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[Ambassadors] NA Ambassadors Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC Log



(07:59:03 PM) The topic for #fedora-meeting is: NA Ambassadors Meeting
-- Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-08-06
(07:59:06 PM) jds2001: 2.....1
(08:00:34 PM) vwbusguy: hello
(08:00:41 PM) herlo: and begin
(08:00:54 PM) vwbusguy: ScottWilliams here
(08:01:01 PM) ke4qqq: DavidNalley
(08:01:03 PM) herlo: ClintSAvage
(08:01:15 PM) LinuxKnight: MattMcKenzie
(08:01:15 PM) jds2001: JonStanley
(08:01:21 PM) gregdek_mit: GregDeKoenigsberg
(08:01:46 PM) inode0: JohnRose
(08:01:48 PM) jesolato: JosephEsolato
(08:02:08 PM) herlo: any jaboutboul? or iWolf?
(08:02:29 PM) herlo: first topic -
(08:02:30 PM) herlo:    1. News from FAmSCo
(08:05:23 PM) ***herlo hasn't lead a fedora meeting before, is there a
protocol for how long we wait?
(08:05:44 PM) ke4qqq: 30 seconds :)
(08:05:46 PM) herlo: we could table the first two and see if iWolf or
jaboutboul arrive
(08:05:51 PM) herlo: later on
(08:06:05 PM) ke4qqq: so moved
(08:06:07 PM) herlo: NA Goal review and reporting as it relates to
events and activities
(08:06:07 PM) ***iWolf wanders in late
(08:06:13 PM) iWolf: sorry about that.
(08:06:21 PM) herlo: iWolf: nw, lets move back to 1 then
(08:06:26 PM) herlo:    1. News from FAmSCo
(08:06:51 PM) iWolf: heh, i missed last weeks FAmSCo meeting.
(08:07:09 PM) herlo: oh, okay
(08:07:21 PM) herlo: so this meeting is starting well lol
(08:07:22 PM) themayor_: hey im here
(08:07:24 PM) themayor_: my connection sucks so i might be on and off
(08:07:33 PM) iWolf: a portion of the meeting was over the budget.
(08:07:42 PM) herlo: themayor_: who is themayor?  Identify thyself
(08:07:44 PM) iWolf: which I believe has been made rather public on
the ambassador list.
(08:07:55 PM) iWolf: so I think folks should be in the loop for the Q3 budget.
(08:08:14 PM) iWolf: the other thing FAmSCo has been talking about is
making sure we have guidelines for how we have been doing this year
documented.
(08:08:14 PM) inode0: that was jack
(08:08:16 PM) ***themayor_ is jack aboutboul
(08:08:27 PM) iWolf: so the later guys can not have to re-invent the wheel.
(08:08:32 PM) herlo: iWolf: I was just thinking about that...
(08:08:38 PM) jesolato: hi there herlo. i'm new here. i'll try my very
best to keep up with everything you all are discussing.
(08:08:55 PM) herlo: jesolato: welcome
(08:09:08 PM) jesolato: thank you
(08:09:35 PM) herlo: iWolf: one of the things I've been working on
this week is processes.  I'm nowhere near done, but I think I've a
good idea of how our structure should be with regard to policy and
procedure.
(08:10:08 PM) iWolf: herlo: good, are you drafting it on the wiki?
(08:10:25 PM) herlo: ke4qqq and I have been discussing it, not yet
documented, but it will be
(08:11:11 PM) herlo: iWolf: I'll add that as another task for me on
the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA page
(08:12:01 PM) iWolf: herlo: sounds good, processed can help make sure
everyone is on the same page as to how things work.
(08:12:24 PM) iWolf: from the FAmSCo side we are still working on
getting things/guidelines documented, so nothing on the wiki either.
(08:12:37 PM) iWolf: and that's pretty much it from the FAmSCo side
unless someone has a question.
(08:12:51 PM) herlo: iWolf: should that process be worldwide or NA based?
(08:13:12 PM) herlo: the one I am documenting that is
(08:13:38 PM) iWolf: Since things are becoming more regionalized I
would tend to thing NA based. Though touching base with some of the
other regional leads for ideas/sharing of thoughts probably wouldn't
hurt.
(08:14:05 PM) herlo: I suppose that is the points of famsco right, to
touch base with all regions?
(08:14:08 PM) iWolf: but some things will likely vary just due to
different situations in different regions (i.e. Europe has the EMEA.
(08:14:22 PM) iWolf: Yeah, FAmSCo'
(08:14:31 PM) herlo: as I suspected :)
(08:14:34 PM) iWolf: s goal is to make sure the regions are empowered.
(08:14:47 PM) herlo: any other q's for famsco?
(08:15:17 PM) herlo: moving on - Jack Aboutboul: Fedora outreach in
the academic community
(08:15:21 PM) themayor_: yup
(08:15:23 PM) themayor_: thats me
(08:15:30 PM) themayor_: you want me to give a general overview?
(08:15:35 PM) gregdek_mit: Yes, please.  :)
(08:15:37 PM) herlo: sounds good. ke4qqq ??
(08:15:46 PM) ke4qqq: overview and I have some quesitons at the end
(08:16:19 PM) themayor_: okay
(08:16:26 PM) themayor_: so basically there are 3 fronts
(08:16:32 PM) themayor_: 1st high schools
(08:16:41 PM) themayor_: well the basic overview is this
(08:17:01 PM) themayor_: we are trying to get more involved in the
academic community
(08:17:05 PM) themayor_: this is a two step process
(08:17:24 PM) themayor_: first is getting the students and student
bodies interested in open source
(08:17:31 PM) themayor_: and second is getting faculty and staff interested
(08:17:53 PM) themayor_: the reason for this are multiple but mainly,
1, to get people exposed to open source and working in the community
as early as possible
(08:18:07 PM) themayor_: 2, to help institutions refine how they teach
computing and CS
(08:18:20 PM) themayor_: so that kids have more exposure to open
source and can so choose to use it
(08:18:26 PM) themayor_: so we are going about this on 3 major fronts
(08:18:30 PM) themayor_: 1st is outreach
(08:18:38 PM) themayor_: high schools and colleges
(08:18:39 PM) inigo_montoya is now known as mmcgrath
(08:19:07 PM) themayor_: with high schools, i am talking to several of
the top science and math high school in the country to get them to
work with us to integrate some open source into the schools
(08:19:25 PM) themayor_: at the least i am trying to work something
out where their top cs students are getting exposed to open source
(08:19:36 PM) jds2001: themayor_: any of them local here?
(08:19:39 PM) themayor_: whether its through a hardware partnership to
donate hardware to thr school, labs, etc
(08:19:42 PM) themayor_: jds2001: yes
(08:19:49 PM) themayor_: bronx science and stuyvesant
(08:19:59 PM) themayor_: thats the high school angle
(08:20:17 PM) themayor_: get kids curious, get teachers free stuff and
a nice letter here and there and it will work itself out
(08:20:27 PM) herlo: ?
(08:20:39 PM) themayor_: its much easier to do this in high school and
more beneficial to get kids at such an early age
(08:20:52 PM) themayor_: sound good?
(08:20:57 PM) herlo: If I have possible contacts for you, where should
I send them...
(08:21:03 PM) themayor_: jaa redhat com
(08:21:10 PM) vwbusguy: themayor_, agreed.  Microsoft and Apple are
strong in that age group for a reason :)
(08:21:16 PM) ***herlo writes that down
(08:21:17 PM) themayor_: im looking, to start with not more than 20 schools
(08:21:30 PM) themayor_: so far i have like 12 that are solid communicating with
(08:21:37 PM) themayor_: so send them in
(08:21:38 PM) LinuxKnight: do you have the ones decided yet
(08:21:43 PM) themayor_: no not at all
(08:21:44 PM) VileGent: everyone can make 10 livecds and take them to
their local school
(08:21:52 PM) themayor_: VileGent: not a good idea
(08:21:57 PM) themayor_: thats not what we are looking to do
(08:21:58 PM) LinuxKnight: i work for portland school district
(08:22:05 PM) LinuxKnight: i can maybe add one or 2 of their HS
(08:22:08 PM) themayor_: i mean you can do that if you want, but its
not part of what im trying to do
(08:22:16 PM) themayor_: okay well send me suggestions
(08:22:22 PM) herlo: themayor_: have you looked at
http://openhighschool.org/ this before?
(08:22:28 PM) themayor_: yup
(08:22:32 PM) themayor_: met the guy in portland
(08:22:32 PM) herlo: there's also one in Richmond VA
(08:22:39 PM) themayor_: yeah he mentioned to me
(08:22:44 PM) themayor_: anyway, the free hardware is the kicker
(08:22:53 PM) themayor_: especially if we can get each kid a free
laptop to play with
(08:22:55 PM) inode0: can you elaborate on "work with us" how?
(08:23:16 PM) themayor_: basically let open source into the school
(08:23:31 PM) themayor_: whether in the classroom or extra-curricularly
(08:23:53 PM) themayor_: we want students to be exposed to this stuff
and know it exists
(08:23:59 PM) themayor_: alot dont right now
(08:24:03 PM) themayor_: for whatever reason
(08:24:11 PM) inode0: so something of a high school LUG might fall in here?
(08:24:40 PM) themayor_: yeah something like that general idea,
although those communities might be too small for a lug
(08:24:43 PM) themayor_: but an interest group
(08:24:45 PM) vwbusguy: themayor_, is working with OLPC and option?
(08:24:48 PM) themayor_: you know, like a high school club
(08:24:55 PM) inode0: yes
(08:24:56 PM) themayor_: no im not working with olpc
(08:25:09 PM) themayor_: i dont want to get into olpc with this just yet
(08:25:14 PM) themayor_: i want a standard platform
(08:25:17 PM) themayor_: x86
(08:25:19 PM) themayor_: simple
(08:25:25 PM) themayor_: we dont want anything fancy
(08:25:35 PM) themayor_: im working with shuttle on getting a promise
for machines
(08:25:51 PM) herlo: so here's a good question, how does this relate
to ambassadors?
(08:25:59 PM) themayor_: high school doesnt
(08:26:04 PM) themayor_: the next thing does
(08:26:15 PM) inode0: Is there something you can envision us doing at
local high schools to "prime the pump?"
(08:27:29 PM) themayor_: inode0: well if you are next to an elite
science and math high school, call them up and see if they are
interested and if they are chat them up a bit and give me the contact
info and likewise with them
(08:27:31 PM) themayor_: and by elite i mean elite
(08:27:46 PM) themayor_: anyway, can i move on to the next channel?
(08:27:55 PM) ke4qqq: yes by all means
(08:27:57 PM) themayor_: okay
(08:27:59 PM) inode0: I think out definitions might differ, so I dunno
(08:28:10 PM) themayor_: so 2: college student body
(08:28:23 PM) themayor_: this involves ambassadors
(08:28:35 PM) themayor_: i am working on starting a campus version of
ambassadors
(08:28:44 PM) themayor_: similar to firefox campus rep program
(08:29:47 PM) themayor_: the reasoning behind this and why i want it
to be separate than ambassadors is that i think campuses have their
own communities which are better served by a central person on campus
(08:30:00 PM) themayor_: these guys have a few reposnsibilties
(08:30:15 PM) themayor_: first and foremost to promote open source,
and specifically fedora on campus
(08:30:20 PM) themayor_: they need to be at campus events
(08:30:29 PM) themayor_: lugs, ieee, acm, etc
(08:30:53 PM) themayor_: they also will be required to give one open
source related tech talk a semester
(08:30:57 PM) themayor_: or make sure such event takes place
(08:31:01 PM) themayor_: and that we are sponsors for it
(08:31:31 PM) themayor_: also, they will be our interface with local
staff and faculty
(08:31:39 PM) themayor_: sound good?
(08:31:52 PM) themayor_: any questions so far?
(08:31:59 PM) ke4qqq: plenty
(08:32:06 PM) themayor_: okay go
(08:32:21 PM) ke4qqq: does this mean that we should back off of colleges??
(08:32:38 PM) themayor_: for the time being, no, but once things are
in place, i would say yes
(08:32:41 PM) ianwelle1 is now known as ianweller
(08:32:42 PM) themayor_: meaning dont lose all contact
(08:32:42 PM) ke4qqq: what are they getting in return for serving as a
campus rep/campus ambassador.
(08:32:48 PM) VileGent: themayor_,  what about us ambassador who are
already on college campuses
(08:33:05 PM) themayor_: but if there are students there who can take
over let them, they will feel more accomplished
(08:33:11 PM) themayor_: VileGent: you mean already students?
(08:33:33 PM) themayor_: ke4qqq: a bunch of schwag, money to sponsor
events, fame and fortune!
(08:33:34 PM) VileGent: i work at a uni, and i am heavily involved in
the campus LUG
(08:33:54 PM) ke4qqq: how do we, or do we at all coordinate/work with
these guys once they are up and running?
(08:34:01 PM) themayor_: well it depends on your area, for ambassadors
already involved we dont want to displace anyone
(08:34:04 PM) VileGent: themayor_,  in facts i am one of the faculty advisors
(08:35:13 PM) herlo: any other thoughts here?
(08:35:23 PM) ke4qqq: well I have three campus visits lined up this
semester - so I guess my question is, should I be recruiting a campus
rep while I am there, and if so, do I/we have to mentor them or turn
them over to you, or?
(08:35:24 PM) VileGent: herlo yeah i dont like it
(08:36:07 PM) themayor_: so if lets say you are currently at some uni
and the local events happen mostly around that uni thats fine
(08:36:07 PM) themayor_: but it will be hard for anyone at a uni who
isnt a student to be involved in student clubs
(08:36:07 PM) themayor_: so that will require a student
(08:36:07 PM) themayor_: its a weird dichotomy, but i want to make
sure we separate things as much as possible to minimize confusion and
responsibilities
(08:36:14 PM) ***quaid finally gets in , reads his buffer
(08:36:19 PM) themayor_: shall i move on?
(08:36:27 PM) themayor_: or did i get disconnected?
(08:36:33 PM) herlo: no you are still here
(08:36:39 PM) herlo: I'm still thinking
(08:36:52 PM) herlo: but plesae move on if you wish
(08:36:53 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't think his question was answered
(08:37:02 PM) themayor_: anyone?
(08:37:07 PM) themayor_: okay so moving on
(08:37:07 PM) quaid: we see you themayor_
(08:37:14 PM) herlo: themayor_: can you se us?
(08:37:15 PM) gregdek_mit: Wait...?
(08:37:18 PM) gregdek_mit: ke4qqq?
(08:37:28 PM) themayor_: the third channel is university faculty
(08:37:30 PM) jds2001: gregdek_mit: i see ya :)
(08:37:30 PM) iWolf: we seem to have many ambassadors who are
students, why move them from ambassadors to new campus ambassadors as
opposed to working under the current ambassador framework?
(08:37:32 PM) ke4qqq: themayor_: well I have three campus visits lined
up this semester - so I guess my question is, should I be recruiting a
campus rep while I am there, and if so, do I/we have to mentor them or
turn them over to you, or?
(08:37:32 PM) themayor_: this is a big one
(08:37:57 PM) vwbusguy: iWolf, allow overlap?
(08:38:34 PM) vwbusguy: I would hate to assume a "student" ambassador
couldn't participate in non-college related events
(08:38:46 PM) iWolf: vwbusguy: it just seems to me we cover more
ground that way, with campus ambassadors being a special branch of
ambassadors - perhaps with their own budget as well.
(08:39:02 PM) herlo: ooh, more money :)
(08:39:07 PM) iWolf: herlo: :)
(08:39:30 PM) herlo: we can spend our time focusing on LUGs and events
and not have to spread ourselves thin
(08:40:20 PM) inode0: I'm also working at a university but think
recruiting a student to lead some campus activities is likely a good
thing for them as well
(08:40:24 PM) herlo: themayor_: are you still there?
(08:40:31 PM) vwbusguy: I would just like to see college students
involved in regular ambassadors work too
(08:40:40 PM) iWolf: herlo: yeah, for some of us who aren't involved
with local colleges, but we have numerous current ambassadors who are
students and would be great to spread fedora at a store.
(08:40:59 PM) herlo: iWolf: a store? or a school?
(08:41:18 PM) iWolf: herlo: oops.  i meant school.
(08:41:22 PM) iWolf: :)
(08:41:23 PM) herlo: :) nw
(08:41:28 PM) jds2001: a school is just a store that sells edjumacation :)
(08:41:36 PM) herlo: tru dat
(08:41:50 PM) ***herlo gradiated the fif grad
(08:42:26 PM) themayor_: the purpose of this is to show faculty how it
is beneficial for them to teach open source methodologies and tools to
their students
(08:42:26 PM) themayor_: so we've decided that we really need an
infectious vector to get into this one
(08:42:26 PM) themayor_: and what we've come to realize is that we
really need to not try and change what teachers teach but show them
that there are tools that will make things easy for them
(08:42:27 PM) themayor_: and once the students see these tools they
will get curious as to where they came from and it will lead them to
open source
(08:42:28 PM) herlo: looks like themayor_ is not seeing us and we're
not seeing him
(08:42:30 PM) themayor_: and really the truth is that CS education in
the US is lacking
(08:42:32 PM) themayor_: students arent exposed to a range of
technologies that they are getting abroad
(08:42:32 PM) herlo: oh, there he is...
(08:42:34 PM) themayor_: students come out of college not knowing how
to code using certain methodologies which any software company will
need to retrain them for
(08:42:37 PM) themayor_: google is seeing this problem
(08:42:41 PM) themayor_: as well as obviously red hat and a bunch of
other places
(08:42:47 PM) themayor_: hey
(08:42:51 PM) themayor_: wow i just typed for like 3 hours
(08:42:55 PM) themayor_: let me cut and paste
(08:43:17 PM) herlo: themayor_: we were still stuck back at point 2
(08:43:20 PM) themayor_: you guys see me now right?
(08:43:23 PM) herlo: student ambassadors
(08:43:24 PM) ke4qqq: yeah
(08:43:29 PM) themayor_: sorry our internet is very crappy
(08:43:39 PM) herlo: np, but we have q's for you there, iydm
(08:44:22 PM) herlo: themayor_: ??
(08:45:10 PM) herlo: hmm, k, lets have him paste it in an email to f-a-l??
(08:45:19 PM) herlo: and move forward?
(08:45:24 PM) ke4qqq: yeah I'll email my questions as well
(08:45:27 PM) themayor_: hey
(08:45:27 PM) themayor_: im still here
(08:45:32 PM) herlo: oh, you are?
(08:45:50 PM) gregdek_mit: themayor_: If you can see me, say "BOOYAH!"
(08:45:54 PM) herlo: I think his intarwebs are vary slow...
(08:45:56 PM) iWolf: mailing list would be great - best way to get it
out in the open.
(08:46:05 PM) gregdek_mit: +1 to mailing list.
(08:46:20 PM) ***vwbusguy waves @ themayor_
(08:46:28 PM) herlo: I think that's a good choice due to his slow
responses, poor latency +1
(08:46:53 PM) herlo: moving on?
(08:46:56 PM) gregdek_mit: Moving on!
(08:47:02 PM) themayor_: booyah
(08:47:22 PM) herlo: Next topic - NA Goal review and reporting as it
relates to events and activities
(08:47:25 PM) VileGent: 2 minute lag there themayor_
(08:47:41 PM) herlo: themayor_: sorry, we have to move forward..
tasking you to email your idea from here
(08:47:57 PM) themayor_: okay ill follow up everything in a few
minutes to fedora-ambassadors-list
(08:48:01 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: wanna take this one...
(08:48:03 PM) inode0: thanks
(08:48:06 PM) herlo: themayor_: thanks
(08:48:30 PM) ke4qqq: sure - herlo and I worked on some goals that we
think are achievable
(08:48:34 PM) ***ke4qqq searches for link
(08:49:19 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: they're all now off Ambassadors/NA
(08:49:32 PM) herlo: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/WDP
(08:49:35 PM) ke4qqq:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/WDP
(08:50:25 PM) ke4qqq: we plan to take over the world. Essentially
there isn't a lot new here except we want to have more people doing
it, and track it better. More events (esp small events)
(08:50:43 PM) ke4qqq: more reporting, more recruting (of ambassadors
and other contributors)
(08:51:09 PM) herlo: I think one of the things that came out of this
and is a sub-item under this is the new Active Ambassadors page
(08:51:12 PM) herlo: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Active
(08:51:27 PM) ke4qqq: yes, and please add your info to that page.
(08:52:01 PM) ke4qqq: but realistically at the moment we get swag we
go out, and if we are lucky Fedora gets an email saying we gave it all
away
(08:52:21 PM) herlo: that's not good enough
(08:52:24 PM) ke4qqq: and that's good - but I think we should be doing that....
(08:52:26 PM) ke4qqq: and more
(08:52:56 PM) ke4qqq: we need to actively recruit - and then track
those recruits - make sure they don't get lost with lack of purpose
(08:52:58 PM) VileGent: so untill you have an event you are not
considered active now
(08:53:16 PM) ke4qqq: no, it's all about work - not events
(08:53:31 PM) ke4qqq: are you hanging out in forums - acting as a liaison
(08:53:34 PM) herlo: events are one way to show you are active, among others...
(08:53:38 PM) inode0: #fedora is definitely active :)
(08:53:39 PM) ke4qqq: are you recruting new people?
(08:53:48 PM) VileGent: Below is a list of active North American
Fedora Ambassadors broken down by region. If your name is not on this
list, feel free to add it along with your last event report.
(08:53:53 PM) ke4qqq: are you hanging out in #fedora and putting up
with newbs...
(08:53:57 PM) herlo: inode0: good point
(08:54:12 PM) ke4qqq: are you showing up at events.
(08:54:23 PM) herlo: VileGent: we want event reports, remember an
event isn't just major conferences, it can be as simple as I helped X
number of ppl this week in a simple blog post or email
(08:54:32 PM) jtaber: I can attest herlo is following up with new recruits
(08:54:34 PM) ***jds2001 notes that VileGent does a great job in #fedora
(08:54:37 PM) gregdek_mit: This is an old saw.  Are "events" the only
"work" that Fedora ambassadors do?
(08:54:50 PM) herlo: gregdek_mit: no way!
(08:54:52 PM) VileGent: how many people in here help in #fedora
(08:55:00 PM) ***jds2001 on occassion
(08:55:04 PM) inode0: events has a conference connotation that is hard to shake
(08:55:07 PM) ***vwbusguy raises hand
(08:55:07 PM) herlo: VileGent: probably not enough, and we should all
do our share
(08:55:09 PM) VileGent: jds2001,  vdl
(08:55:11 PM) ***ianweller if he's feeling up to it
(08:55:35 PM) VileGent: my other nick is Southern_Gentlem
(08:55:36 PM) ke4qqq: but realistically there's no reason anyone can't
do an event - be it talking to a small group
(08:55:42 PM) ***herlo has a hard time in there with thi high
signal-to-noise ratio, but thinks its a worthwhile effort.  However,
its only one way we can help
(08:56:08 PM) herlo: VileGent: does it sound like we're being
limiting?  i don't want it to come across that way
(08:56:16 PM) inode0: as many here probably promote fedora in #rhel
(08:56:30 PM) ***jds2001 does that
(08:56:33 PM) ke4qqq: VileGent: you sponsor a LUG at a college campus
- I know you have events to report - people to recruit.....etc.
(08:56:36 PM) ***quaid finally gets a good enough connection to finish
reading the buffer
(08:56:48 PM) VileGent: the wording on that page makes it sound very
damg limiting
(08:56:49 PM) ke4qqq: VileGent: what would your alternative wording
be for this page?
(08:57:03 PM) herlo: VileGent: sorry about that, we can fix that for sure...
(08:57:43 PM) herlo: the thing is, we'd like to see your work product
whatever it is, just a quick mention of what you are doing on your
wiki page, an email, etc...
(08:58:21 PM) ***ke4qqq knows that VileGent is active with a ton of
stuff - but when FaMSCo goes to get us money for swag and other things
- we want to show a ROI......
(08:58:27 PM) VileGent: herlo then say that
(08:58:43 PM) herlo: FAmSCo is also asking for more in this regard, I
have a task to prove it :)
(08:58:55 PM) herlo: VileGent: can do
(08:59:17 PM) VileGent: ke4qqq,  i understand but in the greed for
those funds dont make it that being an ambassador becomes a
burueacraatic nitemare
(08:59:33 PM) gregdek_mit: :)
(08:59:37 PM) gregdek_mit: ROI is not absolute.
(08:59:41 PM) gregdek_mit: But there are clear degrees.
(08:59:49 PM) ke4qqq: and I am not saying log every question answered
in #fedora - but at the same time don't let us have to hang out in
#fedora to figure it out either.
(08:59:55 PM) gregdek_mit: One thing that represents *awesome* ROI:
local press coverage at events.
(09:00:08 PM) VileGent: and thats the way i see things going
(09:00:12 PM) inode0: you wouldn't have to hang out there for long
(09:00:24 PM) herlo: gregdek_mit: right, which is part of what I was
after.  I can see that VileGent is correct however, and we need to be
friendly to all sorts of help
(09:00:35 PM) VileGent: laters
(09:01:03 PM) gregdek_mit: VileGent: I'm not running you off, am I?  :)
(09:01:11 PM) inode0: some people are willing talkers, less willing writers
(09:01:19 PM) VileGent: gregdek_mit,  no
(09:01:25 PM) quaid: what about if we talked for each other
(09:01:30 PM) quaid: like karma
(09:01:39 PM) quaid: to give each other props when we see people doing
stuff, etc.
(09:01:44 PM) inode0: +1
(09:01:52 PM) herlo: quaid: I like karma
(09:02:06 PM) herlo: does the wiki have a way of providing this?  Or
can we write a plugin for it?
(09:02:11 PM) herlo: I could see something like
(09:02:14 PM) vwbusguy: herlo, I feel indifferent to it
(09:02:15 PM) iWolf: even karma can miss active ambassadors.
(09:02:18 PM) herlo: {{karma|herlo}}
(09:02:27 PM) quaid: iWolf: ok, so ...
(09:02:31 PM) iWolf: the idea of active ambassadors is a very touchy subject.
(09:02:33 PM) quaid: i. talk about yourself
(09:02:35 PM) quaid: ii. others talk about you
(09:02:39 PM) quaid: what would be iii?
(09:02:40 PM) ke4qqq: and always have been
(09:02:42 PM) ke4qqq: has
(09:02:55 PM) herlo: I don't think there's a way around that discussion, however
(09:03:09 PM) herlo: we want people to be active and if they feel like
their doing their part, that's all we ask
(09:03:20 PM) herlo: but I'd like to share with them the desire to
help them more
(09:03:23 PM) iWolf: "active" is a loaded word.
(09:03:24 PM) ke4qqq: there are almost 600 ambassadors - so being an
ambassador by that definition isn't much.
(09:03:33 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: agreed.
(09:03:36 PM) herlo: and to do that, we need to provide a way to prove
that to famsco
(09:03:58 PM) ke4qqq: even more importantly, we need to know who we
can contact for help.
(09:03:59 PM) herlo: iWolf: have a better phrasing?
(09:04:06 PM) gregdek_mit: !
(09:04:07 PM) inode0: we only have 65 or so, right? not a large number
(09:04:22 PM) ke4qqq: I've sent two dozen emails thus far - received 2 responses
(09:05:00 PM) iWolf: herlo: i'm just saying I've seen how the active
ambassador talk alienates folks.
(09:05:06 PM) ke4qqq: gregdek_mit: ?
(09:05:21 PM) gregdek_mit: It's all about defining terms and being
willing to use them.
(09:05:22 PM) iWolf: often times causing big frustration for valuable
contributors.
(09:05:26 PM) herlo: iWolf: agreed.  I'm trying a better way to word
it, but I can't think of any
(09:05:35 PM) gregdek_mit: Why are people concerned about the notion
of not being considered "active"?
(09:05:47 PM) inode0: isn't
(09:05:50 PM) gregdek_mit: I mean, we can set the bar pretty low.
What's the problem, really?
(09:05:53 PM) herlo: gregdek_mit: I think it comes down to the fact
that we're trying to define it...
(09:05:54 PM) quaid: what about just saying, if you want to be counted
in this way, then stand up and say what you are doing, it helps us
know how to plan budget, etc.
(09:05:55 PM) ke4qqq: loss of status?
(09:06:01 PM) vwbusguy: we talked about this last time
(09:06:10 PM) ke4qqq: quaid: because in 6 months it all changes
(09:06:15 PM) vwbusguy: if there's no contact for 2 months, they go
inactive, right?
(09:06:23 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: how do you mean?
(09:06:26 PM) quaid: what I'm saying is
(09:06:29 PM) iWolf: vwbusguy: not necessarily.
(09:06:34 PM) quaid: create a simple metric process for those who care
(09:06:39 PM) herlo: quaid: read my new statement
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Active
(09:06:44 PM) iWolf: quaid: actually, that might be a good way to approach it.
(09:06:47 PM) quaid: and the fact is, by being involved, they'll get more $ etc.
(09:06:48 PM) vwbusguy: iWolf, general rule, I'm sure there's exceptions
(09:06:59 PM) ke4qqq: we hjave 600 ambassadors who at one point stood
up - now we have fewer than 50 who are standing up by my estimation
(09:07:00 PM) herlo: quaid: rigth on, that's what I was going for...
(09:07:03 PM) iWolf: quaid: just avoid the whole loaded word of "active"
(09:07:04 PM) quaid: but if one doesn't want to do that, it doesn't
mean they are out of the club.
(09:07:08 PM) vwbusguy: iWolf, maybe it should be up to the regional
ambassadors discretion
(09:07:32 PM) ke4qqq: so if I say stand up == Active then we might as
well just not distinguish
(09:07:34 PM) herlo: vwbusguy: oh, I don't know, we're kind of
self-appointed.  nobody agreed to let us run this, we just did it
(09:07:56 PM) iWolf: vwbusguy: i've seen what the active discussion
triggers when it comes up - it is not pretty.
(09:08:01 PM) herlo: and while I am happy to help, I can understand
the frustration of some when change comes
(09:08:04 PM) iWolf: now what quaid has suggested could be useful.
(09:08:28 PM) iWolf: just say we want this info for budget planning
and figuring the future out and not say anything about
active/inactive.
(09:08:44 PM) iWolf: at least we get some feedback that way without
alienating contributors.
(09:08:49 PM) ke4qqq: iwolf: so you make them do it once per quarter?
(09:08:59 PM) herlo: iWolf: is this going to be a constant battle?
(09:09:03 PM) herlo: if we dont
(09:09:18 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: i guess it depends on what we decide is
the way to gather those numbers?
(09:09:27 PM) vwbusguy: we either need to define 'active' or never
mention it again ;)
(09:09:45 PM) inode0: nice change herlo
(09:09:52 PM) quaid: noisy/quiet?
(09:09:54 PM) ke4qqq: gregdek_mit: ?
(09:10:01 PM) iWolf: herlo: I think it will be a constant issue.  Look
at VileGent, we allknow he contributes in all sorts of ways.
(09:10:04 PM) jtaber: I'm new here and may not know soemthing but how
about something like an Ambassador news page where ambassoadors are
encouraged to post their activities - then can see whos' doing what
and acts as encouragement to do more - ie there's a N Texas LUG mtg
next week with an hour installfest - is a Fedora person covering it ?
If not I will with few DVD's
(09:10:25 PM) gregdek_mit: jtaber: That should be the Fedora Events page.
(09:10:39 PM) ke4qqq: jtaber: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events
(09:10:46 PM) iWolf: but whenever we talk active/inactive he will
rebel against it.  There are several others like him.  and then there
are silent members who contribute in valuable ways who might also
rebel against the active/inactive discussion.
(09:10:53 PM) herlo: vwbusguy: and not everyone will be happy with the
defintion, but I guess its a meritocracy, so if you like waht we're
doing, help us, if not, let it be
(09:10:56 PM) inode0: allow the individual ambassador to add
themselves, that act is enough for me, and encourage them to share
some of what they do
(09:11:05 PM) herlo: or change it
(09:11:09 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: for how long?
(09:11:14 PM) jtaber: well maybe, but isnt' that for much larger
events than posting that I gave a lunch talk, blahs..
(09:11:18 PM) herlo: well, this discussion went *way* over time
(09:11:19 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: they did add themselves originally
(09:11:29 PM) ke4qqq: jtaber: no, it's supposed to be for 'everything'
(09:11:39 PM) inode0: yes, and I'm in no hurry as I said last week to
cleanse them from there either
(09:11:42 PM) ***herlo votes we move to the next topic and ke4qqq and
I will come up with topics
(09:11:44 PM) vwbusguy: herlo, I just want to throw out there that if
we draw a line it should be clear
(09:11:57 PM) herlo: vwbusguy: agreed, moving forward?
(09:12:03 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't want that responsibility - to the mailing list?
(09:12:23 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: k, but what I meant was topics to discuss
(09:12:25 PM) herlo: not decide
(09:12:28 PM) BobJensen: Active / Inactive, do away with them ALL and
start over with a clean slate and a clear mission... <-- Former
Ambassador and Former Steering Committee Member
(09:12:31 PM) herlo: so mailing list sounds good to me
(09:12:38 PM) vwbusguy: yeah, but i need to go to bed now.  I'll leave
this on so I can read the rest of the meeting tomorrow.  Night.
(09:12:41 PM) gregdek_mit: Onething.
(09:12:55 PM) iWolf: vwbusguy: g'night!
(09:13:00 PM) gregdek_mit: The *one* valuable purpose for
differentiating between "active" and "inactive" ambassadors...
(09:13:17 PM) gregdek_mit: ...is to allow the leaders to know who to talk to.
(09:13:23 PM) ke4qqq: +1
(09:13:26 PM) gregdek_mit: But if the leaders already have a sense for that...
(09:13:34 PM) herlo: BobJensen: +1
(09:13:36 PM) iWolf: i think the leaders have to rely on a sense of that.
(09:13:53 PM) gregdek_mit: ...if the leaders already have that sense,
then the notion of "active" really isn't necessary.
(09:13:57 PM) iWolf: I have contibutors here who help me for release
parties and OLF, but aren't active on the ambassadors list.
(09:14:03 PM) gregdek_mit: It's just a way of helping yourselves out.
(09:14:05 PM) jds2001: i.e. who shows up to these meetings, etvc
(09:14:08 PM) ***herlo doesn't feel like he has any clue except a few main folk
(09:14:10 PM) BobJensen: An ambassador that lives in a 30 person town
may appear inactive by some standards, what makes them less valuable
in that smaller setting?
(09:14:11 PM) iWolf: I couldn't do what I do without them, though many
would perceive them as inactive.
(09:14:19 PM) ***ke4qqq echoes herlo's feeling
(09:14:20 PM) iWolf: BobJensen: exactly!
(09:14:52 PM) gregdek_mit: So.
(09:14:56 PM) BobJensen: This is the exact reason I walked away from
this crap over a year ago, good luck
(09:14:58 PM) iWolf: herlo: ke4qqq: you'll get a better feel as you
maintain these regional leader positions.  at least for folks you can
count on.
(09:14:59 PM) herlo: I think there are two main problems here
(09:15:40 PM) herlo: one - this is a new group of leadership, and
we're learning.  I am going to make an effort to help, but I need help
too
(09:16:24 PM) quaid: how about a list of names -- bug me/don't bug me
(09:16:37 PM) quaid: the bug me people want to be bugged about shit,
the don't bug me don't
(09:16:45 PM) quaid: so there is no value placed in the terms, etc.
(09:16:56 PM) quaid: or, whatever, pick two other neutral terms, move on
(09:16:59 PM) herlo: and two - some way of tracking this data must
exist at least in an informal way
(09:17:51 PM) herlo: quaid: not horrible, if they wanted to report
something, are they a bug me?
(09:17:59 PM) quaid: herlo: right
(09:18:08 PM) BobJensen: Oh and one other thing, all ambassadors and
the leadership can learn a lot from the European ambassadors, they
work together better than any community I have ever seen.
(09:18:15 PM) iWolf: use the ambassador m-l to bug people. the people
that want to be bugged will respond.
(09:18:23 PM) iWolf: the ones who don't won't respond.
(09:18:29 PM) gregdek_mit: BobJensen: Except for the French.  And the
ones who don't like each other.  ;)
(09:18:37 PM) quaid: it's like ... "We are putting together this
organziation to spend money and move event kits around, if you want to
be part of it, speak up."
(09:19:08 PM) herlo: quaid: is that a bad thing?
(09:19:22 PM) quaid: herlo: no, that is good, and hopefully not offensive
(09:19:23 PM) gregdek_mit: I think that's the way to go.
(09:19:28 PM) herlo: mind you, we're learning here.  I'm looking to
glean from you guys
(09:19:33 PM) herlo: quaid: I rarely get offended
(09:19:35 PM) ke4qqq: +1 quaid
(09:19:44 PM) iWolf: herlo: no, its a fine thing, notice though with
his way we don't alienate "inactive" ambassadors who really are
working in their own way.
(09:19:55 PM) quaid: herlo: no, I mean, unoffensive like the
active.inactive stuff
(09:20:02 PM) herlo: iWolf: I guess I want to see what's out there,
and maybe that will just take time?
(09:20:27 PM) herlo: thing is, we have an aggressive plan to put into
place already and think its a good plan
(09:20:46 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't think that hurts the WDP
(09:20:55 PM) iWolf: herlo: it takes time, for those of us who have
been around for a bit, we've seen how messy the active/inactive
discussions get. avoiding those labels in manners that quaid has
suggested would be good.
(09:20:56 PM) herlo: I can move to a 'less invasive' plan, but we'll
still want to know who's in what state/province
(09:20:57 PM) ke4qqq: we've just eliminated two words from the vocab
(09:21:15 PM) ***herlo moves the page name to List from Active
(09:21:18 PM) iWolf: herlo: you'll learn that over time.
(09:21:21 PM) inode0: the map is excellent, wants to keep it too
(09:21:55 PM) ke4qqq: infrastructure was talking about a new map using
coords from FAS, might be interesting in the future to give citylevel
view
(09:22:27 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: I'd love to have that
(09:22:37 PM) herlo: moving on?
(09:22:42 PM) iWolf: herlo: +1
(09:22:45 PM) ke4qqq: so we don't use inactive/active move on
(09:22:51 PM) inode0: with a goal to hit every state this is a good
resolution to start with I think
(09:22:57 PM) herlo: btw, this was supposed to be an evetns meeting :)
(09:23:23 PM) herlo: new page
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Regions
(09:23:35 PM) herlo: I'll fix the linking later on...
(09:23:42 PM) BobJensen: Oh I have an event, I am helping a buddy
upgrade from F7 - F9 on sunday at his house, want to put that on your
list?
(09:23:51 PM) herlo: Events in NA.
(09:24:01 PM) herlo: BobJensen: no, but you do :)
(09:24:17 PM) BobJensen: herlo: No, I do not, I am simply making a point
(09:24:38 PM) quaid: are you?
(09:24:45 PM) ***herlo doesn't see it
(09:24:51 PM) herlo: I think that's a valid event
(09:24:52 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't either
(09:25:05 PM) gregdek_mit: BobJensen: are you asking for resources?  Help?
(09:25:09 PM) LinuxKnight: an issue of scope it sounds like
(09:25:15 PM) inode0: it may be a valid event but hardly anyone would
want to bother reporting it
(09:25:21 PM) gregdek_mit: What is the purpose of reporting an event?
(09:25:25 PM) ***quaid smells a red herring
(09:25:26 PM) gregdek_mit: From my perspective...
(09:25:32 PM) BobJensen: I am not an ambassador, yet this small
"event" is also important to fedora and a lot of members of the
community including ambassadors do these things.
(09:25:36 PM) herlo: if you don't feel its worth your time to add to
the list, that's okay, but maybe a short blog post about how cool it
was to get his F9 up and running for him?
(09:25:47 PM) herlo: BobJensen: +1
(09:25:51 PM) ke4qqq: and hopefully aggregated on the planet?
(09:26:10 PM) iWolf: gregdek_mit: right now, if an ambassador received
fedora $$$ for an event it is a requirement to report it.
(09:26:31 PM) quaid: BobJensen: do you feel that all this regional
planning somehow detracts from the importance of such things as
helping a buddy upgrade?
(09:28:21 PM) ***quaid smells a red herring that has fallen into the weeds
(09:28:25 PM) jtaber: I think I understand Bob's point - maybe small
scale stuff should be blogged about (ie lunch talk) - bigger stuff (ie
gathering type events reported on events)
(09:28:49 PM) ***herlo has no problem with this..
(09:28:56 PM) inode0: or is it that non-ambassadors are somehow left out?
(09:29:10 PM) BobJensen: quaid: No but helping in this way with out
large or even small group events in my area left me feeling alienated
from the group when I was even on the SC
(09:29:23 PM) herlo: iWolf: correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the
requirement that it somehow be reported?  Blog or email?  or is it
both?
(09:29:27 PM) ke4qqq: non-ambassadors don't receive funding or swag or media.
(09:29:37 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: email to m-l
(09:29:57 PM) inode0: neither do most ambassadors in my short experience
(09:30:01 PM) ***jds2001 thought blog aggregrated on planet
(09:30:02 PM) ***herlo points out that every contributor *is* an
ambassador when they talk with others who they'd like to be a part of
Fedora
(09:30:18 PM) iWolf: herlo: yes, if you receive funds it is required
to report to the m-l and a blog post that is aggregated to planet.
(09:30:29 PM) herlo: both it is!
(09:30:33 PM) _sj_: herlo: +1
(09:30:39 PM) ke4qqq: moving on?
(09:31:00 PM) ***herlo has some things to revamp, but is excited for
the new developments
(09:31:04 PM) herlo: next topic
(09:31:13 PM) herlo: Events in NA.
(09:31:26 PM) herlo: first previous events, who was at Lindependence
(09:31:30 PM) herlo: ooh and LWE too
(09:32:11 PM) herlo: I'd like to know what was good and what was bad
at these events so we can do better with the Fedora booth at future
events...
(09:32:28 PM) quaid: I was at Lindependence; Larry is at the ball game
tonight watching the Giants murder the Braves (AIUI), so he cannot
report
(09:32:40 PM) quaid: we did some traffic to the list on that, do you
want a recap of that?
(09:32:46 PM) quaid: or ... something more distilled?
(09:33:06 PM) ke4qqq: no more of what we could have done to have a
better presence
(09:33:07 PM) herlo: a succinct email would be nice maybe?
(09:33:23 PM) ke4qqq: for instance - a wireless AP
(09:33:27 PM) ke4qqq: which I didn't see in the email
(09:33:30 PM) herlo: but yeah, about things you did to prepare that
worked well and things that didn't
(09:33:33 PM) ke4qqq: or maybe that was oscon
(09:33:38 PM) quaid: I see, yeah
(09:33:53 PM) quaid: do we have an event report checklist?
suggestions on what to cover in a report?
(09:34:00 PM) ***ke4qqq will be happy with an email
(09:34:13 PM) ke4qqq: no but it sounds like a great task - shall I add
that for you quaid?
(09:34:16 PM) ke4qqq: :)
(09:34:18 PM) iWolf: quaid: yes.
(09:34:47 PM) iWolf: quaid:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReportingGuidelines
(09:34:49 PM) zodbot: <http://tinyurl.com/6b34jf> (at fedoraproject.org)
(09:35:09 PM) quaid: ah, thx
(09:35:54 PM) quaid: I still owe my OSCON report, so I can go hit it
with that format
(09:36:05 PM) quaid: and do the same for what I know of Lindependence and LWCE
(09:36:07 PM) herlo: quaid: you rock
(09:36:15 PM) inode0: !
(09:36:24 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't know that what could be done better is
in the guidelines but will edit for that shortly
(09:36:31 PM) BobJensen: herlo: quaid always rocks
(09:36:49 PM) herlo: BobJensen: sure sure, agreed
(09:37:10 PM) BobJensen: GN and Good luck all
(09:37:15 PM) quaid: ciao BobJensen
(09:37:20 PM) quaid: inode0: ?
(09:37:23 PM) inode0: FAD @ OLF? Still being considered?
(09:37:50 PM) gregdek_mit: Looks like I need to get out.  I'm being
kicked out.  :)
(09:37:57 PM) iWolf: inode0: yes, i've just been slow to get that post out.
(09:37:58 PM) jds2001: lol
(09:38:04 PM) herlo: iWolf: I'd like to request an additional
requirement / suggestion for the ReportingGuidelines if I may
(09:38:06 PM) iWolf: inode0: totally, my fault and still on my list.
(09:38:09 PM) quaid: gregdek_mit: we had that, but we went upstairs to hide :)
(09:38:43 PM) herlo: iWolf: in the email to f-a-l coudl we have a
little 'what I liked' and 'what I didn't like' section about how
things went?
(09:39:02 PM) iWolf: herlo: that sounds fair to me and offers a way
for others to learn from someone elses experiences.
(09:39:39 PM) herlo: right, and I think it should be a suggestion
though...I'd like it as a requirement, but I don't know that it will
be a good idea...
(09:40:09 PM) herlo: okay, so we're tasking quaid  and lcafiero with
event reports if not already done right?
(09:40:17 PM) iWolf: herlo: with the reporting guidelines we tried not
to make it *too* formal, mainly a list of things to help get one
started with their event report.
(09:40:42 PM) herlo: iWolf: fair enough
(09:40:47 PM) ke4qqq: oscon? were reports passed about it - I may have
missed them.
(09:41:00 PM) iWolf: herlo: we can always push for that info in blog
comments or replies to m-l posts though.
(09:41:06 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: I think quaid said he was behind
(09:41:08 PM) iWolf: herlo: as i agree its good info and good feedback.
(09:41:21 PM) herlo: iWolf: I'll do that in the future.  quaid watch out man :)
(09:41:23 PM) LinuxKnight: ke4qqq, i posted a quick blurb about OSCON
but not a big formal thing
(09:41:41 PM) ***ke4qqq will look in his mail shortly for it
(09:41:53 PM) herlo: moving forward then?
(09:42:12 PM) ke4qqq: yes
(09:42:23 PM) herlo: UTOSC is coming up at the end of the month, this
is my event.  I've been given funds to do with what I wish.  How do
most of you spend your moneys
(09:42:40 PM) quaid: not lcafiero, he did his duty I think
(09:42:51 PM) herlo: stickster_afk suggested that I use much of it to
fly in and/or lodging for non-local ambassadors
(09:43:06 PM) herlo: and the rest for posters, stickers and what-not.
Is this pretty normal?
(09:43:11 PM) gregdek_mit: IME, yes.
(09:43:19 PM) ke4qqq: hmmmm
(09:43:21 PM) herlo: I've got hundresds of Media
(09:43:53 PM) herlo: and I'd like to experiment with ambassador kits
so I'll probably purchase tshirts a plenty as well...
(09:43:55 PM) iWolf: herlo: i think it depends on how many ambassadors
you have.  to me, travel expenses to get lots of ambassadors to a
booth isn't necessarily the best use of money - just my opinion
though.
(09:44:31 PM) herlo: iWolf: how would you use it?  I've got Paul and
Jared, I won't really be available because I am also the organizer of
this event
(09:44:37 PM) iWolf: herlo: for OLF we rely on ambassadors that make
it there on their own.  we had 3 ambassadors the first year we did it
and like 7 the following year.
(09:44:59 PM) iWolf: herlo: we went the t-shirt route, stickers and
some flyers the first year we did it.
(09:45:28 PM) iWolf: herlo: I think we had around 75 t-shirts, 1000
stickers and then Max had hooked us up with lots of media.
(09:45:46 PM) ke4qqq: iwolf but media becomes our responsibility in q3
(09:45:52 PM) herlo: iWolf: okay, maybe I'll save enough for that sort
of thing then.  I've got one guy who's not an ambassador who's local
too, maybe I'll get him a fedora t to wear.
(09:46:21 PM) iWolf: herlo: I did that our first year too, I had a guy
who was not an ambassdor work the booth, he was great and is now an
ambassador.
(09:46:28 PM) herlo: okay, thanks for the ideas.  Looking forward to
the next reports to help learn...
(09:46:38 PM) herlo: iWolf: I hope he'll come on board.  Seems excited
(09:46:40 PM) ***_sj_ is away... 'night all
(09:46:52 PM) ***jds2001 heads to bed too
(09:46:55 PM) herlo: moving on
(09:46:59 PM) jds2001: been working since 6AM
(09:47:04 PM) iWolf: jds2001: g'night!
(09:47:07 PM) herlo: that's it actually, any other discussions we
should be having?
(09:47:25 PM) quaid: hmm, one other thing, but it's a bit late for
discussion on it :)
(09:47:30 PM) quaid: so i could bring it to the list
(09:47:36 PM) quaid: the short of it is,
(09:47:39 PM) inode0: throw it out at least :)
(09:47:55 PM) quaid: I want this LWCE to be the _last_ event
(09:48:11 PM) quaid: that is decided by fiat or because RHT budgeted
it or somethng.
(09:48:33 PM) quaid: over the years ,because I think RHT is based in
NA, shows have been overshadowed by their 'help'
(09:48:50 PM) ke4qqq: +1
(09:49:07 PM) quaid: so my thing is, I want us to wipe the slate on shows
(09:49:27 PM) quaid: say there is nothing that is an automatic "In"
without going through the NA regional + FAMSCo process
(09:49:53 PM) quaid: next year, I expect to be arguing for budget for
LWCE v. figuring we'll just be there.
(09:50:00 PM) quaid: does that make sense?
(09:50:08 PM) ke4qqq: yes
(09:50:10 PM) inode0: is sympathetic - does Red Hat approve?
(09:51:36 PM) quaid: inode0: well, that's sort of the thing ... no one
really "owns" this at RHT outside of gregdek_mit, jack, max, myself,
harish, sankarshan, etc.
(09:51:45 PM) herlo: quaid: I'd encourage that sort of thinking.
We're doing what we can to become independent and use the money we get
responsibly.  LWE seems to be an event that Fedora Ambassadors can
plan and run
(09:52:14 PM) quaid: herlo: right, and it's e.g. my job to help
coordinate *if* RHT is there and could e.g. ship some stuff for us
from Raleigh, etc.
(09:52:16 PM) inode0: then Red Hat seems sympathetic too
(09:52:17 PM) herlo: is there a big hurdle here we have to jump?
(09:52:29 PM) quaid: herlo: for LWE?
(09:52:48 PM) herlo: sure, or any other event in this same boat (save RHS)
(09:52:54 PM) quaid: inode0: yeah, I think EMEA/APAC/LATAM success has
shown where the "how to" is at :)
(09:53:18 PM) quaid: herlo: I think the one show that is RHT's to run
is the FUDCon, as that is RHT's gift back to the community
(09:53:44 PM) herlo: what about RedHat Summit? don't Fedora members go
to this a bit too?
(09:54:07 PM) inode0: especially now but they always did
(09:54:11 PM) herlo: but I'm happy they give back...
(09:55:03 PM) quaid: herlo: sure, FUDCon + Summit is a fairly fixed
ideal, although as we see it's not the only place for a FUDCon.
(09:55:05 PM) inode0: sounds like general agreement in principle then
(09:55:15 PM) quaid: ok, cool
(09:55:20 PM) herlo: quaid: which is why I separated them...
(09:55:25 PM) herlo: but yes, I digress
(09:55:32 PM) herlo: any other issues to discuss?
(09:55:53 PM) herlo: EOF


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