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Meeting Summary/Minutes from today's EPEL meeting (2011-02-07)

#fedora-meeting: EPEL (2011-02-07)

Meeting started by nirik at 20:30:12 UTC. The full logs are available at

Meeting summary
* init process/agenda  (nirik, 20:30:12)

* Wiki repave  (nirik, 20:35:07)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign
    (nirik, 20:36:04)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign
    is my current plan  (nirik, 20:48:32)

* Open Floor  (nirik, 20:55:58)
  * ACTION: nirik will update his clamav package and ask epel clamav
    people to update to it.  (nirik, 21:18:20)

Meeting ended at 21:22:09 UTC.

Action Items
* nirik will update his clamav package and ask epel clamav people to
  update to it.

Action Items, by person
* nirik
  * nirik will update his clamav package and ask epel clamav people to
    update to it.

People Present (lines said)
* nirik (105)
* smooge (40)
* stahnma (17)
* wolfy (15)
* nb (12)
* ianweller (11)
* zodbot (4)
* rsc (3)
* dgilmore (3)
* abadger1999 (2)
20:30:12 <nirik> #startmeeting EPEL (2011-02-07)
20:30:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb  7 20:30:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:30:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:30:12 <nirik> #meetingname epel
20:30:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:30:12 <nirik> #topic init process/agenda
20:30:55 <nirik> ping abadger1999 rsc stahnma tremble dgilmore smooge (please let me know if you wish to be pinged for epel meetings or not)
20:31:24 * abadger1999 here
20:31:33 <abadger1999> and yes, I'm glad to be pinged for epel meetings
20:31:38 <nirik> cool.
20:31:38 * stahnma here
20:31:50 <stahnma> I'll take a ping
20:31:57 <rsc> nirik: pinging is ok :)
20:32:05 <nirik> cool. :)
20:32:44 <nirik> who has agenda items? I'd like to discuss my great wiki repave plan...
20:33:52 * stahnma doesn't have anything today
20:34:19 <nirik> ok, will wait a sec for anything else and dive in with that topic... ;)
20:35:01 <nirik> ok
20:35:07 <nirik> #topic Wiki repave
20:35:29 <nirik> our epel wiki pages are in a somewhat sad state.
20:35:50 <nirik> some out of date info, lots of things that are tldr, lots of things that are hard to find.
20:36:02 <nirik> I wrote up a plan for trying to redo the pages:
20:36:04 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign
20:36:27 <nirik> trying to simplify things, so the landing page has all the info end users want/need.
20:36:46 <nirik> There are still several questions (listed there at the bottom)
20:37:23 <nirik> any general feedback from anyone?
20:38:13 <stahnma> I tend to think we can get rid of the old reports
20:38:14 <nirik> not sure what to do with the old pages (in particular the meeting reports and such)
20:38:51 <nirik> yeah, I hate to loose history, perhaps we could archive them all or something.
20:39:14 <stahnma> slightly off topic: are there any SIGs working in Fedora that also really spend time on EPEL? perl, python, etc?
20:39:27 <stahnma> might be nice to mention that if there are...
20:39:59 <nirik> humm.. yeah, not sure...
20:40:13 <nirik> we could ask.
20:40:15 <stahnma> sorry, didn't mean to derail
20:40:23 <nirik> no worries.
20:40:38 <stahnma> the open issues page might be a good idea
20:40:43 <stahnma> if we keep it up to date
20:41:07 <nirik> Anyhow, I will probibly keep working on this, refine the existing plan, then write up the pages and drop them in. Help welcome.
20:41:20 <nirik> yeah, meetings are more productive with agendas known in advance.
20:42:13 <stahnma> It certainly needs the cleanup, and I appreciate your lead on this
20:42:16 <nirik> I'm also not sure if it makes sense to make all the pages in another area, then rename/redirect them over or what, but I can talk to people who know the wiki and see.
20:42:30 <nirik> it's been on all our todo lists for ages... just need to get it done.
20:42:43 * dgilmore is around
20:43:04 <nirik> welcome dgilmore. :) Do you want to be pinged for epel meetings moving forward?
20:43:10 <dgilmore> nirik: sure
20:43:16 <nirik> cool.
20:43:35 <stahnma> was there any EPEL goodness at FUDcon?
20:43:49 <nirik> not really that I know of. I got sucked into many other things. ;(
20:44:36 <dgilmore> stahnma: i think everyone ran out of time
20:44:48 <stahnma> fair enough'
20:45:11 * nirik toyed with the idea the other day of trying to do a EPEL FAD
20:45:21 <stahnma> ideas for an agenda?
20:45:27 <nirik> there aren't too many of us, so it might be not too hard.
20:45:33 <stahnma> I like the plan so far :)
20:46:14 <nirik> well, fix wiki (if it's not done yet), work down bugs, fix borken deps, get broken dep checker integrated, do any epel specific reviews.
20:46:34 <nirik> just a thought.
20:46:50 <nirik> anyhow, any further thoughts on the wiki reorg?
20:46:59 <stahnma> I am 100% for it
20:47:04 <stahnma> and will try to help out a bit
20:47:06 <nirik> I think the next step is to check which pages are popular, so we are sure to replace/fix those.
20:47:17 <stahnma> if you don't see me helping out, just shout at me in #epel
20:47:24 <nirik> cool. Thanks.
20:47:38 <smooge> ah crap
20:47:41 <smooge> sorry for the delay
20:47:43 <nirik> I suppose if folks are ok with archiving the reports pages we could just do that.
20:47:55 <smooge> nirik, are you going over repaving with cement, rebar, tar, and lead?
20:48:13 <nirik> smooge: hey, welcome. ;) You ok with being pinged for epel meetings? (I guess it didn't do much good as you were not in here yet, but moving forward...)
20:48:19 <nirik> yep.
20:48:32 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign is my current plan
20:49:19 <smooge> nugh meeting notes
20:49:50 <nirik> The vast majority of *EPEL* pages are old meeting reports, etc.
20:49:59 <smooge> ack sorry derailing things.
20:50:13 <nirik> no worries.
20:50:46 <smooge> well deleting them seems to be a no-no for other groups.. but honestly.. who wants to read why repotags are not happening for the 40th time
20:51:06 <nirik> I think we could set them to Archive: and it puts them in another namespace.
20:51:19 <nirik> so they don't show up unless you search that namespace.
20:51:23 <nirik> ianweller: you happen to be around?
20:52:10 <smooge> classes most likely
20:52:33 <nirik> yeah.
20:52:44 <nirik> I can ask him about mass archiveing those. I think we had a way to do that...
20:53:58 <nirik> well, I didn't have much more than that... just wanted folks to see my plan, offer to help or provide feedback on the plan. ;)
20:54:44 <smooge> I think it is a good idea. I think a lot of the items on those pages are confusing and sometimes conflicting
20:54:59 <smooge> I would just say 4 pages cover it all
20:55:13 <nirik> yeah, we can get it down a lot for sure.
20:55:53 <nirik> ok, if nothing more on this, I guess we move on.
20:55:58 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
20:57:01 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor?
20:57:32 <smooge> clamav
20:57:42 <nirik> always a fun one. ;)
20:57:45 <smooge> ok this one is causing grief for me currently.
20:57:47 <nirik> It needs an update still...
20:57:58 <nirik> rsc: did you get a chance to look at updating it?
20:59:10 <nirik> I guess I can try updating it.
20:59:12 <ianweller> nirik: i am now around
20:59:19 <nirik> I hate looking at it tho.
20:59:46 <nirik> ianweller: cool. Wasn't there some way to mass mark wiki pages for Archiving? and archive means they are still there, but not in the default namespace, right?
21:00:14 <ianweller> 1) you can give me a list of pages and i can write a script
21:00:29 <ianweller> 2) archive means it's in the Archive: namespace, which is not searchable by default
21:00:43 <ianweller> not that it matters too much what's searchable or not since it sucks :)
21:00:50 <nirik> yeah.
21:01:02 <nirik> ok. Is there a better way to get a list of pages than the search? ;)
21:01:03 <rsc> nirik: sorry, lacking time
21:01:09 <smooge> nirik, so here is my plan for clamav since the current version is so unloved
21:01:19 <nirik> rsc: bummer.
21:01:20 <ianweller> nirik: what do you mean?
21:01:44 <smooge> 1) repackage as clamav096 like I did mediawiki
21:01:56 <smooge> 2) put in for package review just for EPEL
21:02:07 <smooge> 3) ...
21:02:09 <smooge> 4) profit
21:02:13 <nirik> ianweller: ie, a list of page titles that have '*EPEL*' in them. I can do that in the wiki search, but then I have to scrape out the titles from the page it outputs. It doesn't give me a nice list.
21:02:35 <rsc> smooge: replace/update clamav simply, because everything < 0.96 is anyway unsupported...
21:02:36 <nirik> smooge: ugh. I would prefer to just scortch the existing one and replace it with a sane spec.
21:02:37 <wolfy> smooge: shoot&kill exiting version is missing from your task list
21:02:38 <ianweller> nirik: i feel like you can do that in the API.
21:02:47 <ianweller> nirik: i feel like i can write a script for that, later this evening.
21:02:56 <nirik> ianweller: cool. That would be extra awesome.
21:03:06 <ianweller> extra awesome?!!! :-o
21:03:10 <nirik> ;)
21:03:23 <ianweller> nirik: so. script to move a list of pages to archive, script to list pages by glob.
21:03:29 <ianweller> CAN DO
21:03:41 <ianweller> (later)
21:03:47 <nirik> ianweller: thanks. ;) yes.
21:03:55 <nirik> so, is only epel5 clamav out of date?
21:04:19 <smooge> ok clamav09whateverisfuckingsupported
21:04:25 <smooge> with a clean spec
21:04:41 <wolfy> nirik: fc13/14/15 are up2date
21:04:46 <smooge> nirik, yes it is out of date
21:04:49 <nirik> yeah, what about el6?
21:04:56 * nirik looks
21:05:15 <wolfy> nirik: old
21:05:15 <nirik> it's a bit out of date.
21:05:20 <nirik> who touched it last? ;)
21:05:36 <wolfy> only ensc touches it
21:05:43 <wolfy> it's such a mess that noone wants it
21:05:56 <nirik> he doesn't do epel tho
21:06:09 <smooge> and anytiume anyone does touch it he threatens to drop everything and quit
21:06:20 <nirik> but he did for el6? weird.
21:06:22 <smooge> or that was the takeaway from last time
21:06:28 <smooge> nirik, I am not sure he did
21:06:30 <nirik> or no.
21:06:39 <smooge> nirik, I think it got autobuilt or something
21:06:50 <nirik> ah ha. it was nb
21:07:16 <nirik> nb: ping. ;) Are you willing to update clamav in epel5/epel6?
21:08:02 <nirik> How about this for a plan:
21:08:10 <nirik> - Try and get nb to update for us. ;)
21:08:20 <nirik> (especially since he's not around... great time to volenteer)
21:08:36 <nirik> - If that fails, lets scortch it and replace it with something sane we can maintain.
21:09:21 * wolfy uses the rpmfusion version since... forever
21:09:27 <nirik> any objections?
21:09:34 <nirik> wolfy: you mean rpmforge?
21:09:35 <wolfy> s/rpmfusion/rpmforge/
21:09:51 <wolfy> yeah, dag's rpms for amavis and clamav
21:09:59 <wolfy> work like a breeze
21:10:00 <nirik> right.
21:10:07 <smooge> yeah.. I did that last time
21:10:08 <wolfy> (10x dag )
21:10:11 <nirik> I had worked up one based on his a while back as well
21:10:19 <smooge> and got the "oh no you don't" and some politics
21:10:32 <smooge> so I remember backing off
21:10:46 <smooge> and then never getting to the clamav09x package
21:11:14 <nirik> well, if someone is willing to maintain/update the existing thing, great.
21:11:25 <nirik> if not, we should zorch it and put in one that we can.
21:11:45 <smooge> I want to zorch
21:11:49 <smooge> it is a pain in the ass
21:12:06 <smooge> the reason for the name change is that it is not possible to update easily
21:12:16 <nirik> thats not really true.
21:12:17 <smooge> from old way to new way
21:12:31 * nb can try to update it
21:12:33 <smooge> oh I screwed up my system badly
21:12:37 <nb> I touched fedora's one time
21:12:44 <nb> he was actually nice and reverted me and pointed out why'
21:12:51 <nirik> .bug 396171
21:12:53 <zodbot> nirik: Bug 396171 Review Request: clamav - Anti-virus software (for EPEL) - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=396171
21:12:57 <nb> and then he actaully pushed the newer version in fedora to stable (gasp)
21:13:16 <nirik> nb: if you are willing to update el5/el6, thats fine with me.
21:13:35 <nirik> if no one is we should replace it with one that people are willing to keep updated.
21:14:11 <nirik> I had a rpm (see above) that would update the fedora based one and rpmforge, etc... was not easy tho, and might not work now.
21:15:02 * wolfy votes for ditching the mess and replacing with a sane spec
21:15:14 <nb> nirik, i'd like to replace it with something
21:15:44 <nirik> ok, if we want to do that, then someone should take the above package, update it, and we should make sure it looks ok before zorching?
21:16:01 <nirik> is anyone wanting to do that? ;)
21:16:01 <nb> the spec that it has now doesn't install the init scripts and stuff
21:16:04 <nb> last time i looked
21:16:19 <nb> nirik, i can take a look, but if anyone else wnats to, that'd be great, because i dont know how soon i'll get to it
21:16:32 <nirik> nb: yes, it's setup so each service you want to use with it requires YOU to write a init script. It's stupid and hostile.
21:17:07 <wolfy> it's SAFE ~!
21:17:10 * nirik could try, but not sure how much time I have for it.
21:17:15 <wolfy> and takes ages to setup
21:17:31 <nirik> wolfy: and you must edit 2 config files when installing to get it to update.
21:17:40 <nirik> and the spec makes eyes bleed.
21:17:59 <nirik> aright:
21:18:20 <nirik> #action nirik will update his clamav package and ask epel clamav people to update to it.
21:18:39 <smooge> aaaaaaaah my eyes are bleeding
21:18:48 <nirik> don't look! :)
21:18:56 <nirik> ok, anything else for open floor?
21:19:01 <smooge> nope
21:19:03 <nb> i think i even like ensc's better than the current clamav one
21:19:13 <nb> better than the current epel
21:19:13 <smooge> what? one
21:19:21 <smooge> ensc's is the current epel
21:19:30 <nb> smooge, i thought ensc's was the current fedroa one?
21:19:33 <smooge> or the current epel was ensc's from a while ago
21:19:48 <wolfy> current epel is ensc's older vesion
21:19:48 <nirik> right. epel's is just an older iteration of it.
21:19:50 <smooge> ensc has owned it since Fedora Extras started
21:19:55 <nb> oh
21:20:12 <wolfy> and he LOVES his baby
21:20:22 <smooge> it was one of the big "Why we will never use Fedora/EPEL" fights
21:20:29 <smooge> right next to repotags
21:21:20 * nirik wonders what happened with steve... he was the one who stepped up to maintain ensc's in epel, but he's been absent for a while it seems like.
21:22:05 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone. ;)
21:22:09 <nirik> #endmeeting

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