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Log from yesterdays (20070516) EPEL-SIG meeting



find below the log from yesterdays meeting -- I'll send a summary over
the next few days.

CU
knurd


00:00            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting
-- Meeting rules at
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines --
Init process
00:00 <       knurd> | Hi everybody; who's around?
00:00              * | nirik is here.
00:00 <       knurd> | stahnma mentioned he might miss the meeting (or
parts of it)
00:01              * | dgilmore is here
00:01              * | mmcgrath here
00:01 <    mmcgrath> | yo
00:01 <       knurd> | make 4 out of 6
00:02 <       knurd> | makes
00:02 <       knurd> | so let's start
00:02            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
repotags/interaction with 3rd party repos -- owner: all
00:02 <       knurd> | hmmm
00:02 <       knurd> | there was some discussion about this
00:02 <       knurd> | I'd like to give it another week
00:02 <       knurd> | I want to discuss cooperation with CentOS/z00dax
a bit
00:03 <       knurd> | and would like to leave the repotags issue open
for that time
00:03 <       knurd> | Fernando also did not reply to my last mail on
the list yet
00:03 <       knurd> | that okay for everybody?
00:03 <    mmcgrath> | yep
00:03 <    dgilmore> | thats fine with me
00:03 <       knurd> | k, then I'll move on
00:03 <       nirik> | sure.
00:03            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
vacant seat in the steering committee
00:04 <       knurd> | similar here
00:04 <       knurd> | I mailed the people thimm proposed
00:04              * | nirik hopes we can talk z00dax into joining...
00:04 <       knurd> | four answered
00:04 <    dgilmore> | do we have any other possible people?
00:04 <    dgilmore> | nirik: that wouold be nice
00:04 <       knurd> | dgilmore, we were talking if z00dax could join us
00:04 <       nirik> | z00dax expressed interest, but doesn't want to
sign the cla.
00:04 <       knurd> | that's why I'd like to give this some more time, too
00:04 <    dgilmore> | knurd: what was the responses?
00:04 <       nirik> | not sure if he needs that for just providing
input tho...
00:05 <    dgilmore> | nirik: thats always been a bone of contention
with him
00:05 <       knurd> | from those four: a definite "no" or a "only if
you don't somebody else"
00:05 <       nirik> | yeah.
00:05 <       knurd> | k; anything else regarding this topic?
00:06              * | knurd will skip "/topic EPEL Meeting --
Investigate single RHEL subscription for EPEL maintainers -- quaid" --
quaid not around
00:06            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
finish the wiki docs and remove the warnings
00:06 <       knurd> | mether and quaid did some cleanups
00:06 <       knurd> | after I did some
00:06 <       knurd> | looks quite good now afaics
00:06 <       knurd> | I'd say we remove those "not official yet"
warning by next weeks meeting
00:07 <       knurd> | as long as nobody yells until then
00:07 <    mmcgrath> | +1
00:07 <       knurd> | does that sounds sane?
00:07 <       nirik> | I think we should wait until we have bodhi in
place before we remove them and offically announce...
00:07 <    dgilmore> | +1
00:07 <       knurd> | nirik, well, a warning remains
00:07 <       nirik> | I guess the wiki warning can be removed before that.
00:07 <    mmcgrath> | I worry about when bodhi will actually be in place.
00:07 <       knurd> | that EPEL still is not officially open/annource
00:07 <       knurd> | d
00:07 <       knurd> | but I'd say we can remove the other warnings
00:08 <       nirik> | knurd: ok, then thats ok with me.
00:08 <       nirik> | mmcgrath: me too. ;(
00:08 <    mmcgrath> | I know lmacken is a very busy guy.
00:08 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, any status update regarding bodhi?
00:08 <     lmacken> | yes
00:08 <       nirik> | speak of the lmacken. ;)
00:08 <    mmcgrath> | lmacken is in the house :)
00:09            --> | wwoods (Will Woods)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:09 <     lmacken> | it's still running on publictest2 and seems to be
fairly stable.. there are still some minor issues that I need to fix, as
well as a few very important items (F7 multilib being one of them)
00:09 <    mmcgrath> | lmacken: would you be interested in using epel as
a test deployment or would that cause more harm then good?
00:09 <       knurd> | will it be used for F7 updates?
00:09 <     lmacken> | mmcgrath: Hmm.. I'll have to think about that
00:09 <     lmacken> | knurd: that's the plan
00:10 <     lmacken> |
https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=1.0
00:10 <       knurd> | lmacken, someone from us should discuss the
repolayout for EPEL with you somewhen
00:10 <     lmacken> | for those interested in helping push this
forward, that is the list of tasks that need to get done for 1.0
00:10 <       knurd> | if that's possible at all or if we need to make
adjustments
00:10 <       nirik> | without it, epel doesn't have any testing repos,
which is something that has to be fixed before we announce.
00:10 <       knurd> | nirik, yes, sure
00:10 <     lmacken> | knurd: yeah, a few minor adjustments need to be
made.. i just haven't done them yet
00:10 <       knurd> | nirik, I'll add "repolayout/bodhi/testing repo"
to the schedule
00:11 <       knurd> | lmacken, I'm sure we'll find a way to make
everyone happy
00:11 <     lmacken> | knurd: no doubt
00:11 <       knurd> | I suppose getting bodhi in place for F7 is more
important now
00:11 <       knurd> | then we can look closer at bodhi for EPEL
00:11 <       knurd> | but we should do that soon, too
00:11 <       nirik> | lmacken: I can work on docs there if you can be
around for answering my dumb questions...
00:12 <     lmacken> | nirik: that would be awesome.
00:12 <     lmacken> | i'm hoping to throw together a simple screencast
at some point as well for pushing updates, since it is going to be a
fairly trivial process
00:12 <       nirik> | wiki ok for that? or just a text file or ?
00:12 <     lmacken> | nirik: wiki is fine
00:12 <       nirik> | ok, will whip up something and we can correct it.
00:13 <     lmacken> | nirik: awesome, thanks
00:13 <       knurd> | anything else regarding this topic?
00:13 <     lmacken> | not from me.. i encourage people to play around
on publictest2 and try and break stuff
00:13 <     lmacken> | the updates-stage got wiped out last night
though, so I have to re-initialize it in a few
00:14              * | knurd hasn't taken a single closer look at bodhi yet
00:14              * | knurd sill looking out for 36h days
00:14 <       knurd> | s/sill/still/
00:14 <       knurd> | anyway, let's move on
00:14            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
Free discussion around EPEL
00:14 <       knurd> | anything else to discuss?
00:15            --> | Jeff_S (Jeff Sheltren)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:15 <       knurd> | was the "start signal" mail on fedora-maintainers
fine this way?
00:15 <       nirik> | so, it looks like CentOS guys are going to push
Xfce for their extras repo... so should I refrain from pushing it in
epel? push it and try and keep it in sync? thoughts?
00:16 <       knurd> | nirik, we should have it
00:16 <    mmcgrath> | I'm under the opinion that stuff like that is up
to the maintainers.
00:16 <       knurd> | but we should talk with CentOS about some kind of
cooperation maybe
00:16 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, but we should not say "they have it, so
we don't ship it"
00:16 <       nirik> | yeah, I wish I knew who in centos was doing it...
I just have word that it's happening via z00dax
00:17 <       nirik> | also dag is going to do a munin package, which is
one that I also want to do... will ponder on what I want to do.
00:17 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: I'd say up to the maintainer to say "I'll
use their spec file" or "I'll use my own".
00:17 <       nirik> | on Xfce I might wait and see what their packages
look like.
00:17 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, k
00:17 <       nirik> | their 4.2.1 packages were just my specs from fedora.
00:18 <       nirik> | anyhow, just thought I would throw that out for
comment.
00:18 <      Jeff_S> | I would ask karan about sharing the spec somehow...
00:19 <      Jeff_S> | especially if it is a rebuild of your FE package
00:19 <       knurd> | we really need to find a way of cooperation so
bugfixes find their way into CentOS, EPEL and Fedora
00:19 <       nirik> | if they are very similar then I could see trying
to keep them both in sync.
00:19 <       knurd> | if all use the same kind of spec file
00:20 <       knurd> | k, anything else?
00:20 <       knurd> | otherwise I'd say we close this meeting for today
and make it the fastest EPEL meeting ever
00:20 <      Jeff_S> | sorry I was late!
00:20 <      Jeff_S> | :)
00:20 <       knurd> | Jeff_S, glad you're here
00:20              * | nirik has nothing else off hand.
00:20 <       nirik> | oh, how about mock configs?
00:20 <       knurd> | ohh
00:21 <       nirik> | can we get those in the main mock package?
00:21 <       nirik> | fixed and working.
00:21 <       knurd> | somebody should open a bug about it
00:21 <       knurd> | and submitt them to mock
00:21 <       knurd> | anyone intersted?
00:21              * | quaid stumbles in late
00:21            --> | smooge (Stephen J Smoogen)  has joined
#fedora-meeting
00:21 <      smooge> | Argh
00:21 <      smooge> | srry
00:21 <      Jeff_S> | or just email to the fedora-buildsys list.. no?
00:21 <       knurd> | hi quaid, hi smooge
00:22 <    dgilmore> | knurd: ill make sure they work
00:22 <      Jeff_S> | that used to be the playground for mock/plague
00:22 <      smooge> | I am late.. my apologies
00:22 <    dgilmore> | Jeff_S: still is
00:22 <       knurd> | dgilmore, CentOS 5 ppc is not relased yet
00:22 <    dgilmore> | bad smooge ;)
00:22 <    dgilmore> | knurd: i know
00:22 <       knurd> | dgilmore, so we should not include those yet
00:22 <       knurd> | dgilmore, and z00day mentioned something about
two "streams"
00:22 <       nirik> | well, it would be nice if the ones in the mock
package for fc5/fc6/devel/epel all got updated to work with epel 4/5
00:22 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:23 <    dgilmore> | I will make sure that they work for epel
00:23 <       nirik> | dgilmore: cool. thanks.
00:23 <       knurd> | quaid, there is "Investigate single RHEL
subscription for EPEL maintainers -- quaid" on the schedule
00:23 <       knurd> | is that sill valid?
00:23 <       knurd> | still
00:23 <      Jeff_S> | yes, I am interested in that - thought I missed it
00:23 <       quaid> | about the FAQ and other EPEL pages ... I have a
priority item to go over all of them, because they are a bit, uh,
linguistically challenged in a few places, and somewhat confusing; I
want to do the reorg of the FAQ as per what knurd suggested (packagers,
users), and so forth; I can then remove the "draft" tag at that point
00:24 <       knurd> | quaid, sounds fine to me
00:24 <       knurd> | quaid, but we should try to get it finished this
months IMHO
00:24 <       knurd> | I want the wiki finished and the warnings gone :)
00:25 <      smooge> | Will we be answering who the EPEL customers are
thought to be to distinguish it from other customer bases?
00:25 <       knurd> | smooge, I just replied to your mail
00:25              * | quaid finished catching up on the buffer
00:25 <       knurd> | smooge, I'd say we should continue to discuss
this on the list
00:25 <       knurd> | smooge, and yes, maybe we should write something
up then
00:25 <       knurd> | s/then/sooner or later/
00:25 <       quaid> | knurd: yes, finishing wiki by ... end of this
week(end) ... is my goal
00:26 <       knurd> | quaid, even better :)
00:26 <       quaid> | as for the RHEL subscriptions, I haven't gotten
too far with that ... still looking for the right person
00:26 <       knurd> | quaid, k; I'll leave it on the schedule then?
00:26 <       quaid> | did I ask mmcgrath who you got subs from for Fedora?
00:26 <       quaid> | knurd: yeah, let's keep at it
00:26 <    mmcgrath> | quaid: I don't remember :)
00:26 <       quaid> | maybe Fedora can just "purchase" a few hunder
more subs and give them out via RHN to EPEl maintainers
00:27 <       quaid> | mmcgrath: Fedora has its own RHN management group
now, though, right?  You went through CustSvc to get that
00:27 <    mmcgrath> | I believe so, yes.
00:27 <    mmcgrath> | But I have pretty specific rules regarding our
subscriptions and the binary RPMs.
00:27 <       quaid> | ok, let's look at what it would take to up the
entitlements by a bit to support EPEl
00:28 <       quaid> | oh, sure;esp. bin rpms, that's why we want
official subs for EPEL folks
00:28 <       quaid> | so its all above board and we can be clear,
"These EPEL packages were tested and built on 100% RHEL"
00:28 <       knurd> | quaid, maybe test machines (xen guests that can
be reverted to a certain state after being used) would be helpfull already
00:29 <      Jeff_S> | Of course it would be nice to test them on CentOS
as well, as that is a large EL user base  (like me) :)
00:29 <       knurd> | but I'm not sure what is easier: hand out some
RHEL subscriptions to EPEL people or set up semi-public test.machines
00:29              * | nirik is also a very heavy CentOS user.
00:29              * | Jeff_S only 150 lbs.
00:29 <       quaid> | Jeff_S: in fact, we could have a multi-OS build
env like we have a multi-arch
00:29              * | knurd uses centos as well
00:29              * | dgilmore uses both RHEL and CentOS
00:30              * | mmcgrath thinks CentOS is easier to use.
00:30 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, likely
00:30              * | dgilmore is 265lbs
00:30 <       quaid> | knurd: maintainers need to be able to build
offline, too
00:30 <      Jeff_S> | I think CentOS is easier to use, but I would love
to be able to build/test packages on RHEL as well
00:30 <       quaid> | but I like the idea of a semi-public build
system, too
00:30 <       knurd> | quaid, yeah. but centos should be fine for them
afaics
00:30 <       knurd> | most of the time
00:30 <       quaid> | mmcgrath: sure, we could just tell all to use
CentOS, and to maintainers, its probably all the same
00:30 <       quaid> | but for users ...
00:31 <      smooge> | With the key requirements for RHEL-5, CentOS has
been much easi to use
00:31 <    mmcgrath> | quaid: well lets see how far you can get with
subscriptions.
00:31 <       quaid> | well, there is some value in knowing it was built
on their particular env; for EPEL I think the publicity is good; and
it's kind of a nice perq for being a maintainer
00:31 <       quaid> | yep
00:31 <    mmcgrath> | if that fails we can plan on using xen though our
xen resources are very low right now.
00:31 <    mmcgrath> | some projects are already on hold :-/
00:32 <       knurd> | k, anything else?
00:32 <    mmcgrath> | nothing here.
00:32              * | knurd will close the meeting in 60 if nothing new
shows up
00:32              * | knurd will close the meeting in 45
00:33 <      smooge> | Did we go over build schedule?
00:33              * | knurd will close the meeting in 30
00:33 <       knurd> | smooge, what do you mean by "build schedule"?
00:33 <      smooge> | As in timeline for getting x86,x86_64 out the door?
00:33 <      smooge> | for at least a set of beta-testers?
00:33 <       nirik> | smooge: the repos are already available.
00:33 <       nirik> | for testing.
00:33 <      smooge> | if so I will read in the notes
00:33 <       knurd> | smooge, we did not discuss this
00:34 <       nirik> | http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/epel/
00:34 <      smooge> | its ok if its for next meeting
00:34 <       knurd> | smooge, but you have a point; maybe we should
abnouce some kind of "beta" soon
00:34 <       knurd> | I'll add it to the schedule for the next meeting
00:34 <      smooge> | nirik, most of the posts to the lists have not
mentioned this but have said real soon
00:34 <       knurd> | smooge, feel free to bring the topic up on the list
00:34 <      smooge> | that was why i was asking
00:34              * | nirik would like to see testing in place before
too many people start using and getting used to it not being there.
00:35 <       knurd> | nirik, yeah, you have a point
00:35              * | knurd will close the meeting in 30
00:35 <       nirik> | perhaps we could manually move all the current
release items into updates-testing? then announce a beta with the
updates-testing repo?
00:35 <       knurd> | nirik, yeah, but we should know if the final
layout really is possible with bodhi first
00:36 <       nirik> | true
00:36              * | knurd will close the meeting in 20
00:36 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:36              * | knurd will close the meeting in 10
00:36 <       knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end


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