[Ambassadors] FAD EMEA (2007-11-23 - 2007-11-25)

[Gerold Kassube]

Dear Mr. Tom and all others,

Am Freitag, den 09.11.2007, 19:29 +0100 schrieb Thomas Canniot:
> Le Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:42:23 +0100,
> pingou <pingoufc4 at yahoo.fr> a écrit :
> 
> > hi all,
> > 
> > I just ask for update here...
> > 
> > I mean the more time we wait, the more expansive the plan ticket are, 
> > the less chance there are that we can come...
> > 
> > Hope to hear news from you,
> > Best regards,
> > P.Yves
> 
> 
> Thanks Pierre-Yves for giving me the offlist answer to the question you
> made here.
> 
> I would first recommend everyone to use the mailing list for discussing
> this subject and avoid personal mails, so as everyone could get
> the right info at the right moment.
^^
Great Mr. Tom,
here you point out to answer to everyone and miscredit myself because I
answers pingou in private and tell *only him* that FP (named: Max
Spevack) is able to help and pays the rooms and breakfast ...
YOU personally answered Joergs demand to have you at the FAD (sended to
the ML as you requested) also in private; a few later than you wrote
this "Hey, we in France don't need a FAD; so why you stupid other
European need" ...
It that the way you like to form national or regional Teams? 

> 
> Then according to what Pierre Yves told me, the FedoraProject offered
> ambassadors for the FAD the nights at the hotel, but can't invest in
> transportation. That's really disappointing, and we could really wonder
> how the FP consider the FAD : For this kind of European meeting, it is
> quite ununderstandable that the hotel is offered. I would have offered
> the transport (train, car, anyway you want as long as you can justify
> it and say before the FAD : "i'm going there and I expect to spend XXX€
> there because of the train"). In fact, in Europe and anywhere, what is
> very expensive for people is transportation and not sleeping in a hotel.
^^
What is fair to everyone? The one like to arrange flying, the other
preferes traveling by train or by car ... The other one likes to travel
with others so the way is very, very different how to "arrive" at the
FAD ....
... and this also depends to the costs!
BUT it is always and for everybody the same price for a room to stay
over night.
And from my point of view it is more important to have a full day of
work face-to-face instead of 200 IRC meetings or TelCo-Calls.
To your complain "Why at this f*** guy near to Basel in sh*** Germany
[remark: thats what personally I understand what you're saying
everytime]; It it not my primary duty to organise FADs or fairs near to
my "home" it is because I know a little bit around here ...
... and unfortunately it is also "central" in Europe. We have here
France, Switzerland, Germany as Countrys reachable in 20 minutes! We
have an airport (Basel, Moulhouse, Freiburg), we have a big railway
station BAsel and last but not least we have a high concentration of
(yes I have to say it) German Ambassadors around 200 - 300 kms like
Robert, Jens, Joerg, Florian, Jan, Stefan, Andreas; don't forget ALL
Swiss Ambassadors Fabian, Sandro and the Austrian like Claus or
Oliver ...

FAD is for this people who will attend and are able to help; it is a
"planing and organisational meeting" for the Ambassadors who are willing
to help covering EUROPEAN fairs, Events or whatelse.
Everybody is invited and who is near or far from us to attend and bring
his issues to us as a TEAM!
In this Gremium we decide in which events we want to push our power to
bring fedora forward ...
By gosh, Mr. Tom ...
this is not my private meeting, it is a "come together from EMEAs
Ambassadors"!

> 
> What do we really need to run a fad ? This question could be rephrased
> by : What do we need for people to talk in front of each other, at the
> same time and place. The answer is very simple : a table and chairs !
> And we found them in most hotels anywhere in Europe. Because what is
> important is that people could move, to meet and discuss. Not that the
> thickness of the matress they would sleep on :). You can always take a
> low cost hotel on you own or ask for some friend / family / local
> ambassadors to sleep at their homes, for free or very little money.
^^
see above!

> 
> What I want to say is that : 
> 1. We don't need such a luxurious hotel to run the FAD
^^
correct, you can come saturday in the morning (mostly we start WORKING
at 9 or 10 a.m.) and you can leave after we're ready with work at 10 or
11 p.m.; no doubt about ...
But the other attendees want to have to oppurtunity to see and feel
other Ambassadors, their thinking and "tick-ing" and we want to have
also fun, discussion face-to-face

> 2. All we need is a table and chairs (most *normal* hotels have them)
^^
Yes, maybe we are for the "work" somewhere else; at the university of
Basel, in my private house, in a dedicated meeting room; as I told
somewhere .... :-)

> 3. We need to be reimbursed what *is* expensive : transportation, and
> not the hotel
^^
could never be handled and is fair to everybody. If you need to be there
or it is important for you to attend and you can't pay for whatever;
(this is for all Ambassadors the same!) ASK Max or the project to help!

> 4. Some hotels (low cost and high cost ones) could / should have been
> suggested instead of imposing one to the group, and imposing them to
> pay for something they can hardly decide of the price.
^^
It is up-to-everybody to organise an event (like this) and bring it to
everyones attention to make it better ...

> 
> Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the FedoraProject is
> composed of many profiles and I would retain two of them : employees
> and students. Thanks to them, you can already understand that they
> don't have the same revenue and the same way of life.
> Thus, I have to announce you that I don't have 250€ to spend for Fedora.
^^
It is better not to have a look back what I personally spend out of my
pocket to "help" Fedora with my small support I can give but I'm sure if
I count all and every pence and I ask Max to pay he'll kick me out. And
I'm also sure that there are many more who spend more of their live,
money and power to support Fedora with more than your 250 EUR ...
But if you need it to attend let me know, I'm also able to help and ask
the community to collect the money for you ...

> 
> Once again, I am very disappointed, because one again, I will miss the
> fad.
Fortunately you can attend. It is a pleasure for all of us to have the
President of the french people at the table

Finaly: I am pissed of from this mail and it hurts me personally much
and I feel very unsatisfied when I read such words. I only want to bring
the community, the project and last but not least Fedora forward.
And one person begins to ask basicly question because he don't
understand what we have practiced some times before and begun to
live ...
I have now tried to organize several FADs in Rheinfelden, in Berlin (is
approx. 800 km away); Linuxtag the last two years and much more and you
ask why? Because nobody other will do so or is able to do; I don't know
but from my point of view it is much important to do so; and all
attendees tell me that this is important what I try to do; so either you
like nor you dislike. If you like attend if you dislike stay at home.

Just my five cents

Gerold

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