Re: Comparison b/w Redhat and Debian....

[Kalum / Grendel <kalum delrom ro>]

On  Wed, 8 Aug 2001, ABrady commented thusly,

>
> Yeah, like choose the module for your SCSI card, one that it clearly
> offers as a choice, then watch it fail to load the every same module.
> Put all settings in, leave all settings out, change the settings to
> irrational ones, it doesn't matter. It fails to find/load the module
> without fail.

Which is why I adviced that debian be used by smoeone who has a basic
knowledge in linux, ie someone who can at least edit the etc/moudles.conf
file and put in a simple alias for his scsi card to get it working.

Something which you havent been able to do I see....;)

> That's what I call rock solid! Absolutely guaranteed to have the same
> behavior every time, across releases. Absolutely a certainty that what
> was seen 3 releases ago will still be in effect. Unfortunately, when
> that behavior is a failure to load the most important module you're
> going to need, one gets no opportunity to test this 'rock-solid' distro.

A simple alias command is all that is needed man to get it working, or at
the maximum you will have to edit 3 lines in the configuration files.

I am assuming that youa rent a newbie, which makes me wonder why you didnt
try such a simple approach....

> I suppose the fact that I downloaded the ISOs for both 7.1 and Roswell
> doesn't qualify as "free" in your eyes.

Please dont get the issues confused here, I was NOT talking about the
initial downloading of the base distro but "automatically updates
without paying a single cent", I was refering to updatability as you can
see below.

> Yes, going from one release to another can be painful. But, I'd rather
> have progress. That means some things will be discarded, some will get
> broken and can be fixed, some will work fine all along the way. If you'd
> like to stay with older libraries and binaries I have no argument with
> that.

Well here are the issues that hapenned to me when I hapenned to do a
minior version just from x.1 to x.2

1. Broken termcap entries, needless to say the result wasnt quite
appetizing or amusing

2. No matter what other MTA you have, RH allways after a "upgrade"
installs that monstrosity sendmail by default, it almost makes you think
that RH have a vested interest in forcing sendmail on people. Needless to
say this is very annoying, this so called RH upgrade cost me my good MTA,
and I had to get rid of sendmail and start from the beginning.

etc etc...........

> I sumbit that any distro that makes a major leap in, say, glibc
> libraries, will suffer the same problem. Not everything will weather
> that change well.

Well debian, mandrake seem to do it well dont they :P Why is it only that
RH has the problems, and worse still they havent learned, they had the
same problems since there 5.x releases and they still havent learned.

One reason why debian performs exellently is because dpkg (its package
manager is technically vastly superior to RPM) so it is better when
upgrading packages.

> Some can be recompiled and used. Others require a
> rewrite of the code. The person/people working on that code are the
> responisble parties for it, though in many instances others are free to
> make the necessary changes themselves. Not everyone releasing a new
> release has the time to go over and rewrite everything to make sure it
> carries over to the new release. I submit no release will carry 100%
> over for that very reason.

Agreed, but it is RH which makes the most mess out of the distros that I
have tried when it comes to upgrading to anohter majopr/minor release, so
much so that I have given up on upgrading to releases, I just download the
new iso, backup my old /etc, and /usr/local and /root and /home and
install the new thingy and restore the old dirs...

> > >  And who are the everyones that agree Mandrake is best?
> >
> > Could you please tell me why you say that mandrake is not better than
> > RH,
> > IMHO it is the best because,
>
> Because your opinion says it is means nothing to me. My opinion says it
> isn't. Whatcha gonna do about it?

Nothing except say that you are missing a good thing :)

> > 1. It has newer software (and we know how important staying updated
> > with
> > new software is in the rapidly changing free software scene). For
> > example
> > just comapre the difference between the KDE in RH's latest and mandake
> > 8.0
> > and you will see what I mean.
>
> Who needs KDE as proof of anything? If I like KDE, I go get the latest.

Downloading huge amounts of MB's is not practical for most of the people
on the internet who dont have high speed connections. That is why they
purchase shrink wrapped cd's to install, and for them if mandrake has the
newer software at the ame period in time then they will and should go for
it.


> You're outta your gourd!
>I've been using up2date since it was first
> released and haven't paid a single penny for its use. I've checked as
> many as 3 times a week for updates and never once did anybody refuse me
> or send me a bill!
>
> It's helpful, when making comparisons, that you have just a small clue
> about that which you write/speak!

It is also helpful before you howl if you first read the relevant docs, it
is YOU who doesnt have a clue about what you are speking so I will take
great pleasure in directing you to
<http://www.redhat.com/products/network/service_changes.html>

Where it says,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Red Hat now charging for software updates?

  No. On March 16 Red Hat discontinued anonymous access to Red Hat Network
through the Update Agent (up2date). You now have two choices for free
software updates:
    if you register with Red Hat Network, you get a free subscription to
Software Manager for one system and can use Update Agent with your RHN
username on that system.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So my dear it means that if you dont fork out thoe expensive $$$$$ you can
only update ONE computer free of charge, which makes it virtually useless
for most people (for sysadmins and home users who have more than one pc).
again see below....

______________________________________________________________________
How is the free trial different?
  Previously, you could receive a basic level of service free up to five
systems. Starting February 26, you can try the full version of Software
Manager for free, but only on one system.
_______________________________________________________________________

So have fun upgrading only one computer only without paying dollars,
remember according to RH if you have 2 computers you cant update them
freely , only one computer is permitted, if you are doing otherwise you
are breaking the law and  can be arrested :) Hmm...why does this whole
story sound like Microsoft tactics ;)


> > 4,lastly  Mandrakes installation is probably the most newbie friendly
> > one,
> > even a monkey should eb able to install Mandrake 8.0, it is so easy
> > and
> > intuitive.
>
> So, if I ever need a monkey to install linux for me, I'll go get
> Mandrake for him to try.

It looks like you yourself might qualify for this regard considering the
statements you made, and also the puzzling inability for you to configure
a scsi card to get it working (no matter what the distro is) ;)

> Opinions are like...well, we know what opinions are like, and that
> everybody has one. They're totally relevant to the person owning them ,
> and may even influence others to follow in a certain direction. But,
> they can't all be right and can't all be relevant.

Agreed, but I backed my opinions with facts, which makes them take a
different issue altogether.

> So, who are we to believe? I believe me because I know what I like and
> what has failed for me. I know what is impossible to work with and what
> I can begin configuring and using in a few minutes.

I am assuming that you are a sysadmin with more than a average idea of
configuring linux, and yes many of you guys need things which work out of
the box, unlike us hackers who can afford to tinker with a distro for a
few days to get it tailored to our needs you need something which works
immediately.

Well RH 7.1 too was unable to detect or configure my epson stylus 680, or
my USb scanner asus Scan 2 web 3300u, which I had do myself, spending a
lot of time (it took over 3 days searching google etc) so RH is not good
in this department too for everyone.

<http://www.thedukeofurl.org/reviews/misc/slackware80/printable.shtml>

In the bottom of the page you will find links to his highly respected
reviews of RH 7.1 mandrake 8.0, slackware 8.0 etc....


Best Wishes,
Grendel


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