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[Ambassadors] FAmNA Meeting Minutes from 2008-10-15



(08:00:15 PM) inode0: opa! opa! opa!
(08:00:29 PM) pcalarco: lol
(08:00:52 PM) herlo has changed the topic to: FAmNA Meeting, starts now!
(08:01:22 PM) inode0: roll call
(08:01:26 PM) pcalarco: PascalCalarco
(08:01:33 PM) herlo: Clint Savage
(08:01:44 PM) jimi_c: James Cammarata
(08:01:46 PM) iWolf: JeffreyTadlock  (though, daughter is crying, may
just be lurking)
(08:01:50 PM) ***DemonJester BrianPowell
(08:01:50 PM) ***jds2001
(08:01:55 PM) jds2001: Jon Stanley
(08:02:04 PM) ke4qqq: david nalley
(08:02:59 PM) inode0: I'd like to start by extending out thanks to
jds2001 for agreeing to speak with us about the bug triage efforts he
is leading
(08:03:23 PM) jds2001: not a problem :)
(08:03:37 PM) inode0: jds2001: Would you give us an overview now of
how folks get started zapping bugs?
(08:04:02 PM) jds2001: sure, it's a tad unstructured
(08:04:22 PM) jds2001: what basically needs to happen is get a FAS account
(08:04:30 PM) jds2001: and apply for the 'fedorabugs' group
(08:04:56 PM) ***jds2001 is a sponsor in that group, so I get mail
every time someone does that.
(08:05:06 PM) jds2001: and I go click the button.
(08:05:20 PM) jds2001: then you can start going forth.
(08:05:28 PM) jds2001: perhaps that's a tad *too* unstructured?
(08:05:40 PM) herlo: going forth doing what?
(08:05:43 PM) inode0: so I do that? how do I go forth? :)
(08:05:51 PM) jds2001: oh, we have weekly meetings at 14:00UTC on Tuesdays
(08:06:44 PM) jds2001: well we have wiki pages on how to do that
(08:07:06 PM) jds2001: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Joining
(08:07:23 PM) inode0: one of the things we would like to learn is how
to spot good triaging prospects for you
(08:07:40 PM) jds2001: hmm, that's a tough oone
(08:07:42 PM) inode0: what sort of characteristics should we look for?
(08:07:59 PM) jds2001: folks that enjoy lots of work and getting
flamed for it? :)
(08:08:27 PM) jds2001: seriously, a good triagers would have some sort
of experience (need not be a whole lot)
(08:08:37 PM) herlo: I think maybe we should ask what triaging is and
how one might get started...
(08:08:52 PM) herlo: I don't see any references as to how to do that
on the page you gave
(08:09:08 PM) jds2001: go up one level
(08:09:51 PM) jds2001: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/GettingStarted
(08:10:07 PM) jds2001: is that more what you're looking for?
(08:10:38 PM) jds2001: we have an array of pages underneath the
BugZappers namespace
(08:10:57 PM) herlo: yeah, I see that
(08:11:26 PM) pcalarco: so a lot of it is trying to replicate bugs
across different hardware as part of the triaging?
(08:11:29 PM) herlo: I guess what I am after is a way to go from join
to bug triage in a short time
(08:13:04 PM) jds2001: pcalarco: that can be part of it.
(08:13:19 PM) ***vwbusguy- <- sorry for being late
(08:13:19 PM) herlo: jds2001: so I'd like you to take a moment and
actually walk us through what you'd do if someone signed up for
bugzappers and wanted to get started
(08:13:53 PM) herlo: but really didn't understand the wiki pages that
well, becuase currently, that's a lot to read and I'd like to just
have a quickstart guide
(08:13:57 PM) jds2001: sure, they make contact, I point them to the
guidelines  and how to find new bugs
(08:14:31 PM) jds2001: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/FindingBugs
(08:14:42 PM) herlo: k, so let me back up a little
(08:15:18 PM) herlo: last week we asked a ton of questions of mizmo
about art, and one of them was basically to get her to layout the
process step-by-step here
(08:15:30 PM) jds2001: ok
(08:15:37 PM) jds2001: 1) sign up for a bugzilla acct
(08:15:40 PM) herlo: and so I wonder if, rather than pointing us to
the wiki, if you could kinda do that
(08:15:42 PM) jds2001: 2) sign up for a FAS acct
(08:15:54 PM) jds2001: 3) apply for the 'fedorabugs' group
(08:16:08 PM) ***lcafiero sheepishly sneaks in
(08:16:16 PM) jds2001: (note that approval there is automatic provided cla_done)
(08:16:22 PM) herlo: oh, wow
(08:16:34 PM) ***vwbusguy- didn't realize it was that easy
(08:16:59 PM) jds2001: 4) wait a bit for bugzilla to sync, and you
have the necessary access
(08:17:08 PM) herlo: 1-2 hrs then?
(08:17:27 PM) jds2001: i think the bugzilla sync happens at the top of
the hour, yeaahs
(08:18:24 PM) herlo: jds2001: so what's next?
(08:18:34 PM) jds2001: then you find a bug, and start triagaing it.
(08:18:50 PM) inode0: I have done 1-4, really
(08:19:01 PM) herlo: how does one find a bug?  How do you know what
triaging is done
(08:19:03 PM) inode0: I don't know how to proceed
(08:19:04 PM) jds2001: in order to do that, you need to know that the
bug in question is well-described and is something actionable for a
developer
(08:19:38 PM) herlo: I still don't see how I get to bugzilla from here
(08:19:47 PM) jds2001: OK, you can find a bug via RSS feed, via some
preformatted queries we have, etc
(08:19:47 PM) ***herlo is playing devils advocate
(08:20:09 PM) jds2001: yeah, come to think of it the process is
probably a little busted
(08:20:23 PM) jds2001: maybe it'a bit *too* easy and unstructured.
(08:20:34 PM) herlo: which is our goal, to help you get more people we
need to understand the *small* details
(08:20:38 PM) jds2001: but we didn't want to put tons of beuaarucatatic stuff
(08:20:52 PM) ***inode0 notes that it is a bad idea to try to paste
preformatted query example in here
(08:20:55 PM) herlo: no argument there
(08:21:06 PM) DemonJester: I wouldnt say busted there is just a lot of
assumptions after the sign up which can intimidate folks I think.
(08:21:13 PM) herlo: inode0: a screenshot?
(08:21:15 PM) jds2001: http://feeds.feedburner.com/rawhide-new-7days
(08:21:38 PM) inode0:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/FindingBugs <- links here
(08:22:41 PM) inode0: 2798 bugs found.
(08:22:43 PM) ***herlo goes back to asking the questions here and
expecting simple answers here
(08:22:53 PM) herlo: maybe I shouldn't though
(08:23:04 PM) jds2001: no, it's a valid point.
(08:23:18 PM) herlo: I don't understand the FindingBugs page
(08:23:26 PM) jds2001: how does one *find* that wiki page assuming
they haven't seen our wiki?
(08:23:43 PM) inode0: on what possible basis do I choose one? don't I
need to know something about other bugs before processing one?
(08:23:45 PM) herlo: google search :)
(08:24:08 PM) herlo: inode0: is that statement directed at me?
(08:24:21 PM) jds2001: you can conceivaably pick any of those 2798 bugs
(08:24:22 PM) inode0: jds2001 but if you can answer it I'm ok with that :)
(08:24:39 PM) herlo: k, just checking
(08:25:14 PM) jds2001: so what these queries look for is bugs in a state of NEW
(08:25:35 PM) jds2001: which supposedly (but not in practice) means
that no one has looked at them
(08:26:10 PM) ***DemonJester found that out the hard way.
(08:26:17 PM) jds2001: if there's  a bug that you click on that has
the assignee looking at it, just move it to ASSIGNED and move on.
(08:26:58 PM) jds2001: and you gain the access to do that by
completing the signup steps.
(08:27:07 PM) inode0: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=463410
(08:27:09 PM) buggbot: Bug 463410: medium, medium, ---,
axel thimm atrpms net, NEW, AVC Denial fail2ban
(08:27:14 PM) ke4qqq: except for package review stuff
(08:27:18 PM) inode0: so that would be a candidate for this?
(08:27:34 PM) jds2001: lemme look, bugzilla is slow
(08:27:47 PM) jds2001: but looking at buggbot's summary, yes
(08:28:02 PM) jds2001: it's in NEW, etc
(08:28:07 PM) ***inode0 might process his first bug tonight
(08:28:22 PM) jds2001: now this one may need to be moved to
selinux-policy-targeted if it's not already there
(08:28:44 PM) ***jds2001 still waiting for it to load
(08:29:00 PM) ***inode0 waiting to login
(08:29:03 PM) jds2001: so AVC denials go against the policy
(08:29:19 PM) jds2001: that way dwalsh can see it and do his magic :)
(08:30:08 PM) herlo: what do you mean 'against the poicy'?
(08:30:42 PM) inode0: the selinux policy
(08:30:45 PM) inode0: component
(08:31:03 PM) herlo: so you triage it to the right person or what?
(08:31:23 PM) jds2001: yep
(08:31:36 PM) jds2001: looks as though dwalsh had already looked at
this one, though
(08:31:49 PM) herlo: how do yo uknow the right person?
(08:31:57 PM) ***herlo is still waiting for bugzilla to load
(08:32:09 PM) ke4qqq: herlo you don't assign a person you assign a component
(08:32:20 PM) ke4qqq: bz automagically knows the person based on the component
(08:32:24 PM) jds2001: right
(08:32:38 PM) inode0: ok, this looks like fail2ban badness, not
selinux policy badness
(08:32:48 PM) inode0: so I think it stays here, but moves to assigned?
(08:33:29 PM) jds2001: right
(08:33:43 PM) herlo: so how do you do that, click edit or something?
(08:33:56 PM) ***herlo still ahs to login it seems
(08:33:58 PM) inode0: shall I fire?
(08:34:32 PM) ke4qqq: yes!
(08:34:33 PM) inode0: anything beyond moving to assigned to do at this point?
(08:35:10 PM) jds2001: nope
(08:35:40 PM) jds2001: soryy stepped away for a few seconds to grab a coke :)
(08:35:45 PM) inode0: should I have looked through other fail2ban and
targeted policy bugs for dup?
(08:35:58 PM) jds2001: yes.
(08:36:03 PM) ***jds2001 forgot about that
(08:36:08 PM) jds2001: there are some tools for thagt
(08:36:26 PM) jds2001: bugz.fp.o/<component> is what i use for small components
(08:36:27 PM) inode0: it is assigned anyway - missile launched
(08:36:33 PM) jds2001: in terms of number of bugs
(08:36:38 PM) jds2001: this is another thing about triage
(08:36:51 PM) jds2001: if you make a mistake, it's really not the end
of the world :)
(08:37:04 PM) jds2001: you can go undo it.
(08:37:15 PM) ke4qqq: so kinda like the wiki - triage boldly?
(08:37:41 PM) ***inode0 does happy dance and shouts opa! opa! opa!
while joining the triage team
(08:38:00 PM) jds2001: ke4qqq: exactly
(08:38:34 PM) jds2001: you can always see the history, and you can't
really do an action that can't be undone :)
(08:38:37 PM) inode0: is there any sort of review process, to help me,
uh, a new triager, gain confidence in what they are doing?
(08:38:54 PM) jds2001: sure, stop by #fedora-qa
(08:39:11 PM) jds2001: if you have questions, send them to f-t-l
(08:39:14 PM) ke4qqq: so let me ask something jds2001 - so if we want
to assign homework of triaging 10 bugs per ambassador by next
week.....can we come to you and polecat and ask questions and get that
'review'
(08:39:16 PM) inode0: and say what, will someone look at this and see
if I did it ok?
(08:40:41 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: exactly - provide a link to the bug and
what you are thinking of doing
(08:41:02 PM) ke4qqq: and people there are pretty helpful
(08:41:29 PM) jds2001: take this for example:
(08:41:33 PM) jds2001:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-September/msg00493.html
(08:42:54 PM) ***inode0 steps away for a minute
(08:43:00 PM) ***vwbusguy- has no idea how to be a triager.
(08:43:20 PM) jds2001: vwbusguy-: how so?
(08:43:26 PM) ke4qqq: so what of this doesn't make sense
(08:43:33 PM) ke4qqq: that's what we need to capture
(08:43:49 PM) vwbusguy-: maybe I'm just not familiar with the word 'triage'
(08:44:03 PM) jds2001: ok, that's easy
(08:44:05 PM) vwbusguy-: is that like deciding where bugs go, how
they're assigned?
(08:44:10 PM) jds2001: yes
(08:44:12 PM) vwbusguy-: ok
(08:44:16 PM) jds2001: sort, categorize, etc
(08:44:22 PM) vwbusguy-: just a difference in terminology then
(08:44:27 PM) vwbusguy-: I'm used to in house terms for it
(08:44:34 PM) jds2001: what did you think it  required?
(08:44:36 PM) vwbusguy-: (Criterion Controls Board)
(08:44:41 PM) herlo: 1) The principle or practice of prioritizing
patients in an emergency situation in which there are a great number
of injured or ill
(08:44:47 PM) herlo: that's the most common definition
(08:44:55 PM) vwbusguy-: haha
(08:45:22 PM) vwbusguy-: triage sounded like a French-based word
pertaining with something to do with three
(08:45:34 PM) jds2001: lol
(08:46:01 PM) jds2001: instead of priortizing patients, we're
prioritizing bugs. And there are a great number :)
(08:46:07 PM) herlo: vwbusguy-: menage a trois
(08:46:12 PM) herlo: that's what you are thinking of
(08:46:43 PM) jds2001: if you want to be more advanced, you can even
align bugs to blockers, etc if they'er that important
(08:48:05 PM) inode0: you sometimes have mentoring irc sessions?
(08:48:20 PM) ***vwbusguy- is getting way sleepy.
(08:48:20 PM) jds2001: occasionally during the weekly meetings.
(08:48:39 PM) jds2001: we're thinking about doing focused bug days, too.
(08:48:48 PM) inode0: how many active triagers do you have now if you know?
(08:49:12 PM) jds2001: no idea
(08:49:55 PM) inode0: ok, what percentage of bugs are generally
outstanding? how large the problem is sort of what I'm looking for?
(08:50:01 PM) jds2001: 14 according to our page
(08:50:26 PM) inode0: 14 seems way too small a group
(08:50:38 PM) jds2001: mcepl gave us bad news today though :(
(08:51:13 PM) vwbusguy-: ok, I gotta go to bed
(08:51:14 PM) jds2001: 22:26 < mcepl> poelcat: I am not sure in which
all places I have reported my situation ...
(08:51:17 PM) jds2001: 22:27 < mcepl> my wife broke her foot, so I got
daddy-cares-for-children medical leave to watch over kids. I will
probably be around IRC after 15:00 EST, but I cannot promise anything
regular for next couple of weeks  (three or four)
(08:52:39 PM) ke4qqq: so does everyone now feel comfortable and feel
like you can go start triaging?
(08:52:52 PM) inode0: I started tonight!
(08:53:19 PM) jds2001: more importantly, can we pick up new
contributors at events and such?
(08:53:25 PM) pcalarco: I'm willing to give it a shot; seems like it
is a good learning opportunity as well
(08:53:27 PM) inode0: I don't feel entirely comfortable but will try
to continue and ask question in fedora-qa this week
(08:53:28 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: I don't intend to do much of it, but I
understand it better
(08:53:47 PM) ***jds2001 will have my GXP-2000 sometime soon, so call
me if you have issues!
(08:53:50 PM) herlo: I like that I can help others do this if they
don't know what else they can do since its pretty simple...
(08:54:11 PM) ke4qqq: so can we take the action item to do 10 by next
week so we can talk intelligently about bug triaging?
(08:54:38 PM) ke4qqq: anyone find that offensive??
(08:54:41 PM) inode0: Maybe those of us who are interested should
attend the meeting of triagers next week
(08:54:48 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh +1
(08:54:58 PM) ***ke4qqq claims inode0 as a recruit :)
(08:55:04 PM) ke4qqq: lol
(08:55:10 PM) inode0: we can give some feedback about our experience
(08:55:20 PM) jds2001: we would love that!
(08:55:29 PM) ***inode0 was already in the group but as a jds2001 guinnea pig
(08:55:37 PM) jds2001: 14:00UTC Tuesday right here!
(08:55:47 PM) jds2001: pcalarco: you learn a lot
(08:55:55 PM) herlo: jds2001: what time is that EDT?
(08:56:01 PM) jds2001: herlo: 10:00
(08:56:11 PM) inode0: I think if some of get a decent feel for it we
will also be more comfortable encouraging others
(08:56:26 PM) ke4qqq: exactly inode0
(08:56:40 PM) herlo: jds2001: so I could possible make one of thos
emeetings when I'm home then
(08:57:01 PM) inode0: we are about 1 hour in, anything else for
jds2001 before we close this and move on?
(08:57:03 PM) jds2001: sure, you normally lecturing at that time or something?
(08:57:14 PM) jds2001: if you have to come and go, that's fine too :)
(08:57:56 PM) jds2001: am I getting kicked out or something? :)
(08:58:01 PM) ke4qqq: jds2001: can you or poelcat run reports for us
next tuesday so we can see how many bugs we have done
(08:58:06 PM) inode0: my impression is that beginners can work on
really low hanging fruit, more experience triagers can do more
(08:58:15 PM) jds2001: inode0: exactly
(08:58:33 PM) herlo: jds2001: no kicking you out, you rock
(08:58:46 PM) jds2001: REALLY low hanging fruit is stuff that's been
in needinfo for 30 days+
(08:59:00 PM) jds2001: trying to either nudge it along or closing it.
(08:59:05 PM) ke4qqq: yes - I had a query for that somewhere
(08:59:08 PM) inode0: not trying to rush you but we don't want a 3
hour long meeting either :)
(08:59:10 PM) jds2001: we have templates for common actions like that.
(08:59:19 PM) jds2001: aww, why not?
(08:59:25 PM) jds2001: FESCo has two hours now :)
(08:59:28 PM) VileGent: anyway we can have another meeting next tuesday
(08:59:44 PM) VileGent: evening
(08:59:56 PM) inode0: yes, we'll do some followup at the triage
meeting next week
(08:59:58 PM) jds2001: well i think stickster is joining us next evening
(09:00:02 PM) jds2001: next tuesday
(09:00:12 PM) ke4qqq: http://tinyurl.com/3sl24r    <-- needinfo
greater than 30 days query iirc.
(09:00:18 PM) VileGent: the problem is the day job
(09:00:25 PM) ke4qqq: VileGent: we have a meeting every tuesday evening
(09:00:39 PM) jds2001: VileGent: and I'm around most of the time.
(09:00:41 PM) inode0: moving on now ... I think we should hear a bit
of a report on FADNA and OLF
(09:00:49 PM) jds2001: indeed.
(09:01:15 PM) ***jds2001 hears crickets instead
(09:01:23 PM) ***lcafiero wants to hear about the melee at the bar
(09:01:24 PM) inode0: jump right in
(09:01:39 PM) DemonJester: lcafiero: I won ;-)
(09:01:40 PM) jds2001: well, I got to OLF on Friday
(09:02:01 PM) jds2001: bpepple picked me up at the airport, we then
went and picked up stickster.
(09:02:11 PM) inode0: hrm
(09:02:33 PM) inode0: maybe a little too detailed there jds2001
(09:02:33 PM) jds2001: not the report you were looking for?
(09:02:42 PM) DemonJester: lol
(09:02:55 PM) inode0: impressions of booth on Saturday? fabulous success?
(09:03:04 PM) herlo: aye aye
(09:03:12 PM) DemonJester: +1
(09:03:19 PM) ke4qqq: yes
(09:03:36 PM) ke4qqq: we are still having stuff come in
(09:03:45 PM) herlo: I think the main thing I took from OLF was that
we're going to be seing more geek families at community conferences
(09:03:56 PM) herlo: because of things like the OLPC
(09:04:01 PM) ke4qqq: OLF is strange though
(09:04:01 PM) jds2001: yeah, and that's a great thing
(09:04:05 PM) herlo: :) yep!
(09:04:08 PM) inode0: hanging around most of the day I thought that
the Fedora and Ubuntu booths seemed the busiest by quite a bit
(09:04:15 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: no, I don't think it will be
(09:04:18 PM) ke4qqq: because there is no cost to attend
(09:04:25 PM) ke4qqq: families can come with 'dad'
(09:04:28 PM) ke4qqq: or 'mom'
(09:04:35 PM) ke4qqq: otherwise they might not
(09:04:41 PM) crossbytes: families meaning spouses or kids also?
(09:04:45 PM) ***jds2001 was at the Fedora booth most of the day
(09:04:48 PM) jds2001: crossbytes: kids too
(09:04:48 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: yeah, but I went to SCaLE and it seemed
that there were younger people ther too
(09:04:54 PM) ke4qqq: really....
(09:05:07 PM) herlo: not quite as many since it cost more
(09:05:10 PM) ke4qqq: hmmm I wouldn't pay 65 for a kid to attend a
conference, but that's just me
(09:05:23 PM) herlo: and they were generally at least 12
(09:05:32 PM) VileGent: ke4qqq,  i did
(09:05:35 PM) DemonJester: ke4qqq: I wouldnt either
(09:05:38 PM) ke4qqq: OLF had lots younger than that.
(09:05:38 PM) inode0: I'd like to hear about the first experience we
had with our first event box
(09:05:39 PM) crossbytes: was there a spin for edu for the kids/families?
(09:05:55 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhhh crossbytes there is but we didn't have it
(09:06:13 PM) inode0: good thing to note for future conferences
(09:06:17 PM) VileGent: corssbytes that is a good idea
(09:06:57 PM) inode0: did the event box work well?
(09:07:06 PM) DemonJester: can we get it on a pressed cd ;-)
(09:07:06 PM) VileGent: appeared to
(09:07:15 PM) jds2001: it worked out faboulously as far as i could see.
(09:07:15 PM) herlo: DemonJester: yes
(09:07:15 PM) ke4qqq: DemonJester: unlikely
(09:07:25 PM) inode0: Is there anything new to put into the event box? :)
(09:07:28 PM) ke4qqq: it was really nice - I am envious and want to buy one now
(09:07:33 PM) herlo: DemonJester: but it would be in short runs and
quite expensive
(09:07:35 PM) ke4qqq: we put the AP in it
(09:07:53 PM) jds2001: ke4qqq: that was a joke :)
(09:07:57 PM) herlo: yep and there's tons of CDs and swag
(09:08:00 PM) VileGent: inode0,  more buttons more stickers
(09:08:01 PM) inode0: No announcements?
(09:08:16 PM) jds2001: I'll be at CPOSC this weekend.
(09:08:19 PM) inode0: Little tiny announcements?
(09:08:29 PM) DemonJester: me too.
(09:08:37 PM) inode0: From the best sponsor at OLF?
(09:08:45 PM) pcalarco: hehe
(09:09:06 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhh
(09:09:07 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh
(09:09:11 PM) ke4qqq: yeah my new favorite
(09:09:14 PM) ke4qqq: hardware vendor
(09:09:20 PM) crossbytes: so is the event box coming to Portland?
(09:09:28 PM) inode0: why is this like pulling teeth? :)
(09:09:45 PM) herlo: crossbytes: for what?
(09:09:45 PM) ke4qqq: HP has agreed to send us a mini-note for each
region - to put in our eventboxes
(09:09:54 PM) jds2001: crossbytes: what's in portland?
(09:09:57 PM) inode0: opa! opa! opa!
(09:09:58 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: I don't know :)
(09:10:08 PM) lcafiero: Lindependence Portland
(09:10:12 PM) VileGent: inode0,  dont know what you are hinting at
(09:10:12 PM) lcafiero: On Oct. 25
(09:10:20 PM) ke4qqq: wow
(09:10:24 PM) inode0: So we have both a mini-note and an XO per event box
(09:10:30 PM) herlo: yup
(09:10:30 PM) lcafiero: LinuxKnight and I are going to rep Fedora at the event.
(09:10:42 PM) ke4qqq: or we will - supposed to ship first of next week
from what I hear
(09:10:44 PM) jds2001: cool, how big?
(09:10:49 PM) herlo: lcafiero: well, its going to PA this weekend, but
it can get shipped after that
(09:10:53 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: you need to talk to DemonJester
(09:10:59 PM) ke4qqq: he will have it after the event
(09:11:03 PM) inode0: Really great news and a big thanks to both HP and OLPC
(09:11:03 PM) herlo: lcafiero: how many people are going to be there?
(09:11:06 PM) jds2001: lcafiero: do you have a budget for that?
(09:11:09 PM) herlo: not that it maters?
(09:11:27 PM) herlo: lcafiero: just reply here
(09:11:41 PM) DemonJester: FSOSS in toronto is also next week
(09:11:48 PM) herlo: oh, wow
(09:11:49 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhh - we may need
(09:11:53 PM) ke4qqq: to replicate
(09:11:57 PM) herlo: quickly
(09:11:58 PM) ke4qqq: does FSOSS have budget
(09:12:06 PM) ke4qqq: wait I still have plenty of budget
(09:12:07 PM) herlo: the box is only $180
(09:12:08 PM) lcafiero: We're in good shape for Portland. We really
only need media, stickers, etc.
(09:12:12 PM) ke4qqq: but can I get it that fast
(09:12:14 PM) DemonJester: not sure I havent talked to chris yet
(09:12:23 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: I got mine in 4 days
(09:12:24 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: have you gotten media squared away
(09:12:43 PM) inode0: we should find the $180 to get a second one asap I think
(09:12:48 PM) DemonJester: the event box only has live cds left
(09:13:05 PM) herlo: we'll need banners and to duplicate other stuff too
(09:13:06 PM) ke4qqq: yaakov has media squared away already
(09:13:09 PM) ke4qqq: yep
(09:13:10 PM) jds2001: DemonJester: we've got 75 DVD's on the way
(09:13:19 PM) ***inode0 votes to just use discretionary funds if necessary
(09:13:39 PM) jds2001: we can probably restock at CPOSC
(09:13:40 PM) herlo: iWolf still has plenty of money left over from OLF bw
(09:13:50 PM) lcafiero: If we can't get media, we'll make our own.
That's what the Cabrillo College GNU/Linux Users Group did for Fedora
9 disks for Lindependence Felton in July
(09:13:56 PM) ***inode0 is going to ding that
(09:14:22 PM) herlo: lcafiero: how many ppl show up
(09:14:27 PM) ke4qqq: where do we get banners and stuff?
(09:14:35 PM) DemonJester: lcafiero: contact alex for the media,
stickers and shirts I am not sure about though
(09:14:44 PM) inode0: I would like to defer further discussion of this
so we can summarize the FADNA event quickly on the record
(09:14:51 PM) ke4qqq: no stickers or shirts left
(09:14:54 PM) herlo: well, I think banners and stickers and things
need to get done locally
(09:14:58 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: good point
(09:15:22 PM) ke4qqq: so we have had a request to show up at two
conferences from OLF
(09:15:36 PM) ke4qqq: stickster: was interviewed on one podcast
(09:15:43 PM) ke4qqq: and is scheduled on another (TLLTS)
(09:15:58 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: which conferences?
(09:16:02 PM) ke4qqq: and we had some impromptu nerdcore
(09:16:11 PM) ke4qqq: pycon (they want us to send two speakers)
(09:16:15 PM) ke4qqq: and pyohio
(09:16:32 PM) herlo: lol, the nerdcore rap ruled!
(09:16:41 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: I would love to go to pycon
(09:16:41 PM) jds2001: we have developers that go to pycon anyways
(09:16:44 PM) inode0: Did anyone go to FADNA?
(09:16:51 PM) jds2001: but I can go to pycon too.
(09:16:54 PM) herlo: inode0: what's FANDA?
(09:17:02 PM) herlo: er FADNA?
(09:17:11 PM) herlo: didn't we just have that?
(09:17:14 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhh sorry thought we were talking about OLF
(09:17:17 PM) jds2001: i think so.
(09:17:33 PM) ***jds2001 all confuzzled now
(09:17:38 PM) herlo: yup
(09:17:43 PM) inode0: We were talking about OLF, wanted to get a
summary of FADNA as well
(09:18:01 PM) herlo: inode0: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADNA2008
(09:18:03 PM) herlo: its on that page
(09:18:16 PM) herlo: specifically:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADNA2008#Meeting_Notes
(09:18:22 PM) herlo: thank pcalarco for that
(09:18:24 PM) inode0: Great, thanks pcalarco and whoever else
contributed to recording it
(09:18:36 PM) pcalarco: np
(09:18:45 PM) jds2001: and i somehow abscounded with a FADNA t-shirt, sorry :(
(09:19:03 PM) ke4qqq: WOW, pcalarco did great notes!
(09:19:13 PM) inode0: ok, oops
(09:19:16 PM) herlo: inode0: I have the recording but haven't posted it yet
(09:19:30 PM) pcalarco: librarians tend to be compulsive like that lol
(09:19:57 PM) inode0: was about to open the floor and redirect
discussion to portland
(09:19:59 PM) herlo: jds2001: it's okay, I ended up with an extra
medium if anyone wants a shirt
(09:20:09 PM) herlo: inode0: sounds good
(09:20:27 PM) inode0: I'll open the floor to any other discussion now
(09:20:49 PM) pcalarco: !
(09:20:54 PM) ***herlo is listening to nerdcore rapper DualCore!
(09:20:55 PM) inode0: go ahead pcalarco
(09:21:25 PM) pcalarco: i was thinking we could start working with our
regionals to organize ourselves at the state level more
(09:21:52 PM) pcalarco: I started looking at the Ubuntu groups LoCo
and think we should follow a similar model
(09:21:58 PM) inode0: I think that makes a lot of sense especially for Indiana
(09:22:12 PM) herlo: pcalarco: that was my original idea of the FAmNA structure
(09:22:15 PM) pcalarco: we have six ambassadors here
(09:22:18 PM) inode0: once there are several ambassadors in a state
(09:22:45 PM) crossbytes: I have been trying to find others in Washington . .
(09:22:48 PM) herlo: they can run themselves
(09:23:03 PM) pcalarco: great, vmbusguys and I will follow up with
iwolf and get the others active too
(09:23:17 PM) inode0: keep us posted
(09:23:25 PM) pcalarco: will do
(09:23:31 PM) herlo: crossbytes: cool
(09:23:45 PM) herlo: it seems I've lost LinuxKnight a little
(09:24:10 PM) VileGent: i have sent emails to the linux groups on the
west side of Virginia
(09:24:32 PM) inode0: which reminds me
(09:24:42 PM) VileGent: offering my help and support
(09:25:01 PM) ke4qqq: outstanding VileGent!
(09:25:03 PM) inode0: I couldn't help but notice that the respins flew
out the door at OLF as fast as they could be produced
(09:25:17 PM) VileGent: re-spins
(09:25:25 PM) crossbytes: Which respins?
(09:25:26 PM) inode0: sorry
(09:25:38 PM) pcalarco: Fedora Unity respins
(09:25:49 PM) ***VileGent directs crossbytes to
http://fedoraunity.org/news-archives/fedora-9-re-spin-released
(09:25:52 PM) inode0: I think perhaps we should plan if possible to
get those to as many events as possible when timely
(09:25:58 PM) crossbytes: KDE /XFCE ??
(09:26:05 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: the problem is really cost.....
(09:26:08 PM) herlo: VileGent: get used to people not spelling that right :)
(09:26:14 PM) VileGent: i am
(09:26:18 PM) crossbytes: sorry..
(09:26:18 PM) VileGent: and have been
(09:26:20 PM) inode0: even if we use volunteer burners
(09:26:21 PM) ***herlo likes respins better than re-spins :)
(09:26:30 PM) VileGent: herlo tough
(09:26:45 PM) herlo: VileGent: not really, I can use whatever I like :)
(09:26:48 PM) VileGent: respins are livemedia re-spins are repackaging
(09:27:03 PM) herlo: ugh, that's not really a differentiation
(09:27:20 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh is that what you are talking about all day?
(09:27:28 PM) herlo: no wonder people have a hard time understanding it
(09:27:29 PM) VileGent: respins are livemedia re-spins are repackaging
of the distro released isos with updates
(09:27:40 PM) inode0: directs squabbling ambassadors to
#fedora-ambassadors to discuss the semantic of re-spins vs. respins
(09:27:46 PM) herlo: that has *got* to change
(09:28:04 PM) DemonJester: so where is the event box going after PA?
(09:28:04 PM) inode0: anything else before we close in 3 minutes?
(09:28:15 PM) inode0: 2 minutes?
(09:28:16 PM) DemonJester: portland or toronto
(09:28:19 PM) ke4qqq: yes we need to get that squared away
(09:28:36 PM) herlo: Portland
(09:28:42 PM) lcafiero: We can yield to toronto -- I'll have a Intel
and PPC laptops running f9
(09:28:45 PM) herlo: it belongs in the west
(09:28:54 PM) ke4qqq: true
(09:28:55 PM) herlo: that's my only argument
(09:28:58 PM) ke4qqq: it's wests
(09:29:03 PM) ke4qqq: so herlo tell us where you want it
(09:29:08 PM) lcafiero: But I do need media and swag.
(09:29:10 PM) DemonJester: I send it where you tell me too.
(09:29:19 PM) lcafiero: +1 to west, if we can get it :-)
(09:29:25 PM) herlo: hang on
(09:29:31 PM) herlo: I asked this question already
(09:29:37 PM) herlo: but haven't had an answer
(09:29:40 PM) jds2001: ke4qqq: i can work on building one  for the
east if you'd like.'
(09:29:43 PM) herlo: how many people will be at each event?
(09:29:47 PM) VileGent: so event box cost 180?
(09:29:51 PM) herlo: yup
(09:29:54 PM) lcafiero: I don't know about Portland -- 100+
(09:29:55 PM) ***inode0 thinks while we have only one it makes sense
to ship it to the largest event but will defer to others
(09:29:56 PM) ke4qqq: no far more
(09:29:56 PM) jds2001: just the box
(09:29:57 PM) DemonJester: FSOSS about 300
(09:30:10 PM) herlo: jds2001: $180 yes
(09:30:14 PM) herlo: for just the box
(09:30:17 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: what's ur budget
(09:30:55 PM) inode0: meeting enters extra minutes or whatever those
football people call it
(09:30:59 PM) crossbytes: Portland is going to be F9 and F10beta? or just F9?
(09:31:01 PM) ke4qqq: yeah banners will cost more than that.
(09:31:07 PM) lcafiero: Overtime, or sudden death.
(09:31:07 PM) herlo: inode0: overtime
(09:31:23 PM) inode0: no, they don't call it either of those
(09:31:27 PM) DemonJester: shoot-out :-)
(09:31:32 PM) herlo: sudden death only happens in playoffs and hockey
(09:31:34 PM) lcafiero: I would like to have F9 for Portland
(09:31:44 PM) lcafiero: I do have F10 beta on one of the laptops, the intel one.
(09:31:48 PM) herlo: lcafiero: how many people
(09:31:59 PM) crossbytes: I have F10 on our ASUS EEE
(09:32:00 PM) herlo: oh, now I see it
(09:32:05 PM) jds2001: I'll bring my rawhide lappy to PA, as well.
(09:32:22 PM) jds2001: one thing that we missed at OLF
(09:32:23 PM) lcafiero: I think Portland will draw at least 100, probably more.
(09:32:37 PM) VileGent: toronto how many attendees
(09:32:40 PM) DemonJester: chris (FSOSS) has not asked for the event
box if that means anything
(09:32:56 PM) DemonJester: according to the event page 300
(09:33:01 PM) inode0: doesn't mean anything to me, does he know it is
available to him?
(09:33:09 PM) pcalarco: I think the Toronto show is quite small at this point?
(09:33:19 PM) herlo: send it to Portland, but
(09:33:23 PM) DemonJester: ask paul he is going to it
(09:33:46 PM) herlo: send some of the media off to toronto
(09:33:51 PM) herlo: what do you think of that?
(09:33:55 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: why?
(09:34:00 PM) ke4qqq: alex can send media to toronto
(09:34:02 PM) ke4qqq: or with paul
(09:34:04 PM) herlo: oh
(09:34:06 PM) herlo: okay
(09:34:11 PM) ke4qqq: we're okay with media
(09:34:14 PM) ke4qqq: I think
(09:34:17 PM) VileGent: at this point toronto 300 vs portland 100
(09:34:28 PM) lcafiero: Looks like toronto wins.
(09:34:31 PM) ***inode0 thinks toronto
(09:34:34 PM) DemonJester: I am pinging stickster now to ask about the
FSOSS numbers
(09:34:37 PM) ke4qqq: but toronto will have more people
(09:34:39 PM) lcafiero: Give us media and stuff and we'll be fine
(09:34:40 PM) ***jds2001 votes Toronto
(09:34:45 PM) herlo: right, its not enough to make that big of a difference
(09:34:55 PM) ke4qqq: from fedora
(09:35:05 PM) herlo: the eventbox could go either way
(09:35:07 PM) ke4qqq: my concern is shipping
(09:35:11 PM) herlo: right
(09:35:19 PM) ke4qqq: chris doesn't know to budget for it
(09:35:20 PM) herlo: it only cost $37 to ship it to OLF
(09:35:23 PM) DemonJester: 4 days to go cross country
(09:35:23 PM) crossbytes: There is no LUG in Vancouver to help out I
do not know about Portland LUG
(09:35:25 PM) ke4qqq: and lcafiero has no budget for it
(09:35:26 PM) inode0: isn't it possible for us to order another and
begin provisioning it in portland?
(09:35:29 PM) lcafiero: We don't really need the box in Portland, again.
(09:35:32 PM) herlo: DemonJester: right
(09:35:46 PM) inode0: you can use my share of discretionary funds to
pay for most of it
(09:36:19 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: the box yes, posters and banners probably not
(09:36:30 PM) inode0: start provisioning it ...
(09:36:32 PM) lcafiero: In Portland, LinuxKnight and I are going to
staff the table.
(09:36:35 PM) ke4qqq: we'd need to get them designed (or the old files
pulled up)
(09:36:40 PM) lcafiero: Others in the area are welcome.
(09:36:54 PM) lcafiero: I am going to be up there speaking at OSU on
the thursday prior to the event.
(09:37:04 PM) lcafiero: In corvallis, then up to portland.
(09:37:19 PM) jds2001: lcafiero: have you talked to poelcat?
(09:37:25 PM) herlo: lcafiero: I can help you get other stuff.  What
do you need?
(09:37:53 PM) ke4qqq: but you are right we need to start provisioning it
(09:37:54 PM) crossbytes: could u send mor info on your talk would
like to attend..
(09:38:05 PM) lcafiero: Are you in corvallis crossbytes
(09:38:06 PM) lcafiero: ?
(09:38:16 PM) crossbytes: No in Vancouver WA
(09:38:40 PM) ***stickster puts head up
(09:38:43 PM) stickster: DemonJester: wha?
(09:38:58 PM) DemonJester: stickster: how many are attending FSOSS event?
(09:39:18 PM) stickster: I don't know.
(09:39:19 PM) inode0: aha, we enter extra minutes and our fearless
leader shows up to score the winning goal!
(09:39:24 PM) stickster: DemonJester: You'll have to ask ctyler.
(09:39:47 PM) DemonJester: stickster: ok thanks.
(09:39:55 PM) stickster: Who is DemonJester?
(09:40:11 PM) ***DemonJester Brian Powell
(09:40:18 PM) stickster: ah
(09:40:21 PM) stickster: k
(09:40:26 PM) VileGent: ok who spiked sticksters drinks this weekend
(09:41:13 PM) DemonJester: so is it going to Toronto or Portland, I
dont remember seeing a definitive answer
(09:41:19 PM) herlo: crossbytes: that's pretty close to lcafiero
(09:41:27 PM) inode0: we need to wrap this meeting up in time for it
to start again next week guys
(09:41:36 PM) crossbytes: yes just a few minutes
(09:42:17 PM) lcafiero: I yielded to toronto.
(09:42:22 PM) inode0: conversation can continue after the meeting
unless there is something you need to get into the record ...
(09:42:23 PM) lcafiero: For the record.
(09:42:40 PM) inode0: thanks lcafiero
(09:42:47 PM) lcafiero: With the proviso that I actually DO need media
for Portland
(09:42:57 PM) inode0: I still think we should try to get you a new box ....
(09:43:18 PM) lcafiero: I have a sort of box that I made up -- I guess
it's closer to an ambassador box than an event box
(09:43:22 PM) lcafiero: But it has a lot of stuff.
(09:43:35 PM) lcafiero: Lindependence Felton wiped me out of disks, though.
(09:43:51 PM) inode0: one of us will make sure you get media
(09:44:04 PM) ke4qqq: lets move this discussion back to f-a since this
is closing out
(09:44:25 PM) lcafiero: Okay. I have to go back to class, though. The
instructor thinks I'm actually doing schoolwork here.
(09:44:29 PM) inode0: 30 seconds to close ...
(09:44:35 PM) ***lcafiero busted by professor . . . .
(09:44:52 PM) pcalarco: g'nite all
(09:44:59 PM) inode0: opa! opa! opa! EOF
(09:45:07 PM) pcalarco: exit
(09:45:07 PM) inode0: thanks everyone as always
(09:45:15 PM) ke4qqq: thanks inode0
(09:45:20 PM) herlo: thre he goes
(09:45:23 PM) jds2001: thx inode0 for hosting
(09:45:27 PM) herlo: no more lcafiero
(09:45:34 PM) inode0: thanks jds2001 for bearing with us
(09:45:59 PM) jds2001: np, i just think that herlo might punch my face
in tomorrow :)
(09:46:12 PM) herlo: lol, why?
(09:46:22 PM) VileGent: jds2001,  run he wont
(09:46:24 PM) herlo: jds2001: I wouldn't do that
(09:46:37 PM) jds2001: hehe i know
(09:46:39 PM) ***herlo might tackle VileGent though :)
(09:46:51 PM) jds2001: you did a good job playing devil
(09:46:59 PM) jds2001: devil's advocate ,that is.
(09:47:02 PM) crossbytes: fyi I thought lcafiero was in Portland he is in Calif.
(09:47:04 PM) herlo: lol
(09:47:06 PM) ***jds2001 hates pressing enter too soon
(09:50:34 PM) ***inode0 observes that stickster's kick sailed high
over the crossbar
(09:51:39 PM) inode0: and one afterthough, I'd like to thank and
ambassadors who made it to OLF and participated in FADNA
(09:51:50 PM) inode0: it was a great and productive time for all
(09:52:54 PM) ke4qqq: yes it was
(09:59:00 PM) VileGent: see you there next year


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