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Re: [Fedora-ambassadors-list] RedHat v/s Fedora Events

On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 02:45 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
> Fedora might not have a booth as .org (here in Strasbourg, France), great !!!!
> After more than two hours of discussion (on thursday night) with local
> LUGs members about Fedora's presence as an organization, it might
> happened that I can't convince my lugs members (and myself). I WAS
> introduced to the Fedora Project.
> It all started with :
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.html
> (which I haven't read before)
> versus the initial objectives of the Fedora Project.
> Below are some of the topics discussed, please don't try to fool me
> around with URLS.

You can be critical without being rude. 

> I've already made myself a fool today, (thanks) and if there's no
> CONCRETE information given to Fedora Ambassadors, personally The
> Fedora Ambassador project needs to be revised.

The above announcement is as concrete as it gets. What needs to be
revised in this project?

> I've nothing against with Red Hat but instead I feel that Fedora is
> making a fool out of us, free contributors.

in what way?

> #001 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnleashKDE
> KDE will be Extras soon for the release of Fedora Core 7, according to
> UnleashKDE.
> Really unleash isn't the right word here, it sounds like DUMPING KDE.

Why do you feel so? Remember that this is only a proposal as indicated
in the page. 

> Question 1a:
> The Fedora Project is a community driven project, sponsored by Red
> Hat. But here, it shows clearly that there are 2 groups, Red Hat and
> Community. In this wiki page, there's a lot of 'Red Hat's.

I see it as Red Hat being part of the community. Red Hat and the
external community working is the whole idea behind the project. 

> Answer 1a:
> To answer this Q1, I've listed the authors on this wiki page :
> RahulSundaram : (starter) Red Hat

I just imported the page Patrick Barnes started as I have noted in the
change log. I have been contributing to Fedora long before I joined Red
Hat and continue to do so on my own time. So whatever I do is done in my
own interests and not on the behalf of Red Hat (just so that you get a
clearer picture).

> Rex Dieter : Community
> PatrickBarnes : Community, I guess from my private chat on IRC with him.
> Question 1b:
> Fedora Ambassadors are requested to stay neutral concerning KDE and
> GNOME. It is clear that moving KDE from Core to Extras this is not
> Neutral!!

We have been working on reducing the differences between core and extras
to the point that it doesnt matter to the end user which repository the
package is. Thats a implementation detail.

> Answer 1b:
> It doesn't make any difference because anaconda will have integrated
> features to choose Extras packages during the Install.

Why do you feel so? Extras being integrated with the installer is a
critical factor in being able to reorganize the packages. If KDE is
moved into Fedora Extras, the external community can help in improving
KDE packaging more directly and since the installer would list KDE, XFCE
etc along with GNOME users would be able to choose their desktop
environment more easily. 

> Personal thoughts:
> Fedora will turn out to be like Ubuntu, where there will be paid
> developpers from Canonical to work on gnome.

Red Hat already contributes heavily to GNOME development and probably is
the largest corporate contributor.  I cant see more contributions from
Canonical or anyone else as being a bad thing.

> And also this contradicts greg's words on the Umeet Conference:
> http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/talks/?lang=en&s=fedora
> @gregdek	* And Fedora Ambassadors, in which we encourage individuals
> to be advocates for Fedora, Linux and open source in their
> communities, and to whom we provide as much support as we can in doing
> these things.
> This means that we, the community and Fedora ambassadors, shall
> advocate KDE with Fedora, since there sounds like to be a division
> between Red Hat and Community.

Fedora Ambassadors would hopefully set aside their own preferences and
advocate diversity and choice as a advantage that benefits end users. 

> Ambassadors were once told in the Ambassador wiki page to redirect any
> discussions concerning RedHat towards RedHat representatives.
> This statement is not longer available on the wiki. Why ?

Not sure. Add it back again if you want to.

> #002 -- #004 TO BE CONTINUED !!
> Just to end (for today), how can the community help the project if
> event organizers such as Linuxtag (Wiesbaden) does not consider Fedora
> as an organisation ? It's true that now, Mac's email is supporting
> Linuxtag's statement.

It would better if event organizers treat take into account the
differences between projects regardless of the organizations behind
them. Linux Tag funding has been discussed by the steering committee and
we agreed to go ahead. I think the details were posted publicly earlier
but the question on tackling the broader issue still stands.


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