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Log from EPEL SIG meeting 20070509



Hi!

Find below the full log of this weeks EPEL meeting. I plan to send it
separately of the summary in the future and will try to send it
immediately after the meeting so everyone who wants knows what up right
in time.

I'll of course will continue to write summaries, but that often takes
some days, as real life comes in the my way often -- especially as I
leave the keyboards often right after the meeting.

Hope that acceptable for everyone.

CU
knurd

00:02 <       nirik> | epel meeting?
00:03              * | knurd will be around soon
00:03 <     stahnma> | here...but on phone
00:03              * | knurd on the telphone
00:03              * | dgilmore is here
00:03              * | knurd got gid of the phone now
00:03 <       nirik> | ok.
00:03 <       nirik> | pesky phones.
00:03            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL meeting --
init phase
00:03 <       knurd> | hi everyone;
00:03 <       knurd> | who's around?
00:04              * | dgilmore
00:04            <-- | warren has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:04            <-- | jeremy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:04              * | stahnma
00:04 <       knurd> | Sorry, I missed again to post the meeting topics
beforehand
00:04 <       knurd> | I plan to update the schedule in the wiki later today
00:04 <       knurd> | and create a topic list there
00:04 <       knurd> | so it's a bit easier to handle
00:04              * | nirik is here
00:04 <    dgilmore> | brb  need to add ram to machine
00:05 <       knurd> | quaid, won't be around today
00:05 <       knurd> | mmcgrath is on the summit and will likely miss
the meeting as well
00:05 <       knurd> | so that makes only four people today
00:06 <       knurd> | from the steering committee
00:06              * | mmcgrath actually lurks a bit for the buildsys
outage.
00:06 <       knurd> | so, let's start
00:06            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
chairmen
00:07 <       knurd> | well, seems I've lost or won -- depending on how
people look at it
00:07 <       knurd> | I'll put that info in the wiki somewhere
00:08 <     stahnma> | brb
00:08 <     stahnma> | cluster work
00:08 <       knurd> | do we want to keep the "Steering Committee
Chairmen" section on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/SteeringCommittee  ?
00:08            --> | warren (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:09 <       knurd> | anyone?
00:09 <       nirik> | knurd: sure.
00:09 <       nirik> | I think you have basically been doing those
things anyhow... ;)
00:09 <       knurd> | k; I'll leave it there then
00:09 <       knurd> | we can always revisit that later if we want to
00:10 <       knurd> | moving on
00:10            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL meeting --
thimm leaving
00:10            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL meeting --
thimm leaving -- vacant seat in the Steering Committee
00:10            --> | aalamC (A S Alamwala community)  has joined
#fedora-meeting
00:11              * | nirik is sorry to see him leave, even tho he
didn't always agree with him.
00:11 <       knurd> | well, I really would have liked it if thimm would
be around, but leaving is his decision
00:11 <       nirik> | did any of the suggested folks reply to you about
stepping up knurd ?
00:11            <-- | Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <->
irc.freenode.net quits: giallu
00:11 <       knurd> | nirik, nope, none of them
00:12 <       nirik> | might ask on the list? anyone with epel
packages/interest that wants to help and can make the meetings?
00:12 <       knurd> | maybe
00:12 <       knurd> | any suggestion from here?
00:12 <       knurd> | I'm fine with silug; he has quite a lot of
packages in EPEL afaics
00:12 <       knurd> | rdieter is in Board, FESCo and FPC already
00:13 <       knurd> | nirik, maybe it's better to ask those thimm
proposed in a private mail?
00:13 <       nirik> | oh yeah... did you mail them? or just wait to
hear after thimm's email?
00:14 <       knurd> | I just waited
00:14 <       knurd> | I'll mail them directly, that should help
00:14 <       knurd> | anyone else we'd like to see in the steering
committee?
00:14 <       knurd> | otherwise i'll mail those five thimm suggested
00:14 <       knurd> | and then we'll choose one in the next meeting
00:15 <       nirik> | that sounds like a good way to start.
00:15 <       knurd> | k
00:15 <     stahnma> | ok back
00:15 <       knurd> | anything else regarding this topic?
00:15            --> | giallu (Gianluca Sforna)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:16              * | knurd moves on
00:16            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
mass rebuild for RHEL5
00:16 <       knurd> | done afaics
00:16              * | nirik saw that knurd did some checkins/builds sunday
00:16 <       nirik> | excellent.
00:16 <       knurd> | I rebuild all arch pacakges that were not rebuild yet
00:16 <       knurd> | I didn't touch the noarch ones
00:16 <       knurd> | that should suffice afaics
00:16 <       nirik> | yeah, I think so.
00:16 <     stahnma> | sounds good to me
00:16            <-- | Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <->
irc.freenode.net quits: giallu
00:16 <       knurd> | k
00:17            --> | Netsplit Over - Joins: giallu
00:17 <       knurd> | I'll send a "if you waited for a start signal to
build you packages for epel then this is it" mail to fedora-maintainers
over the next few days
00:17 <     stahnma> | great
00:17 <       knurd> | as discussed in earlier meetings
00:17 <       nirik> | cool.
00:17 <     stahnma> | I got responses like that from a few people I
asked about packages
00:18              * | stahnma is wanting most perl modules badly
00:18 <       knurd> | but that needs one thing:
00:18            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
shortcut for branching -- dgilmore?
00:18 <       nirik> | yeah, I got a email back from jpo (who maintains
a ton of perl modules) like that.
00:18 <       knurd> | dgilmore, your around?
00:18 <     stahnma> | me too, same guy :)
00:18 <       knurd> | nirik, jpo added himself to the SIG afaics
00:18 <       knurd> | will he build his packages for EPEL?
00:18 <       nirik> | yeah, he is waiting for official announce,
rebuild with final 5 done, and perl-Module-Build
00:18 <     stahnma> | he said once it was officially opne
00:18 <     stahnma> | yeah, what nirik said
00:18 <       knurd> | k
00:19 <       knurd> | sounds great
00:19 <       nirik> | he has around 150 packages.
00:19 <       knurd> | but people like him will branch a lot of packages
00:19 <       knurd> | they need a shortcut
00:19 <       knurd> | dgilmore has a script afaik
00:19 <       nirik> | yeah.
00:19 <       knurd> | but I don#t know what informations he needs for
that script
00:19 <       knurd> | I need them for my "start now" mail
00:19 <     stahnma> | hmm
00:19 <     stahnma> | maybe username and any packages to exclude
00:20              * | knurd afk for 1 minute
00:20 <     stahnma> | otherwise branch all of that owner's pacakges?
00:20 <       nirik> | or username and list of packages to branch
00:20            --- | couf_afk is now known as couf
00:21 <       knurd> | i thought we use something similar as in the past
on the cvssync page
00:21 <       knurd> | e.g.
00:22 <       knurd> | foo bar EL-5 foobar baz this that
00:22 <       knurd> | foo bar EL-4 foobar baz
00:22 <       knurd> | well, we don#t get much further without dgilmore here
00:22 <       knurd> | I'll move on
00:22 <     stahnma> | that's fine for me also
00:22 <     stahnma> | k
00:22 <       knurd> | and try to find a solution with him later
00:22 <       nirik> | yeah, he can answer that when people need it.
00:23            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
repotags/interaction with 3rd party repos
00:23 <       knurd> | sorry, I did not find time to look into this further
00:23 <       knurd> | I'm still unsure myself what do to about it
00:23 <       knurd> | any suggestions?
00:23 <       knurd> | anyone willig to drive this task?
00:23 <       nirik> | yeah, the problem is that we can't keep
discussing it forever.
00:24 <       knurd> | or shall we simply put out feed down?
00:24 <       nirik> | we decided no repotags. I suppose it can be
revistied, but I don't know if there is really any new info...
00:24 <       knurd> | feet
00:24 <       nirik> | down the road we really need yum to handle
showing what repo packages are from
00:24 <       nirik> | with conflicts, etc
00:24 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:25 <       nirik> | we could do repotags now to paste over the
problem, but I'm not sure how much it really helps.
00:25 <       knurd> | well, shall I mention a "if you really want
repotags speak now or we will continue without them" in this weeks summary?
00:25 <       nirik> | also, there isn't a good way to automagically add
them.
00:25 <       knurd> | and then see what happens over the week
00:26 <       knurd> | and then decide next week
00:26 <       knurd> | nirik, exactly;
00:26 <     stahnma> | haven't we already had this discussion?
00:26 <       knurd> | if we wanted them we would have a hard time to
get them approved by the FPC as well
00:26 <       knurd> | stahnma, likely :-/
00:26 <       knurd> | that why I'm asking if we really want to put our
feet down
00:27 <     stahnma> | I mean, we either decided or we didn't
00:27 <       nirik> | many times.
00:27 <       knurd> | k
00:27 <     stahnma> | I would like to see them, but I am not going to
say it's the end of the world without them
00:27 <       nirik> | you can add a note and see if any of the folks
who want them come up with a new compelling argument.
00:27 <       knurd> | nirik, k, will do that
00:27 <       knurd> | then we can see what happens over the week
00:27 <       knurd> | and finally decide next week
00:28 <       knurd> | k?
00:28 <       nirik> | well, rather I would say we will see if we need
to revisit it, I think we already did decide.
00:28            --> | jeremy (Jeremy Katz)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:28 <     stahnma> | can we have the "official open" notice until the
repo-tag issue is settled?
00:28 <     stahnma> | I mean, if it's going to require a rebuild of
everything again...that woudl be bad
00:28 <       nirik> | I suppose we could just not move forward and wait
for yum to handle multi-repo better. So sometime in 2008/2009 we could
do something. ;)
00:29 <       knurd> | stahnma, no, I'm against that
00:29 <       knurd> | stahnma, even if we decide to do repotags over
the next two weeks
00:29 <       knurd> | we would need to get them past FPC and FESCo
00:29 <     stahnma> | I think we should just move on without tags for now
00:29 <       knurd> | that might takes some weeks
00:29 <       knurd> | I don't want to wait so long
00:29 <       knurd> | stahnma, +1
00:29 <     stahnma> | and try to help Yum developers and whatnot
00:29 <       knurd> | stahnma, btw, we only open the repo for contributors
00:30 <     stahnma> | basically help find really solutions to the
problem and not  band-aids
00:30 <       knurd> | for users it will stay unannouced, but open in a
testing stage
00:30 <     stahnma> | yes
00:30 <     stahnma> | ok
00:30            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
free discussion around EPEL
00:30 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:31 <       knurd> | just FYI, I'm going through the wiki currently
00:31 <     stahnma> | is anyone concerned about the lack of package for
RHEL 4?
00:31 <     stahnma> | It's seems like RHEL 5 has many
00:31 <       knurd> | a but clean up here and there
00:31 <     stahnma> | and RHEL 4 has few
00:31 <       nirik> | I suppose we could look at cooperating with the
centos folks on their plugin:
http://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/Yum/Priorities
00:31 <     stahnma> | in business, RHEL 5 isn't deployed anywhere yet
00:31 <       knurd> | stahnma, well, we have to see how it evolves
00:31 <       knurd> | stahnma, seems some contributors only want to do
RHEL5 and later
00:31 <       nirik> | there are probibly some things that won't work on
rhel4, since versions are old, etc.
00:32 <       knurd> | nirik, yeah, likely
00:32 <     stahnma> | I understand that, but we will have to see what
key packages are not there
00:32 <       knurd> | I think out main goal is RHEL5 and later
00:32 <       nirik> | yeah...
00:32 <       knurd> | RHEL4 is a bonus
00:32 <     stahnma> | ok
00:32 <       knurd> | but most people that have RHEL4 and need extras
packages might have a solution already
00:32            --> | llaumgui (LLaumgui)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:33 <     stahnma> | knurd: many yes.  Some organziation are really
just staring moves toward RHEL 4 now
00:33 <       knurd> | stahnma, well, we can ask people for more effort
in the EL4 area
00:33 <       knurd> | stahnma, do you want to try?
00:33 <       knurd> | I can mention it in my "start now" mail as well
00:33 <     stahnma> | try what?
00:33 <     stahnma> | either way is ok
00:33 <     stahnma> | I just wanted to bring up what I noticed
00:34 <       knurd> | stahnma, yeah, I noticed that as well
00:34 <     stahnma> | I agree that most RHEL 4 shops will have a
solution already
00:34              * | nirik is waiting for an el-4 branch for one of
his packages. ;)
00:34 <       knurd> | how about waiting what happens after we open it
for contrinbutors
00:34 <     stahnma> | that's fine
00:34            --> | SmootherFrOgZ (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:34 <       knurd> | and decide then if we want to encourage it more
00:35 <     stahnma> | sounds like a plan to me
00:35 <       knurd> | wregarding the wiki
00:35 <       knurd> | could one of you guys skimm over it in the next
few days?
00:35 <       knurd> | I'll do some changes later today
00:35 <     stahnma> | I'll read up on it
00:35 <       knurd> | but someone should sainity check them
00:35 <       knurd> | stahnma, thx
00:35 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:36 <     stahnma> | Have we defined the QA process?
00:36 <     stahnma> | like how we move from testing to production?
00:36 <     stahnma> | I know we've discussed it a few times
00:36 <     stahnma> | is it documented
00:36 <     stahnma> | so I can educate myself on it
00:36 <       nirik> | I thought it was on the wiki...
00:37 <       knurd> | stahnma, there is something about it on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/GuidelinesAndPolicies/PackageMaintenanceAndUpdates
00:37 <     stahnma> | (see that's why I need to read-up on the wiki ;) )
00:37 <       knurd> | in short:
00:37 <       knurd> | everything gets into testing first
00:37 <       knurd> | and into the proper repo with the next quarterly
update
00:37 <       knurd> | security updates of course go to the proper repo
as well
00:38 <       knurd> | how we make that rechnically work remains to be seen
00:38 <       knurd> | but it shound't be to hard to realize afaics
00:38 <       nirik> | yeah,we need approprate push scripts to do that
and/or bodhi.
00:38 <     stahnma> | ok
00:38 <     stahnma> | I guess bodhi is where I'm a rookie
00:38 <     stahnma> | it looks really neat though
00:39 <       knurd> | I'm  also not familiar with the updates script/bodhi
00:39 <       nirik> | yeah, I don't think it's ready to deploy tho
00:39 <     stahnma> | ok
00:39 <       nirik> | I think the current script dgilmore has been
using just is the extras one, so it pushes to the main repo... no testing.
00:39 <       knurd> | no yet, but we get closer; but the current
updates-syipt might suffice, too
00:40 <       knurd> | nirik, we maybe could use some tricks to get a
kind of testing repo
00:40 <       nirik> | we need to probibly modify that to do testing,
and only main repo on quarterly updates and/or if a release manager does
a security/major bugfix
00:40 <     stahnma> | ok
00:40 <     stahnma> | we will also need to update epel-release if we
actually start uses testing
00:40              * | nirik added his company mirror to mirror epel...
as did several other sites.
00:40 <     stahnma> | because right now there is not yum stuff for it
00:40 <       knurd> | stahnma, "yum stuff"?
00:40 <       nirik> | yeah, we will need to add testing (disabled)
00:41 <     stahnma> | .repo files
00:41 <       knurd> | ohh, you mean for testing?
00:41 <     stahnma> | the URL is for prod
00:41 <       nirik> | knurd: yum.repos.d/testing or updates-testing, etc
00:41 <     stahnma> | right
00:41 <       knurd> | yeah, we need that
00:41 <     stahnma> | yeah, my English lacks articulation today
00:41 <       knurd> | we need dgilmore or mmcgrath for that probably
00:41 <       knurd> | as they are familar with the buildsys and repo stuff
00:41 <       nirik> | yeah
00:41 <       knurd> | and have the permissions on the right machines
00:42 <       knurd> | does anyone want to driver that with those two?
00:42 <       knurd> | drive
00:43 <       knurd> | well, I'll put it on the schedule
00:43 <       nirik> | I can ping them, but I think they just need to be
around to do it.
00:43 <       knurd> | nirik, sounds like a start
00:43 <       nirik> | ok, will drop them an email on it. ;)
00:43 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:44              * | knurd will close the meeting in 60
00:44              * | knurd will close the meeting in 30
00:45              * | knurd will close the meeting in 10
00:45 <       knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end


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