[Ambassadors] Raleigh, we have a problem ...

Rahul sundaram at fedoraproject.org
Mon Sep 18 08:16:25 UTC 2006


Michael J. Knox wrote:
> Rahul wrote:
>>>
>>> Basically "The conclusion was that the interests of Fedora users 
>>> using proprietary NVidia modules outweigh the interests of other 
>>> users who would benefit from this update."[1]
>>
>> Amazingly bad conclusion. So much for a detailed explanation of the 
>> process. We might as well as have not discussed this issue and 
>> conveyed the ideas better. What instead happened was that at the time 
>> we were discussing this issue, the Xorg maintainer happened to Ajax 
>> and he had no intention on his own to provide a update and we decided 
>> that we need to have a general update policy and until then the 
>> updates would be a maintainer's decision.
> 
> It might be a bad conclusion in the eyes of a RedHat employee and 
> someone high in the "ranks" of the Fedora community... but read the 
> writing on the wall!
> 
> If everyone is calling it a cow, it moos like a cow.. its a good chance 
> it is a cow, even if you call it a dog. As a Fedora user and (still) a 
> Fedora contributor, it is the same conclusion I drew from the issue.

Just pointing out its a incorrect conclusion. Your perception doesnt 
change that. If you want to continue spreading a wrong idea regardless 
of the facts, that's your choice but it is not in the best interests of 
the project.


> 
>>> I was also there when everyone was berating Eric S. Raymond for the 
>>> mere suggestion of RedHat making it easier for end users to add MP3 
>>> and DVD support. The sheer notation of doing so, left the 
>>> fedora-devel mailing looking like a kindergarden play yard (not too 
>>> mention IRC).Fedora's attitude towards those that do need 3rd party, 
>>> non-distributable or non-free, is doing it damage. I am just telling 
>>> you how it is out there, out side your little RedHat office....
>>
>> First, lets stop with belittling other people. My Fedora work has 
>> nothing to do with Red Hat. I have been involved with Fedora much 
>> before I joined Red Hat so what office I am in is completely 
>> irrelevant to the current discussion. I have spend enough time "out 
>> there" too to understand the issues that pop up quite often.
> 
> Clearly you don't understand, either that, or you are covering your ears 
> and going "la la la la la everything is fine la la la la la" because the 
> landscape is not peachy for Fedora in my country.

Good attitude there. You assumed that I am sitting in a office and not 
speaking to other people or events. That assumption is just not true.

> 
>> ESR didnt merely come up with a polite request to add MP3 support. He 
>> claimed incorrect things about the patents not covering decoders. The 
>> mail was full of inflammatory leads.
> Right or wrong approach to a subject does not make the subject its self 
> wrong. 

Stating completely incorrect facts in a inflammatory mail does mean that 
your valid points if any has very good chances of getting lost.

In my opinion, ESR has some very valid points, one that didn't
> seem to be heard.

Please specify exactly what changes you wanted to be done. As I 
understand it, his changes were clearly heard and rejected as being 
contradictory to the Fedora objectives.


> That is NOT what is being asked for or even suggested!! Ubuntu, for 
> example, does not redistribute non-free in its distribution, however, it 
> (non-free) is made easily accessable (legally) through hosted 
> repositories. My initial comment was that is should not be a "cardinal 
> sin" to advising users on how to install perfectly legal 3rd party 
> packages.

I didnt see anybody claim it was a cardinal sin. Ubuntu by the way does 
distribute non-free software.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-April/msg00170.html
http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing

Look up kernel-restricted package for example. Different distributions 
have different objectives. Let's just accept that and not try to be 
mimic what others do.


>>
>> Yep. I have already set the stories straight many times and I will 
>> continue to do so.
> Seems to be working well, since Fedora's popularity appears to be 
> falling.....

Those two are not connected.

> 
> I see nothing from Fedora that indicates that its addressing valid and 
> real issues that hamper the ability for users to switch or even in some 
> cases, recommend, Fedora. The fact that Fedora seems to be loosing 
> favor, only proves to me, that what ever is being do, is not working.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong.. maybe everyone in the LUGs around have it right... I 
> don't know.

It would nice to have a list of those real world issues and what changes 
is expected.  Other than the suggestion that we include proprietary 
software either in the distribution or as a repository, do you have any 
other ideas?

Rahul




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