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Log from this weeks (200700926) EPEL SIG Meeting



00:01:20 <       knurd> | Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting?
00:01:20              * | knurd likes to remind everyone that the schedule for todays meeting as well as a list of all open tasks can be found on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule 
00:01:20            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process
00:01:23              * | nirik looks around to see if there is an epel meeting.
00:01:34            --> | kwizart  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01:36            --> | kwizart is Unknown
00:01:42              * | mmcgrath here
00:02:01              * | nirik is here. 
00:03:05 <       knurd> | stahnma said he might miss te meeting
00:03:06              * | marek - Marek Mahut present.
00:03:27              * | quaid is here for a few minutes
00:03:30 <       knurd> | well, let's start
00:03:44              * | knurd reshuffles the topic list
00:03:51            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/PackageMaintainer/GenericJobDescription -- quaid
00:03:57 <       knurd> | quaid, what's the status of this?
00:04:14 <       knurd> | nobody complained on the list
00:04:36 <       knurd> | so should we just say "this is it now" to finally get that relized and off the todo-list?
00:04:56              * | nirik pulls up the link to look at it. 
00:04:59 <       quaid> | um, homm
00:05:11 <       quaid> | yep, that was it; no complaints, it's therefore done.
00:05:27 <       quaid> | and can always be updated :)
00:05:28              * | abadger1999 sits in the bleachers
00:05:42              * | quaid doesn't think a ratification is needed to update it, so let it be wikiified
00:05:46 <       knurd> | that okay for everybody?
00:05:51 <       knurd> | quaid, +1
00:05:55 <       nirik> | +1 from me
00:06:00 <    mmcgrath> | +1
00:06:30 <       knurd> | k, settled then
00:06:41 <       quaid> | coo'
00:06:48 <       knurd> | quaid, will you put the links on the front page and everywhere else where needed?
00:07:26            <-- | couf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:07:28            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/CommunicationPlan -- stahnma, quaid
00:07:35 <       knurd> | quaid, same proceedure?
00:08:55 <       knurd> | lala
00:08:56 <       quaid> | yep
00:09:08 <       knurd> | that fine for everyone?
00:09:09 <       quaid> | I think I passed that one to the list for review, don't recall any further comments
00:09:38 <       quaid> | I'm not likely to do any wiki relinking or stuff this week
00:09:42 <       knurd> | quaid, that matches my memory
00:09:48 <       quaid> | maybe leave me a new task for next week?
00:10:05 <       knurd> | quaid, will do
00:10:21 <       knurd> | anyway, no complains on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/CommunicationPlan? then I consider it accepted
00:10:33              * | nirik reads. 
00:10:38 <       knurd> | we of couse can easily modify it later in any case without the meeting/list overhead
00:10:57 <       nirik> | yeah, seems ok to me.
00:11:21 <       knurd> | k, accepted then
00:11:31            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Rhel51  -- unassigned
00:11:38 <       knurd> | I added that task
00:11:50 <       knurd> | there are some preparations we likely should do
00:12:09 <       knurd> | e.g. -- remove yum-utils as it is now in RHEL?
00:12:11 <       nirik> | fixing broken deps in testing?
00:12:23 <       knurd> | or just leave it in EPEL for some more weeks until CentOS catches up?
00:12:26 <       knurd> | nirik, that as well
00:12:39 <    mmcgrath> | I think someone suggested 1 week or 2 weeks wait, I think either is fine.
00:12:40 <       knurd> | nirik, you seem to be taking care of it in parts already
00:12:55 <    mmcgrath> | and regarding yum-utils and python-imaging, I think those should be removed.
00:12:56 <       knurd> | can you put that task on your plate? I'll help where needed
00:13:01 <       nirik> | I would say we should file bugs against each of the packages that got pulled into rhel to dead.package their cvs and then we can remove them from the repo(s)
00:13:24 <    mmcgrath> | though, perhaps, they're not doing any harm just sitting there and not updated (protect the e-v-r)
00:13:24 <       nirik> | sure.
00:13:25 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, will CentOS catch up withing 1 or 2 weeks?
00:13:34 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, four weeks might be safer
00:13:43 <       nirik> | catch up? meaning release 5.1? or ?
00:13:44 <    mmcgrath> | not sure, what harm would come of it if they didn't?
00:14:06            --- | couf_ is now known as couf
00:14:08              * | knurd thinks about it
00:14:36 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, stuff that might depend on yum-utils would create broken deps
00:14:48 <    mmcgrath> | k
00:14:51 <       knurd> | (at least is yum-utils is not in centos -- don't know)
00:15:05 <         f13> | might I suggest that you leave the package in the repo until CentOS catches up, then drop them?
00:15:07 <       knurd> | nirik, bugs sound fine
00:15:08 <    mmcgrath> | if we're going to block on CentOS lets not pick a date, we'll let them do that.
00:15:13 <         f13> | obviously you wouldn't do any new releases of them.
00:15:24              * | nirik is confused... we are talking about yum-utils? or 5.1?
00:15:24 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, f13, yeah, sounds fine
00:15:32 <       knurd> | there is also scientific linux
00:15:51 <       knurd> | nirik, we are talking about when to remove yum-utils once 5.1 is out
00:16:21 <       nirik> | ok. Is centos going to remove theirs as well?
00:16:52 <         f13> | I would imagine so
00:16:54 <    mmcgrath> | nirik: did centos add yum-utils?
00:16:56 <       knurd> | nirik, I suppose they will switch to the one from RHEL?
00:17:13 <       nirik> | Well, they have yum-utils in their extras repo.
00:17:29 <       nirik> | note that they ship their own yum version, so not sure if they will switch to the RHEL one.
00:17:38 <       knurd> | nirik, well, if it becomes a part of RHEL 5.1 it will be in centos-base 5.1 afaik
00:17:57 <       nirik> | yeah, dunno.
00:18:10 <       knurd> | well, let's simply wait and see
00:18:13 <       nirik> | In any case waiting sounds fine to me.
00:18:13 <       knurd> | and decide later
00:18:34 <       knurd> | but somebody should take care of this and oher issues for 5.1
00:18:39 <       knurd> | any volunteers?
00:19:07 <       nirik> | I'm happy to work on bugging people about broken deps and trying to work on the repo.
00:19:13 <       knurd> | e.g. put stuff like what we just discussed on the wiki page to make sure we get back to it when it happens
00:19:28 <       knurd> | s/it happens/later/
00:19:35 <       nirik> | I can try and do that...
00:19:46 <       knurd> | nirik, k; can we own that task together then?
00:19:54              * | nirik looks at the clock, hoping days would start being 30 hours each. 
00:19:59 <       nirik> | knurd: sounds good.
00:20:06 <       knurd> | nirik, many thx
00:20:13            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/RhelMetaData -- stahnma
00:20:23 <       knurd> | stahnma is not around
00:20:31 <       knurd> | I sugest we skip this topic
00:20:42            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/KojiAndBodhiForEpel -- unassigned
00:20:49 <       nirik> | sounds fine. I think it keeps needing more defintion of what it is.
00:20:55 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:21:04 <       knurd> | nirik, one reasons why I created the task pages
00:21:16 <       knurd> | so we have a place to put that defintion ;-)
00:21:20 <       nirik> | yep.
00:21:26 <       knurd> | back to bodhi und koji
00:21:39 <       knurd> | I think we all agree that we want to switch to them in the long run?
00:21:51 <       nirik> | so this is blocked on koji being able to hide RHEL binaries, right?
00:22:03 <       knurd> | nirik, this is the most important blocker yes
00:22:18 <       knurd> | I suppose other problems might show up 
00:22:26 <       knurd> | but that one needs to be solved first
00:22:27 <       nirik> | should we file a RFE or the like so at least we can see if the koji folks have it on the radar?
00:22:39 <       knurd> | nirik, stuff like that
00:22:48 <       knurd> | not sure if dgilmore has it on his radar
00:23:09 <       knurd> | but a RFE would be a good start
00:23:41 <       knurd> | and a owner for that task would help as well -- then koji developers know whom to contact in case of questions
00:23:42            <-- | llaumgui has quit (Connection timed out)
00:23:54 <       nirik> | I'm happy to file a bug... I have no knowledge of koji internals tho, so I can't really work on coding anything.
00:24:18 <       knurd> | nirik, k; can you put that # into the wiki please? and CC me? tia!
00:24:24 <       nirik> | ok.
00:24:29            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc -- yum-cron -- knurd
00:24:53 <       knurd> | skipping that if that's okay for eveybody -- things are in hte works again
00:25:00 <       knurd> | I gave a update on the list
00:25:07            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc -- do more on the list and less in the meetings; "Power to the people with no delay." aka "make Steering Committee nearly unimportant" and "new schedule page" -- knurd
00:25:22 <       knurd> | do you guys like what I did to the schedule page in the wiki?
00:25:51 <    mmcgrath> | how does doing things on the list take anything away from the steering committee?
00:25:52 <       nirik> | yeah, sounds fine to me.
00:26:24 <    mmcgrath> | or is that part of the power to the people part :)
00:26:27              * | mmcgrath takes a look at the wiki
00:26:30 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, more like in "if nobody complains on the list (or in the IRC meetings) its simply considered accepted"
00:26:39 <    mmcgrath> | ah
00:26:43 <    mmcgrath> | +1 from me
00:27:00 <       knurd> | it's just a general idea IMHO
00:27:10 <       knurd> | we just need to find way to realize that idea
00:27:20 <       knurd> | the new stuff in the wiki is a first step for me
00:27:38 <       knurd> | I hope we do more, but I don#t know yet exactly what to do
00:27:43 <       knurd> | suggestions welcomed
00:27:49            --> | llaumgui (LLaumgui)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:27:50            --> | hircus (Michel Salim)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:28:24              * | knurd will move on if nobody wants to say more about this topic
00:28:38            --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting | Free discussion around EPEL
00:28:43 <       knurd> | k, anything else?
00:29:09 <       nirik> | I have a few quick items...
00:29:31 <       knurd> | shot
00:29:35 <       nirik> | I have almost caught up on security checking for epel...
00:30:07 <       knurd> | nirik, great work, thx
00:30:09 <       nirik> | there are some packages that were never built, but have branches. Might be good if we could gather a list of those and ping maintainers to build or work on deps to build
00:30:45 <       nirik> | finally, did we ever determine about pushing from testing->stable more often? Or should I bring that up on the list again?
00:31:06 <       knurd> | we said about every four weeks for pushing from testing->stable
00:31:15 <       knurd> | but I had expected 5.1 would show up soon
00:31:24 <       knurd> | so I thought we just wait for that this time
00:31:34 <       nirik> | yeah, agreed.
00:31:44 <       knurd> | "October" was the last date I heard for 5.1
00:31:56            --> | agoode (Adam Goode)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:32:08 <       nirik> | I heard there were issues due to the main kernel being xen now or something... but it was all 3rd hand.
00:32:09 <       knurd> | package with branches missing in EPEL > list & ping sounds like a good idea to me
00:32:27 <       nirik> | mmcgrath: did you have a chance to automate the broken deps report for epel?
00:32:56 <    mmcgrath> | Not for testing, I'll double check whats going on with that now that you mention it.
00:32:57 <    dgilmore> | knurd: have what?
00:33:02 <       knurd> | maybe some of the people from RH could give some inofficial hints so we know what's up? quaid, mmcgrath, warren?
00:33:36 <       knurd> | dgilmore, talking with koji developer about improving  koji in the long run so we can use it for EPEL
00:33:52 <       quaid> | knurd: not if we like keeping our jobs :)
00:33:56 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: the last news I heard was a month ago or so and it was just that there was a 5.1 coming :)
00:34:05 <       quaid> | isn't there an 'official' word updated somewhere?
00:34:12 <       quaid> | 5.1 list or something?
00:34:20              * | mmcgrath isn't sure.
00:34:32              * | knurd is not on rhel5-list
00:34:40 <    dgilmore> | knurd: they have no resources to do it
00:34:50 <    dgilmore> | it is maked as a nice to have thing
00:34:51 <       knurd> | quaid, I don't want to have a real date, just a rough estimate
00:34:53 <       knurd> | ;-)
00:34:58 <    dgilmore> | but far from being on the radar
00:35:09 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: I'll say sometime after today and before January 2028 :)
00:35:09 <       knurd> | dgilmore, is there a RFE about it somewhere?
00:35:17 <    dgilmore> | knurd: not that i know of
00:35:18              * | knurd slaps mmcgrath :-)
00:35:18 <       quaid> | knurd: "any time after today"?
00:35:26 <      warren> | knurd, I heard from an article "October"
00:35:27 <    dgilmore> | only disccusions on it
00:35:49 <       knurd> | warren, I read that in an article as well
00:35:51 <    mmcgrath> | warren: do you know who's call that is?
00:36:01 <       knurd> | dgilmore, nirik, well having a RFE can#t hurt
00:36:07 <       knurd> | dgilmore, nirik plans to file one
00:36:27 <    dgilmore> | knurd: thats fine
00:36:37 <    dgilmore> | hosted.fp.o would be the correct place
00:36:38 <       knurd> | thx for your support dgilmore 
00:36:59 <      warren> | mmcgrath, even if I did know the planned release day, we aren't allowed to talk about it.
00:37:09 <    dgilmore> | i wish i had time to do the work myself
00:37:12 <       nirik> | https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/koji/ticket/49 (feel free to update/add info if I said something wrong there)
00:37:25 <       knurd> | so, shall we wait for 5.1?
00:37:34 <       knurd> | or simply start to clean up deps now
00:37:49 <       nirik> | in testing? starting now is good.
00:37:52 <       knurd> | and then just do the testing-> stable move ahead of 5.1?
00:37:58 <       knurd> | nirik, yeah, testing
00:38:06            <-- | rdieter has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:38:16 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, are the dep scripts running for testing these days?
00:38:16 <       nirik> | well, I think we should start asap... then we can decide if we want to just move ahead of 5.1 or wait...
00:38:31 <    mmcgrath> | knurd: I don't think they are, I'll do that now.
00:38:31 <       nirik> | but we need to get them fixed first
00:38:36 <       knurd> | nirik, yeah, you're likely right
00:38:41 <       knurd> | mmcgrath, many thx
00:39:17 <       knurd> | nirik, let's see what comes out the dep script and decide on hte list then how to eactly move on
00:39:22 <       knurd> | does that sounds like a plan?
00:39:45 <       nirik> | sure. sounds good.
00:39:54 <       knurd> | k
00:39:56 <       nirik> | there is still one issue in the stable repo... with multilib.
00:39:58 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:40:02 <       knurd> | nirik, ?
00:40:12 <       nirik> | dgilmore: did you have a chance to look at that? does mschwents changes/suggestions look sane?
00:40:29 <       nirik> | oh, next week: meeting at alternate time? or this time?
00:40:48 <    dgilmore> | nirik: i have not yet looked
00:41:05 <       knurd> | did he send more improvments? what kind of?
00:41:21 <       knurd> | nirik, I'd say we give the alternate time one more chance next week
00:41:41 <       nirik> | well, some changes to Config_EPEL.py... basically some of the multilib blacklist doesn't seem right...
00:41:42            <-- | londo has quit ("Konversation terminated!")
00:41:52            --> | rdieter (Rex Dieter)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:42:07 <       knurd> | why do we F7-style multilib in RHEL4 in any case?
00:42:09 <       nirik> | for example in epel4, graphviz has a broken dep in x86_64.
00:42:11 <       knurd> | is that wise?
00:42:38 <       knurd> | in FC3 (which EL4 is based on) we IMHO multilibed only selected packages
00:42:39 <       nirik> | and it should be blacklisted. It is, but it should be listed as 'graphviz-devel' thats blacklisted, not graphviz
00:43:04 <         f13> | multilib /hard/.
00:43:06 <       nirik> | dunno the history.
00:43:15 <    dgilmore> | knurd: in FC-3 we dod not offer multilib at all
00:43:17 <       knurd> | nirik, maybe I did add graphviz and not graphviz-devel
00:43:20 <       knurd> | not sure
00:43:29 <    dgilmore> | s/dod/did/
00:43:30 <       knurd> | dgilmore, extras not, but core did iirc
00:43:31 <       nirik> | the graphviz one is the only one I know that causes broken deps.
00:43:48 <    dgilmore> | knurd: we are using extras multilibing logic
00:43:53 <         f13> | dgilmore: FE-3 maybe?
00:44:00 <         f13> | I'm pretty sure FC-3 did multilib
00:44:03 <         f13> | oh I see that's sorted out
00:44:11 <       knurd> | dgilmore, I think that can be switched off completely
00:44:25 <       knurd> | as FE5 iirc also did not use multilib
00:44:30 <       knurd> | or was it FE4?
00:44:40 <       nirik> | I think we should s/graphviz-devel/graphviz/ in the config and leave it at that.
00:44:42 <       knurd> | of FE5 did only the whitelist multilib
00:44:46 <       knurd> | nirik, +1
00:44:52 <       nirik> | since we have already been doing multilib, less changes better.
00:44:54              * | mmcgrath brb
00:44:55 <    dgilmore> | knurd: except we have already offered it.
00:45:03 <    dgilmore> | nirik: thats probably sane
00:45:06 <       knurd> | dgilmore, good point
00:45:12 <       nirik> | dgilmore: yeah, so pulling it would be bad. agreed.
00:45:22 <       knurd> | yeah
00:45:34 <       knurd> | so we just blacklist what needs to be blacklisted
00:45:36 <       knurd> | k
00:45:38 <       knurd> | anything else?
00:45:55 <       nirik> | knurd: shall I make that change? or you want to? I can fwd you the email from mschwent if you like.
00:46:06 <       knurd> | nirik, feel free to do it
00:46:11 <       nirik> | ok
00:46:20              * | nirik has nothing else. 
00:46:24 <       knurd> | nirik, seems you are already more familar with the scripts than I am...
00:46:35              * | knurd will close the meeting in 45
00:47:06              * | knurd will close the meeting in 15
00:47:23 <       knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end


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