Re: [OS:N:] Re: Open Source in Schools and then some

[jmcdermo redhat com]

Evan Leibovitch wrote:

> What's less clear
> is whether it affects the lives of my technophobe friends. How is the DMCA
> changing their lives.

Well, since you asked:
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/20020509_dmca_consequences_pr.html

You can find lots of links pointing out the flaws with the DMCA, and how
it affects daily life just by doing a Yahoo search with the word "DMCA" in
the search line. Very popular subject.
Of course it affects the technophobes directly as well, since they are afraid
to work with new technologies and the old ones are stripped away on
a regular basis, thus forcing them into new technologies. Therefore, new
legislation is making their lives hell. I would think they could be interested in
that.

>
> Note that I'm not saying the DMCA should be left unchallenged, just that
> it's practically wasted breath trying to convince technophobes that this
> means something to them.
>

I think you are greatly underestimating the audience. Educators are some of
the most Open minded people on the planet. They have to be, they have to
overcome a new set of kids every year and convince them that education is
relevant and important for their future. As generations change so must the methods
to do this. Thus, they are open to new ideas, and should be provided them. As
Open minded people many are not in fact technophobes. Just because you do
not know much about technology does not mean you are afraid of it.

In addition to this,  _you_ pointed out the DMCA, not I. I stated Open Source has
a sociological effect. You said it did not. Then you pointed out the DMCA. It is
an interesting direction to go in if you would like to discuss it, and this is
a perfect forum to spread the problems it is causing and how it affects the
education community.

Also I usually do not speak about political evangalizing when speaking with
people about Open Source, however, I _converse_ with them about Open Source.
I have yet to have a conversation about Open Source I found to be wasted breath.
Jamming facts and figures down someones throat is what has been done for years.
I usually ask a question about how they see their future teaching, should it be the
way it has always been, or is it time to start using their old hardware to create new
ideas and breed collaboration with other classes. It is really amazing how much
change 1 person can have on the future direction of a program when armed with
the truth.

>
> > Do you really want to start the next generation off in the hole with
> > less freedoms than they have today, and precedents to maintain that
> > state?
>
> Of course they do. That's why they elect governments that pass laws to
> ban assault weapons, criminalize driving while using cellphones and force
> restaurants to get rid of smoking areas. People not only give up rights,
> they gladly advocate the taking away of the rights of others. Happens all
> the time. People are constantly curtailing freedoms in favor of some
> perceived greater good.
>
> The DMCA is hardly a groundbreaking example of removal of rights, it just
> happens to be one that (rightfully) gets open sourcers tied up in knots.
> But just as the NRA believe it exists to maintain certain kinds of rights,
> the EFF and similar orgs exist to maintain other kinds of freedoms.
>

Im glad you suggested the DMCA then. For it is a nice example you have made at how
commonplace it has become for rights to be taken away.
There is another discussion here about the levels of freedoms which I will not touch
on, though comparing the DMCA and driving while on a cellphone is a rather poor
comparison as to what has been lost. The question of who is suffering comes up,
but Ill let that drop.

>
> This is hardly anything new.
>
> >    The fact of the matter is people to easilly disregard Open Source
> > developers and users as "zealots" and "just preaching" when in fact
> > the time has come when rights are being flushed down the drain.
>
> Keep waving your arms in the air, to people who don't care about your
> message, and the labels will continue to stick.
>

What you percieve as waving of arms I percieve as stopping people
walking into a burning building. If you want to label me for trying to
prevent people from getting burned, go ahead, I will wear it proudly.

>
> It's vital to carry the message as deep into the IT community as we can.
> When we succeed there the results will filter through into the rest of
> society, and that's arguably already started to happen. But it *must* be
> filtered that way -- for societal shifts do not turn on a dime. Going
> direct to the uncaring masses is an exercize in futility and possible
> humiliation.
>

Says who? You do remember how the 60's died right? *Disco*

There comes a time when the uncarring masses should hear this message.
With the new license restrictions on PC's, and quality of the Linux projects
it is time to take that message to them.
With the future in mind it is time to take that message to them.
With the money it will save our government and schools it is time to take the
message to them.
With the security it will provide it is time to take the message to them.
However you want to spread this message, price, quality, politics, the future,
putting the box of your favorite distro on the top shelf so others can see, it is
up to you.

>
> But, hey, it's your life. If you believe that this is your calling, knock
> yourself out. I just don't think it's the most efficient use of your
> political energy.
>

It is my life, and it is important to me. As the old saying goes, if I can
help just 1 person, then I have succeeded. I believe this to be one way
to spread Linux to the masses, go and talk to them 1 at a time and find
out what I can do to help. As a picture is worth a thousand words, a gesture
is worth ten times that.

I think it is worth mentioning the original post was limited to approaching one
person, and I merely was sympathizing. However, in the expansion of the topic
I think there are many grounds which have been covered briefly which all put
in one place would be an excellent source of relelvant information for those
interested in approaching 1 person going forward.

--J


>
> --
> Evan Leibovitch, Brampton, Canada <evan at telly dot org>
> Anything not worth doing is not worth doing well.
>
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