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Re: Proposal for ML conduct

Luis Villa wrote:
If you can't tell the difference between being a free man and being an
asshole, a community may not be the right place for you. Or at least,
it probably shouldn't be.

Ah... you have the right to call me an asshole, just as I have the right to call you a fool,
and neither of us has the right to not be offended.

As Ben Franklin said: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

If you would be so foolish as to wish the removal of vitriol and "offensive" language...
then you do not deserve to live in a country that has free speech.
Or to put it another way: The Fedora community exists to work together
towards some common goals. Sometimes, in the name of reaching those
goals, you have to be polite and adult towards others so that you can
work efficiently and constructively with those other people even when
you disagree with them, and work with them in the future after you
have stopped disagreeing. This use of words like 'freedom' and
'oppression' suggests to me that some people think their highest
reason for being here is about them. It's not about you, it's about
working together to build something bigger and better than you. And if
you can't play nicely with others in the name of those bigger and
better things, or don't understand why sometimes you have to play nice
in order to get to those bigger and better things, then maybe this
isn't the right place for you.

Let me put this in a way you might understand...

You called me an asshole earlier... and I defended your right to do so.

Yet, if you were to have your way with the ML Conduct rules, you would have been moderated on this list.

Sometimes the best and most effective means of communication *IS* "offensive language".

Both "playing nice" and vitriol have their place in such communities.

I'd note that while Seth's point about you not having any 'rights' to
be 'free' on fedora's infrastructure is technically correct, I think
it's beside the point. If you feel that those 'rights' are really
important to you, then whether or not you technically have those
rights is less important than the fact that you may not understand the
entire point of coming together as a community to create and build
software. It's like the right to set someone's house on fire- whether
or not you have the legal right to set the house on fire, the fact
that you're even talking about it suggests that you're missing the


For a community to remain open and free, regardless of intention or reason for the group to exist,
free speech must reign supreme. Without it, ideas may never come to light, people may be removed,
and the entire project would collapse.

Even vitriol can be constructive at times.

Lyos Gemini Norezel
fn:Lyos Norezel
adr:;;;;Ohio;;United States
email;internet:Lyos GeminiNorezel gmail com
title:Computer Repair Technician
note;quoted-printable:"Those who hunt monsters beware, lest they become monsters themselves.Ify=
	ou stare long into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you." --Nietzsch=
	Mundus Vult Decipi et Decipiatur -- Latin Proverb

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