RFC: Release team meetings

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

Jesse Keating schrieb:
> On Friday 13 April 2007 09:37:32 Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
>> I can feel with you and understand your point. But that *IMHO* the
>> overhead you have to live with if you want to get the community
>> involved, as they afaics want to have a chance to influence stuff if
>> they spend lots of their time working on that stuff (Fedora in this case).
>>
>> But that overhead IMHO worth the trouble *if you do it right*, because
>> the community then will do work that you otherwise would have to do. But
>> if you don't do it right it can easily fail and you have some overhead,
>> but get nearly nothing back, or even worse, you have to continue to do
>> all the work.
> 
> I see you've taken this as an US vs THEM stance again.

No, that was as is not my intention. It's a "it happens behind closed
door" vs "it happens in the open and everyone that wants to get involved
or heard at least can try".

>  It's not.  The fact is 
> there _are_ community people in the release team and as far as I've seen 
> they're just as interested in just getting work done than spending the next 2 
> weeks arguing over how to structure the governance, meeting schedule, voting 
> style, reporting officers, etc...

That not needed now imho, as we are close to F7 (¹); just a list of
names in the wiki, and some form of report now and then with "the
release team decided foo and bar" (only the important stuff of course,
not the details) would be a good start for now at this point of time so
close before F7.

>  In fact, I'd go so far as to say that 
> everybody _but_ me in the group is a community member.

Currently it's happens in the dark to outsiders like me; even worse: it
seems even FESCo doesn't know or discuss what got decided by the release
team. Other groups like the packaging committee or EPEL send reports
that get discussed (and sometimes even vetoed, like yesterday).

>  I am the only person 
> that is paid to release engineer Fedora.

Then it's a Release Cabal with non-paid Fedora community members now
instead of a Core cabal -- I'd say that isn't much of an improvement as
long as things happen behind closed doors.

>  Everybody else participates outside 
> their normal day job which would make them community members regardless of 
> who their employer is.

And we really need someone that can work on it release engeneering task
full time, so it's good to have your here Jesse. I really appreciate
your work (²); it's just that I'd like it to happen more in the open so
people that want to get involved can.

CU
thl

(¹) -- well, all those stuff could have been worked out months ago as it
was foreseeable that a release group was needed. It was mentioned
multiple times during the "FESCo successor" discussions and everyone
iirc agreed (well, nobody complained) that you are the person for
running this team.