Re: Correction to "More on Alas and Alack'

[Greg Julius <fromVendorList outtacyte com>]

At 01:09 PM 1/30/03, you wrote:

<SNIP> refer to the previous post for long text.

> (And please excuse the sulfurous smell. I had an itch behind one horn, and 
> ended up stabbing myself in the cloven foot with my pointed tail. It ain't 
> easy being Satan's spawn...)


Being a newbie, and a long time disgusted user of Microsoft stuff, I have 
to admit the Linux users are a bit twitchy when it comes to comments and 
opinions that might possibly maybe be construed to be less than glowing.

Before you read any further, I am on the side of Linux.  I am against 
Microsoft.  But we (the Linux community) must address the issues the public 
is asking in a reasoned and thoughtful manner.  We must not behave like 
petulant teenage sophomores and react with name-calling and denial.  It 
doesn't help the teenagers and it won't help us.

For instance, I made a comment about a week into my Linux foray that Linux 
clearly wasn't ready for the average user desktop due to problems and 
support issues.  Mind I was talking about the desktop and not as a 
server.  The rest of the comments below are related to the desktop.  My 
comment was not meant to be a criticism but an observation on the current 
state of affairs.  I received some fairly negative responses (perhaps not 
as bad as the author of the articles in question :) ).

As Linux (all the various flavors) gains ground in the public at large, we 
will start to see the manufacturers paying attention and providing more 
support in the way of drivers and such.  This is a good thing and spells 
trouble for Microsoft.  You can bet that Microsoft is having behind the 
firewall discussions with the Head Honchos of Computer Manufacturing 
companies about this very topic.  If 90% of your business is with machines 
using Microsoft OS, 5% is with Mac, and 5% is *nix oriented - whom do you 
pay attention to?  As our percentage grows so will manufacturer 
amenability.  To say it isn't fair is a petulant reaction and just doesn't 
own up to reality.

That Linux has bugs isn't news to me.  I've spent the last month watching 
various gnome applications die just because I clicked in the wrong spot 
while doing something.  I've had the XFree86 just upchuck a few times for 
some strange reason.  Why is it that the world isn't flocking to the 2.4.20 
kernel yet?  Why is XFree86 sitting on the 4.2.99.3 release so long?  Mr. 
Langa's points are valid and they are public perception.  We can be in 
denial or we can be proud that we have an organization that is growing, 
meeting more needs, producing more and more complex software, and provides 
bug fixes fairly rapidly.  And we are doing it without becoming like 
Microsoft.  We do it because we are proud of the system and the community.

The Linux problem isn't bugs or patches, it's ease of use.  Does the 
installation and use need to become more idiot friendly?  That is patently 
obvious just watching this list.  Some of the same stuff over and over.  If 
Linux wants to gain ground in the public at large these issues must be 
eliminated (well, at least addressed).  And it is only as we gain ground in 
the public at large will manufacturers supply things we need (like drivers 
and such).

Is the Linux community dedicated? - Clearly Yes.  This forum / mail list is 
an example of that.  Are they helpful? - Clearly Yes.  Again this list is 
an example of that.  Does the community try to resolve issues as fast as it 
can?  Yes.

Are there bugs?  Certainly.  And if finding bugs in code due to arcane/new 
combinations of hardware and software is a measure of usage density, then 
Linux is making headway.  That there are bug patches isn't a bad thing - it 
means that dedicated people are creating more software and more people are 
using it in strange ways and more fixes are being provided.  Kind of like 
having to build a new sanctuary at church because all the folks don't fit 
in any more.

<soapbox>
The next biggest hurdle that Linux has to make inroads into the public at 
large is ease of use.  It is not good to say "Those lazy @#$ should learn a 
real opsys"  or "RTFM" or "Get smart or get lost."  That is not going to 
win the public opinion wars.  Most people are buying and using a computer 
to get something done that they feel a computer can help with.  It might be 
anything from personal use software to corporate applications.  If Linux 
doesn't grow beyond people like me who like messing around with computers 
for the sake of messing around with computers, then Linux will NEVER break 
into the public at large.  The public at large doesn't give a rip about 
many of the issues that we feel are important.  Their only question is, 
Does it help me get my job done more easily than I can do it now?  What is 
the cost/benefit return on this thing?  Until we can make good answers to 
that that the public accepts (despite our opinions of those answers) the 
public at large won't abandon Microsoft for Linux.  They just don't see the 
value of it.

Using my experience in regards to user friendly,  I bought current hardware 
for my system to begin my foray into Linux.  Not leading edge but stuff 
that had been out for well over a year.  I bought RH 8.0 Pro (the latest so 
I would have the latest drivers and such for my system).  GAWD what a mess.

The first/biggest problem was with my video after boot. Turns out that I 
have an 845G chipset in my motherboard.  I needed to install XFree86 to 
build the driver.  No rpms for what I needed.  Not even a tarball.  While I 
did find binaries that might possibly have worked, because I had GCC 3.2 
and the binaries were compiled with 2. something and because of the 
warnings about glibc (which I still don't understand and which may not have 
been a problem) I didn't think they were a fit.  I never did find a binary 
(i830.o) that I could simply drop into my system.  That left source.  I had 
to figure out CVS.  That was 8 hours of download on a DSL.  Then I discover 
that I needed the 2.4.19 or better kernel for that.  Now I had to install a 
kernel which wasn't available as an rpm except a beta one or which wasn't 
expected to compile with GCC 3.2.  So I started looking for an older 
compiler.  Then I needed libpng.  Then I needed zlib.  All in all that 
foray ended up bollixing the system so bad that I simply 
re-installed.  This time I installed EVERY cotton-picking piece of 
Development anything I could find.  Because next to nothing was working yet 
I lost the CVS download and the kernel.  So I created a vfat32 partition 
that I could stick stuff on from Linux so I wouldn't have to do that 
again.  Downloaded the kernel.  Installed it.  It wouldn't compile.  After 
several days of trying to figure it out, I found the directive in the 
config file and removed it for the offending item - by hand.  It finally 
compiled and I finally got it installed.  Working like a champ.  Then I had 
to download the CVS tree for the 4.2.99.3 again (another 8 hours gone).  I 
had some problems with the compile, but overcame them.  The hardest part 
was making sense of the documentation and instructions.  Then I was able to 
build the driver.  I installed it according to the instructions and...

It still didn't work.

Turned out that the installation software chose a horizontal refresh based 
upon (correctly identifying my monitor) who knows what criteria.  Nobody 
thought it was the refresh rate because it would start the first time after 
a boot, just not subsequent times.

That was not user friendly.  That's not even counting the problems with 
Configuring everything I wanted to use with techy type 
documentation.  Samba, Network.  I still haven't finished with the CD-RW 
yet.  The printer is a paperweight to Linux.

Now compare that experience to installing XP Pro on the same box:
I bought XP Pro the same day I bought the hardware and RH 8.0.  I put the 
box together (roll your own).  Stuck in the XP CD and within an hour I had 
the system running and within two hours had everything working.  Video, 
Printer, Network, USB ports and the CD-RW.  The only problem I had was with 
the CD-RW.  It correctly handled the power management features, I was 
visible on the network. I could see and be seen by all of the other 
machines on the network and I was connected to the NT server and sharing files.

I started on this project Dec. 24, 2002.  And I'm still not done with the 
Linux box.  The comparison for the public at large is between 2 hours on 
the Microsoft side and, let's say, 360 hours (a month) on the Linux 
side.  Not counting the frustration, cursing, and spouse abuse.  So, from 
the public at large viewpoint, a month doesn't compare well to two 
hours.  Getting back to the "I only care if it helps me get my job done 
easier" question, if I value my time at $1/hr, then I used more than the 
cost of the XP Pro.  That's just counting time at a steeply discounted 
rate.  Very few are going to put up with the time, problems, frustrations 
and pain.  Linux just doesn't figure for the public at large (yet).  If it 
weren't for other reasons, Installing Linux isn't worth the time, 
frustration, and pain.

Why am I still here?  Disgust at Microsoft mostly.  While I don't have 
disgust at the Mac side of things, their monopolistic stance is much the 
same as Microsoft and if they had the market share they would probably be 
just as bad.  I don't like their intrusiveness, their high-handed ways, nor 
their pricing/licensing.  I can't afford to upgrade my NT server - I'm just 
a small business.  The .NET thing scares me as bad as the government decode 
chip thing does.  Their ability to decree you are guilty and shut you down 
gives me nightmares.  I WILL NOT put my servers on their software 
henceforth.  That's why I am still here.  But it hasn't been easy.

If you count disgust at Microsoft and their tactics as motivators - as I do 
- then you have to find enough people who are disgusted enough to want to 
face the challenge - like I am.  This may be the single largest reason 
Linux is growing outside of the server environment.  Disgust at Microsoft - 
their tactics, their FUD, their personal space invasion, their 
Money-Grubbing ways.  If Microsoft were to "reform" this disgust would 
disappear (I don't see it happening though).

To go further we must address ease of use.  Reliability isn't as big a 
problem (security is, but not uptime) as a lot of Linux folks claim for the 
average user.  That's why Microsoft gets away with the BSOD.  But even they 
are taking steps to make it reliable.  They have already taken the steps to 
make it easy.  The average user doesn't care about bloat.  Just get bigger 
hardware and no problem.  While this goes against what many feel to be 
righteous, the public at large doesn't care and won't care despite the 
intensity of our feelings.

</soapbox>