47C7213C.40407@redhat.com> <20080229095711.54ebd4c8@j2solutions.net> <47C82FD1.1070801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47C834F7.1030201@cbccgroup.com> Jesse Eversole Jr wrote: > Sure, > > Omniture uses what I call a "client side" tracking technique using > javascript to dynamically markup an image tag with a query string and > fetch that image from Omniture's servers sending data to them via the > query string. Google and Yahoo offer similar services with less > sophisticated features, but the approach is effectively the same. The > data is stored on Omniture's servers and available for reporting in near > real time especially when it comes to basic traffic data. It is > probably important to note that Omniture and awstats are not mutually > exclusive. One is server based and the other runs on the webpage > sending data to a hosted platform. > > I would have to dig into details to completely expose what our license > agreement with Omniture is as is applies to the usage of their software > since is a service that we buy from them. Omniture is more akin to > Salesforce.com and Google Analytics. > To get started with the base functionality of Omniture you drop in some > javascript, hopefully in a header or footer, and a few minutes later you > can login to your account and start looking at traffic reports. > Omniture has many sophisticated features one of which has the interest > of Red Hat in response to your comment about Red Hat's needs relating to > Fedora. We have the capability with Omniture to do cross-domain path > analysis. That is, we can gain much deeper insight into the > relationship between the two or more sites from tracking cross site > browsing behavior. We can track visitor paths across multiple sites > including our international sites. This extends beyond simple entry and > exit page analysis. The data is rich and the reporting interface > powerful to the extent that it takes some time to explore all the > different capabilities should the Fedora community wish to use Omniture > for some of its own reporting. > > We have been asked by the JBoss folks to setup jboss.org and I am > currently working with that group to outfit jboss.org. It is almost a > cut and paste task into a header template for basic tracking and you are > welcome to sit in (with my management's approval of course) on that > deployment and post deployment reporting. The decision as to whether > deploying a piece of javascript code on a fedora.org page supplied by > Red Hat using a Red Hat funded hosting service like Omniture is in > conflict with Fedora's core mission in my opinion clearly belongs to the > Fedora community. > Thanks, > > Jesse > Personally as a fedora project contributor I think this kind of information for FEDORA.ORG might be interesting. I am not sure who owns that domain but it sure would help us put a value on it just in case the Fedora Project wants to buy it some day. Hopefully you get my point. -- 73, Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIG/AmateurRadio