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Re: [fab] looking at our surrent state a bit

Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:

Well, contributing to core is still hard afaics.
You can very easily send patches and participate in anaconda-list if you have any interest in contributing.

anaconda is only one part of core. I meant Core as a whole.

The same applies to the rest of the core. Core/Extras is all about packaging. At the code level, it doesnt prevent contributors from getting involved at all. So attributing any alleged slowness of Anaconda development to "openness" of core itself doesnt seem to be the right idea to me. If you want to contribute, every project in Fedora can get patches through bugzilla. We have already had hundreds of patches from external people that has been merged in core. I dont disagree that opening up core is beneficial for *other reasons* and there are ways for people to contribute towards that but it dont expect it to speed up say Anaconda or initscript development on its own. Just expressing that so that we dont expect this to be the magic bullet that solves all the development issues.

Well, I've reached the point where I'd think we need to get our own
stuff much more improved (Live-CD, initscripts), even if we need to get
less improvments into gnome or the kernel for one develont cycle.

Not sure, I'm not a marketing guy. But we need to communicate better
that we're nearly as free as Debian (here and there we are worse, in
other areas we are better afaics). Most people don't know that afaics.
Where are we worse?
Well, some people might say that as we ship firmware packages in our kernel.
So does Debian.

Put they planed to change that. Anyway, it was just a example, not worth
debating out. Debian IMHO is seen as real open-source distribution in
the linux-community and we should try to get a similar fame.

Well, you claim we are worse than Debian in some aspects with regard to be a Free software distribution. Just pointing out we are not at this stage. Getting that message out is a different aspect. Before we do that, I would like to see that licensing audit to cross check licensing in Fedora Extras to be completed. Other stuff is waiting on FSF to let us know their standing.

I would prefer we discuss things on the terms of Fedora rather go into a competitive comparison. Yes, sometimes GNOME or Firefox or Xorg or KDE would do a release in the middle of Fedora development which we wont be able to accommodate. People would have to wait for the next release if they want that. We might skip releases and pick the next one. When upstream projects work in a distributed fashion, it is inevitable that some project or the other wont be coordinated with Fedora. This is not news.

/me gives up here -- seems I can't get Rahul to understand what I'm up to

I pointed out a scenario we have been hit with many times during development of Fedora releases. I would like to hear how your ideas on how to solve that without affecting the quality of the release and updates.

Wait for the next release.

Please tell that somebody who just bought a new computer or hardware
component and what's to use that now.

This is going to happen with every distribution and we are getting changes out much faster than many. Pushing out major updates every time is *not* the solution. I dont see any alternative. Aligning ourselves with major new GNOME, KDE, Xorg releases at the same time will not be always possible.

We wont be pushing everything as updates.

I didn't request that. Seems you don't want to hear me on that, too.

No I hear you but I am seeing potential issues with this. See below.

If a major release of Xorg follows 3 months after GNOME with a Fedora release somewhere in between

That would not have happened if Fedora releases were aligned with the
ones from Gnome.

Why wouldnt it happen? To give you a hypothetical example. Lets assume we align Fedora Core 7 with GNOME 2.18. Xorg 7.2 gets released 3 months after the release of Fedora Core 7. What would you do then? Push out the Xorg release as an update to Fedora Core 7? We will have to wait the next release of Fedora itself otherwise we risk regressions.

We are trying to solve the bigger problem instead.

And you keep the community out.

How exactly? Working with the infrastructure team is what is required and everyone is welcome to get involved.


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