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[Ambassadors] FAmNA Meeting Minutes from 2008-10-21



-!- herlo changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FAmNA meeting
< herlo> rollcall
 * quaid is here
< pcalarco> PascalCalarco
 * DemonJester BrianPowell
-!- herlo changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FAmNA Meeting -
Agenda located here:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-10-21
 * herlo is Clint Savage
 * jsmith is Jared Smith
< crossbytes> crossbytes is Kevin Higgins
 * inode0 is inode0
< herlo> orly?
< inode0> look me up in FAS :)
< quaid> .fas inode0
< zodbot> quaid: inode0 'John T. Rose' <rose iastate edu>
 * quaid is going to answer rollcall from now on this way:
< quaid> .fas quaid
< zodbot> quaid: quaid 'Karsten Wade' <kwade+fedora redhat com>
< herlo> good idea
 * herlo adds that to the meeting policies :)
< herlo> alright, looks like the stragglers will join us soon
< lajjr> *
< herlo> let's get started
< herlo> Per the agenda, I'll be running this meeting and our first
item of business is to do what we've done over the past couple weeks
with different groups.
< herlo> we need to understand better the Join process from docs this week
< quaid> ok!
< herlo> so, how this process usually works
< quaid> jsmith was getting some food, stickster is putting people to
bed, so I'm the designated hot-seater
 * jsmith is here to silently support quaid
< herlo> is we start by having you describe the process in pretty good
detail.  Wiki links are helpful, but we'd like the full process in
front of us here
< quaid> yay1
< herlo> so quaid, if you don't mind, and thank you for being here.
< herlo> could you go through hwat it takes to become a docs project member?
< quaid> .fashowtojoindocs
 * quaid j/k
< herlo> lol
< DemonJester> lol
< herlo> +1 though
< jsmith> Good one quaid
< quaid> one day maybe
< quaid> ok, let's see ...
< quaid> first comes the burning desire, and it cannot be something gastric
< quaid> the basics are:
< quaid> Join the mailing list and send a self-introduction; this is
old practice, still worth it, and first in the process.
< quaid> s/Join/1. Join/
< quaid> 2. Register for accounts - bugzilla, FAS, wiki
< herlo> any requests on the join email? Like, should they say why
they are good at documentation or what they've accomplished?
< quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList
< quaid> yes, there is a page with details for the self-introl
< jsmith> and let me just add that it's important for existing members
to reply to that intro email and say "Welcome to the team!  How can we
help you get started?"
< quaid> exactly
< quaid> I commonly ask people if they want direction at tasks or want
to look around themselves and find something to do.
< quaid> after that initial joining, there are documents people must
read and understand
< quaid> cf. Packaging Guidelines
< quaid> so, style guide, how to write on the wiki, same for DocBook
conversion, wachlist usage, etc.
< quaid> we need to update that page
< quaid> to reflect the moving of guides from CVS to individual
fedorahosted.org projecs
< quaid> so that is something new
< quaid> we have each guide/document have a stand-alone project on
fedorahosted.org
< quaid> so a community of contributors can grow around the docs, cf.
packages and code
< herlo> so let's see if we can nail this down quickly then what is
needed to join the DocsProject
< herlo> 1. FAS Account
< quaid> in that case, it is *not* a requirement to be in Docs 'docs'
to be a part of a guide
< herlo> 2. Join Mailing list and send a self intro
< quaid> e.g. a developer could get commit access to git/package-guide
without going through the DOcs join hools
< quaid> hoops
< Dp67> I was encouraged *not* to send a self intro.. That should
should be changed so that everyone is on the same page.
< herlo> 3. Register for bugzilla, wiki, etc
< quaid> herlo: I say, swap 1. and 2.
< herlo> Dp67: depends, we're discussing docs, not ambassadors
< Dp67> OK
< herlo> Dp67: certain groups do it differently
< herlo> quaid: okay
< herlo> quaid: you can join the ml without being part of FAS?
< quaid> herlo: yes, it's hosted on redhat.com
< jsmith> herlo: Absolutely!
< quaid> herlo: but that's a good point ...
< herlo> so is it read only? or just anyone can post?
< herlo> not that I worry, just wondering
< quaid> you have to be a subscriber to post
< quaid> but we review the moderation queue semi-regularly
< herlo> well, yeah
< quaid> oh
< quaid> we do not require membership or self-intro to post
< quaid> just to be "part of Docs"
< quaid> which really means 'docs' group in FAS
< herlo> okay, so that's good to know
< herlo> so 1 and 2 are swapped.
< quaid> in the older days, that was a big deal -- we were a group
that gave early access to CVS when it was scarce, pre-Extras days.
< quaid> what we get
< quaid> which others get too
< quaid> are people requesting 'docs' in FAS and never self-introing,
even with a prod.
< herlo> what do you mean requesting 'docs'?
< quaid> that is why I like the 'self-intro first', even though people
can do whatever order in reality.
< quaid> that's the FAS 'docs' group
< herlo> meaning they request to be a member of docs, but then never
go through the process??
< quaid> yes
< quaid> but the process is not linked from within FAS
 * herlo points out this common thread among all groups we've talked with so far
< quaid> "F
< quaid> :D
< herlo> a stopping point
< quaid> why I pointed it out
< herlo> and how do we get them past it, that's hopefully what we can chagne
< quaid> because I've heard about it, too, and I've filed UI RFEs
around it, but don't have a clear answer.
< quaid> you know
< quaid> I don't think a self-intro is a bad stopping point.
< herlo> okay, so here's where it gets fuzzy for me, once you become a
member of docs, and have clearance to work on some, where do you go?
< quaid> if people do not want to introduce themselves, say what they
want to do, etc., what do we think they are going to do?
< herlo> no argument
< quaid> ok, so ....
< herlo> it's a hard thing
< herlo> to fix
< quaid> i. wiki is open to all, but Docs are the gardeners, so we put
people to work there
< quaid> ii. each guide happens in a separate fedorahosted.org
project, so people request e.g. gitinstall-guide and start on that
< herlo> is that a FAS group now?
< quaid> iii. beat writers go to work in Docs/Beats/ (soon to be
renamed after F10 releases)
< herlo> what are beat writers exactly?
< quaid> herlo: gitinstall-guide, gitreadme, etc.
< quaid> ok, so
< quaid> the idea is bigger than release notes, but that is what it is
mainly used for.
 * herlo asks questions, expecting answers at some point, no rush
< quaid> they are like embedded writers, who work within a SIG,
sub-project, or alongside a package/technology of interest.
< quaid> "I administrate 20 Samba servers, so I go hang out on
f-devel-l and a samba list to learn the latest; read the feature
pages; and write the changes in to Docs/Beats/Samba"
< herlo> so technically, they should be writing this stuff up on a
regular basis?
< quaid> the focus is on a release, because we turn those in to the
release notes
< herlo> oh, okay
< quaid> but this does happen, in that Fedora Weekly News now has beats
< herlo> cool
< quaid> and there _could_ be a combination around that
< quaid> but that ain't there yet
< quaid> a better example, for me:
< quaid> when I was writing the Red Hat SELinux Guide, I was working
on fedora-selinux-list daily, maintained the SELinux FAQ, and wrote
the SELinux beat for the release notes
< quaid> so I turned my for-free community work in to understanding
and content to support my for-pay work @redhat.com.
< herlo> nice
< quaid> and that experience is what spawned the beats concept, back
in the FC3 days.
< herlo> how many beats are there?
< herlo> and I suppose you expect them to grow?
< quaid> looks like around 50
< herlo> okay, that's a lot
< quaid> they change per release, growing and contracting.
< quaid> and not all are written to each release, some stay empty and
are trimmed for GA.
< herlo> do we have 50 beat writers? and is that your goal?  to have
one beat writer per beat?
< herlo> or are you looking for a couple three beats per writer?
< quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats#Beat_Assignments
< quaid> "it depends"
< quaid> for a long time, mether wrote 50%+ of the content across
many, many beats
< quaid> but that is not sustainable :)
< herlo> yeah, that seems a bit much for one person to take on
< quaid> I'd say ... there might be one per beat, depending on how
people are in sub-projects
< quaid> but the key is, each SIG and sub-proj needs "Beat writer" as a role
< herlo> plus stickster probably did some too, but being the FPL can't
make time as free, my guess
< quaid> to maintain the FWN connection as well as relnotes
< herlo> does that mean each SIG should recruit them or docs should?
< quaid> each SIG should
< quaid> but Docs also does it,
< quaid> pointing people at where there are holes, and where they
might have interest.
< herlo> so do the SIGs know do to this?
< quaid> probably not
< quaid> despite publicity over the years
< herlo> okay, well we can help with that I think
< quaid> okay, be aware - I am going to swear here
 * jsmith covers herlo's ears
 * inode0 puts hands over ears
< herlo> uh oh, quaid get mad!
< quaid> it is really fucking easy to contribute to our release notes,
and contributions are pretty piss poor considering how many people
spend their days on fedora-devel-list.
< quaid> it's worse than 100:1\
< quaid> or nearly
< quaid> improvement has been linear and nearly flat over the years
< quaid> so that's a specific goal I have to make, to figure out how
to fix that :)
< herlo> so can you explain the process of how a SIG should contribute
one person?  I am guessing a lot of them think that docs is 'not their
job'
< herlo> or contribute in general
< kam> ?
< herlo> kam: go
< kam> So...
 * ke4qqq is late and apologizes
< quaid> just use the Docs/Beats/ page as a note taking space, more
relaxed than e.g. the Feature pages.
< kam> considering I have an interest in Liove
< kam> Live
< kam> I go to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Live
< kam> login with my FAS account
< kam> then edit away?
< herlo> quaid: ?
< herlo> wanna take that one?
< jsmith> kam: Exactly :-)
 * quaid back
< quaid> basically, yes
< quaid> ideally you also watch that page, so when we update your
changes, you learn or know, or can respond.
< kam> Using the beats list from this meeting, Live is "open" so if al
I have to do is edit https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Live
then I am up for it
< quaid> kam: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/HowTo
< jsmith> We have people on the docs team that will help with the
other parts (conversion to DocBook, getting it into revision control,
etc.)  Just write!
< herlo> quaid: look at that, right in our meeting :)  a new
contributor to docs...
< kam> ok, I can hadle the wiriting, thanks!
< kam> yup, sign me up for Live, I will do some edits this week
< jsmith> kam: Welcome to the team :-)
< lajjr> me too..
< quaid> kam: go ahead and add your name to Beat_Assignments in the table
< kam> Gee, thanks
< herlo> jsmith: that's a good thing to point out though.  It's not
all writing too, some people could be programmatically inclined and
could help work on docs software
< kam> Will do now. Thanks again
< gregdek>  .fas gdk
< quaid> kam: these changes are going to appear in the GA; we've
already pulled content for the Preview Release
< herlo> gregdek: welcome
< gregdek> Aw.
< gregdek> :)
< gregdek> .fas gdk
< zodbot> gregdek: gdk 'Greg DeKoenigsberg' <gdk redhat com>
< lajjr> doc software great.
< gregdek> Yeah!  :)
< quaid> herlo: in fact, we now maintian 'content' and 'admin'
distinctions in tasks, where 'admin' can be very programmtic
< herlo> okay, so back on topic a little bit here, I think we're
getting close to wrapping up
< quaid> we do need code help :)
< lajjr> love it. coding is my life and art too LOL
< kam> Ok. It is a good point though. While I can write I am not
skilled in docbook so maybe that comes later as skills develop
< quaid> kam: exactly, evolution of the individual
< herlo> so if there were three things you'd like to see come out of a
mentoring project from Ambassadors, what would those things be?
< jsmith> Yes, there's some programmatic admin work, but some of us
use that as an excuse not to write more docs ;-)
< quaid> herlo: can you be more specific?  just so jsmith is clear, too
< herlo> sure
< herlo> In general, we would like to help you get people into docs
and bring them along so that it's easier for them and for you as Docs
folks
< herlo> our goal is to be the nudge in their back, the kick in their side, etc
< herlo> what I want to know, is what areas should we be considering
pointing people
< herlo> wiki for sure, software development and beats seem
reasonable, but I'm not always contributing to docs like I probably
should
< herlo> so maybe there's a bigger need somewhere
< quaid> i. wiki is pretty important and needs tons of work; we have a
lot of help for wiki gardeners now
< quaid> -- so they need help finding that help
< quaid> -- and encouragement to be bold
< quaid> ii. technical documentation is _way_ thin, beef up there
< quaid> -- we rely upon upstream docs too much
< quaid> -- for starters, we need to get the Fedora Packaging Guide
into XML, versioned, and translated
< quaid> --- that is a big ball of wax,  btw :)
< quaid> -- we always have interest in helping end-users, so that's
why the focus for tech docs
< quaid> iii ???
 * quaid leaves that open for the moment for stickster or jsmith input
< herlo> what about admins??
< quaid> well, yes
< herlo> programmers, et al
< quaid> admins are a form of end-user and admin tasks abound
< quaid> seen this:
< quaid> http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/5.2/html/Deployment_Guide/index.html
< quaid> that beast is supposed to arrive as an upstream doc we can contribute t
< quaid> so the entirety of a useful admin doc is there, we just need
to funnel writers to it.
< herlo> okay, cool
< herlo> what I was referring to was more about maintaining the
software (aka docbook, etc)
< herlo> but that might be good too
< quaid> ah, thanks
< quaid> yeah, we do need some people who can help us care for and
grow out toolchaiin
< quaid> publican does docbook, but that is only a piece
< herlo> what's the name of the new software that is used now?
< herlo> publican, yeah that's it
< quaid> we have CMS needs, wiki customizations, etc.
< herlo> I'm guessing websites helps you some with this, but seems to
me like a bit of a crossover
< quaid> yeah, ianweller, ricky, and G are super helpful with the wiki, CMS
< herlo> cool
< quaid> but we are bleeding them from other important stuff
 * jsmith is happy to tutor people in the basics of Publican
< herlo> okay, so only one other question from me...
< quaid> so we could use ... 2+ people who work crossover with
Websites on Docs stuff
< herlo> well, I might be able to help there, we'll talk later
< herlo> anyway, one more question for you quaid, then I think we'll
wrap this up for others
< herlo> to ask
< quaid> ok
< herlo> quaid: explain wiki gardening.  I understand it, but I want
to get the concept here so we can share
< quaid> ok
< herlo> and get people interested in it
< quaid> the wiki is so big and getting bigger
< quaid> that the only way to reign over it is to imagine it like a
gigantic park
< quaid> and we are the stewards
< quaid> so wherever we go, we keep a pair pruning shears, a small
garden trowel, and are ready to:
< quaid> * prune pages
< quaid> ** converting long ones into smaller
< quaid> * organizing
< quaid> ** adding pages to Category:Foo
< quaid> * composting
< quaid> ** moving old pages to Archive:Old/Wiki/PageNameMostLikely
< quaid> ** moving meetings to Meeting:
< quaid> * watching certain pages
< quaid> ** needs love
< quaid> etc.
< quaid> we provide a general map of how things should go;
Help:Wiki_structure, Help:Editing
< herlo> okay, so that's good to know.  I for one think that Wiki
Gardening could be happening in more areas pretty easily...
< quaid> I'm working on a 'how to rename your 100 wiki pages' guide
since we need to do that for DocsProject.*
< herlo> maybe we as ambassadors can take on some of that to help ease
the burden...
< quaid> sure, it's a project-wide thing, not Docs specific
< herlo> right, my point
< quaid> we are ultimately accountable for getting it done, but that
doesn't mean we have to do all the work
< quaid> in fact, the best wiki gardeners aren't in docs
< quaid> s/the best/some of the best/
< herlo> okay, so let's open the floor for questions really quick
< quaid> go!
< ke4qqq> ?
< herlo> ke4qqq: go ahead
< ke4qqq> so if I am an aspiring docs writer....
< ke4qqq> or an ambassador trying to mentor
< ke4qqq> how do I know whats out there to work on.
< jsmith> ke4qqq: There's always http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts
< quaid> which should be
< jsmith> ke4qqq: But don't hesitate to ask on the mailing list or in
IRC, and we'll guide you along :-)
< quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation
< DemonJester> ?
< herlo> go DemonJester
< ke4qqq> hmmm I was looking for the list of tasks actually
< quaid> ke4qqq: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks
< DemonJester> any specific skillsets you look for or would like in a
potential Docs contributor?
< quaid> DemonJester: ability/willingness to learn; some staying power
and be responsible
< quaid> writing and editing are, strangely enough, not requirements
< quaid> nor is English, per se
< quaid> if a team wants to write in another language, as long as they
follow all the processes, it's good enough
< quaid> I'll read it when it gets translated to en-US :)
< herlo> neat
< DemonJester> hehe
 * herlo didn't know that
< herlo> time for one more question
< herlo> okay, that's it for me on the Docs mentoring, thanks quaid,
jsmith for your enlightenment
< quaid> word++
< DemonJester> yes thank you quaid and jsmith!
< quaid> Say hello to your mother for me
< pcalarco> very intersting, thanks!
< kam> +1
< herlo> alright, quickly, let's move through the tasks, for those of
you who haven't looked at it in a while, I have updated the list...
< herlo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Tasks
< herlo> it's quite trimmed down...
 * quaid moves to the house
< herlo> first up is the eventual addition of 3 more EventBoxen, I
just wanted to mention it was there, and would like to see these
completed by 2009 sometime.
< herlo> any thoughts, opinions on this?
< inode0> I agree, especially with contributions coming in for them it
is important we get them as soon as we can
< pcalarco> its mostly funds that are needed to complete this at this point?
< ke4qqq> sounds good - we are already hitting conflicts and thus need
at least another one
< herlo> pretty much, and a decent process for managing them
< herlo> pcalarco: ^^
 * inode0 volunteered his share of discretionary funds for that purpose ke4qqq
< herlo> I think getting a budget for them isn't hard.  We already
have $125/region extra available...
< herlo> maybe we could use that to get the boxen themselves, which is
essentially the most expensive part
< ke4qqq> _1
< pcalarco> seems very doable by 2009
< ke4qqq> +1
< herlo> agreed
< ke4qqq> I think that I'll ask max if I can use some of my unused
event funds for this.
< herlo> +1
< herlo> I'm going to move on, okay?
< ke4qqq> k
< herlo> the next item I'd like to discuss is the EventTracking status.
< herlo> it came to my attention that this is going to be very
challenging to keep track of on a separate page from the FedoraEvents
page
< herlo> so my thought was, why not add a *reports* column to the Event list
< pcalarco> +1
< herlo> and link to the event reports, and have this be part of the
process for an event owner, should be pretty easy to manage.  Plus we
can add events after the fact here too
< herlo> any other thoughts on this one?
< ke4qqq> I am worried that we are going to compress thing - and we
are forcing changes on groups other than NA
< ke4qqq> but I like the idea.
< herlo> well, the tables are separated by region, so we only have to
do it for our region
< DemonJester> ke4qqq: agreed
< ke4qqq> good point
< DemonJester> +1
< crossbytes> +1
< ke4qqq> so you are going to announce that we are making the change
and then do it?
< herlo> sweet, I'll get that in motion then.  It should be pretty easy
< herlo> ke4qqq: I could, or we could do it and then announce it
< herlo> order doesn't seem important to me personally
< ke4qqq> me either
< ke4qqq> but if we are going to do it we might as well let people know
< herlo> k, I'll get it on the wiki, and then ask you all to blog
about it again...
< ke4qqq> k
 * herlo assigns himself a modified task
< herlo> okay, there are two here we can't/won't discuss AmbKit
(coming to a FUDCon near you) and media production
< ke4qqq> ?
< herlo> but I would like to make a note that we *really* need to bug
iWolf on getting approval for our pricing
< herlo> ke4qqq: go
< ke4qqq> I was going to say something about bugging iwolf as well
< herlo> :) lol
< herlo> ke4qqq: I assign you that task and me too and inode0
< herlo> :-D
< ke4qqq> k
 * inode0 can be proficient bugging people
< herlo> we good here?
 * herlo moves forward to the last item, EventBox transfer policy
< jds2001> we should get him to setup fedora talk and take turns bugging him.
< pcalarco> quick random question
< herlo> jds2001: good idea +1
< pcalarco> for after we are done agenda
< ke4qqq> jds2001: he has a hardphone for Ftalk
< herlo> pcalarco: only one more item...
< pcalarco> yep
 * jds2001 finally off the phone with $DAYJOB :)
< ke4qqq> .ext iwolf
< zodbot> ke4qqq: Error getting info for user: "iwolf"
< jds2001> .fas tadlock
< zodbot> jds2001: jeffreyt 'Jeffrey Tadlock' <linux elfshadow net>
< herlo> we had a lively discussion this morning/afternoon about the
transfer policy.  Unfortunately  for me, I was not on my real irc
client so I'll have to go bakc and read up
< jds2001> .ext jeffreyt
< zodbot> jds2001: 5100386
< herlo> however, the eventbox policy has been started.  I heard a lot
of good ideas about the policy.
< herlo> I want to get those down on the wiki page
< herlo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Drafts/EventBoxShipping
< herlo> if any of you have time in the next week, let's get this
policy updated and in place at least enough to make it useable and
friendly
< jds2001> looks usable to me as is, what's wrong with it?
< herlo> do we want to have the discussion about the eventbox shipping
policy here now? or should we just work on it over the next couple
weeks and report back mid-november
 * jds2001 suggests removing option 2 from what to do after event.
< herlo> jds2001: I think it is, there were discussions of adding
and/or removing items
< herlo> like that
< herlo> jds2001: the reason that is there, is so we regional
ambassadors can do an accounting and/or accommodate a long layover
where event owners might not be able to handle the box for an extended
period
< herlo> for many reasons
< ke4qqq> but it's costly
< herlo> maybe
< jds2001> yes, but it's quite ineffecient
< ke4qqq> which is my objection....
< herlo> I disagree that it's unnecessarily costly
< ke4qqq> if I trust you enough to send it to you, I trust you enough
to do inventory.
< herlo> I'm guessing that it might get to us regionals anyway since
we'll be in charge of events
< herlo> besides, it isn't just about inventory
< ke4qqq> true - or at least at an event
< jds2001> we only have X dollars, we need to make it go as far as possible.
< DemonJester> as I stated earlier the issue currently is only one box
in production.
< herlo> how about if I add a qualifier to that statement
< inode0> I'd just like to see it not very precisely formulated.
< herlo> something like "This option is a last resort and must be
cleared with that regional ambassador" or some such
< inode0> 1 - send the box asap to the next event owner
< inode0> 2 - hold it if necessary for a time if possible
< inode0> 3 - any other issues contact a regional ambassador for guidance
< inode0> something like that
< herlo> okay, 1 is too vague.  The costs should be as low as possible
< jds2001> asap doesn't mean first overnight or anything :)
< herlo> I think that if we send it early we can always get a good
price on shipping
< herlo> jds2001: no, but I think it could be interpreted that way
< inode0> it can be sent asap by a slow boat
< herlo> and in some cases, we *should* do that
< herlo> overnight, that is
< herlo> but very rarely
< ke4qqq> no I disagree
< herlo> which is why I say With more than 5days
< ke4qqq> thats why we have multiple (or will)
< herlo> so what if you have an event in NYC (1000+) on saturday and
an event in Atlanta on Tuesday-Friday the next week?
< herlo> east coast both of them
< herlo> and likely
< ke4qqq> we hope that central will loan us one
< ke4qqq> and doesn't have a conflict
< herlo> maybe
< ke4qqq> but whoever the con organizers are
< herlo> depending on whether central is busy with theres
< inode0> I don't think we should have a problem letting them all
float where needed
< ke4qqq> didn't plan well
< herlo> sure, floating is good, but I see them under high demand and quickly
< herlo> especially as we advertise them
< ke4qqq> and if we get that we ask for more boxes
< herlo> all could be in heavy use all the time
< ke4qqq> we hope they are
< DemonJester> wont the request form eliminate some of that?
< herlo> request form?
< herlo> I have *no* intention of doing that
< herlo> too much beauracracy
< DemonJester> are we just sending these to anyone?
< herlo> I think an email is good enough
< inode0> which is something to base a refinement to the policy on
when the time comes, we don't need to worry about it now
< herlo> I disagree inode0
< ke4qqq> DemonJester: same policies as getting money
< ke4qqq> 6 months plus Amb membership - and owner of an event.
< herlo> ke4qqq: make a request in advance, maybe on the events page?
< DemonJester> ke4qqq: ok
< ke4qqq> maybe that's another column
< herlo> well, that will definitely simplify things...
< ke4qqq> on the events page?
< herlo> holy columns batman
< herlo> :) +1 ke4qqq
< herlo> inode0: I think the policy should be fit for the resources it
has.  Sounds like we might have a winner though...
< herlo> I like the idea of making requests for the next quarter's
events and making it part of their budget too
< ke4qqq> me too
< herlo> any other votes?
 * herlo wants to close the meeting if not...
< ke4qqq> +1
< pcalarco> i have a quick unrelated ?
< DemonJester> how is the box getting out of toronto?
< DemonJester> I only ask because shipping electronics across the
border it real touchy.
< DemonJester> s/it/is
< herlo> DemonJester: good question, I guess we'll address that this
coming week with the OntarioLF guys
< herlo> pcalarco: okay, thanks for the reminder
< pcalarco> doing travel planning already for next year and someone
mentioned that FUDCon next year would be in Chicago; is this for F11
or F12?
< herlo> pcalarco: I actually heard that it might *not* be in Chicago
< ke4qqq> pcalarco: complete speculation at this point
< pcalarco> ok
< ke4qqq> stickster would be more authoritative than us though
< herlo> I think it could be up to us, but it would be for F12
< herlo> F11 will be in Boston area
< ke4qqq> F11 is def. boston
< pcalarco> great thanks; gotta make one of these sometime :)
< herlo> pcalarco: yes, F11 Boston :)
< herlo> any other business we need to address??
< DemonJester> None here
< stickster> F11 will be Boston, F12 uncertain but probably *not* at
the Summit in Chicago.
 * herlo votes to close the meeting
< DemonJester> +1
< pcalarco> +1
< herlo> 10
< herlo> 9
< herlo> 8
< herlo> 7
< herlo> 6
< herlo> 5
< herlo> 4
< herlo> 3
< herlo> 2
< herlo> 1
< herlo> Meeting adjourned!
< herlo> Thanks gang


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