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Summary from this weeks EPEL meeting



= Meeting 20070404 =

== Attending ==

>From the Steering Committee:

 * knurd (formally known as thl)
 * mmcgrath
 * nirik
 * quaid
 * stahnma

Other contributors that joined the meeting:

 *  rdieter, smooge

== Summary ==

 * chairmen:  stahnma (who was one of the two that were proposed for the
job) suggested to make knurd (the other one) become the organizational
leader . knurd suggested to make stahnma kind of "vice-president" so
there is one that will run the meetings or other stuff in case knurd is
away. Knurd further mentioned that we can always fire the chairmen at
any point if we like  to. It was a agreed to be fairest to announce that
a vote is forthcoming; so we'll try the wiki vote for that.

 * mass rebuild for RHEL5 : we do what was discussed in the past
already. All arch packages that were not build against RHEL5 final will
be mass-rebuild. Knurd will take care of that; that includes announcing
that plan and doing the actual cvs updates and built requests.

 * shortcut for branching -- dgilmore was not around, so topic was skipped

 * Communication plan for enterprise customers/ISVs/IHVs -- stahnma: "I
have been waiting to get more packages into the repo "; some more
discussion around this; we revisit that in a later meeting

 * under that topic there were some discussion about co-maintainership
and writing a template-mail that EPEL contributors could use to ask
Fedora Contributors  if they want to maintain their packages in EPEL;

 * what is in the way of EPEL repo opening / when's our announcement?
(topic came up during the meeting): knurd gave this list:

   * finish the rebuild
   * final repo layout
   * finish the wiki (e.g. remove the not-finished warnings)
   * make sure everything works
   * announce

  bodhi might be helpful or even needed for the final repo layout; bodhi
might make formal QA policies (smooge raised that topic and will see if
he can get something written up regarding QA polices) possible as well.
bodhi is in the process of getting finished, but no ETA yet ("hopefully
soon")

 * repotags/interaction with 3rd party repos ; people want to get rid of
that topic, but we have to face it. See full log (starting at 0:39) for
details. knurd will try to get that topic discussed again on the list to
get opinions how to mopve on from Contributors inside or outside of EPEL.


== Full Log ==

{{{
00:00            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL meeting
00:00 <       knurd> | ping stahnma quaid mmcgrath nirik dgilmore --
who's around?
00:01              * | stahnma is here
00:01 <    mmcgrath> | I'm here
00:02 <    mmcgrath> | also working on the merge though so I'll be a
litle quiet
00:02 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, thx for your work on the merge ;-)
00:03 <       knurd> | well, three people is not much
00:03 <       knurd> | I'd say we wait 10 minutes for other to show up
00:03 <       knurd> | or cancel the meeting if no one shows up
00:03 <    mmcgrath> | we cancelled last week too.
00:03 <       quaid> | knurd: oi!
00:03 <    mmcgrath> | The list has been pretty quiet
00:03 <     stahnma> | again, I will mention that mid-day in the US is
hard to meet on
00:03 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, I know :-/
00:04              * | quaid is here and can find something to talk
about ;-D
00:04 <       knurd> | stahnma, US evenings is hard for europe
00:04 <     stahnma> | understand...maybe US early mornings?
00:04 <       knurd> | quaid, makes four people now
00:04 <     stahnma> | quarum?
00:04 <       quaid> | mid-day is the hardest when one is not allowed to
use IRC at work
00:04              * | stahnma will be in that boat soon :(
00:04 <       knurd> | stahnma, maybe
00:04 <       quaid> | s/ar/or/
00:04 <       quaid> | stahnma: :(
00:04              * | rdieter sits in the rabble seats.
00:05 <       quaid> | stahnma: what's hard is there are always ways
around, but then one is breaking the rules and that's a lame spot to be in
00:05              * | bpepple pokes his head in to look around.
00:05 <     stahnma> | yeah, that's kind of what I do now
00:05 <     stahnma> | but they are probably going to block out-bound ssh
00:05 <     stahnma> | :(
00:05 <     stahnma> | they already block outbound IRC here
00:05 <     rdieter> | use port 80. :)
00:06 <     stahnma> | right on
00:06              * | knurd would rellay like if either dgilmore or
nirik would show up
00:07 <     bpepple> | isn't dgilmore still in Australia?
00:07 <     stahnma> | no, he's back
00:07 <    mmcgrath> | He's said he won't be around much for a bit.
00:07 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, yeah, that's what I told me, too (iirc)
00:07 <     stahnma> | true, shall we commence?
00:07 <       quaid> | rock on
00:08 <       knurd> | stahnma, yeah
00:08              * | nirik is back. Was trying to get iwlwifi working.
00:08            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
chairmen
00:08              * | knurd welcomes nirik
00:08 <       knurd> | that makes five people, that should be better
than just four
00:08 <       knurd> | so, let's get started
00:09 <       knurd> | the chairmen stuff is lingering around for weeks now
00:09 <       knurd> | shall we vote one
00:09 <       knurd> | or get rid of that idea
00:09 <       knurd> | I think we agree already to have one
00:09 <       knurd> | that correct?
00:09            --> | entr0py (Bernard Johnson)  has joined
#fedora-meeting
00:09 <     stahnma> | I think we voted to have one
00:09 <       nirik> | I suppose. I like the idea of someone taking
point on organizing things...
00:10 <     stahnma> | so , I think we have knurd become the
organizational leader
00:10 <    mmcgrath> | +1 to having one
00:10 <     stahnma> | unless everyone wants to vote, I am willing to
just have knurd do it
00:10 <       knurd> | stahnma, thx for your support; do you want to be
vice-president or something like that?
00:10 <       knurd> | and run the meetings when I'm afk?
00:10 <     stahnma> | since I was the only other runner, I think it's
fine...
00:10 <     stahnma> | I can be a backup
00:10 <     stahnma> | I need no formal title
00:10            <-- | Southern_Gentlem  has left #fedora-meeting (
"Leaving")
00:11 <       knurd> | so how do we vote this?
00:11 <       knurd> | anyone else besides me then that want to run for
the chairmen job?
00:11 <       quaid> | I like this idea because stahnma presents less
controversial of a stance than knurd has, so it gives a balance.
00:12 <       quaid> | maybe stahnma can focus on the neutral ground
when we have conflicts :)
00:12 <       knurd> | and, as we discussed already, we can always fire
the chairmen at any point if we like
00:12 <       quaid> | still though ...
00:12            <-- | giallu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out))
00:12 <       quaid> | would be fairest to announce that a vote is
forthcoming
00:12 <       quaid> | and have it following the announcement
00:13 <       knurd> | quaid, sounds good
00:13 <       knurd> | wiki vote or just next meeting?
00:13 <       nirik> | yeah, perhaps give folks that can't attend a
chance to vote?
00:13 <     stahnma> | I am fine with that too, I just wnat to move on
to working on epel, not the working on the people who work on epel
00:13 <       nirik> | (or ratify, or whatever)
00:13            --- | SmootherFrOgZ__ is now known as SmootherFrOgZ
00:13 <       quaid> | well, wiki vote is ok, since an IRC vote isn't
anonymous either
00:14 <       quaid> | yeah, ratify
00:14              * | nirik also would like to see us move on to doing
things rather than talking about how we talk about doing things.
00:14 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:14 <       knurd> | k, I'll put it up in the wiki
00:14 <       quaid> | I suggest we throw up a Wiki ratification, and
move forward from this moment as if the ratification has happened; if we
have to back-track on it later, we can
00:14 <       quaid> | so, nirik +1 :)
00:15 <       knurd> | and then can get that solved over the next few
days until next weeks meeting
00:15 <     stahnma> | ok
00:15 <       nirik> | yeah, that sounds good.
00:15 <       quaid> | cool, now we can talk about what is in the way of
EPEL repo opening
00:15 <       knurd> | k; anything else regarding the chairmen stuff?
00:15            --> | smooge (Stephen J Smoogen)  has joined
#fedora-meeting
00:15 <     stahnma> | none here
00:16            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
mass rebuild for RHEL5
00:16 <       knurd> | quaid, I'll keep that in mind
00:16 <       knurd> | so, do we care about hte mass rebuild
00:16 <       knurd> | seem or do we simply ignore the rest
00:16 <       knurd> | lots of pacakges were not rebuild yet afaics
00:17 <       nirik> | we should mass rebuild all the not rebuilt arch
ones...
00:17 <       nirik> | I think we need dgilmore for that tho.
00:17 <     stahnma> | probably
00:17 <       knurd> | nirik, no, everyone can do that
00:17 <       knurd> | I can do that, as long as the buildsys is working
00:17 <       knurd> | and that might not be the case in the next days
00:18 <       nirik> | although should we put the repotag thing to bed
first?
00:18 <       knurd> | so let's say this:
00:18 <       knurd> | we give people until sunday to rebuild their arch
packages
00:18 <       knurd> | and then I'll rebuild every arch package that
didn't get build on RHEL5
00:18 <       nirik> | knurd: +1
00:18 <       knurd> | by adding a ".1" to release of them
00:19 <       knurd> | then tagging, building, done
00:19 <       knurd> | stahnma, quaid, mmcgrath, does that sound sne to
you?
00:19 <       knurd> | sane
00:19 <     stahnma> | sounds fine to me
00:19 <    mmcgrath> | Yeah that seems reasonable.
00:20 <       knurd> | that makes 4 +1 (including mine)
00:20            --> | cweyl_ (Chris Weyl)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:20              * | knurd will wait 15 seconds for quaid's opinion
before moving on
00:20            --- | cweyl_ is now known as cweyl|work
00:20 <       knurd> | k, settled even without quaid
00:20 <       quaid> | good for me :)
00:20 <       knurd> | hah
00:20 <       knurd> | makes 5 x +1
00:21 <       knurd> | settled
00:21 <       knurd> | anything else regarding the rebuild?
00:21            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
shortcut for branching -- dgilmore?
00:21 <       knurd> | dglimore not around, skipping
00:21            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
Communication plan for enterprise
00:21            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
Communication plan for enterprise customers/ISVs/IHVs -- stahnma, quaid
00:21 <       knurd> | any news on that one?
00:22 <     stahnma> | not much.  I have been waiting to get more
packages into the repo
00:22 <       knurd> | k
00:22 <     stahnma> | right now, not a ton of value lives inside of
epel from a customer prospective
00:22 <    mmcgrath> | A plan is good
00:22 <    mmcgrath> | but we need to focus on being live first :)
00:22 <     stahnma> | identifying the packages in core and not rhel was
good
00:22 <    mmcgrath> | when's our announcement?
00:22 <       knurd> | stahnma, shall we revisit it in four weeks or so?
00:22 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, I'll make that the next topic
00:22 <    mmcgrath> | <nod>
00:22 <     stahnma> | well, I think we could bring it up each week,
just might be quick :)
00:23 <       knurd> | stahnma, okay, we'll see
00:23 <       knurd> | I'll move on now
00:23 <     stahnma> | I would like to get a template for us requested
packages to branched
00:23 <     stahnma> | from othe rextras developers
00:23 <       quaid> | yeah, I've recently gained what little authority
I need to approach more folks in RH, such as Marketing, so that helps
00:24            --- | dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone
00:24              * | quaid is always two lines beind, it seems :)
00:24 <       knurd> | stahnma, that what the " shortcut for branching"
was meant for
00:24 <     stahnma> | ahh
00:24              * | stahnma didn't quite realize that's what that was
00:24 <       knurd> | stahnma, we need somethign easy for CVS admins
and Fedora Contributors
00:24 <       knurd> | to request EPEL branches
00:24 <       quaid> | request or request to maintain?
00:24 <     stahnma> | we also need to know who won't for whatever
request epel branches and find co-maintainers
00:25 <       knurd> | quaid, request
00:25 <       quaid> | ah, and its up to the maintainer to say if they
don't want to maintain one
00:25 <       quaid> | which then opens up a co-maintainer to come in
and do it?
00:25 <       quaid> | is the concern people feeling co-maintainers
forced upon them?
00:25 <       quaid> | "I don't want a team, I work best alone"
00:26 <       knurd> | quaid, then the contributor has to take care of epel
00:26 <       knurd> | he can't stop a co-maintainer if he doesn't want
to do epel himself
00:26 <       knurd> | that was decided by FESCo in the past already iirc
00:26 <       knurd> | and is part of the co-maintainer policy
00:26 <       quaid> | ok, just making sure I got the distinction right,
thx
00:27              * | quaid approves, it makes sense; after all
upstream can't stop us from packaging for Fedora, right?
00:27 <       knurd> | stahnma, writing a "do you want to maintain your
pakage foo in EPEL" template mail might be helpful
00:27 <       knurd> | stahnma, was that what you were up to?
00:27 <       knurd> | then I#d say: just go for it and put it in the wiki
00:27 <     stahnma> | yeah
00:28 <       knurd> | stahnma, to
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/ContributorStatus properly
00:28 <       knurd> | that makes most sense afaics
00:28              * | knurd will move on to next topic soon if that
okay for everyone
00:29 <    mmcgrath> | <nod>
00:29            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
what is in the way of EPEL repo opening / when's our announcement?
00:29 <       knurd> | my 2 cent:
00:29 <       knurd> | - finish the rebuild
00:29 <       knurd> | - final repo layout
00:30 <       knurd> | - finish the wiki (e.g. remove the not-finished
warnings)
00:30 <       knurd> | - make sure everything works
00:30 <       knurd> | - annouce
00:30 <       knurd> | - <profit>
00:30 <       knurd> | did I miss anything important?
00:30 <    mmcgrath> | Looks good to me.
00:30 <    mmcgrath> | so we're blocking heavily on dgilmore
00:30 <       knurd> | likely :-/
00:30 <       knurd> | we need a second dglimore
00:31 <    mmcgrath> | Hell we could use a more than that :)
00:31 <       knurd> | I tried cloning jeremy already, but It does not
work
00:31 <       nirik> | are we also waiting on bodi? or at least push
scripts that can do testing?
00:31 <       knurd> | I need to try better
00:31 <       knurd> | maybe then we can clone both jeremy and dgilmore
00:31 <    mmcgrath> | nirik: We're waiting on bodhi but I don't think
the announcement has to block on it.
00:31 <       knurd> | nirik, that's part of the "final repo layout"
step in my listing
00:32 <    mmcgrath> | ahh, so it is a blocker.
00:32 <    mmcgrath> | lmacken: ping?
00:32            --> | llaumgui (LLaumgui)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:32 <       knurd> | maybe we need to find a interrim solution
00:32 <       nirik> | can we now manually push to testing and only
after release people want push to release?
00:32 <       knurd> | nirik, something like that maybe, yet
00:32 <      smooge> | Do you have a plan on which EL's you are
supporting with what.. and how you are going to test beyond 'it compiles
and doesnt core dump when we run it?'
00:32 <       knurd> | yes
00:32 <       nirik> | if it can be done with current push scripts
manually for now, I think we can go on without bodi...
00:32 <       knurd> | smooge, not that I'm aware off
00:33 <       knurd> | nirik, I hope so
00:33            <-- | viking-ice  has left #fedora-meeting ( "Leaving")
00:33 <       nirik> | smooge: I don't think there is a formal qa
battery yet... but we have a criteria for what goes into testing/release
and when...
00:33 <       knurd> | smooge, want to write something?
00:34 <     lmacken> | mmcgrath: pong
00:34 <       nirik> |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/GuidelinesAndPolicies/PackageMaintenanceAndUpdates

00:35 <       knurd> | nirik, that should be a start
00:35 <       knurd> | nirik, but we probably need more formal QA
guidelines sooner or later
00:35 <       knurd> | but I tend to say it's fine if we start without them
00:35 <       nirik> | yeah, and we can add to that... like 'X number of
+1's from testers... etc'
00:36 <       nirik> | or 'any -1's from a tester, package is held until
thats addressed, or whatever.
00:36 <       knurd> | with requires bodhi afaics :-/
00:36 <   mlum_thud> | hey folks, might be off-topic; can I modify the
CVSROOT/modules file to contain more concise component aliases?  at
present, we just checkout our entire repository :o
00:36 <    mmcgrath> | lmacken: any updates on bodhi?
00:36 <   mlum_thud> | mmcgrath/f13: or should I ask someone else?
00:36 <      smooge> | knurd, I would probably hold things back at the
moment in trying to write it.. I will try to help out nirik since he/she
seems to have already doen work on it
00:36 <       knurd> | mlum_thud, #fedora-devel might be the better
channel atm
00:36 <       nirik> | smooge: I didn't do that doc, knurd did. ;)
00:36 <       knurd> | mlum_thud, or #fedora-admin
00:37 <   mlum_thud> | thanks guys.
00:37 <       knurd> | smooge, there are probalby still weeks before the
official annoucement of EPEL
00:37 <       knurd> | smooge, so we can revisit it next week
00:37 <     lmacken> | bodhi is able to {,un}push updates to
testing/final and such.  I have a test instance up at
http://publictest2.fedora.redhat.com (guest/guest), and have
semi-configured EPEL.  I still need to make sure it matches the proposed
repo layout and I need to tweak how update announcements are generated
for things other than fedora
00:37 <       knurd> | smooge, shall we?
00:37 <       knurd> | mlum_thud, thx mlum_thud
00:38 <       knurd> | lmacken, any ETA when it goes into production?
00:38 <     lmacken> | I have yet to read the
PackageMaintenanceAndUpdates policy for EPEL, so I'm not sure if it
meets it yet..
00:38 <       nirik> | lmacken: cool. you rock. ;)
00:38 <       knurd> | yeah lmacken, you rock ;)
00:38 <      smooge> | I need to write up something for CentOS qa so i
will try to make it applicable for both items.
00:38 <     lmacken> | knurd: hopefully soon.. i'm going to work on the
production instance of it tonight and later this week
00:38 <     lmacken> | thanks :)
00:38 <       knurd> | lmacken, sounds good
00:38 <       knurd> | smooge, sounds good as well :)
00:39            --> | MauricioPretto (hash)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:39 <       knurd> | k, anything else or shall I move on?
00:39            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
repotags/interaction with 3rd party repos
00:39 <      smooge> | I will also pass it by Dag to see if it can help
the forge (these are my primary focuses.. I am here to try and observe
for CentOS meeting)
00:40 <       nirik> | smooge: excellent.
00:40 <       knurd> | well, did everyone saw what I send to fedora-devel?
00:40 <       knurd> | opinions?
00:40 <    mmcgrath> | I hate that repotag has been coupled with
interactions with 3rd party repos.
00:40 <     stahnma> | I am growing quite tired of repotag-theory
00:40 <    mmcgrath> | It seems to imply if we don't use a repo tag, we
hate 3rd party repos.
00:40 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, agreed...
00:41 <       knurd> | stahnma, +1
00:41 <       nirik> | I think repotags are a poor answer for something
that should be fixed in yum/rpm
00:41 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:41 <      smooge> | I will put in a different point of view on
interactions with 3rd party repos.
00:41 <       nirik> | I suppose repotags could be just done now to make
other repos happy and we can remove them later when yum/rpm can get fixed?
00:42 <     lmacken> | (whoever just tried pushing update in bodhi: i
had to wipe out the updates-stage earlier today due to space issues, so
it probably didn't work :)
00:42 <       knurd> | nirik, that was part of my plan I send to
fedora-devel
00:42 <       nirik> | knurd: right.
00:42 <      smooge> | This may be the rent money of other people... and
people get extremely defensive about when their next paycheck is involved.
00:42 <       knurd> | wwthe question is: do we want to discuss the plan
further?
00:43 <     stahnma> | I don't *want* to, but probably we should come to
some sort of agreement
00:43 <       knurd> | well, we basically have two options
00:44 <       knurd> | a) stick to "no repotags"
00:44 <       knurd> | b) evaluate them again, in the hope to find a
solution htat makes people happy
00:44 <      smooge> | c) work on an upstream technical fix to yum/rpm
00:44 <       knurd> | I'd really like to go for "a", but nevertheless I
prefer "b" for now
00:44 <       knurd> | smooge, that's part of "b" for me ;-)
00:45 <       knurd> | as we can those fixes only in for future dists
00:45 <       nirik> | it's likely gonna be a while before we could get
yum/rpm fixed. ;(
00:45 <       knurd> | nirik, that, too
00:45 <    mmcgrath> | I vote A).  I don't think this is worth any more
of our time.
00:45 <       knurd> | a=1 b=1
00:46 <       knurd> | stahnma, quaid, nirik ?
00:46 <       knurd> | or someone from the rabble seats?
00:46 <       knurd> | or shall I simply ask on the list?
00:46 <       nirik> | well, I think b) is really: do them now, and then
perhaps someday remove them.
00:47 <       knurd> | nirik, agreed
00:47 <       nirik> | I would have to say A) as well... this is a big
energy sapping discussion that keeps going on and on...
00:47            <-- | mether has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer))
00:47 <      smooge> | Rabble-rouser 0.1 vote for B. Not because of
whining, but because it was an unwritten rule of the playground before
everyone took their balls home
00:47 <       nirik> | I would be ok with asking on the list and saying:
vote. +1 or -1.
00:48 <       nirik> | (to try and bypass further discussion)
00:48 <     stahnma> | hmm
00:48 <     stahnma> | I vote c
00:48 <       knurd> | c?
00:48 <       knurd> | stahnma, you mean "work on an upstream technical
fix to yum/rpm
00:48              * | entr0py still likes the idea of stuffing the
information in the Vendor tag
00:48 <       knurd> | stahnma, as I said, that part of "b" IMHO
00:49 <       knurd> | stahnma, and what I wrote to fedora-devel
00:49 <     stahnma> | oh ok
00:49            --> | mether (Rahul Sundaram)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:49 <       nirik> | well, I think we can do c) no matter what...
00:49 <     stahnma> | sorry, (half working)
00:49 <       knurd> | well, I'll get to the list with it
00:49 <     stahnma> | then I vote b -> c
00:49 <       knurd> | no vote on the list
00:49 <       nirik> | I would love to see it fixed
00:49 <       knurd> | just collecting opinions
00:49 <       knurd> | and then we'll decide
00:49 <      smooge> | If we can get yum-preferences upstream or better
documented it would help the problem from a technical point
00:49 <       knurd> | does that sound sane?
00:49 <       knurd> | yum-preferences?
00:50              * | knurd googles
00:50 <       nirik> | knurd: sounds good.
00:50 <       knurd> | google doesn't return anything useful
00:50 <      smooge> | It is a way to say I give preference to
repository X over Y. This solves the I have clamav from atrpms and it
overwrote my rpmforge one
00:50 <       nirik> | smooge: is that a theoretical plugin to do what
we want?
00:50 <       knurd> | stahnma, quaid, mmcgrath are you fine if we ask
for opinions on the list?
00:51 <     stahnma> | I am fine, but  I feel like we have done it a few
times
00:51 <      smooge> | let me get the correct name
00:51 <     stahnma> | and we have a near holy-war on
00:51 <      smooge> | sorry yum-priorities.noarch
00:51 <    mmcgrath> | I feel the same as stahnma
00:51 <       nirik> | smooge: right. It could also show 'repo X' when
something fails with a package.
00:51 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:51 <       knurd> | smooge, mmcgrath, I agree, but this has become
political
00:52 <       knurd> | the current situation is quite bad for us already
00:52 <       knurd> | maybe it will get even worse
00:52 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: quite bad for the 300+ extras developers
or the 6,7 3rd party developers?
00:52              * | quaid is fine for list opinions
00:52 <       nirik> | smooge: oh, it's exists. Way cool.
00:52 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, for the fame of epel imho
00:52 <      smooge> | mmcgrath, I doubt 300 extra developers are going
to sign up for supporting their packages for 7 years
00:54 <       knurd> | k, so how to move on?
00:54 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: whats the easiest way so that I don't have
to hear about repo tags ever again?  Add them?
00:54 <       nirik> | we have 58 in owners.epel.list
00:54 <     stahnma> | mmcgrath: probably
00:54 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, likely
00:54 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, but that will be a fight inside the
Fedora fenceline, too
00:54 <       knurd> | I assume
00:55            --- | stickster is now known as stickster_afk
00:55 <     stahnma> | if it adds no burden to a packager, I guess I
don't see what the complaining is about
00:55 <    mmcgrath> | I'm just tired of playing politics with people
who are trying to define what rules we play by even though they don't
honor our rules.
00:55 <       knurd> | stahnma, "no burden" is important IMHO
00:55 <    mmcgrath> | I mean hell, how many of those 3rd party repos
have even signed a cla?
00:55 <    mmcgrath> | We're aiming much larger then they are and we
have a much different structure as a result.
00:56 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, I don't think such words help to solve
the problems at hand; they might make them worse...
00:56 <    mmcgrath> | I'm not a politician.  I'm a technician.
00:56 <       knurd> | :-)
00:57 <       knurd> | so, what do to
00:57 <    mmcgrath> | I'll obstain.
00:57 <       knurd> | a) discuss next week again
00:57 <       knurd> | b) ask the list
00:57 <       knurd> | c) ?
00:57 <     stahnma> | boo for a
00:57 <     stahnma> | perhaps just add them until the techincal problem
is solved
00:57 <     stahnma> | so, yeah ask list
00:57 <     stahnma> | I guess
00:57              * | stahnma really wants this battle over
00:57 <      smooge> | why is there a problem? Egos, identity, and
paycheck/livelihood.
00:57 <       knurd> | stahnma, that's not so easy and will be a bit or
work, too
00:58 <       knurd> | +1 for b btw
00:58 <       knurd> | then let's see how things envolve over the next days
00:58 <       knurd> | and then we'll see how to move on
00:58 <     stahnma> | knurd: true, I feel like this is stopping a lot
of progress.  Maybe it's just my feelings, but I  would love to get past
this and start working on good stuff
00:58 <       knurd> | does that sound sane?
00:58 <     stahnma> | sure does
00:58 <       knurd> | stahnma, +1
00:58 <    mmcgrath> | it's a distraction, nothing more.
00:59 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, maybe, but we have to deal with it afaics
00:59 <       knurd> | it was forced on us
00:59 <       nirik> | if we are going to add them, we should before the
mass rebuild.. so we don't have to rebuild again.
00:59 <       nirik> | so decision from list before sunday?
00:59 <       knurd> | k, I'll go to the list then over the next few
days with it if nobody yells soon
00:59 <       knurd> | nirik, that's impossible
00:59 <     stahnma> | nirik strikes with logic
01:00 <       knurd> | we need buy in from FPC and other groups if we
want to add repotags
01:00 <       knurd> | that might take *weeks*
01:00 <      smooge> | actually, I would say you forced it on yourself.
Repositories are as much like distributions. People choose their 'flags'
and stick with them
01:00 <       knurd> | nirik, and the rebuild is about arch packages only
01:00 <     stahnma> | even if we decide to do it, won't fpc or fesco
just remove it?
01:00 <     stahnma> | or likely remove it?
01:00 <       knurd> | stahnma, It's a decisions EPEL, FESCo, and FPD
need to do together afaics
01:01 <       knurd> | mabye we even need the board
01:01 <     stahnma> | I guess, if the EPEL people are not empowered to
make it, can we have the pro-repotaggers take it up there
01:01 <     stahnma> | and allow epel to progess?
01:01 <     stahnma> | I am asking becuase I don't quite understand the
inner-workings of who is authoritative over whom on what issues
01:02 <       knurd> | stahnma, we have no real pro-repotaggers besides
thimm
01:02 <     stahnma> | well, there are others on list
01:02 <       knurd> | most of them are outside of fedora
01:02 <     stahnma> | jsut not on the epel SIG committiee
01:02 <     stahnma> | ah
01:02 <    mmcgrath> | but none that own any packages.
01:02              * | knurd has to leave in less than three minutes
01:03 <       knurd> | so, shall I go to the list with it asking for
opinions?
01:03 <       knurd> | +1 for list from me
01:03 <     stahnma> | yes
01:03 <       nirik> | sure, but at some point I would really like a
decision to "stick" so we don't have to keep discussing each week. ;)
01:03              * | mmcgrath wonders what we could have gotten one in
the last many weeks.
01:03 <       knurd> | nirik, +100
01:04 <       knurd> | k, I'll go to the list then
01:04 <       knurd> | anything else?
01:04              * | knurd will close the meeting in 30
01:04 <      smooge> | ok here is a hypothetical question
01:05              * | knurd will close the meeting in 15
01:05 <    mmcgrath> | smooge: ?
01:05 <      smooge> | never mind
01:05 <       knurd> | smooge, sorry, let's close the meeting now
01:05              * | nirik adds a RFE to the repoman review about
supporting plugins and priorities.
01:05 <       knurd> | smooge, but feel free to share your opinion
01:05 <       knurd> | I have to leave now
01:05 <       knurd> | stahnma, can you close the meeting maybe?
01:05 <       knurd> | I'll write the minutes
01:05 <     stahnma> | if I knew how to close I would (I'm new here)
01:06 <       nirik> | smooge: also, feel free to continue discussions
in #epel... usually a number of folks there lurking.
01:06 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
01:06              * | knurd will close the meeting in 15
01:06            --- | knurd has changed the topic to:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel --
Meetings often get logged -- see schedule in the wiki for next meeting
01:06 <       knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end
}}}


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