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Re: Tango, foxtrot, charlie

Andreas Nilsson wrote:
Hi, I just subscribed to this list!
I read the archives and saw there was some discussion on icons.
As I've been involved in Tango since it was announced and some time ago I put together a couple of icons using similar colors as Bluecurve, mostly as a test, but Steven Garrity liked them, so I did a whole set. These are only in scalable size yet, but I can fix the 22x22 and 16x16 sizes pretty quick. If you have any questions regarding the tango-project, please feel free to bug me on this list. It would be really cool if Garretts LeSages initial goal for Bluecurve could be achieved.

Here is the icons: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/foxtrot.tar.gz
and here is a little screenshot: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/blog/images/foxtrot.png

For everyone's benefit, we had a discussion about this on irc, attached.

andreasn hello
duffy hey
duffy bah
andreasn I did a tangoised bluecurve some time ago, interested?
andreasn http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/foxtrot.tar.gz
andreasn only in the scalable size though, but I could fix the small sizes aswell
andreasn perhaps I should post it to fedora-art-list
duffy andreasn: sure, yeh send it to fedora-art-list
andreasn ok, will do
andreasn I just did it as a test more or less a couple of months ago
duffy andreasn: is it tangoized graphically or following the icon specifications?
* You are now known as mizmo__
andreasn graphically, so it blends in fine with all the apps using that style
mizmo__ andreasn: we've definitely reached agreement on wanting it tangoized to the psecifications but there is a bit of contention about tangozing it graphically
mizmo__ we like having our own look
andreasn mizmo__: I see
mizmo__ andreasn: it cant hurt to send it out and see what discussion ensures
andreasn well, it would be nice if you could have your own look and still blend in nice with all the app icons
andreasn otherwise it will just be a mishmash of different styles
andreasn http://ramnet.se/~nisse/blog/images/foxtrot.png
mizmo__ hmmmm
mizmo__ i mean
mizmo__ what happens if someone doesnt like that aesthetic though
andreasn you can change the theme?
andreasn or how do you mean?
mizmo__ andreasn: if fedora wants its own look in terms of core icons, if we dont like the aesthetic of the tangoized apps - 
mizmo__ i just dont like that situation
mizmo__ we can make our own icons for those
andreasn you mean icons as branding?
mizmo__ i gotta go
mizmo__ we can discuss on list
mizmo__ sorry :(
andreasn I prefer to use icons as interface elements
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mizmo__ i dont mean icons as branding
mizmo__ its just the aesthetics of the icons have an affect on how people view the OS as a whole
mizmo__ and we as a distro decide we dont like the tango aesthetic, why should we be locked in
mizmo__ i think the specifications are great
mizmo__ i have my reservations about the aesthetic
andreasn mizmo__: did you have a look at the foxtrot-icons?
andreasn what do you think of those?
andreasn no, I'm not asking anyone to be locked in
mizmo__ andreasn: they don't look... bluecurve to me
andreasn crap :(
andreasn I failed
mizmo__ i wouldnt see it as failure :) sometimes being unsuccessful helps you figure out a better path
mizmo__ this is all my personal opinion too
mizmo__ but i do know that some people have strong opinions about fedora having its own long
andreasn yeah, well, I just wanted to check if you were interested in the goals of tango
andreasn as they are the same goals as garrett wanted to achieve with bluecurve
andreasn well, anyway, I sent the mail to the fedora-art-list now
andreasn need to get back to drawing
mizmo__ what is the goal of tango though?
mizmo__ like i said
mizmo__ the icon specification is great
mizmo__ but if the goal is to impose an aesthetic on everyone, i'm not sure i agree with that
mizmo__ and i thought that wax the point of the specification
mizmo__ that you could choose the icons you wanted to use
mizmo__ and still fit the framework
andreasn yeah, well, theming would still exist
mizmo__ so im not sure where we disagree then?
andreasn :)
andreasn well, it's mostly a attemt to have app-developers have a style for their interfaces
andreasn that will fit togerher with the rest of the desktop
andreasn so there wont be a mishmash of styles, as you can't theme every icon in every app
mizmo__ that seems like it'd limit the aesthetic approach you could take in your icons then
mizmo__ there is more to 'interface style' than icons...
andreasn hm, yes, to some degree it would limit you
andreasn just as interface guidelines do
mizmo__ so you can theme but only within a little box
andreasn well, you can still make a theme that looks like whatever if you follow the naming-spec
andreasn just like normal gnome and kde-icon themes today
mizmo__ but if there are app icons you can't theme....
mizmo__ it seems you are flip flopping on this point? yes you can theme the icons, but no you cant because you cant theme all app icons
andreasn heh, sorry for that
* andreasn is a bit flipflopish
mizmo__ andreasn: well you know, im just trying to make heads/tails of what even 'tangoize' means
* You've invited dfong to #fedora-art (kornbluth.freenode.net)
* dfong (n=admin nat-pool-bos redhat com) has joined #fedora-art
andreasn well, if you a icon for your app, you should make that in tango-style that you put in hicolor, but you can also have a theme where you put a thenameofmyapp in /apps and override it
mizmo__ why do all new apps have to use tango style though?
andreasn so that they will work on the other distros aswell
andreasn and blend in ok on windows and osx
andreasn so, do you think it's a cracky idea?
dfong will it really blend?
mizmo__ is every single distro using tango?
* warren (n=warren redhat/wombat/warren) has joined #fedora-art
warren *poof*
andreasn dfong: I've only tried it side by side with some osx apps, and it looked quite nice
andreasn blended very well with the icons in pages
andreasn whups, need to run
warren andreasn, discuss on fedora-art-list please so everyone can participate
andreasn warren: sure
mizmo__ warren: ill email this log so people can get a background

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