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Re: website mockups, what is fedora?

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 18:27 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> That feeling is what the KDE SIG is feeling and for a similar reason.
> They've put in a lot of hard work to make sure that KDE on Fedora rocks.
>  It's up-to-date compared to other distros.  It's got people watching
> for bugs and applying them to packages before the packages even get to
> rawhide.  It's grown by quite a few new contributors over the past year.
>  All in all, they're feeling successful and they know that they're
> producing something that's great.

If KDE SIG members feel that the exclusion of one link on one single web
page is entirely representative of how the community, Board, and others
perceive their status in Fedora - well, that is absolutely absurd, and
they really need to take a step back and get a little perspective.

One of the things I love about Fedora in KDE is that it is "Fedora KDE."
It's not, "Kedora" or some other silly name, branded completely
separately from the main project and left to fend for itself, not a
'true' Fedora.

Is that not a symbol in itself of the Fedora Community's appreciation
for the KDE SIG?

For many (I feel completely objective & rational) reasons, KDE will not
be the default desktop of Fedora anytime soon. If we put a KDE download
link on the main 'Get Fedora' page, it will never be as prominent as the
default download's link. There will always be confusion and explanation
needed to instruct people on how to download KDE.

This redesign I feel is a wonderful opportunity for spins like KDE to
tailor their site to offer the download experience they want for their
users. Rather than saying 'go to get.fedoraproject.org and click over
there, and then click that' they can just say 'go to
get.fedoraproject.org/kde.' Much simpler. They can provide a sidebar of
resource links that point to any instructions they've written particular
for KDE users and to upstream KDE docs if they want - that will not be
possible any time in the forseeable future on the main "Get Fedora"

Fedora KDE is NOT a distro. Fedora KDE is part of a larger distro, and
that distro is called FEDORA. I'm not asking anyone to 'take one for the
team.' I am asking that folks please consider this new base of users we
are trying to attract. 

> Now they see the website mockup.  Wow, it sure is beautiful!  Such an
> improvement over what we had currently.  I'm sure glad Fedora KDE is
> part of this.... Wait a minute.  Why isn't Fedora KDE part of this?!

How is Fedora KDE not a part of this design? Fedora KDE will have a site
all its own that users can be directed to. 

> At this point, people are feeling angry.  They've put in a lot of work,
> making a stellar product.  And what they think the mockup is showing is
> that their work isn't going to be easily findable anymore.  There's a
> big button that says download Fedora and little text that says "More
> Download Options".  What the hell, they think, don't people appreciate
> the work we've done?
> Then they go and attempt to provide input about what they find wrong
> with the new design but they find out that people aren't interested in
> listening to them.  Sure they've done work for on segment of Fedora, but
> they aren't on the Board and they aren't the designer who made the
> mockups and the mockups *are* satisfying the explicitly stated
> requirements from the Board so what's the problem?  Don't you think it
> looks better?  Come on, take one for the team!  It doesn't matter that
> you aren't featured on get-fedora, if someone manages to find
> spins.fp.o, they'll still be able to find kde there!
> At this point, they are getting tired of being angry.  Instead, they
> feel undervalued, not respected, not appreciated, powerless to affect
> change, unlistened to.  The word for those feelings is disenfranchised.
>  They also feel that they can put all the time they want into making
> their piece of the project really shine but it doesn't make a difference
> in the end -- their needs aren't being met.  The work that they've put
> into Fedora isn't going to be seen.  The effort that they've spent
> making Fedora better isn't visible.  This is where they start feeling
> demoralized. [Now continue reading to the next question]
> * What besides no link on get fedora to KDE is wrong with the page?
>   * And implied by this: what's some constructive things we can do to
> make those things better?
> The answer to this question is problematic.  Because the simplistic
> answer to the question, as you know from the feedback you've already
> gotten, is that only the lack of a link to the KDE spin is what's wrong.
> But that answer isn't the real story.  If I go to the doctor, I'll tell
> him that I have a stomachache that won't go away.  It's up to the doctor
> to figure out that I have the flu, cancer, or krone's disease.
> Similarly, "There's no link to the KDE spin" is a report of the symptom.
>  I think the cause is what was written in the first answer -- The KDE
> SIG feels that their hard work is being undervalued and disregarded by
> not having a link on the page.  They care deeply and passionately about
> Fedora but it appears that the people who have power over Fedora don't
> care about them and their work to make Fedora better.
> The cure is to figure out how to redesign the page to show that their
> work *is* valued.  I think this means showing how people can download
> their product easily and intuitively if they want to.
> The implementation of this cure is the hard part where you each have to
> "spin your wheels" making new proposals that the other side can
> criticize.  Right now, I think you are so far apart that the criticism
> is simply rejecting the other side's proposals.  (Proposal: "Direct link
> to KDE spin but Default spin highlighted more prominently and given
> first position?" Answer: "No!"  Counter Proposal: "One button to Default
> Spin and tiny link to spins page"  Counter Answer: "No!")  But if you
> keep moving your proposals closer, there will be a point where you will
> start building on each other's suggestions instead of rejecting them.
> This is a hard process, made harder because you're the doctor in this
> scenario.  You are the designer.  You have a grasp of the different UI
> elements that are available.  So it's very likely to be your bag of
> tricks that will be used to direct the people who want choice to the
> spins page while letting the people who fear choice be comfortable
> picking the default solution.
> -Toshio
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