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[Ambassadors] FAMNA Meeting Minutes from 2008-10-29



(08:00:14 PM) ***inode0 looks around
(08:00:27 PM) ***ke4qqq-afk looks at inode0 looking around
(08:00:32 PM) ke4qqq-afk is now known as ke4qqq
(08:01:46 PM) inode0: is this the KDE SIG meeting?
(08:02:07 PM) ke4qqq has changed the topic to: FAMNA meeting
(08:02:58 PM) inode0: Welcome everyone, roll call please
(08:03:10 PM) ***quaid [[User:Kwade|quaid]]
(08:03:11 PM) ***ke4qqq is here
(08:03:19 PM) inode0: agenda (short this week) at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-10-29
(08:03:23 PM) ***lajjr is here
(08:03:25 PM) ***DemonJester here
(08:03:31 PM) KarlieRobinson: Karlie
(08:03:34 PM) ***VileGent [[user:jbwillia]]
(08:04:32 PM) inode0: If anyone has read Matt's email please do now
(08:04:39 PM) inode0:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2008-October/msg00181.html
(08:05:11 PM) inode0: Do we have any Canadian ambassadors present tonight?
(08:06:10 PM) ***herlo is here as Clint Savage
(08:06:26 PM) ***tardboy211 is here as Matthew Garrison
(08:06:53 PM) inode0: opportunities like the Linux Symposium don't
come along every day, what shall we do with this one?
(08:07:03 PM) herlo: inode0: when is it?
(08:07:14 PM) herlo: oh, a long time off
(08:07:14 PM) inode0: Montreal 13-17 July 2009
(08:07:26 PM) DemonJester: If noone steps up I will try to take it.
But I would rather one of the Canadian guys handle it if possible
(08:07:28 PM) ke4qqq: fudcon?
(08:07:42 PM) inode0: it isn't good timing for a FUDcon
(08:07:56 PM) ***herlo thinks FUDCon would be June ish
(08:08:29 PM) inode0: how should we determine if there is developer
and/or user interest in one a month after FUDcon?
(08:08:44 PM) VileGent: f11 fudcon is 2 months after the f10 release
(08:08:47 PM) inode0: or should we just go with it and drum up interest?
(08:08:59 PM) ke4qqq: I think it will be the latter
(08:09:10 PM) VileGent: so july would be 2 months after f11
(08:09:18 PM) herlo: VileGent: that's the general rule, but it
probably won't be that way since it's been more than that and less
than that
(08:09:26 PM) herlo: recently
(08:09:36 PM) DemonJester: rismal is in Montreal has anyone contacted
him directly about the event?
(08:09:40 PM) inode0: and this one is especially late I think
(08:09:46 PM) KarlieRobinson: who says it has to be a fudcon - can't
we do something else?
(08:09:46 PM) herlo: rismal?
(08:09:57 PM) herlo: DemonJester: rislam?
(08:09:59 PM) inode0: KarlieRobinson: I was thinking something else
(08:10:17 PM) VileGent: yeah but it will be time frame for a fudcon
(08:10:23 PM) herlo: yup
(08:10:28 PM) inode0: FUDcon is next on the agenda and we should merge
it into the discussion now
(08:10:29 PM) DemonJester: yeah thats what I meant ;-)
(08:10:50 PM) inode0: we should propose a site for the summer FUDcon
(08:11:05 PM) ke4qqq: lets get an action item for montrial first
(08:11:08 PM) ke4qqq: montreal
(08:11:19 PM) inode0: some of us are thinking outside of the east
coast is possible this year
(08:11:42 PM) inode0: ke4qqq: I just want to be sure we don't want to
have FUDcon in Montreal
(08:11:53 PM) herlo: we should email rislam and get him to round it up IMO
(08:11:57 PM) inode0: because that is possible too
(08:12:07 PM) ***herlo doesn't want a FUDCon in Montreal -1
(08:12:21 PM) ke4qqq: well Fudcon brings lots of sponsorship money
(08:12:26 PM) inode0: we have rislam and another Montreal ambassador,
I will contact both
(08:12:31 PM) ke4qqq: and DEMANDS someone on the ground
(08:12:40 PM) ke4qqq: that has the time and willingness to tackle it
(08:12:41 PM) herlo: there are three on the Regions page
(08:12:44 PM) DemonJester: If there are no takers by Dec 1 I will take
it, but it is 7 hours for me
(08:13:13 PM) inode0: there is an advantage to Montreal in that it is
providing facilities and possible transportation from Boston
(08:13:17 PM) quaid: remember that FUDCon is not a limited thing; we
*can* have extra ones in a yar
(08:13:39 PM) herlo: yeah, but RH seems to fund them and it's unlikely
we'd have more than 2 a year
(08:13:57 PM) quaid: this sounds much cheaper, though
(08:14:06 PM) herlo: in what sense?
(08:14:08 PM) quaid: I'm unclear if the LS space is free or low cost
(08:14:12 PM) quaid: to us.
(08:14:36 PM) ke4qqq: sounded like it was free to us - but regardless
- doesn't travel make up the bulk of fudcon expenses
(08:14:42 PM) ***inode0 had the impression it was free
(08:14:55 PM) herlo: flying all of the NA Fedora ppl across the border
isn't going to be cheap.  The time to get passports (because they will
be required by then) and what not is going to be painful
(08:14:56 PM) quaid: yes, it does, but how much travel does RHT
actually pay for?
(08:15:02 PM) inode0: travel is the biggest FUDcon expense I believe
(08:15:18 PM) quaid: I thought the majority of RHT budget was space
and amenities
(08:15:35 PM) ke4qqq: only because it's been coloed with the summit
(08:15:35 PM) inode0: the last FUDcon had a budget around $20k I think
(08:15:55 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: right, we rode on other people's travel budget
(08:15:57 PM) herlo: yeah, as I understood it, the last FUDCon got the
space for nothing or nearly nothing
(08:16:36 PM) inode0: I propose we briefly discuss other FUDcon
locations so we can weigh the options
(08:16:39 PM) herlo: the one at Boston University anyway.  The
Hackfest may have cost something
(08:16:59 PM) VileGent: i would rather see fudcon in columbus ohio
(08:17:15 PM) herlo: well, There's Indianapolis, Salt Lake City,
Dallas, and one other IIRC discussed previously
(08:17:19 PM) VileGent: or somewhere central zone
(08:17:37 PM) inode0: that is my list
(08:17:42 PM) inode0: and Chicago
(08:17:45 PM) herlo: ahh, yes
(08:18:29 PM) inode0: assuming we can arrange university or other
nearly free facilities for the event are there thoughts about those?
(08:18:34 PM) DemonJester: is this targeted mainly for developers or users?
(08:18:48 PM) ke4qqq: ok - so to get back to Montreal - I'll email
rislam and ask him to follow up and for now consider it a sep. item -
we may call it a fudcon but as of right now we it won't be f12 fudcon
- though that's subject to change
(08:19:00 PM) herlo: in SLC, I can arrange something at several schools
(08:19:14 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: so Clemson didn't make the cut?
(08:19:39 PM) inode0: ke4qqq: I volunteered to contact him but I did
not have the impression that we are dismissing it yet?!
(08:19:49 PM) quaid: stickster: ping
(08:19:51 PM) ***ke4qqq steps back
(08:20:00 PM) ke4qqq: ok - sorry I missed that task
(08:20:02 PM) stickster: pong
(08:20:04 PM) ke4qqq: I'll defer to you
(08:20:05 PM) ***stickster only sorta here
(08:20:09 PM) quaid: stickster: tell me about FUDCon ...
(08:20:10 PM) quaid: in this way
(08:20:14 PM) inode0: I would be pleased to consider Clemson for
FUDcon but no one brought it up before.
(08:20:27 PM) quaid: stickster: discussing the fwd from mdomsch about
colo something at LS in Montreal next July
(08:20:45 PM) quaid: is the FUDCon 'brand thing' that RHT sponsors it?
(08:20:48 PM) ke4qqq: Clemson would be about the right timeframe for
F12 Fudcon - but it's on the east coast - and very south - which makes
it very warm.
(08:21:00 PM) stickster: quaid: I think it should be that RHT pays the
bill for FUDCon
(08:21:13 PM) stickster: quaid: Where it occurs is up to the people
who pay for it
(08:21:14 PM) quaid: stickster: thus meaning if we want to do extra
stuff/locations
(08:21:16 PM) stickster: quaid: And having said that
(08:21:22 PM) quaid: stickster: it needs another name?
(08:21:47 PM) stickster: quaid: I am sure that at least community
architecture will be happy to locate FUDCon anywhere we can have an
effective conference
(08:22:12 PM) stickster: Be aware that a lot of people "want" FUDCon
in specific places
(08:22:14 PM) inode0: stickster: does that mean we should drop it or
proceed with trying to propose a site for F12?
(08:22:29 PM) stickster: inode0: I think it's a great conversation to
start having now
(08:22:44 PM) stickster: Probably on f-amb-l or f-mktg-l
(08:22:48 PM) ***herlo believes the Ambassadors is a good place to
*organize* a conversation about having FUDCon somewhere specific...
(08:23:10 PM) stickster: Toronto already threw their name in the hat as well
(08:23:16 PM) stickster: prior to mdomsch's note
(08:23:20 PM) herlo: giving people an opportunity to vote/nominate a
place from some sort of an approved list ??
(08:23:45 PM) herlo: the only question I can see is, where does the
*approved* list come from
stickster StillBob stiv2k
(08:24:02 PM) herlo: what do we think of this idea?
(08:24:07 PM) inode0: stickster: can you give us any sort of timeframe
for when RH would want to decide this for F12?
(08:24:25 PM) stickster: inode0: We'd need to have it decided by
around February 1
(08:24:45 PM) stickster: Look, here's the scoop
(08:24:55 PM) stickster: Red Hat's fiscal year runs March 1 - Feb. 28/29
(08:25:33 PM) stickster: Any money that departments want to spend have
to be in the budget requests substantially before that time.
(08:25:40 PM) stickster: Maybe as early as January
(08:26:07 PM) stickster: I wasn't @RHT in January 2008 so I can't be
sure of when that process started, but I'm certain it didn't start as
late as the middle of February.
(08:26:10 PM) stickster: Now
(08:26:22 PM) stickster: To answer the question of "Can we have FUDCon at <X>"
(08:26:42 PM) stickster: We need to know the answer to the question of
"Who needs to attend FUDCon for it to be an effective use of Red Hat
funds?"
(08:27:04 PM) stickster: If money were no object, we could fly
everyone to Hawaii and be done with it :-)
(08:27:14 PM) ***herlo is ready for that :)
(08:27:49 PM) stickster: which is why the decision of "where" needs to
be made in conjunction with "who"
(08:27:53 PM) herlo: but seriously, please define 'effective use' in
that context.
(08:28:18 PM) inode0: this always seems to come back around to
somewhere close to the east coast in my mind
(08:28:37 PM) stickster: It doesn't have to, as long as we can secure
sufficient funds ahead of time
(08:28:41 PM) VileGent: inode or central
(08:28:44 PM) inode0: because the rest of the developer community is
so scattered
(08:28:58 PM) stickster: I think what's confusing people --
(08:29:09 PM) stickster: is that this year, the even-numbered FUDCon
was held (again) in Boston
(08:29:15 PM) stickster: Because that's where the Summit happened.
(08:29:31 PM) stickster: Max's team had planned to travel with the
Summit for even-numbered FUDCons
(08:29:43 PM) stickster: and the odd-numbered FUDCon (winter) would be
held in Boston
(08:29:55 PM) VileGent: brrrrr
(08:29:58 PM) stickster: Having the Summit in Boston makes the plan
seem to have fizzled, when actually we were holding to it.
(08:30:34 PM) stickster: This coming year we are leaning *away* from
doing FUDCon at the Summit again.
(08:30:46 PM) stickster: The ROI was not phenomenal.
(08:30:56 PM) stickster: But we can hold it away from the East Coast
(08:31:07 PM) stickster: As long as we are planning in a financially
responsible way
(08:31:21 PM) herlo: stickster: ?
(08:31:23 PM) stickster: i.e. If someone suggests San Francisco, I'd
probably say that's going to be very expensive
(08:31:29 PM) inode0: ok, let's work to get a site or two in line to
propose before the end of the year as a goal
(08:31:36 PM) stickster: As opposed to, say, Columbus
(08:31:38 PM) stickster: Or SLC
(08:31:41 PM) stickster: Or Austin
(08:31:45 PM) stickster: Or... <X>
(08:31:53 PM) stickster: Does this make sense?
(08:32:03 PM) VileGent: yep
(08:32:06 PM) inode0: Indianapolis, Clemson, and Chicago are the
others mentioned at this point
(08:32:15 PM) stickster: Wherever we put FUDCon, we have to make a
substantial number of community members and RH people appear there
("as if by magic!")
(08:32:19 PM) stickster: And that costs money.
(08:32:40 PM) stickster: So to answer the question of "where" we need
to also establish "who"
(08:32:47 PM) herlo: So my question pertains to the 'effective use'
definition again, and sorry for keeping it here.  But to me, there are
two sets of people supposed to be involved in FUDCons, Users (aka
contributors of non-development functionality) and developers.
(08:32:49 PM) stickster: herlo: Does this make more sense now?
(08:33:15 PM) herlo: my question is , would Users be an effective use
of RHT's funds?
(08:33:21 PM) herlo: and if not, why not
(08:33:23 PM) ***ke4qqq has a ? after herlo is done
(08:33:45 PM) stickster: I think having FUDCon at a place where there
is a large local user base is a good thing.
(08:33:54 PM) herlo: what I'm driving at is I'd like to see one FUDCon
focus on the dev side (probably the one in Boston) and the other focus
on what the User's can provide...
(08:33:55 PM) stickster: Wait
(08:34:18 PM) stickster: herlo: sorry, I think you're confusing the
meaning of users.
(08:34:29 PM) herlo: well, I'm trying to be broad
(08:34:33 PM) stickster: herlo: It's confusing.
(08:34:40 PM) herlo: yes, it is
(08:34:52 PM) stickster: herlo: Developers, to me, includes
contributors of code and collateral.
(08:35:11 PM) stickster: We want to attract users who are local to
wherever FUDCon is being held.
(08:35:25 PM) stickster: where "users" == potential but not current
contributors.
(08:35:31 PM) herlo: okay, fair enough, and I can see the need for
actual 'Users'.  I'd like to see them grow...
stickster StillBob stiv2k
(08:35:51 PM) stickster: yes, but flying users to a conference is not,
IMHO, a very effective use of funds.
(08:35:55 PM) herlo: so a focus more toward them would be *really*
good.  Either way you slice it.
(08:35:59 PM) herlo: agreed.
(08:36:03 PM) tardboy211: stickster: for that, I think you have to
look at where most technology based business is
(08:36:04 PM) stickster: Instead, we should try and locate the
conference in a place that will attract them.
(08:36:36 PM) VileGent: any chance for having it in raliegh again?
(08:36:39 PM) inode0: tardboy211: or where they might be anyway at another event
(08:36:53 PM) stickster: I think we should start thinking of FUDCon as
being not just the two events we typically run.
(08:37:00 PM) herlo: right, that I can see.  For me, it's really about
making it more available...
(08:37:12 PM) herlo: to everyone, not just us contributors.
(08:37:15 PM) stickster: i.e. the developer-centric jumpstarts for the
next release
(08:37:19 PM) ke4qqq: so how does RH determine ROI?? Is it based on #
of devs present per dollar?  or the results of a given fudcon, or
something else entirely?
(08:37:31 PM) herlo: stickster: thank you
(08:37:34 PM) tardboy211 is now known as tardboy21
(08:37:42 PM) stickster: A FUDCon can be held anywhere there are
sufficient people to organize it
(08:37:48 PM) stickster: And the funding would depend on the kind of event
(08:38:33 PM) stickster: In other words, we can plan FUDCon like other events.
(08:38:44 PM) inode0: stickster: do you and/or RH have a preference
for a window FUDcon should ideally fall in? thinking for F12 would
July be late?
(08:39:03 PM) stickster: inode0: Maybe not, depending on how the
release schedule for F11 goes
(08:39:29 PM) stickster: There's not a "preference," just something
that makes sense given the release schedule
(08:39:51 PM) inode0: hard to time that so far in advance
(08:40:05 PM) stickster: ke4qqq: It's a fuzzy quantity, but a lot of
it has to do with the work that gets started, finished, or furthered
at FUDCon
(08:41:24 PM) quaid: which is why the ability to get active
contributors there is key.
(08:41:33 PM) inode0: stickster: are you comfortable with us forging
ahead considering places to suggest and we'll keep you informed of our
progress and get your feedback as you think we need it?
(08:41:34 PM) stickster: inode0: the schedule discussions are ongoing
but we'd expect to have it down before F10 releases
(08:41:56 PM) stickster: inode0: which means that there should still
be plenty of time to discuss locations for FUDCon F12
(08:42:09 PM) stickster: inode0: as well as ideas for furthering
FUDCon beyond "FUDCon Fn"
(08:42:33 PM) stickster: inode0: To answer your last question, yes, absolutely
(08:42:51 PM) inode0: wonderful, thanks for your time tonight - it has
been very helpful
(08:43:01 PM) stickster: inode0: Keep in mind that FUDCon F12 this
coming summer will be paid for out of Max's budget, not my dept's
(08:43:20 PM) stickster: inode0: So you'll want to keep both of us informed
(08:43:24 PM) inode0: will do
(08:44:00 PM) inode0: Shall we move on?
(08:44:05 PM) stickster: One last point
(08:44:07 PM) herlo: +1
(08:44:21 PM) quaid: thx, I should have been able to say all that, but
it is still a bit confusing to me :)
(08:44:24 PM) ***inode0 waits for last point
(08:44:32 PM) stickster: We have multiple FUDCons in Europe already,
some as mini-FUDCons colocated with some other big event
(08:45:34 PM) stickster: Doing similarly here might allow for more
exposure to users and a very cost-effective way to increase Fedora
awareness
(08:45:51 PM) inode0: and if somewhere we'd like doesn't pan out we
might try that too
(08:46:11 PM) inode0: or even if it does pan out
(08:46:15 PM) stickster: And if such an event were already being
attended by a bunch of local ambassadors, there's not a need to fly a
huge bunch of people around to have a very successful event
(08:46:50 PM) stickster: The FADNA was really like a mini-mini-FUDCon
(08:46:56 PM) stickster: except focused on one topic
(08:47:14 PM) inode0: right, and that could have been easily expanded some
(08:47:22 PM) stickster: So having regional ambassador coverage really
opens up a lot of doors
(08:47:40 PM) stickster: Strategically there's a lot of value in
making sure we have good cross-country ambassadorial coverage.
(08:48:06 PM) stickster: That way we can make mini-FUDCons happen at
extremely low, maybe zero, cost -- more often.
(08:48:19 PM) stickster: <EOF>
(08:48:37 PM) inode0: thanks a bunch for you time and insight tonight stickster
(08:48:49 PM) stickster: Thanks guys for your time
(08:48:53 PM) DemonJester: yes thank you stickster
(08:49:09 PM) inode0: next on the agenda, and related, are SELF and FADNA
(08:49:38 PM) inode0: SELF is a conference next June I'd really like
to see us help get off to a great start
(08:50:11 PM) inode0: I'm partial to the idea of having FADNA meet at
a regional conference and SELF is perfect in that regard
(08:50:19 PM) DemonJester: where is it at?
(08:50:25 PM) inode0: But SELF is also a nice candidate for FUDcon too
(08:50:33 PM) inode0: Clemson, SC
(08:50:43 PM) DemonJester: thx :)
(08:50:46 PM) inode0: mid June
(08:50:47 PM) herlo: why? seems FUDCon would be around then, I think
we should stick to spring/fall FADNAs... Just an opinion
(08:51:36 PM) inode0: well, I wasn't concerned with the timing so much
as promoting regional conferences and getting more of us to them
(08:52:07 PM) herlo: I'm not opposed to making an effort to get SELF
off the ground, just that I  think a FADNA should happen again before
then :)
(08:52:10 PM) inode0: I'm just as open to having FADNA at utosc to be
honest, and to having FUDcon in SLC
(08:52:36 PM) herlo: SLC would be great, but that's not necessary
(08:53:10 PM) inode0: I just wanted to get the discussion started and
am completely open to FADNA ideas (hadn't really heard any since OLF)
(08:53:12 PM) herlo: I fly a lot as it is, and planning one major get
together each year would probably be too much for me to be honest,
maybe once every other year or something.
(08:54:22 PM) herlo: anyone else have an opinion?
(08:54:25 PM) inode0: What do others think of Clemson/SELF as a
potential FUDcon site?
(08:54:33 PM) ke4qqq: well I like it
(08:54:36 PM) ke4qqq: but I am biased
(08:54:45 PM) ke4qqq: as a 10min drive is better than 10 hours
(08:54:53 PM) inode0: ke4qqq: and you think we could get some good
cooperation from the local organizers?
(08:55:02 PM) DemonJester: I think it would work for me
(08:55:07 PM) ke4qqq: what do you want from the organizers?
(08:55:11 PM) herlo: lol, yeah.  Clemson's on the East coast right?
Didn't we just get through saying we didn't want one on the East coast
:)
(08:55:33 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: yes yes we did
(08:55:41 PM) inode0: yes, but not quite on the coast and it is a timing thing
(08:55:54 PM) herlo: I was *mostly* kidding
(08:55:56 PM) inode0: if it is a good site it is a good site :)
(08:56:07 PM) VileGent: if we can get the infrastructure we need
(08:56:26 PM) VileGent: cheap and what is the closest major airport
(08:56:36 PM) ke4qqq: define major
(08:56:42 PM) inode0: yes, I mean can we get facilities for the
hackfest days? barcamp at Clemson itself? that sort of cooperation ...
(08:56:55 PM) ke4qqq: infrastructure is no big deal - we have access
to all the classrooms and space we want
(08:57:05 PM) inode0: for 3 days?
(08:57:23 PM) VileGent: a major hub
(08:57:25 PM) ke4qqq: sure, I think we could pull that off
(08:57:33 PM) ke4qqq: ATL and CLT are closest major hubs
(08:57:40 PM) ke4qqq: both ~2 hours away :(
(08:58:02 PM) ke4qqq: GSP is an international airport - but certainly
not a major hub
(08:58:14 PM) ke4qqq: more like Cincinnati's airport in size
(08:58:27 PM) VileGent: where is gsp
(08:58:39 PM) ke4qqq: GSP is ~30 minutes away from clemson
(08:59:14 PM) VileGent: ok does the local hotels have free or low cost
shuttles to the airport
(08:59:30 PM) VileGent: or some type of mass transit
(08:59:55 PM) KarlieRobinson: Sorry guys, but I've got to go
(08:59:59 PM) KarlieRobinson: beauty sleep and all
(09:00:01 PM) inode0: we aren't going to decide anything tonight and
we are an hour into this now
(09:00:07 PM) inode0: goodnight KarlieRobinson
(09:00:19 PM) VileGent: nite karlie good to see you again
(09:00:32 PM) KarlieRobinson: bye
(09:00:36 PM) ke4qqq: VileGent: hotels do - and Clemson is going to
operate busses for us as well
(09:00:39 PM) ke4qqq: night Karlie
(09:00:49 PM) inode0: shall I schedule this for a slot next week or
the week after where we can discuss options in more detail?
(09:01:11 PM) VileGent: ke4qqq,  i am trying to bring up issues to think about
(09:01:27 PM) inode0: get a feel for the advantages and disadvantage
of several possible locations
(09:01:53 PM) herlo: inode0: yes, I think so
(09:01:58 PM) tardboy21: is the the best medium for the discussion to
be ongoing?
(09:02:14 PM) inode0: and we can all start giving some thought to when
a good time for the next FADNA might be as well
(09:02:33 PM) herlo: yes, for sure
(09:02:58 PM) inode0: tardboy21: I expect we will discuss things
during the week in fedora-ambassadors and perhaps on f-a-l as well
(09:03:15 PM) tardboy21: ok
(09:03:18 PM) inode0: informally
(09:03:23 PM) inode0: bounce around ideas
(09:03:27 PM) inode0: pie in the sky
(09:03:44 PM) inode0: task list items
(09:04:03 PM) inode0: any Event Box news to note?
(09:04:06 PM) herlo: yes
(09:04:24 PM) herlo: made tons of changes to the coverage, planing to
blog about it this week
(09:04:36 PM) herlo: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox
(09:05:01 PM) VileGent: we need a log book put in the box
(09:05:05 PM) herlo: also have a page specifically for the regional
boxen now, only West is created, but others can follow suit.  I plan
to add pics there tonight
(09:05:17 PM) inode0: there has been some great feedback from Event
Box users so far
(09:05:20 PM) herlo: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox/NA/West
(09:05:42 PM) herlo: VileGent:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox/Details <-- that's
kind of what I thought :)
(09:06:00 PM) herlo: maybe we could put it in the box, but maybe we
could put it on line :)
(09:06:16 PM) VileGent: herlo,  one in the boxes as well
(09:06:45 PM) herlo: well, if we put it in the box, nobody will do the
one online IMO
(09:06:46 PM) herlo: so
(09:06:58 PM) DemonJester: or it will get misplaced
(09:07:07 PM) herlo: I suggest we put one in the box, with only
information on how to get to the one oneline
(09:07:10 PM) herlo: online even
(09:08:00 PM) herlo: I'm planning on writing a simple instruction
booklet that covers what's in the box and attaching it to the inner
lid when it comes back around.  Or if someone else wants to do that
(09:08:18 PM) herlo: also, for the EventBox transfer policy, I think
we've got a good structure
(09:08:23 PM) ke4qqq: where is it going next?
(09:08:33 PM) herlo:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents#North_America_Q3
(09:08:46 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: good question, nothing is scheduled until
January next year
(09:08:51 PM) herlo: nothing major anyway
(09:09:18 PM) ke4qqq: actually GDK and I may be going to Charleston's
nuke school - with 2500 people attending
(09:09:25 PM) ke4qqq: but I haven't firmed up details yet
(09:09:51 PM) herlo: however, we can determine the schedule of the
EventBoxen each quarter about the same time the Budget is done.  I
really like this process, makes it easy for the Ambassadors to
determine a schedule in advance
(09:09:54 PM) DemonJester: Do you want it shipped to you? Andrew was
asking me what he should do
(09:10:24 PM) inode0: one thing I'd like to do is touch up the
lingering task list items for update points?!
(09:10:28 PM) herlo: having the AmbassadorKits early next year, should
help ease the ad-hoc events needs for a small event
(09:10:28 PM) ke4qqq: DemonJester: not yet - let me get things firmed
up - so many schedules HAVE to agree - it may not happen til January
(09:10:54 PM) DemonJester: ok I told him to sit on it until I got back
to him. Its at the Toronto Red Hat office now
(09:11:06 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: DemonJester: it's at RH in Ontario right?
 They have no problem holding onto it there?  If not, it'd be nice to
keep it there until we know for sure
(09:11:23 PM) DemonJester: yep they are fine keeping it there for now
(09:11:33 PM) ke4qqq: +1
(09:11:47 PM) DemonJester: I will let Andrew know that.
(09:11:57 PM) herlo: inode0: so anyway, I think the EventBoxen really
need to ramp up
(09:12:00 PM) herlo: we need more
(09:12:07 PM) ***inode0 agrees
(09:12:16 PM) DemonJester: we have any funds left for q3?
(09:12:20 PM) ke4qqq: I agree - East certainly needs to come online
(09:12:23 PM) inode0: I want to figure out the budget issues for Q3
(09:12:32 PM) ke4qqq: DemonJester: yes - but how much is unknown - at
least to me
(09:12:42 PM) herlo: I am developing pages to make it easy to get it
around to other events, so that should make it cheaper as we get more
EventBoxen
(09:12:47 PM) inode0: I really don't think the region matters
(09:12:55 PM) herlo: inode0: it does
(09:12:57 PM) herlo: and here's why
(09:13:14 PM) herlo: if we only have to ship it within a few hundred
miles, it's going to be cheaper, faster and easier to manage
(09:13:29 PM) inode0: it doesn't and here is why :)
(09:13:48 PM) herlo: I can get an event box from California to Utah in
a day or two for the same price as I can ship it from SLC to Ohio in a
week
(09:13:49 PM) inode0: if central US gets the next one it will go
wherever the conference are just the same :)
(09:14:02 PM) herlo: huh?
(09:14:29 PM) inode0: I mean if I have discretionary funds I'm happy
to spend them on a box and let it travel the east coast now
(09:14:34 PM) herlo: do you mean to say that if there is one in West,
Central and East, it will go wherever?
(09:14:53 PM) herlo: well, yeah, for now.  I'm thinking a bit longer
term than that, like 6 months from now
(09:15:05 PM) inode0: the boxes will tend to be on the east and west
coasts anyway
(09:15:06 PM) herlo: in 6 months, I hope we have 3 or 4 EventBoxen
(09:15:24 PM) herlo: well, the midwest one can roam a little maybe, it
is pretty central
(09:15:46 PM) inode0: right, so let's just try to get another box
without worrying about regional issues
(09:16:01 PM) ***ajaaya wonders why not Boulder or Austin
(09:16:03 PM) inode0: and my funds are free for that purpose as far as
I'm concerned
(09:16:16 PM) herlo: I like sticksters idea of having the EventBox get
stickered wherever it goes
(09:16:24 PM) inode0: yes, that is excellent
(09:16:26 PM) ke4qqq: at least until we get 4 - I think wests has been
to 3 of the 4 different regions now
(09:16:45 PM) herlo: inode0: costs can be lowered if we have more sooner
(09:16:54 PM) ke4qqq: yeah I am firing off an email to max to find out
what's left in q3 budget
(09:17:02 PM) herlo: yes, it only hasn't been to its own region :)
(09:17:11 PM) inode0: so, would someone raise their hand to ping iWolf
and get to the bottom of the budget issues for Q3 this week?
(09:17:13 PM) herlo: and it could have easily
(09:17:24 PM) inode0: ok, max is good too
(09:17:45 PM) herlo: well, we need iWolf too
(09:17:58 PM) inode0: we need to learn about media decisions from famsco
(09:18:02 PM) herlo: specifically for the next task
(09:18:05 PM) herlo: yep
(09:18:39 PM) inode0: I'll update the media task to expect an update
next week then if no objections
(09:19:04 PM) herlo: inode0: we need a task to bug iWolf too :)
(09:19:22 PM) inode0: ok, herlo volunteered to bug iWolf
(09:19:28 PM) herlo: that's not what I said
(09:19:40 PM) inode0: that is what I said but you can overrule me
(09:19:42 PM) ***herlo won't be able to do that until next week and
that will be too late
(09:19:48 PM) herlo: sorry
(09:20:01 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: I just fired off an email about media
(09:20:03 PM) inode0: ok, someone will bug iWolf
(09:20:16 PM) ke4qqq: so I'll make sure it gets cronjobbed and
repeated til we get a response
(09:20:21 PM) herlo: lol
(09:20:41 PM) inode0: leaving tasks now unless there is more to discuss ...
(09:20:46 PM) herlo: I've got a couple other things to add for new
business when we're there
(09:20:55 PM) inode0: open floor, go
(09:21:27 PM) herlo: one is, I got this email here about where to get
swag and stuff
(09:21:42 PM) herlo:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2008-October/msg00223.html
(09:21:45 PM) ***ke4qqq just saw that
(09:21:48 PM) herlo: now, I know how to answer it
(09:21:48 PM) inode0: I read it too
(09:22:04 PM) ***DemonJester read it as well
(09:22:11 PM) ***inode0 still hasn't received anything from Alex
(09:22:16 PM) herlo: but what I'm going to say is that I'd like to
have a resource somewhere on the wiki or somehting so that people who
ask that question can be pointed somewhere
(09:22:41 PM) herlo: so we don't have to keep answering qeuestions like these
(09:22:54 PM) ke4qqq: what would you say in such a document?
(09:22:57 PM) herlo: because they will keep coming up.  and while it's
important we address them
(09:23:10 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: FAQs
(09:23:18 PM) herlo: or something similar
(09:23:30 PM) herlo: I like canned responses because I'm lazy
(09:23:34 PM) ke4qqq: me too
(09:23:38 PM) ke4qqq: on both counts
(09:23:52 PM) ke4qqq: there is already one of those up though
(09:23:58 PM) DemonJester: +1
(09:24:07 PM) herlo: It reminds me of what fedora-websites needs to do
when people email about buying domains :)
(09:24:16 PM) herlo: we have common responses to give
(09:24:18 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: where?
(09:24:27 PM) inode0: we have something of a problem when the canned
response says ask someone who doesn't have anything though
(09:24:47 PM) herlo: huh?
(09:25:05 PM) inode0: the normal answer is ask your regional ambassador
(09:25:07 PM) herlo: I'm sorry inode0 , I'm just missing your points
tonight, forgive me
(09:25:33 PM) ke4qqq: there used to be anyway
(09:25:36 PM) DemonJester: I will assist Kam with the answer and
getting shirts locally.
(09:25:36 PM) herlo: well, I'd like that to stop.  I think we're all empowered
(09:25:57 PM) DemonJester: if that is the route taken.
(09:26:01 PM) herlo: and having a simple 'heres some suggestions'
page, might be a good idea
(09:26:09 PM) herlo: DemonJester: I see nothing wrong with that
(09:26:33 PM) herlo: going to the Regional Ambassador should be a last
resort on that page
(09:26:55 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: what were you expecting from alex?
(09:26:55 PM) inode0: what is the first resort to say a media request?
(09:27:00 PM) inode0: media
(09:27:11 PM) herlo: I'll be happy to try to devise this sort of page,
but I just want some input
(09:27:17 PM) herlo: inode0: right now, I don't know actually
(09:27:22 PM) herlo: and that's the problem
(09:27:43 PM) DemonJester: shouldnt it be the regionals contacting
alex for media though?
(09:27:44 PM) herlo: it could be, Fill out this form, and we'll get
back to you in 3-9 years, but I've never seen such a form
(09:28:03 PM) herlo: DemonJester: probably, but that's only one example
(09:28:32 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: it used to be petition FAMSCO at least a
month in advance
(09:28:38 PM) DemonJester: ok I misunderstood what was being said then sorry.
(09:28:49 PM) herlo: I'm thinking wider range than just t-shirts and
media.  inode0 is trying to nail it too a specific function
(09:28:50 PM) ke4qqq: DemonJester: that's how it is now
(09:29:02 PM) ke4qqq: but it won't be in a couple of months
(09:29:29 PM) DemonJester: why not, wont the media be handled directly
by the regionals at that point?
(09:29:47 PM) ke4qqq: it will be, but alex won't be in the picture
(09:29:56 PM) ke4qqq: since we (hopefully) are handling media
(09:30:15 PM) herlo: right, so what I am asying is that we are going
to be dictating a bit of policy in the near future
(09:30:18 PM) DemonJester: +1
(09:30:42 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh good point
(09:30:44 PM) herlo: and we need to come up with a simple process for
handling such requests.  Many of them are already being handled
(09:30:49 PM) ***inode0 would expect ambassador kits to alleviate some
of this in the future as well
(09:30:55 PM) herlo: true
(09:30:57 PM) ke4qqq: true
(09:31:04 PM) herlo: thing is, we need to say that somewhere
(09:31:13 PM) ke4qqq: so - FAMSCO used to have a probationary period
before you could get resources will we?
(09:31:19 PM) ke4qqq: are you wanting that input now?
(09:31:22 PM) herlo: because right now, people ask on the mailing list
and we have to answer with a best guess.
(09:31:36 PM) herlo: no, I'm wanting to start the discussion right now
(09:31:43 PM) herlo: so we can be ready in a few months time
(09:31:55 PM) herlo: that is all
(09:32:04 PM) ke4qqq: k
(09:32:05 PM) inode0: you had a second issue?
(09:32:10 PM) herlo: I will start building tools for us to use
(09:32:19 PM) herlo: on the wiki to begin, then elsewhere possibly
(09:32:23 PM) herlo: later on
(09:32:53 PM) inode0: herlo: ?
(09:32:55 PM) herlo: the other one, I think we kind of addressed already but
(09:33:16 PM) ***ke4qqq has one too
(09:33:28 PM) herlo: I just wanted to point out quickly that we now
have more columns on the FedoraEvents page for Q3
(09:33:54 PM) herlo: we will want to put in a policy for requesting
the EventBox and blog about that and the need for reports on the
FedoraEvents Page too
(09:33:54 PM) inode0: Event Box column!
(09:33:58 PM) herlo: that is all
(09:34:02 PM) ke4qqq: !
(09:34:05 PM) herlo: yep
(09:34:09 PM) inode0: ke4qqq:
(09:34:45 PM) herlo: inode0: click the link at the top of the column
and it will be explained to you
(09:34:48 PM) ke4qqq: so there's been talk of splitting the US up
because we have so many people and divide that responsibility/burden a
bit.....do we want to talk more about that or just start the process
(09:35:46 PM) herlo: I think we should talk next week specifically about that
(09:35:57 PM) ke4qqq: ok - well I have now seeded that conversation
(09:36:09 PM) herlo: add it to the task list plz :)
(09:36:11 PM) ke4qqq: so folks - be thinking about that, particularly
if you are in the east
(09:36:16 PM) inode0: this is related to pcalarco's request?
(09:36:26 PM) herlo: pcalarco had a request?
(09:36:31 PM) ke4qqq: hmmmm I don't think so - what is pcalarcos request
(09:36:31 PM) ***herlo wants to know what it was
(09:37:07 PM) inode0: he requested that his state organize its own structure
(09:37:36 PM) inode0: that maybe didn't come out quite right
(09:37:42 PM) ***ke4qqq is all for it - tell him to organize away -
most states don't have enough structure or people for that.
(09:37:53 PM) inode0: have a state ambassador leader
(09:38:04 PM) ***inode0 is all for it too
(09:38:34 PM) inode0: does that fit into what you are talking about,
or do you want northeast and southeast or something?
(09:38:41 PM) herlo: oh, well yeah, that's definitely something we should do
(09:38:56 PM) herlo: but that's a much *longer* term solution
(09:39:12 PM) herlo: state/city ambassadors would be great
(09:39:12 PM) ***ke4qqq isn't opposed to starting it now - IF the
people are present.
(09:39:25 PM) herlo: sure, but what I'm driving at is that it has to
grow over time
(09:39:33 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't want to be SC state ambassador - it's
pointless to direct myself.
(09:39:38 PM) herlo: can't happen in every state/major city right away
(09:39:44 PM) herlo: lol
(09:39:57 PM) DemonJester: why not ;-)
(09:40:09 PM) herlo: DemonJester: is that directed at me or ke4qqq ??
(09:40:14 PM) inode0: ke4qqq: can you amplify a tiny bit on what you
are talking about?
(09:40:27 PM) DemonJester: you herlo
(09:40:52 PM) ke4qqq: so iirc, in pcalarco's case there are 5 or so
ambassadors who are extremely <word that shall not be mentioned>
(09:41:14 PM) ke4qqq: it makes sense to coordinate them for greater
effectiveness
(09:41:26 PM) herlo: DemonJester: because not every city/state has an
ambassador existing/willing/able to make that happen today.  That is
one of our goals, however.
(09:41:32 PM) ke4qqq: and reduce load on upstream
(09:41:38 PM) ke4qqq: regional ambassador
(09:41:47 PM) ke4qqq: ie, instead of dealing with 5 he only deals with 1
(09:41:57 PM) inode0: right
(09:42:40 PM) herlo: +1
(09:43:21 PM) ke4qqq: so what I'd propose is that we set a minimum
number of ambassadors per state  before we want a state to org.
(09:43:28 PM) ke4qqq: to get ahead of that issue
(09:43:34 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: what about major cities?
(09:43:42 PM) herlo: though I agree
(09:43:57 PM) ke4qqq: same thing there perhaps as a subset of states
(09:44:15 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't think that's a problem ATM except in
RTP and Beantown
(09:44:17 PM) herlo: the way I kind of see it is that a major city is
just like a state
(09:44:29 PM) ke4qqq: so do we want to avoid 'state'
(09:44:33 PM) ***inode0 honestly would be happy if the first
ambassador from a state took that initiative
(09:44:35 PM) herlo: no
(09:44:51 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: no - they may not all want it
(09:45:00 PM) inode0: no one is forcing them
(09:45:14 PM) ke4qqq: sorry - I see 'be happy' now
(09:45:18 PM) herlo: What I mean is, if the state has 5 and the major
city within that same state also has 5, then both should /could exist
together
(09:45:55 PM) herlo: my thinking is that some folks in the city might
not be able / willing to travel to the sticks and vice versa
(09:45:58 PM) ke4qqq: are the two 5's unique?
(09:46:28 PM) herlo: uh, the number isn't really important, but the
people are probably different folks, yes
(09:46:44 PM) ke4qqq: that's what I mean
(09:46:58 PM) ke4qqq: two sets of 5
(09:47:25 PM) herlo: the point I make is that city events and state
events can be separate, though not a requirement.  Just makes it
easier to know who to contact
(09:48:03 PM) inode0: I'd like to defer worrying about 5 ambassadors
in a city for later.
(09:48:33 PM) herlo: I don't think it matters which happens first
(09:48:55 PM) inode0: And I'd like to understand in general what
ke4qqq is thinking in the bigger picture, since he brought this up
without the context of Indiana
(09:49:10 PM) ke4qqq: wow
(09:49:12 PM) herlo: just that it might not be a state that's
represented if all the ambassadors are unwilling/unable to get to
events outsides the city which they live
(09:49:52 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: ?
(09:49:57 PM) ***ke4qqq suggests that herlo and inode0 go read the
budget email from Max
(09:50:28 PM) ke4qqq: we have three weeks to burn that
(09:50:40 PM) ***herlo thinks of things to buy
(09:52:07 PM) inode0: well, ke4qqq, anything further on organization?
(09:52:12 PM) ke4qqq: none
(09:52:15 PM) ke4qqq: one other task for herlp
(09:52:18 PM) ke4qqq: herlo
(09:52:24 PM) herlo: that is?
(09:52:33 PM) ke4qqq: can you/did you find out if net 30 was possible
with media?
(09:52:41 PM) ke4qqq: or is it due up front?
(09:53:00 PM) herlo: oh, I asked
(09:53:10 PM) herlo: but I don't recall the answer, I'll ask again tomorrow
(09:53:32 PM) ke4qqq: ok - lets plan on conf call re media tomorrow -
you are the time constrained one - so feel free to suggest
(09:54:09 PM) ***ke4qqq is ready to shut up now
(09:54:14 PM) inode0: ok, let's wrap it for this week shall we?
(09:54:18 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: after 6pm PTD
(09:54:32 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: k
(09:54:52 PM) ***herlo has to run, time with the kid
(09:55:35 PM) ***inode0 thinking everyone else has fallen asleep ...
(09:55:38 PM) herlo: ke4qqq: though I wolud prefer after 8pm PDT, that
still work for you?
(09:55:54 PM) ke4qqq: herlo: I am not worried about me - I am worried about Max
(09:55:56 PM) ***herlo leaves and will read up later
(09:56:04 PM) ke4qqq: read your email.
(09:56:14 PM) herlo: oh, good point
(09:56:19 PM) herlo: k
(09:57:01 PM) inode0: EOF
(09:57:22 PM) inode0: thank you everyone for the shortest meeting ever :)
(09:57:23 PM) herlo: thanks inode0
(09:57:27 PM) DemonJester: lol
(09:57:34 PM) ke4qqq: thanks inode0 !


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