RE: [OS:N:] OSN - what are the best desktop systemsforeducational use?

[Chris Spencer <cspencer cait org>]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 13:01, Brian E. Adams wrote:
> Can you clarify 'linux is far superior to Windows' for me?
> 

Brian,

As a Microsoft employee it may pain you to admit that indeed Linux is
consistently more complete, more stable, more flexible, and more secure
than any Microsoft OS.

You must recognize these things to be true or why would you be on this
list unless you just want to spy and try to covertly influence things in
favor of your employer.

I know that's not the case though because you have been most helpful at
times to some of the high school tech coordinators with their Linux
problems.  You have consistently shown a high level of understanding
across platforms.

Anyway, since you are asking I will be happy to point out some things
that would indicate the things I have mentioned.

First, the most complete OS.  By this I mean it includes with the core
OS more products across the spectrum of software types.  (Productivity,
Games, Communications, etc)

The stability issue is in part because Linux has the ability to update
most of the components without restarting the OS.  Hence, uptimes of
over a year are frequently recognized.

The flexibility of the Linux OS is evidenced by the variety of roles
that it can play from embedded devices all the way up to high end
servers.  I am not saying here that Microsoft doesn't have products to
fit many of those needs but I am contending that they are very different
products.  

The flexibility is further evidenced by the wide variety of tools to
accomplish a given task that are included by default with the operating
system.

The security is evidenced by turn around time on fixing critical
security problems, by the frequency of massive security issues crippling
their users, and of course by the $5 million dollar bounty Microsoft
needed to place on people for their demonstrations of these
vulnerabilities.  

Personally I think that Microsoft should reward people for demonstrating
their security vulnerabilities to them.  Perhaps if they paid $5 million
to have people provide information on identification of these security
flaws.

Of course more than anything that's the problem with Microsoft.  They
see the glass as half empty.  Instead of doing things that would make
the world better they choose to act as if the world is out to get them. 
They assume that their customers are thieves as is evidenced by far too
many things too name, they use the copyright laws to lock people into
their products and then they proceed with their best effort to see that
they can't get out, and they have more money sitting in the bank than
they know what to do with.  

The truth is even Microsoft knows that their products are technically
inferior.  After all, if they weren't then seeking open standards to
communicate on across all computing problems wouldn't be such a big
deal.  Yet, that's not the case.

-Chris


On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 13:01, Brian E. Adams wrote:
> Can you clarify 'linux is far superior to Windows' for me?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: open-source-now-list-admin redhat com
> [mailto:open-source-now-list-admin redhat com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Hogan
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:44 PM
> To: open-source-now-list redhat com
> Subject: Re: [OS:N:] OSN - what are the best desktop systems foreducational
> use?
> 
> I would consider the classroom and lab environment a controlled setting,
> with staffing for support (in many cases). You can set policy as to how
> and where to get bits, have content filtering and firewalling.
> 
> The desktop != workstation in our strategy. The article you are likely
> referring to chose the quotes the author thought made for sexy press.
> And he was right, what was lost is the inferred "ready for Red Hat to
> commit support and life cycle resources and service agreements" and also
> lost the context of our roadmap which puts our desktop offering 12
> months out.
> 
> Technically, of course, Linux is far superior to windows. But having
> suffered through rolling 3000 people from Windows 95 to 98,  The
> majority of which use computers because they have to. It's no picnic
> when things look and feel and operate mostly the same, but in the case
> of a corporate workstation the user has to adapt to what the IT folks
> say to run, and for the IT folks having it hard for the user to double
> click an attachment that grinds the e-mail system to a halt is a bonus. 
> As for home users, they are a nice combination of very fickle and
> stubborn. They want to and will install whatever they can et their hands
> on. They want the option of sticking with exactly that if they wish, and
> won't even go for clones that are functionally equivalent.
> 
> So for many many people, if you grant that the desktop market is a MS
> market, Linux is not ready. It's not dumb enough on the top, despite
> being smarter underneath. Too much hardware doesn't work out of the box,
> mime types act differently for different programs, there's not enough
> standards compliance within many distributions, let alone between them.
> 
> The last thing I'll mention, before it starts to sound like RH doesn't
> think it will ever happen, is installation. No matter how easy it gets,
> it will never be seen as "easy" as a Windows install b/c no one installs
> Windows. It comes on the machine. 
> 
> For Linux to be the all singing all dancing desktop it needs OEMs, IHVs,
> ISVs, and developers all looking at that user. 
> 
> --jeremy
> 
> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 12:07, charles macdonald hrdc-drhc gc ca wrote:
> > I heard a quote the other day that indicated that someone from redhat did
> not think that his product was the best desktop for consumer use, I am
> wondering where it (and the fedora system which is apparently to be the
> successor)  would fit in in an educational setting.
> > 
> > 
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"There is a lot of speculation and I guess there is going to continue to
be a log of speculation until the speculation ends." - George W. Bush on
October 18, 1998