[Ambassadors] NA Ambassadors Meeting 2008-08-27 IRC Log

[inode0]

(08:01:04 PM) ke4qqq: roll call
(08:01:30 PM) ***inode0 is here
(08:01:36 PM) ***LinuxKnight here
(08:01:41 PM) ***lcafiero plays the role of Larry Cafiero
(08:01:45 PM) ***DemonJester here
(08:02:32 PM) ke4qqq: alright - well others will drift in
(08:02:42 PM) ke4qqq: iWolf: here?
(08:03:08 PM) ke4qqq: so no famsco update
(08:03:10 PM) ke4qqq: next item
(08:03:14 PM) ke4qqq: tasks
(08:03:20 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: status of emails?
(08:03:35 PM) inode0: all sent, no new replies
(08:03:51 PM) themayor: yo yo
(08:04:11 PM) inode0: guess I got about a 1 in 5 response
(08:04:15 PM) ke4qqq: ok no new news on me either
(08:04:29 PM) ke4qqq: clint is not here
(08:04:38 PM) ke4qqq: so we'll skip his tasks
(08:04:43 PM) ***iWolf wanders in late
(08:04:44 PM) inode0: can you hear is now?
(08:04:48 PM) inode0: us
(08:04:51 PM) themayor: yeah
(08:04:56 PM) themayor: what i was banned from the channel
(08:05:01 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhhh iWolf update on famsco?
(08:05:13 PM) ke4qqq: no, we entered left several time - almost like netsplit
(08:05:19 PM) ke4qqq: s/we/you/
(08:05:24 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: meeting canceled again, finally looks
like we are getting our act together this week for a meeting tomorrow.
(08:05:46 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: idk, console told me i was banned from
seeing whats in chan
(08:05:46 PM) iWolf: the budget is nearing finalization, the draft was
posted to the ambassadors list and I haven't seen any major
objections.
(08:05:49 PM) themayor: but its all good now
(08:06:02 PM) ke4qqq: cool.
(08:06:02 PM) ***stickster logging but can't hang out tonight guys --
gotta pack for UTOSC
(08:06:22 PM) stickster is now known as stickster_afk
(08:06:24 PM) ke4qqq: to give people an idea of what's going on with media
(08:06:53 PM) ke4qqq: we are hoping to pool Q3 NA money to get at
least one run (of 3000) and possibly two for F10
(08:07:41 PM) inode0: there is an event box note too
(08:07:51 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh yes
(08:07:54 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: update us
(08:08:23 PM) inode0: dell & hp have been contacted about contributing
small notebooks for use in event boxes
(08:08:34 PM) inode0: initial reaction from both seemed very positive
(08:08:45 PM) inode0: but nothing definite yet
(08:09:08 PM) inode0: OLPC is about to be contacted too
(08:09:42 PM) ke4qqq: cool
(08:09:47 PM) ke4qqq: anything else on that front?
(08:09:54 PM) inode0: not from me
(08:10:11 PM) dgilmore: inode0: if you need me to ill poke people at
OLPC for you
(08:10:13 PM) ke4qqq: ok herlo's missing so
(08:10:18 PM) ke4qqq: dgilmore: please do
(08:10:27 PM) ke4qqq: we want to attract OLPC contributors too
(08:10:38 PM) inode0: thanks dgilmore - I'll go through normal
channels first and see how that goes
(08:10:42 PM) ke4qqq: iWolf: FAD?
(08:11:24 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: i did not get my blog post out, but i saw
at least two of you did, and yours had good detail.  I will get one
out this upcoming week, just to keep the idea fresh in everyone's
mind.
(08:11:29 PM) ***CB6 is new to ambassadors (first meeting)
(08:11:31 PM) vwbusguy: hello
(08:11:33 PM) ke4qqq: cool
(08:11:38 PM) inode0: welcome CB6
(08:11:40 PM) ke4qqq: which brings me to my task -
(08:11:45 PM) ke4qqq: welcome CB6
(08:11:51 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: we also need to get the start of an
agenda as well, i can start that discussion on teh ambassador m-l.
(08:11:52 PM) lcafiero: I still need to blog -- haven't blogged all week
(08:11:59 PM) ke4qqq: cool
(08:12:09 PM) ke4qqq: adds TASK: to iwolf
(08:12:24 PM) ***iWolf accepts task
(08:12:31 PM) ke4qqq: I was supposed to get people on the planet - and
I have 50% of them up
(08:12:41 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: and jtaber I failed to get done
(08:13:18 PM) ke4qqq: but hopefully soon
(08:13:38 PM) crossbytes: well this is my first meeting .. so just
fill me in... was a little late
(08:13:43 PM) ke4qqq: as a followup of the three who volunteered at
least one got their blog post about FAD done. kudos to Brian Powell
(08:13:56 PM) ke4qqq: crossbytes: welcome - we are going through the
task list right now
(08:14:01 PM) ke4qqq: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA
(08:14:11 PM) ke4qqq: and we are following this agenda
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-08-27
(08:15:03 PM) ke4qqq: we've had a lot of editing on:
(08:15:20 PM) ke4qqq:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/Expectations
(08:15:24 PM) lcafiero: +1
(08:15:35 PM) ke4qqq: any want to discuss must/should/coulds?
(08:16:20 PM) inode0: needs more time to add/edit that - 1st week of
school is hectic and I didn't get to it
(08:16:46 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: will you lead a discussion on the
mailing list and edit yourself?
(08:17:35 PM) inode0: not sure what you are asking - I pretty much
covered my thoughts on this last week
(08:17:51 PM) ke4qqq: ok
(08:17:59 PM) ke4qqq: you just need time ot edit?
(08:18:19 PM) inode0: would like to see coulds/shoulds more abstract,
with items under each abstraction enumerating examples
(08:18:55 PM) inode0: I can post an example to the mailing list to see
what you think
(08:19:11 PM) ke4qqq: ahhh cool
(08:19:12 PM) inode0: in a nutshell
(08:19:27 PM) DemonJester: how about just combining the 2 categories
since they all but mean the same anyways?
(08:19:28 PM) inode0: one should would be "communicate with other about Fedora"
(08:19:28 PM) ke4qqq: I just want to see if we can generate additional
editing/discussion before we rip off the draft tag
(08:19:44 PM) inode0: blogging, irc, talks, etc. would be examples
(08:20:47 PM) inode0: I'll post something for discussion to the list
(08:20:58 PM) ke4qqq: ok - we'll move on now - bring it up again next
week and maybe strip the draft tag
(08:21:33 PM) ke4qqq: looks like it's time for Education talk - themayor?
(08:21:40 PM) themayor: yo yo
(08:21:54 PM) themayor: okay so i sent my piece to the list last week
(08:22:15 PM) themayor: and ive culled from the responses what people
are discontent over
(08:22:49 PM) themayor: and i guess first i would like for anyone here
to bring up their points and then i can address them and then move on
to my general reaction
(08:23:28 PM) ke4qqq: I think our concern is two fold generally
(speaking only for myself)
(08:23:46 PM) ke4qqq: 1. unlike other areas people aren't welcome to
jump into help with this.
(08:23:59 PM) ke4qqq: which gives the impression of it not being open
(08:24:08 PM) ke4qqq: and all manner of bad mojo follows
(08:24:10 PM) ke4qqq: and 2.
(08:24:15 PM) themayor: yup
(08:24:39 PM) lcafiero: [dragging up my e-mail to list]
(08:24:42 PM) ke4qqq: it appears some of the events are being
"limited" (as opposed to targeted) to "elite" schools/students
(08:25:11 PM) themayor: true
(08:25:13 PM) themayor: is that all?
(08:25:19 PM) DemonJester: Most would also like to know who the "we"
is throughout your post.
(08:25:42 PM) ke4qqq: themayor: it is all for me, others may have thoughts
(08:25:53 PM) themayor: we is me and the other people at red hat,
mainly, community architecture team and the new red hat academy folks
(08:26:18 PM) DemonJester: clear enough, thank you.
(08:26:20 PM) ke4qqq: who are the RH academy folks?
(08:26:27 PM) inode0: I don't feel like repeating my response, I'll listen
(08:27:15 PM) themayor: the head of the rh academy team is mark howson
(08:27:27 PM) themayor: they are completely re-doing the program
(08:27:53 PM) themayor: the details of which arent really relevant to
this conversation except for the fact that they are trying to forge
partnerships with schools as well
(08:27:53 PM) inode0: that is good to hear
(08:28:21 PM) lcafiero: "schools" are colleges, or high schools/middle
schools as well?
(08:28:28 PM) themayor: also part of that re-doing might be tangential
to fedora stuff but its not clear yet
(08:28:37 PM) themayor: colleges and elite high schools
(08:28:43 PM) lcafiero: Ah.
(08:28:52 PM) themayor: okay im gonna go ahead and address both your points
(08:28:56 PM) themayor: first 1
(08:29:32 PM) themayor: the reason things are the way they are has no
subversive or malicious or exclusionary pretext to it
(08:30:15 PM) themayor: everything i am working on now is for better
or worse meant to be a pilot and a yardstick to figure out the right
way to involve these institutions
(08:30:16 PM) ***quaid sighs at himself and is here
(08:30:34 PM) themayor: both red hat and fedora have attempted things
like this before and they have not worked
(08:30:41 PM) themayor: granted on a smaller scalle
(08:30:46 PM) themayor: and very unorganized
(08:31:26 PM) themayor: the reason that i sort of have the reigns on
this stuff is because someone needs to be held accountable, from both
red hat and the community side of things, to see that the goals that
are set out are accomplished
(08:31:52 PM) themayor: those goals right now are put together a pilot
program that we can at 6 months from inception measure success or
failure
(08:32:22 PM) themayor: help might be needed from people running
ambassadors, simply because people have connections
(08:33:07 PM) themayor: so lets say 6 months down the road we figure
out some things and everything is going relatively well more or less,
we can, and PLAN on begin involving ambassadors and the like
(08:33:08 PM) lcafiero: (raising hand)
(08:33:44 PM) themayor: the main point is, i was around from the
beginning of ambassadors and we've learned from alot of the mistakes
and i want to try and not repeat those
(08:34:39 PM) themayor: just like ambassadors started with one person
taking initiative and letting it grow, i think the education outreach
should work the same way, and trying side step and to head off some of
the growing pains down the road that we learned from ambassadors
(08:34:42 PM) themayor: lcafiero: yes
(08:35:55 PM) lcafiero: I'd like to ask a question once themayor is finished.
(08:36:00 PM) ke4qqq: themayor: I don't think there is any objection
to you leading the effort - I think the concern is that others aren't
allowed to contribute to the pilot.
(08:36:46 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: others can contribute so long as we
stay within the goals
(08:37:27 PM) themayor: it will be mighty hard to have 100 people
chasing down 100 schools and trying to get things to work each by his
own accord and have someone be accountable for all that at once
(08:37:45 PM) ke4qqq: ok, perhaps the question is better phrased not
that they aren't able to - but how do they contribute and help you?
(08:38:32 PM) themayor: okay
(08:38:43 PM) lcafiero: Coordination is good, and as I outlined on the
list, we already have 1 (Curriculum) and 2 (Campus Reps) in place.
(08:38:55 PM) quaid: themayor: could it be as simple as you keeping an
active update and wiki page going?
(08:39:00 PM) lcafiero: At the college at which I attend.
(08:39:10 PM) quaid: that way people are watching out and heling with
information and offers to step in for this and that.
(08:39:25 PM) quaid: "Oh, you are talking with Exwhyzed U, I know the
CTO there." that kind fo thing
(08:39:55 PM) themayor: so once we get started with all this, once we
have targeted objectives, and the complete list of institutions, we
will no doubt have a task list that i will need help with
(08:40:00 PM) themayor: and yes, there will be a wiki page
(08:40:05 PM) lcafiero: +1
(08:40:06 PM) quaid: ... and you make it clear there, "Please don't go
representing this effort without coordinating with Jack first, middle,
and last."
(08:40:38 PM) lcafiero: ?
(08:40:47 PM) inode0: yeah
(08:40:48 PM) ke4qqq: that's the other thing - I am hitting some
colleges - one I am coordinating with quaid quite a bit on - how do I
ensure I am not stepping on toes in my efforts?
(08:41:15 PM) quaid: 'zactly!
(08:41:24 PM) inode0: we just represent Fedora?!
(08:41:33 PM) DemonJester: +1
(08:41:43 PM) themayor: for example, right now, if someone would want
to get together with me later in the week or next week to start
putting this stuff on the wiki, that would be appreciated
(08:42:05 PM) quaid: inode0: if you are referring to what I said with
represent, by "this effort" I mean the SIG (for lack of a better word)
that Jack is leading.
(08:42:15 PM) ke4qqq: right - but I am pitching that the class adopt
some fedora documentation - they did OO.o docs last semester - thats a
bit more than showing off Fedora
(08:42:16 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: i dont know what your efforts are, so i cant say
(08:42:38 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: good point ... we haven't told anyone
else about that either :D
(08:42:47 PM) ***ke4qqq is just as guilty
(08:43:04 PM) quaid: I think there is obviously a lot of effort going
on that is *not* at cross purposes
(08:43:10 PM) quaid: and we just want to put it all on a  page somewhere
(08:43:14 PM) quaid: so it doesn't start crossing :)
(08:43:45 PM) themayor: yes, i agree, our problem is just some
fundamental miscommunication
(08:43:46 PM) quaid: themayor: drop by #fedora-docs anytime and one of
us will be glad to help; there are right ways and wrong ways to do
wiki pages, would love to help get yours over that hump.
(08:43:55 PM) ke4qqq: ok - themayor - I'll volunteer to help you with
getting wikipage up
(08:44:14 PM) ke4qqq: and I'll try and forward you the emails I have
exchanged with quaid to get you up to speed.
(08:44:23 PM) themayor: quaid: sure, ill make some time later this
week on friday perhaps, tomorrow is pretty busy and thursday is a few
meetings
(08:45:35 PM) ke4qqq: ok any else have questions for themayor?
(08:45:39 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: nod, thanks
(08:45:50 PM) themayor: also, i just want to quickly re-address point #2
(08:45:54 PM) ke4qqq: sure
(08:45:54 PM) lcafiero: Yes: On 3. Red Hat High
(08:45:57 PM) ke4qqq: sorry
(08:46:02 PM) lcafiero: (yielding to themayor )
(08:46:35 PM) themayor: okay so as far as what it seems, being
exclusionary with regards to elite high schools
(08:46:46 PM) themayor: again, its not exclusionary, we want to try it
out with them, and then move on
(08:47:03 PM) themayor: if you have some pretty brightly shining
examples it will be easier for others to latch on
(08:47:44 PM) themayor: i understand that people right now might have
connections
(08:47:57 PM) themayor: and i plan on taking full advantage of that in
the months to come
(08:48:21 PM) inode0: quaid: I am happy to work with Red Hat on its
programs whether they intersect with Fedora or not. I still honestly
see this as a Red Hat program and don't think we should stop
interacting with academia waiting for it to unfold.
(08:48:23 PM) themayor: but for right now, we just need to tip-toe
carefully, lay a solid foundation and go up from there
(08:48:24 PM) lcafiero: So you want to try it out with elite HS with
the possibility/probability of expanding it
(08:48:36 PM) ***lcafiero has connections with non-elite schools
(08:48:40 PM) themayor: yes, the goal is to expand it
(08:48:48 PM) lcafiero: thanks
(08:48:53 PM) themayor: also the elite high schools work well right
now because they buy us some awesome press
(08:48:55 PM) ke4qqq: so the goal is to say $eliteschool doesn't why aren't you?
(08:49:33 PM) themayor: well something like that, i mean we dont want
to rub it in peoples face and make it seem condescending, but yeah,
people are influenced by perception
(08:49:51 PM) themayor: if it goes well and its in the press, rest
assured other teachers will read it and say hey, i want in
(08:50:15 PM) ke4qqq: interessant.
(08:50:22 PM) themayor: and with education, the one lesson ive learned
above all else, you need to play a little hard to get, unfortunately
(08:50:33 PM) themayor: because teachers dont like being told what and
how to teach
(08:50:50 PM) themayor: so we need them to want to come to us
(08:51:01 PM) themayor: and rightfully so, we dont want to tell them
what or how to teach
(08:51:32 PM) themayor: we just want to make the point that unless you
are giving your students exposure to as much technology as possible,
you are cheating them and giving them a sub-par education
(08:51:52 PM) quaid: open source technology :D
(08:52:02 PM) ke4qqq: ahhh that type of 'strategy' was what I was missing
(08:52:20 PM) themayor: if you go to a school to try and sell them,
you will 100% get spit on
(08:52:28 PM) themayor: i know, ive been talking to them for a couple
months npow
(08:52:33 PM) ke4qqq: didn't realize the method to the
'madness'.......makes more sense now.
(08:52:34 PM) inode0: that fits into the thinking of vocation
education better than it does higher education in my experience
(08:52:46 PM) ke4qqq: so how do you convince $eliteschool to start with you?
(08:53:12 PM) themayor: well so what I've personally been doing is
working on securing partnerships with hardware vendors
(08:53:34 PM) ricky: Students are a more effective resources than most
people might think.
(08:53:35 PM) themayor: and telling these schools, listen money is
tight, we understand, we are working with $vendor and might be able to
secure you guys free hardware for a couple years
(08:53:59 PM) themayor: that works for some universities too but not all
(08:54:33 PM) themayor: on the university front, we will need campus
ambassadors to be self-starters and identify the proper way to go
about approaching each school
(08:54:34 PM) ricky: Because that's what it comes down to at the end..
(08:54:43 PM) themayor: ricky: yup, exactly
(08:54:52 PM) lcafiero: +1
(08:55:03 PM) ricky: What I said applies to high schools as much as it
does colleges
(08:55:35 PM) ricky: Also, students have access to parents, which is nice ;-)
(08:55:38 PM) themayor: ricky: to a certain extent yes, but you are
the exception not the rule
(08:56:06 PM) inode0: there are more exceptions out there if we find them
(08:56:07 PM) ricky: In elite high schools, there are some
surprisingly amazing students.
(08:56:18 PM) themayor: yes, thats why we are starting with elite high schools
(08:56:28 PM) inode0: in non-elite high schools there are too
(08:56:33 PM) themayor: inode0: well thats why we are trying a pilot
to try and find them
(08:56:59 PM) ricky: My generic example is TJ.  The students there run
the school's infrastructure.  They should have the leadership and
influence to help push stuff like this.
(08:57:10 PM) inode0: themayor: serious question
(08:57:14 PM) themayor: okay go
(08:57:29 PM) themayor: ricky: one of the prime schools im working
with is going to be TJ
(08:57:33 PM) themayor: already spoke to them a few times
(08:57:40 PM) themayor: and its great paul is right down the block from them
(08:57:45 PM) ricky: That's wonderful to hera.
(08:57:46 PM) ricky: **hear
(08:57:56 PM) ***ricky admits being sooooo jealous of them.
(08:57:56 PM) inode0: if I go to my local high school and engage
students some of whom might join Fedora how can that interfere in any
way with what you are doing?
(08:58:03 PM) themayor: it doesnt
(08:58:11 PM) themayor: not at all
(08:58:13 PM) ricky: I may also have connections with previous TJ
students at CMU.
(08:58:36 PM) inode0: follow-up
(08:58:58 PM) themayor: go
(08:59:04 PM) inode0: if the NA ambassadors or all ambassadors embark
in a concerted way to do the same?
(08:59:25 PM) themayor: okay, so one or two people doesnt hurt
(08:59:31 PM) themayor: but en masse, we are just promoting chaos
(09:00:03 PM) ke4qqq: one or two people must mean miniscule chaos still
(09:00:16 PM) themayor: controlled chaos is fine
(09:00:23 PM) ke4qqq: but at the same time if I recruit 3 ianwellers,
that's not bad -
(09:00:25 PM) themayor: there will always be some element of the unknown
(09:00:28 PM) inode0: how does promoting Fedora and recruiting new
contributors equate to chaos?
(09:00:33 PM) themayor: it doesnt
(09:00:40 PM) themayor: inode0: we are talking at two different levels
(09:00:46 PM) themayor: im talking about the institutional level
(09:00:53 PM) themayor: and you are talking at the populace level
(09:01:00 PM) themayor: which in fact, the two complement each other
(09:01:15 PM) inode0: the institution being Fedora or an educational
institution?
(09:01:16 PM) themayor: im working top down and you are taking the
bottom up approach
(09:01:21 PM) themayor: educational
(09:01:45 PM) themayor: im not against going out and talking to students at all
(09:01:52 PM) themayor: i wouldnt stop anyone from doing that
(09:01:55 PM) inode0: so I'm not following why a concerted effort by
ambassadors would be a problem
(09:02:31 PM) ricky: A concerted effort with the goal of getting
students to contribute to Fedora probably wouldn't be, if I'm
understanding what he's saying
(09:02:40 PM) themayor: correct
(09:02:46 PM) ricky: A concerted effort to talk to school
administration to set stuff up might be
(09:02:48 PM) themayor: raising awareness is never off limits
(09:02:51 PM) themayor: thats what ambassadors do
(09:02:53 PM) inode0: well he did just say it would be chaos :)
(09:03:23 PM) themayor: i didnt mean it in that way exactly
(09:03:30 PM) inode0: ok
(09:04:09 PM) themayor: inode0: i guess to put it simply, i think that
we are trying to achieve 100% all at once, and i think we need to take
a more tempered and measured approach
(09:04:23 PM) ke4qqq: we are at 63 minutes -anyone else with something
for themayor or themayor for us?
(09:04:59 PM) themayor: i dont have anything to add, but will put up
some actions items that i'll be responsible for
(09:05:11 PM) themayor: so the main thing being putting all this stuff
up on wiki
(09:05:36 PM) themayor: and clearly making the task list visible so
that where there is room for volunteers people can help
(09:05:48 PM) ke4qqq: outstanding, thanks for coming themayor
(09:05:53 PM) ricky: Would it be a bad idea to put a list of
institutions up as well?
(09:06:02 PM) themayor: no thats included obviously
(09:06:03 PM) ke4qqq: do they know they are bieng targeted?
(09:06:08 PM) ricky: OK
(09:06:12 PM) themayor: the ones that are i will put up
(09:06:43 PM) ke4qqq: cool - lcafiero ready to push on with media?
(09:07:00 PM) themayor: i need to leave in like 15 minutes
(09:09:09 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: proceed
(09:09:24 PM) lcafiero: If I may, I'd like to discuss item 5
(09:09:39 PM) ke4qqq: go ahead
(09:10:07 PM) lcafiero: Thanks. I'm putting together a wiki about how
to deal with the news media at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Draft/NewsMedia_HowTo
(09:10:23 PM) lcafiero: (note to quaid -- is that the right format for a draft?)
(09:10:49 PM) lcafiero: As it is a draft, I just have an outline there
now, but I will be filling it in and expect to have it done in the
next two weeks.
(09:11:02 PM) lcafiero: As a matter of background, I've been in
journalism for the last 31 years.
(09:11:16 PM) lcafiero: (not terribly proud of the profession lately,
but that's another matter)
(09:11:41 PM) lcafiero: And the wiki will be a resource for
ambassadors to use to capitalize on media coverage for events around
Fedora
(09:11:50 PM) lcafiero: in their own areas.
(09:12:12 PM) lcafiero: I hope to finish a first draft by next meeting.
(09:12:36 PM) ke4qqq: sooooo - lcafiero is in the industry - so he is
a a defacto subject matter expert....
(09:12:53 PM) lcafiero: question to ke4qqq -- where do you get the
draft box on wikis to signify it's a draft (like on the expectations
page)
(09:13:14 PM) ke4qqq: I'll show you the code after the meeting
(09:13:21 PM) lcafiero: Okay.
(09:13:29 PM) inode0: this is really excellent
(09:13:37 PM) ke4qqq: yeah it's very good
(09:13:50 PM) ke4qqq: I am hoping lcafiero fleshes it out quite a bit
(09:14:05 PM) lcafiero: Has anyone had any dealings with the media yet
and would like to reflect them in the wiki, I'd like to discuss it
(09:14:13 PM) inode0: might be of great interest to marketing too
(09:14:16 PM) lcafiero: It will be expanded from the current outline
(09:14:28 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: yep
(09:14:44 PM) inode0: I suspect most of just don't have a clue about
dealing with media so don't
(09:14:44 PM) lcafiero: That's about all from me, unless anyone has questions.
(09:14:53 PM) inode0: most of us
(09:14:57 PM) themayor: i have experience with media
(09:15:03 PM) lcafiero: Well, a lot of the "how to" books are pretty
laughable when we in the profession read them.
(09:15:24 PM) themayor: and i believe the general stance is we should
get stuff cleared with someone before we do anything with media
(09:15:36 PM) themayor: with certain exceptions
(09:16:02 PM) lcafiero: What this wiki deals with is how to write
press releases, when and when not to contact editors, etc.
(09:16:07 PM) ke4qqq: thats been the exact opposite of what we have
talked about with gdk and spevack
(09:16:09 PM) lcafiero: Nuts and bolts stuff
(09:16:21 PM) ke4qqq: they've been all for us charging forward
(09:16:27 PM) ke4qqq: is there a policy somewhere on this
(09:17:13 PM) ke4qqq: ?
(09:17:27 PM) lcafiero: What to do and not to do on radio and television
(09:17:34 PM) inode0: and who is the clearinghouse?
(09:17:38 PM) lcafiero: question ke4qqq
(09:17:42 PM) ke4qqq: yes
(09:17:47 PM) lcafiero: okay, shoot
(09:18:06 PM) ***inode0 thinks he already asked it
(09:18:15 PM) ke4qqq: before we go stirring the hornets nest is there
a policy on this: quaid? themayor?
(09:18:52 PM) themayor: i dont know, thats been my personal policy
(09:18:57 PM) inode0: what lcafiero is doing is fine - we need this
information regardless
(09:19:03 PM) ke4qqq: I agree -
(09:19:10 PM) ke4qqq: but if there is a policy we wnat to reference it
(09:19:24 PM) lcafiero: If I may: My understanding is that this is for
events, e.g. F10 parties, where we might want to invite the press in
local areas where parties/installfests are happening
(09:20:10 PM) lcafiero: I do need to know if there's a policy around
the release of that information, as far as Fedora is concerned.
(09:20:12 PM) ke4qqq: well it's certainly for that, but possibly more
(09:20:23 PM) themayor: i think thats okay
(09:20:37 PM) lcafiero: However, to use Cabrillo College as an
example, we would go ahead and make a release about it anyway from the
LUG.
(09:20:42 PM) themayor: but how about this, i will ask paul when he
gets back online from utah and send something to f-a-l
(09:21:00 PM) lcafiero: But I would hope that Fedora ambassadors who
are putting in the effort could do the same
(09:21:12 PM) lcafiero: +1 to themayor
(09:21:14 PM) ***quaid caught up on the last 20 minutes
(09:21:20 PM) inode0: sure, these details can be sorted out in time
(09:21:27 PM) ke4qqq: yeah doesn't make sense that I can speak to a
crowd of 500 but can't send out a press release to a local paper
(09:21:56 PM) quaid: hmm
(09:22:06 PM) quaid: why not let's set up a policy?
(09:22:12 PM) lcafiero: And I hope themayor contributes to the wiki
drawing from his experience.
(09:22:16 PM) quaid: put together some ideas and float it to f-advisory-board?
(09:22:20 PM) inode0: do we want a policy first? :)
(09:22:27 PM) ke4qqq: works for me
(09:22:31 PM) themayor: for sure
(09:22:31 PM) lcafiero: +1
(09:22:35 PM) themayor: hey guys i need to run
(09:22:41 PM) ke4qqq: thanks for coming Jack
(09:22:42 PM) themayor: thanks for everything
(09:22:43 PM) lcafiero: I can continue with the draft wiki
(09:22:46 PM) lcafiero: thanks themayor
(09:22:54 PM) ke4qqq: yes - don't stop the work on the draft
(09:22:55 PM) quaid: to be clear, @redhat.com folks are sometimes
restricted because of the crossover to material matters (things that
talk about RHT products that might affect stock price, etc.)
(09:23:08 PM) quaid: so we are extra careful when doing the press
thing, and have a process for approving people to talk to the press.
(09:23:09 PM) lcafiero: Understood
(09:23:11 PM) ke4qqq: understandable
(09:23:16 PM) quaid: obviously @fedoraproject.org is different
(09:23:25 PM) quaid: also, traditional press folks sometimes get bent
out of shape
(09:23:27 PM) lcafiero: Again, this is just geared toward local events
by ambassadors
(09:23:39 PM) inode0: I just don't want to inject unnecessary policies
- if there is a real need fine
(09:23:41 PM) lcafiero: and I'd like to have some guidelines up before F10
(09:23:41 PM) quaid: when we release a community press release and
they haven't heard about it from Red Hat
(09:23:50 PM) quaid: so on big things we like to coordinate, and the fact
(09:23:56 PM) quaid: that we do it all openly on lists and the wiki
(09:24:03 PM) ke4qqq: "big things" will need to be defined.
(09:24:12 PM) quaid: misses the traditional press, who are 'surprised'
with the press release.
(09:24:17 PM) ke4qqq: I'll start the discussion on the F-a-l and f-m-l
(09:24:21 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: hence, the policy :)
(09:24:22 PM) inode0: let's just ask for guidance
(09:24:35 PM) lcafiero: agreed
(09:24:39 PM) ***DemonJester agrees
(09:24:42 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: would prefer we dictate what policy we
want pushed upon us
(09:24:49 PM) ke4qqq: :)
(09:24:56 PM) inode0: so would I *if* we need a policy
(09:24:59 PM) lcafiero: We should certainly suggest what we think
policy should be
(09:25:03 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: +1 on we define the policy :)
(09:25:24 PM) inode0: my earlier impression was we drive the train
(09:25:25 PM) quaid: inode0: here's the thing ...
(09:25:35 PM) quaid: inode0: if someone is speaking as an individual,
one is under no policy
(09:25:38 PM) ke4qqq: so you say we drive the care with no traffic
laws til someone complains?
(09:25:49 PM) ***ke4qqq is afriad it would be draconian
(09:25:54 PM) ke4qqq: when the boom is lowered
(09:25:58 PM) quaid: inode0: but if one is speaking as
@fedoraproject.org, don't you think we want them to have some idea of
what they want to say and how to say it?
(09:25:59 PM) ke4qqq: at least if a policy "exists"
(09:26:12 PM) ke4qqq: they can't complain
(09:26:33 PM) inode0: if I can personally represent Fedora in
activities with say a local charity (which I was clearly told I could)
I can't imagine any reason I can't publicize that too without signoff
(09:26:55 PM) quaid: inode0: that doesn't preclude a policy
(09:27:13 PM) inode0: maybe that *is* the policy
(09:27:19 PM) ke4qqq: maybe
(09:27:21 PM) quaid: the policy says, perhaps, "You do the right thing
and publicize you see fit; represent the project well; on Big Things ,
coordinate with Marketing."
(09:27:42 PM) ***ke4qqq plans on plagiarizing quaid
(09:28:06 PM) ***quaid notes his IRC chat in this meeting is a Fedora
contribution and already under the CLA
(09:28:47 PM) lcafiero: Not to add fuel to this fire, but it works two
ways -- Ambassadors could publicize "big things" handed down from
Fedora to their local press, providing they point the press to the
higher-ups.
(09:28:50 PM) ke4qqq: doesn't mean I can claim it
(09:28:53 PM) ke4qqq: as my own
(09:28:54 PM) ke4qqq: lol
(09:28:58 PM) lcafiero: Heh
(09:29:23 PM) lcafiero: quaid: better put a creative commons license on that
(09:30:04 PM) quaid: it's all under the OPL
(09:30:10 PM) quaid: or at least will be when the IRC log is posted on the wiki.
(09:30:21 PM) quaid: "A life unlogged is not a life worth living."
(09:30:38 PM) DemonJester: lol
(09:30:40 PM) ke4qqq: lol
(09:30:41 PM) lcafiero: LOL. I will continue with wiki and we'll set a policy
(09:30:50 PM) ke4qqq: anything else from media at this meeting?
(09:30:59 PM) lcafiero: Not from me. Thanks, all
(09:31:21 PM) ke4qqq: anyone have anything else?
(09:31:38 PM) quaid: not I
(09:31:41 PM) ***inode0 has a slightly unsatisfied feeling
(09:31:53 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: speak your mine
(09:31:54 PM) ke4qqq: mind
(09:32:10 PM) lcafiero: Oh, wait: I'll be agendizing a project I'm
involved in with the California universities, forming a coalition of
LUGs.
(09:32:16 PM) lcafiero: But that's for next week.
(09:32:31 PM) lcafiero: go ahead inode0
(09:33:03 PM) inode0: yeah, I'm sure we'll revisit this education and
perhaps should wait
(09:33:30 PM) ke4qqq: ok - besides jack has left - and he should be
present if we have something to air IMO
(09:33:47 PM) ke4qqq: alright - if no one has anything else we'll
close in 30seconds
(09:33:48 PM) inode0: yes, I suppose
(09:33:50 PM) lcafiero: How about on mailing list?
(09:34:01 PM) ***lcafiero decides to shut up now
(09:34:02 PM) ke4qqq: 20
(09:34:06 PM) inode0: there was no response to my post there
(09:34:12 PM) inode0: or was there?
(09:34:17 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't know
(09:34:19 PM) DemonJester: i didnt see one
(09:34:27 PM) crossbytes: lol
(09:34:27 PM) lcafiero:  I echoed it in my response to jack
(09:34:46 PM) inode0: ok, let's leave it
(09:34:48 PM) ke4qqq: and we're adjourned
(09:34:52 PM) lcafiero: see you all
(09:34:57 PM) ke4qqq: feel free to continue discussing
(09:35:01 PM) inode0: EOF for me please ke4qqq
(09:35:12 PM) inode0: anything after that doesn't get posted
(09:35:21 PM) ke4qqq: sounds good
(09:35:30 PM) lcafiero: (waiting)
(09:35:31 PM) ***inode0 does it
(09:35:33 PM) inode0: EOF