[Ambassadors] Raleigh, we have a problem ...
Rahul
sundaram at fedoraproject.org
Mon Sep 18 08:16:25 UTC 2006
Michael J. Knox wrote:
> Rahul wrote:
>>>
>>> Basically "The conclusion was that the interests of Fedora users
>>> using proprietary NVidia modules outweigh the interests of other
>>> users who would benefit from this update."[1]
>>
>> Amazingly bad conclusion. So much for a detailed explanation of the
>> process. We might as well as have not discussed this issue and
>> conveyed the ideas better. What instead happened was that at the time
>> we were discussing this issue, the Xorg maintainer happened to Ajax
>> and he had no intention on his own to provide a update and we decided
>> that we need to have a general update policy and until then the
>> updates would be a maintainer's decision.
>
> It might be a bad conclusion in the eyes of a RedHat employee and
> someone high in the "ranks" of the Fedora community... but read the
> writing on the wall!
>
> If everyone is calling it a cow, it moos like a cow.. its a good chance
> it is a cow, even if you call it a dog. As a Fedora user and (still) a
> Fedora contributor, it is the same conclusion I drew from the issue.
Just pointing out its a incorrect conclusion. Your perception doesnt
change that. If you want to continue spreading a wrong idea regardless
of the facts, that's your choice but it is not in the best interests of
the project.
>
>>> I was also there when everyone was berating Eric S. Raymond for the
>>> mere suggestion of RedHat making it easier for end users to add MP3
>>> and DVD support. The sheer notation of doing so, left the
>>> fedora-devel mailing looking like a kindergarden play yard (not too
>>> mention IRC).Fedora's attitude towards those that do need 3rd party,
>>> non-distributable or non-free, is doing it damage. I am just telling
>>> you how it is out there, out side your little RedHat office....
>>
>> First, lets stop with belittling other people. My Fedora work has
>> nothing to do with Red Hat. I have been involved with Fedora much
>> before I joined Red Hat so what office I am in is completely
>> irrelevant to the current discussion. I have spend enough time "out
>> there" too to understand the issues that pop up quite often.
>
> Clearly you don't understand, either that, or you are covering your ears
> and going "la la la la la everything is fine la la la la la" because the
> landscape is not peachy for Fedora in my country.
Good attitude there. You assumed that I am sitting in a office and not
speaking to other people or events. That assumption is just not true.
>
>> ESR didnt merely come up with a polite request to add MP3 support. He
>> claimed incorrect things about the patents not covering decoders. The
>> mail was full of inflammatory leads.
> Right or wrong approach to a subject does not make the subject its self
> wrong.
Stating completely incorrect facts in a inflammatory mail does mean that
your valid points if any has very good chances of getting lost.
In my opinion, ESR has some very valid points, one that didn't
> seem to be heard.
Please specify exactly what changes you wanted to be done. As I
understand it, his changes were clearly heard and rejected as being
contradictory to the Fedora objectives.
> That is NOT what is being asked for or even suggested!! Ubuntu, for
> example, does not redistribute non-free in its distribution, however, it
> (non-free) is made easily accessable (legally) through hosted
> repositories. My initial comment was that is should not be a "cardinal
> sin" to advising users on how to install perfectly legal 3rd party
> packages.
I didnt see anybody claim it was a cardinal sin. Ubuntu by the way does
distribute non-free software.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-April/msg00170.html
http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
Look up kernel-restricted package for example. Different distributions
have different objectives. Let's just accept that and not try to be
mimic what others do.
>>
>> Yep. I have already set the stories straight many times and I will
>> continue to do so.
> Seems to be working well, since Fedora's popularity appears to be
> falling.....
Those two are not connected.
>
> I see nothing from Fedora that indicates that its addressing valid and
> real issues that hamper the ability for users to switch or even in some
> cases, recommend, Fedora. The fact that Fedora seems to be loosing
> favor, only proves to me, that what ever is being do, is not working.
>
> Maybe I am wrong.. maybe everyone in the LUGs around have it right... I
> don't know.
It would nice to have a list of those real world issues and what changes
is expected. Other than the suggestion that we include proprietary
software either in the distribution or as a repository, do you have any
other ideas?
Rahul
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