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Re: Draft proposal for using full anaconda as the default Fedora download



2011/1/21 Máirín Duffy <duffy fedoraproject org>:
> On Sat, 2011-01-22 at 02:02 +0000, inode0 wrote:
>> > Currently (and since ~Fedora 12) the default media promoted for
>> > installation of Fedora both via our website at fedoraproject.org and at
>> > conferences and other events is the Desktop Live Media ISO, delivered
>> > via pressed optical media at events, and typically delivered via
>> > home-burned optical media or live usb media created via dd,
>> > livecd-creator on the command line, or the Live USB Creator GUI (the
>> > latter the most popular for non-Linux systems.)
>>
>> I don't think this is quite a fair representation of the situation
>> when it comes to pressed media distributed at events. We don't promote
>> either as a "default" method. We have always produced far more
>> non-live media for events, usually it outnumbers all the live media by
>> 2 to 1 in North America. While some people do install from the live
>> media we really promote it as an easy way to try Fedora out, not as a
>> preferred way to install it.
>
> Fair enough. It is pressed for and distributed at events, though, which
> I think is still worth considering since it's still in the mix (and that
> may or may not be completely valid to continue doing depending on how we
> think this through...)

Well, this is what was worrying me about this discussion. I think the
live media (or some sort of live media) really has tremendous value at
events big and small. If this leads to an effort to make better live
media I'm all for it. Getting rid of live media is going to be a tough
sell to those of us who see its value.

> The website, though, absolutely promotes it as the primary method,
> intentionally so.

Yup, I see that.

> I'll rewrite this paragraph on the proposal wiki page to not make it
> seem as if its the primary thing promoted at events.

Thanks.

>> > Live Media affords some clear advantages over traditional installers,
>> > primarily in its ability to be used via USB sticks as optical drives are
>> > less ubiquitous in laptops and its singularity as one image you can
>> > try-before-you-buy to test out drivers, rescue machines, and use as a
>> > full installer. It also affords a gee-whiz factor.
>> >
>> > However, there are some serious concerns about the stability and overall
>> > user experience in promoting live media as the primary installation
>> > method of Fedora. There is also a larger concern about the future
>> > direction and maintenance of the spins project. Creating and maintaining
>> > usable live media is not a trivial task and many of our spins
>> > maintainers have understandably burnt out. Reconsidering how we deliver
>> > installation of Fedora to our end users may offer an opportunity to help
>> > this situation.
>>
>> Again, we do not promote it now as the primary installation method.
>
> Maybe at events, but it is promoted as such on the website. I'm not sure
> what % of installs originate from event-distributed media but would it
> be the majority? I think online is probably the primary distribution
> channel? (Does that seem sensical?)

I'm sure the number of installs generated by the website dwarfs the
number from media distributed at events. We probably only give out
around 6k pieces of media per release in North America so I hope other
installation sources contribute more to our user base.

>> >From the perspective of someone who has handed out such media at
>> events, if the install to hard drive option on the live media is
>> causing issues my suggestion is to remove it. The live media has great
>> value without it - it seems to be almost an afterthought anyway.
>
> I'm glad to hear this. I don't know how widely this opinion is shared
> but I hope it is.

I know other people who love installing from live media. But as I look
at the sources of value that live media brings to the table that is at
the bottom of the list.

I'll add that the biggest shortcoming of the current live media in my
opinion is that it doesn't include enough software to really showcase
Fedora in as powerful a way as it could. I would like to see us move
to live media that includes much more, perhaps as big as 2GB which
could easily accommodate a full installer being incorporated into it.

John


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